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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi.

I don't have training but I am afraid I'll have to at least develop the basic structure of a modelling of a professional in their work environment dealing with specific tasks.

Anybody can point me to a good step by step guide to build good models?

Or even has experience themselves?

That would be great!


The article I intend to use is this: Symbolic Modelling: an overview

And possibly this: http://www.ppimk.com/NLP/Techniques/Modelling.html

http://www.howtomasternlp.com/nlp-articles/the-6-master-steps-of-nlp-modeling

But I'd like a more practical guide/walkthrough
 

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A chance to make the post that will get me to 15, so I can actually private message people! (Part of why I'd not replied to you yet).

While I don't have personal experience, I know that NLP is thrown around as a term all the time in hypnosis communities! They would be a prime spot to go for more information, if you haven't checked them out. I am sure there are message boards somewhere where someone might be able to talk to you about it. If you can't find any, let me know, and I'll try to find a couple!
 

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Hi.

I don't have training but I am afraid I'll have to at least develop the basic structure of a modelling of a professional in their work environment dealing with specific tasks.
I am a certified hypnotherapist, and have some knowledge of and experience with NLP.

However...I am not entirely clear about what you are looking to accomplish. Can you provide a little more detail, specifically about "modeling of a professional in their work environment?"
 
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Discussion Starter #4
@Snakecharmer

I want to model a successful consultant when performing simple tasks. Like: write a proposal. How do they accomplish that in so little time and produce such great results FOR EXAMPLE. Also motivational and inner workings.

Obviously all of them have the training and practice but some are much better.

I'm downloading the Grinder modelling workshop and will go through it when I get a chance.

Was hoping for some easy, step by step walkthrough on how to model (like, really simple and not very precise)

Cause Grinder puts me to sleep and Bandler just keeps rambling on and on.
 

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Hmmm... I think in hypnosis, the NLP people are talking more about their use of word choice, in order to evoke certain states and feelings, and in order to increase trust and rapport with people without all the time it usually takes... I think I have heard before that the NLP people also use some special methods to rapidly absorb the key traits of professionals that make them successful. I guess when I look at a few examples of a memo, I can usually figure out what is going on and how to do it very easily. It just takes a few examples and I am like "Oh, perfect! I get it!" Is that what you are aiming to do? You want to do your job well, and so you want to learn the ways you can absorb the talent from other peoples' good example?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
As evident from my original post this is the 1st time I'll attempt it.

As I understand the idea is to copy-paste the way somebody does something in a very successful way. Maybe improve a little bit.

Physical attributes seem easy but the mental/the map seems difficult.

Just got the Grinder workshop and the audio is not that great. If anybody has any easy to follow ABC for mapping the mental process that would be great!
 

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I feel a little bad for misleading you on the NLP - hypnosis connection! I didn't understand what you were trying to do, but I figured a hypotist might! But if I run into resources I will certainly send them your way! Searching now (it is an interesting idea - I just never chased that idea like I have others) so we'll see if I come up with anything before my attention span snaps away! : )
 

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Modeling is not an NLP process per say. Explaining what NLP actually is will take a lot of time. How do people write proposals so quickly? Experience. You can't really model experience. How to get instantly better at things by watching people? That is a lot harder than it seems. Nothing beats experience. Also realize that the experienced ones might have streamlined their own processes which make picking it apart almost impossible. When you skip 30-40 steps, the results might not explain the means. Also realize that in your example of writing proposals, they probably have a form letter and just fill in the blanks which make writing a proposal a 10 minute job. Any way, look at method actors for how they get into character. If you "act" like some one long enough, you'll become that person.

Also, you can't model motivation. Motivation is too individualized. He might be doing it to support a family, and if you don't have one, then you're out of luck. Impossible. Modeling the affects of motivation is a bit different, but still almost impossible. That is why great actors are great and others aren't.

Modeling inner workings is also really hard because....they are INNER. You can model the external process easily. But if you really want to model inner workings, talk to the guy you want to model about his thought process, about his methods, etc. If you are too shy for that, then creepily observe him doing his work.

There is no set way to do it.
 

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If anybody has any easy to follow ABC for mapping the mental process that would be great!
I know, wouldn't it? Then we could all be superstars without any work at all!

AHA! That is why there are no ExxJs here. This forum is completely useless.
So are you saying you're better than us and are realizing it? Or what?

You know, that is the fastest way I've ever seen to get people to stop helping you. It is one thing to ask for assistance, it is another thing to expect people to do your work for you, and call them useless when they don't. It would take a professional person who does NLP modelling (or what have you) to find the kind of help you are asking for, and any professional is probably going to know enough about the process to know that it is never going to be just an easy "how to", ABC kind of thing.

I don't know about NLP much but I know I heard it among hypnosis communities so I tried to point you to professional who could help you, and then it was revealed you were talking about something different than I realized. I tried to look for a couple of resources but all I found were guides (like NLP for dummies) on a simple Google search that already sounded good enough to me that I figured you'd read them and considered them unhelpful.

