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Where does the idea 6's are afraid to be alone come from? I'm thinking maybe its more of an extrovert vs introvert idea. Does it apply to introvert 6's too, and if so how does it manifest? Or what about 6's with a 1 or some other independant number in their tritype?
 

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I think it has to do with safety. For instance, if you are talking to a few people others will leave you alone. When you are standing there by yourself you make the perfect target. It isn't so much that we care for the social aspect, it is just that we want to cover our flanks for possible attacks, so to speak.
 

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I don't know why that would be associated with 6. I'd think it would be more common with 7s (needing stimulation) or 2s (being very oriented toward others).

Anyhow, it's probably not intended literally, but more an allusion to "support". No one wants to go through life alone, and type 6 in particular deals with this issue. It doesn't have to be "people"--it could take another form (bank account, job, religious belief, whatever, even the conviction that all that stuff is untrustworthy). The recognition that being without backup makes a person vulnerable. But there are plenty of 6s who are interpersonal loners, even when cognitively extraverted.
 

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I've never heard of that before.

I think I am a 6 (?), and I couldn't be more opposite of that . . . I have spent the majority of my life alone and actually prefer it that way . . .

I think it has to do with safety. For instance, if you are talking to a few people others will leave you alone. When you are standing there by yourself you make the perfect target. It isn't so much that we care for the social aspect, it is just that we want to cover our flanks for possible attacks, so to speak.
So you identify with it, then?

I don't know why that would be associated with 6. I'd think it would be more common with 7s (needing stimulation) or 2s (being very oriented toward others).

Anyhow, it's probably not intended literally, but more an allusion to "support". No one wants to go through life alone, and type 6 in particular deals with this issue. It doesn't have to be "people"--it could take another form (bank account, job, religious belief, whatever, even the conviction that all that stuff is untrustworthy). The recognition that being without backup makes a person vulnerable. But there are plenty of 6s who are interpersonal loners, even when cognitively extraverted.
I see what OP is getting at now. I agree with you--I've read that about type 6, too.

Does type 6 actively seek out help when it needs it, or does it simply like the peace of mind knowing that help exists?


I will talk about myself some, and anyone is more than free to chime in and let me know their enneathoughts about it:
 
In high school and college (still), I have needed help from teachers tons and tons of times. But I almost never asked for help. Like ever.

In college I need help all. the. time. and never ever ask for it.

It's 100% pride. I don't want to go tell a teacher that I'm struggling. That's soul-crushing. I want to be seen as the most competent person in the room (while also being seen as modest and sweet. And innocent and naïve. Like an accidental prodigy. I very much want others to think that things come naturally easy to me and that I don't work hard at all. It's mostly true. But sometimes it's not at all).

Having to let others know that I've made a mistake or that I need others' help to get by is devastating for me. :laughing:

I know that sounds very type 3. And probably because it is. I do identify with 3. But I don't identify as 3 dom. Which is why I think I might be 6 instead.

Any ideas?
 

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I've never heard of that before.

...

I see what OP is getting at now. I agree with you--I've read that about type 6, too.
Glad you get it now...It raised a question mark over my head, too at first.

However, the Fauvres list this regarding type 6...
The core fears are of fear itself, danger, being alone, cowardice, submitting, deviance, uncertainty, being targeted, chaos
I assumed it was a reference to that, and that this blurb is a reference to support.

I will talk about myself some, and anyone is more than free to chime in and let me know their enneathoughts about it:
 
In high school and college (still), I have needed help from teachers tons and tons of times. But I almost never asked for help. Like ever.

In college I need help all. the. time. and never ever ask for it.

It's 100% pride. I don't want to go tell a teacher that I'm struggling. That's soul-crushing. I want to be seen as the most competent person in the room (while also being seen as modest and sweet. And innocent and naïve. Like an accidental prodigy. I very much want others to think that things come naturally easy to me and that I don't work hard at all. It's mostly true. But sometimes it's not at all).

Having to let others know that I've made a mistake or that I need others' help to get by is devastating for me. :laughing:

I know that sounds very type 3. And probably because it is. I do identify with 3. But I don't identify as 3 dom. Which is why I think I might be 6 instead.

Any ideas?
What you've listed here sounds either very rejection-triad-oriented (eschewing the need for help and being physically unable to ask for it) as well as 7like. Have ya considered 7? They often have competency issues and wish to be seen as the gifted people the feel they are (major influence with me, taking liberties here).

Anyway, just a thought. I see you going down the "I must be a 6 cause what else??" path I was once on myself. I am sorry to say that 7 is often misunderstood. And that's my idea.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I get a lot of that too. I don't manifest the fear of being alone so much either. I can also identify with having trouble asking for advice, but recently I've gotten out of that cause my issues were so tough on me I just had to. Lately I'm acting very 6-ish seeking out support and guidance like crazy. I also identify with the pride and basing my feelings of satisfaction/calmness off of how others perceive me. My tritype #s are probably 612 or 613 in some order. Anyways, just wanted to say that. Sorry, but I don't have much of an answer:

Does type 6 actively seek out help when it needs it, or does it simply like the peace of mind knowing that help exists?


I will talk about myself some, and anyone is more than free to chime in and let me know their enneathoughts about it:

In high school and college (still), I have needed help from teachers tons and tons of times. But I almost never asked for help. Like ever.

In college I need help all. the. time. and never ever ask for it.

It's 100% pride. I don't want to go tell a teacher that I'm struggling. That's soul-crushing. I want to be seen as the most competent person in the room (while also being seen as modest and sweet. And innocent and naïve. Like an accidental expert or prodigy).

Having to let others know that I've made a mistake or that I need others' help to get by is devastating for me.

I know that sounds very type 3. And probably because it is. I do identify with 3. But I don't identify as 3 dom. Which is why I think I might be 6 instead.

Any ideas?/QUOTE]

Someone feel free to answer that pls. Don't mean to distract from your post. Sorry:happy:
 
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So you identify with it, then?
In public places, yes. In private, no since I prefer being alone, given the chance.
If I'm are surrounded by people I prefer having someone with me so the chances of me getting targetted are lower.
 
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Where does the idea 6's are afraid to be alone come from? I'm thinking maybe its more of an extrovert vs introvert idea. Does it apply to introvert 6's too, and if so how does it manifest? Or what about 6's with a 1 or some other independant number in their tritype?

I think it's more about being afraid to be defenseless, unprepared, and not having anyone to count on when the next crisis hits.
 

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What you've listed here sounds either very rejection-triad-oriented (eschewing the need for help and being physically unable to ask for it) as well as 7like.
Ohh wait. Slow down. :)

I can ask for help, and naturally I have had to do it in the past, but it is something I really loathe and hate doing.

(I assume by "physically unable" you simply meant "strongly hate," but it's impossible to know that without tone of voice or facial expressions or gestures)

Have ya considered 7? They often have competency issues and wish to be seen as the gifted people the feel they are (major influence with me, taking liberties here).
Lol ouch I feel so insulted :laughing:

I do know 7s. You're right that they definitely do struggle to be seen as competent. This is never something I've struggled with, personally. (I struggle very hard to view my 7 sister as competent. I think she secretly loathes that. Since she's an ENFP (tertiary Te). And older than I. So she has that ENFP desire to be seen as competent, as well as the older sibling desire to be the more competent of the two. As well as being a type 7 (does there even exist a non-type-7 ENFP?))

But I do identify with 7 to some extent. When I drink caffeine, I can be quite 7. In fact, I have written many posts on this website while on caffeine, and it elicited the response from many that I'm probably a type 7 to some extent.

And I agree--I probably am to some extent.

Dominant 7, though? Absolutely not !!

I almost feel like I'm a type 7 when I'm at my happiest. And naturally it wouldn't be my "happiest" if I were like it all the time. Most of the time I feel very much like a 5 or 3.

Anyway, just a thought. I see you going down the "I must be a 6 cause what else??" path I was once on myself. I am sorry to say that 7 is often misunderstood. And that's my idea.
Sort of. I identify almost completely with type 5. I thought I was a type 5 dom for a long time.

And then I filled out some questionnaires and did a lot of free writing about myself, and I got a really unanimous response of "there's no way you're a 5."

I don't think anyone ever told me I was a 6. I simply picked it because, as you said, "what the fuck else would I be" :))
 
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Hmm... It's not what I understood.

For me, the fear of being "alone", or at least "without support or guidance" is not like you said.
Imo 6 are overly self-doubting and doubting in general. Because we had a belief that have been crushed, and it has hurt us a lot.

With this scar, I guess that a 6 would never again be sure of something, and will always seek an "objective" or atleast a safe way. We don't really seek help. We are no more in touch with the perception of reality, and that's why we are doubting and affraid.