I don't know if you were joking, if you were just irate, but a lot of people will take a lot of offense to being called useless, including people who happen to like this forum and think it is very useful. And if you're smiling when you're writing it... well that doesn't exactly show through words typed on a screen.

Anyhow - good luck, and good day.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
@TheHumanAxiom

There must be at least a gazillion logical calculations connecting what I said and what you say I said and there are a lot of mistakes in them, trust me.



There is no set way to do it.
Are you saying it is impossible to copy what somebody is doing and use the parts that work for somebody else?
Makes no sense, please explain why you think so.
 

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Are you saying it is impossible to copy what somebody is doing and use the parts that work for somebody else?
Makes no sense, please explain why you think so.
I actually say the exact opposite. I said that the two specific parts you mentioned emulating (motivation and inner processes) are nearly impossible. I explained why for each. It is moderately easy to take what people do that works in certain situations and apply it to those same situations with a bit of practice.

That being said, the part you quoted was me saying there is no "ABC" list to achieve those goals. It is highly dependent on the task and person you wish to model. I also gave possible explanations for the specific task you mentioned.

Do a root cause analysis. Ask "Why" something like 5 times to each question and you'll get something close enough to the root cause. Model that specific answer and you'll be well on your way.
 

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@TheHumanAxiom

There must be at least a gazillion logical calculations connecting what I said and what you say I said and there are a lot of mistakes in them, trust me.
To be perfectly honest, I don't see the mistakes. I like to know where I've gone wrong, it makes me a better person. I am just sharing how I interpreted your "this forum is useless" - I take forum to mean all of these boards. Did you mean this thread is useless? In that case, I certainly would rescind my points because I would no longer take offense.

The reason I did take offense is because I am the one who tried to help you and it looked like I ended up leading you astray or making you feel like not asking for help anymore. I didn't want to do that in the least! I certainly am flawed in many ways - one of which includes the fact that I personalize things WAY too easily.

So please, I do respect you - will you return the respect by explaining my error? When I say "I don't know if you were X or Y" it might seem dismissive like I don't care, but that is my way of saying "If I misunderstood you, please elaborate and clarify" if that wasn't clear to begin with.

And if you don't have the time (I know some people don't like to chatter and explain as much as I do!) then please at least accept my apologies if you took offense. I got a bit hostile, but I also am sensitive like that underneath my hard shell of intellectualism and (what might look like) smarminess. : ) (Turns out smarmy means you actually ARE insincere! Which I'm not. I don't like being hurt and thus I don't like to hurt others. I'm just practicing being assertive I guess? *shrugs* It's a work in progress.)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
@TheHumanAxiom

You assumed there was some motivations that wasn't there.

I shared an observation because it might be useful to you when you need help with something like I do right now.

As you can see this thread has not produced what I ask. Thus the forum is useless and is important to know for future reference.

I don't really understand why you thought I thought I was better than you and stuff - I do not.It's perfectly obvious I am not otherwise I wouldn't be asking for help in the first place.


@bigtex1989

Thanks. Do you have that in writing somewhere?

I am listening to an old Grinder workshop on modelling I found online.
 

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@Istbkleta

I don't know anymore what was going on in my head - I always felt my parents were disrespectful to each other and to me in subtle and passive-aggressive ways, so I react strongly sometimes to perceived insults/anger when there wasn't any (or when it wasn't aimed at me). Especially over text online - it is much harder to read. But since you meant no insult, then I certainly take no offense. I hope that you can forgive that I got defensive or tried to assume your motivations. It's a bad habit (usually a sign I have been stressed or not sleeping enough), but I will continue to try and avoid it!
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
@<span class="highlight"><i><a href="http://personalitycafe.com/member.php?u=21660" target="_blank">Istbkleta</a></i></span>

I don't know anymore what was going on in my head - I always felt my parents were disrespectful to each other and to me in subtle and passive-aggressive ways, so I react strongly sometimes to perceived insults/anger when there wasn't any (or when it wasn't aimed at me). Especially over text online - it is much harder to read. But since you meant no insult, then I certainly take no offense. I hope that you can forgive that I got defensive or tried to assume your motivations. It's a bad habit (usually a sign I have been stressed or not sleeping enough), but I will continue to try and avoid it!
No problem. Inferior Fe, I can relate.

Sometimes ppl offend on purpose but I don't think it's worth it online.

Take care.

Actually, the MBTI dichotomies are kind of considered as meta programs. Weird - meta programs should be meaningful and transferable but transferring J-ness should be impossible.

Well, whatever. It seems still kind of new. I am still digging in.



ANYBODY HAS Modeling With NLP IN PDF? :)

http://www.amazon.com/Modeling-NLP-Robert-Dilts/dp/0916990419


Also this is fun:

 
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