Fear of being alone would be Fear of relying only on our perception of reality.
That's why it's so good, being part of a group, or an objective structure. There are no risks of being wrong, or weak. Human are weak when alone, but strong in groups.

But what if people are wrong? What if I have a greater ideal, or values? They will be the things to follow. If people cannot see this vision, you will be alone, and it will not be a problem because you'll be able to follow this Holy leader without being in a group.

Anyway, as I'm not very good in enneagram, I'll wait to read more on this.
 

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Ohh wait. Slow down. :)

I can ask for help, and naturally I have had to do it in the past, but it is something I really loathe and hate doing.

(I assume by "physically unable" you simply meant "strongly hate," but it's impossible to know that without tone of voice or facial expressions or gestures)
Oh yeah. Sorry. I do mean that. Well, I have that problem...and it's like it just never occurs to me. And when it does, it's just really hard to broach the subject...tooo...awkward...

It might be different for you, though, I can only speak through my own filter.


Lol ouch I feel so insulted :laughing:
...
Dominant 7, though? Absolutely not !!
OK, what makes you say those things?

Sort of. I identify almost completely with type 5. I thought I was a type 5 dom for a long time.

And then I filled out some questionnaires and did a lot of free writing about myself, and I got a really unanimous response of "there's no way you're a 5."

I don't think anyone ever told me I was a 6. I simply picked it because, as you said, "what the fuck else would I be" :))
Hmmm...Interesting. If you link me over, I can take a look.
 

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For me, the fear of being "alone", or at least "without support or guidance" is not like you said.
Imo 6 are overly self-doubting and doubting in general. Because we had a belief that have been crushed, and it has hurt us a lot.
Can you talk about how this manifests? What is it that 6s doubt?

With this scar, I guess that a 6 would never again be sure of something, and will always seek an "objective" or atleast a safe way. We don't really seek help. We are no more in touch with the perception of reality, and that's why we are doubting and affraid.
How is this different from Ne inferior?

edit:
@Kipposhi
http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-enneagram-type/493434-am-i-5w6-i-always-thought-i.html

^there are lots of posts from me there, not just the OP. Re-reading the OP, I would actually tweak some of my answers slightly if I were writing it right now.

It's weird how your mood affects your opinions :O! Well maybe for Fi doms it doesn't. . .

(^my brain was on caffeine when I wrote #9 (well, the whole OP actually))
 
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Can you talk about how this manifests? What is it that 6s doubt?
6s doubts their perception of reality. This is this conscience of being a human being with limited perception and thinking process.
For example : Reading a random post or description on PerC => No way we can believe it. If you browse PerC you can see multiple perspectives and interpretations about what is a certain type, or function or stuff. How to know which definition or description is true? If you start believing one, you'll quickly see that it was a subjective and doesn't apply everytime.

So what to do? As a 6 I think that my perception of reality isn't good enough to think by myself. So I seek a reliable structure => wikisocion.net for me. In this structure I can be sure of the information I get, and I know that it is objective.
Well, that's how I get it. I prefer being alone reading wikisocion than asking help on PerC.

I guess a 6 would have felt betrayed, or didn't understood what happened to him. This wound would manifest as doubts. Why is the 6 doubting? Because he's seeking the truth. Doubting something is the way to know the validity of this data/person. The fear of being wrong and hurt again is the reason of those doubts. The 6 don't want to be surprised or backstabbed again, so it will test again and again this thing.

It's true that it is hard to understand the origin of those struggles.

How is this different from Ne inferior?
It is very different.

For an Si-dominant, the avoidance of discomfort is his primary goal and motivation. That's why they are perceiving the environment with their subjective physical states as the first criteria. That's how they can create archetypes with those sensory data, and will be able to know subjectively if this archetype is good or not. Next, they will be focused on recreating those previous positive and comfortable archetypes that they have perceived. The avoidance of discomfort being the most important thing, opening possibilities and exploring them (Ne), isn't the best option. Recreating previous comfortable states will be their strength.

The 6, will just avoid "being without support or guidance". Not necessarily comfortable states. Not necessarily sensory experiences. The 6 just don't trust himself, and others. He will only trust this reliable structure he choosed.
 

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6s doubts their perception of reality. This is this conscience of being a human being with limited perception and thinking process.
For example : Reading a random post or description on PerC => No way we can believe it. If you browse PerC you can see multiple perspectives and interpretations about what is a certain type, or function or stuff. How to know which definition or description is true? If you start believing one, you'll quickly see that it was a subjective and doesn't apply everytime.

So what to do? As a 6 I think that my perception of reality isn't good enough to think by myself. So I seek a reliable structure => wikisocion.net for me. In this structure I can be sure of the information I get, and I know that it is objective.
Well, that's how I get it. I prefer being alone reading wikisocion than asking help on PerC.

I guess a 6 would have felt betrayed, or didn't understood what happened to him. This wound would manifest as doubts. Why is the 6 doubting? Because he's seeking the truth. Doubting something is the way to know the validity of this data/person. The fear of being wrong and hurt again is the reason of those doubts. The 6 don't want to be surprised or backstabbed again, so it will test again and again this thing.

It's true that it is hard to understand the origin of those struggles.



It is very different.

For an Si-dominant, the avoidance of discomfort is his primary goal and motivation. That's why they are perceiving the environment with their subjective physical states as the first criteria. That's how they can create archetypes with those sensory data, and will be able to know subjectively if this archetype is good or not. Next, they will be focused on recreating those previous positive and comfortable archetypes that they have perceived. The avoidance of discomfort being the most important thing, opening possibilities and exploring them (Ne), isn't the best option. Recreating previous comfortable states will be their strength.

The 6, will just avoid "being without support or guidance". Not necessarily comfortable states. Not necessarily sensory experiences. The 6 just don't trust himself, and others. He will only trust this reliable structure he choosed.
This is a very good answer, thank you. It makes me think I'm a 6.

Do you happen to know how 6 and 5 are different?

And how to tell them apart?
 
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6s doubts their perception of reality. This is this conscience of being a human being with limited perception and thinking process.
For example : Reading a random post or description on PerC => No way we can believe it. If you browse PerC you can see multiple perspectives and interpretations about what is a certain type, or function or stuff. How to know which definition or description is true? If you start believing one, you'll quickly see that it was a subjective and doesn't apply everytime.

So what to do? As a 6 I think that my perception of reality isn't good enough to think by myself. So I seek a reliable structure => wikisocion.net for me. In this structure I can be sure of the information I get, and I know that it is objective.
Well, that's how I get it. I prefer being alone reading wikisocion than asking help on PerC.

I guess a 6 would have felt betrayed, or didn't understood what happened to him. This wound would manifest as doubts. Why is the 6 doubting? Because he's seeking the truth. Doubting something is the way to know the validity of this data/person. The fear of being wrong and hurt again is the reason of those doubts. The 6 don't want to be surprised or backstabbed again, so it will test again and again this thing.

It's true that it is hard to understand the origin of those struggles.



It is very different.

For an Si-dominant, the avoidance of discomfort is his primary goal and motivation. That's why they are perceiving the environment with their subjective physical states as the first criteria. That's how they can create archetypes with those sensory data, and will be able to know subjectively if this archetype is good or not. Next, they will be focused on recreating those previous positive and comfortable archetypes that they have perceived. The avoidance of discomfort being the most important thing, opening possibilities and exploring them (Ne), isn't the best option. Recreating previous comfortable states will be their strength.

The 6, will just avoid "being without support or guidance". Not necessarily comfortable states. Not necessarily sensory experiences. The 6 just don't trust himself, and others. He will only trust this reliable structure he choosed.
I can really relate to this.

For instance, someone says "Nice outfit!", I'm instantly on high alert thinking "Is this person mocking me? Or is he/she speaking the truth? Does he/she want something from me? Have I had an interaction with this person beforehand that could have let to this situation? Did I do something that made him/her get back at me?"
Meanwhile I'm just standing there without saying anything for like 20 seconds.

This is also why I can't deal with insults. I take far too much time to process things to be able to give a response. After the person saying the insult is gone I will start brooding for a few hours on how to get back at him/her. In the end I come to the conclusion that the result of my counter-attack will cause me more harm than good, which causes me to simply abandon the whole thing.
 
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This is a very good answer, thank you. It makes me think I'm a 6.

Do you happen to know how 6 and 5 are different?

And how to tell them apart?
Well, I'm still currently reading several books about enneagram.

What I've understood for now is that 5s are affraid of being inadequete. To be more specific, they are affraid of being useless, powerless, or incompetent in the external world. They are isolated and secretive.

Because knowledge has a special value to them. They may have felt unable to act in the external world, or internally invaded. Their reaction is that they feel unsafe in the external world. Not like 6s does. 5s has knowledge as a unique weapon. Their knowledge. So they won't share it with anyone without feeling emptiness. It's like having money, you need it to survive, and you can't give it to anyone. Without money you are nothing. This is how they feel. Because their knowledge is so important to them, they keep it secret. This is their only way to face the world. Get as much knowledge as possible.

Imagine that you have to start a war. You will have to get as much money as possible to buy weapons and stuff, if you don't want the ennemy to invade you.
They seek omniscience, because if you know everything, you'll never be inadequate or incompetent, in this situation.

6s don't trust themselves. And they don't want to learn for the sake of learning. They underestimate themselves, and they seek security above pure knowledge (I think that security is reliable knowledge).

They can look similar, because 6s will seek knowledge too. They will always doubt everything, and seek more information. But the motivations are different. 6s seek certainty, because this way they will be able to act without being affraid. 5s seek omniscience, because they want the resources to be able to face the world.

6s are facing anxiety, and 5s are facing invasion of the external world.

If you are 6w5 or 5w6, I guess that it won't be enough because you'll see both patterns within you.
 

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Well, I'm still currently reading several books about enneagram.

What I've understood for now is that 5s are affraid of being inadequete. To be more specific, they are affraid of being useless, powerless, or incompetent in the external world. They are isolated and secretive.

Because knowledge has a special value to them. They may have felt unable to act in the external world, or internally invaded. Their reaction is that they feel unsafe in the external world. Not like 6s does. 5s has knowledge as a unique weapon. Their knowledge. So they won't share it with anyone without feeling emptiness. It's like having money, you need it to survive, and you can't give it to anyone. Without money you are nothing. This is how they feel. Because their knowledge is so important to them, they keep it secret. This is their only way to face the world. Get as much knowledge as possible.

Imagine that you have to start a war. You will have to get as much money as possible to buy weapons and stuff, if you don't want the ennemy to invade you.
They seek omniscience, because if you know everything, you'll never be inadequate or incompetent, in this situation.

6s don't trust themselves. And they don't want to learn for the sake of learning. They underestimate themselves, and they seek security above pure knowledge (I think that security is reliable knowledge).

They can look similar, because 6s will seek knowledge too. They will always doubt everything, and seek more information. But the motivations are different. 6s seek certainty, because this way they will be able to act without being affraid. 5s seek omniscience, because they want the resources to be able to face the world.

6s are facing anxiety, and 5s are facing invasion of the external world.

If you are 6w5 or 5w6, I guess that it won't be enough because you'll see both patterns within you.
Your two posts have already told me more about Enneagram that any of the independent readings I've done online :th_woot:




I totally see how I am much more 6 than 5.

And thank you so much for clarifying what "security" means. That's one of the vocabulary words that is frequently used to describe type 6 that I never could identify with.

But I totally identify with reliable and useful knowledge. Not just knowledge about anything and everything, but knowledge about things that I can apply and that are actually useful to me.

And another word frequently used that I can't identify with is "anxious."

Skeptical is a way better word to use. I don't identify with fearing or dreading things (anxiety), but I do definitely identify with being very skeptical of people's true motives or of the things that I hear or read.


Do any of your books talk about introverted 7s? :laughing:
 

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I'm afraid of being alone in the sense of having everyone turned against me. Like feeling crushed and silenced.
 

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Well, I'm still currently reading several books about enneagram.

What I've understood for now is that 5s are affraid of being inadequete. To be more specific, they are affraid of being useless, powerless, or incompetent in the external world. They are isolated and secretive.

Because knowledge has a special value to them. They may have felt unable to act in the external world, or internally invaded. Their reaction is that they feel unsafe in the external world. Not like 6s does. 5s has knowledge as a unique weapon. Their knowledge. So they won't share it with anyone without feeling emptiness. It's like having money, you need it to survive, and you can't give it to anyone. Without money you are nothing. This is how they feel. Because their knowledge is so important to them, they keep it secret. This is their only way to face the world. Get as much knowledge as possible.

Imagine that you have to start a war. You will have to get as much money as possible to buy weapons and stuff, if you don't want the ennemy to invade you.
They seek omniscience, because if you know everything, you'll never be inadequate or incompetent, in this situation.

6s don't trust themselves. And they don't want to learn for the sake of learning. They underestimate themselves, and they seek security above pure knowledge (I think that security is reliable knowledge).

They can look similar, because 6s will seek knowledge too. They will always doubt everything, and seek more information. But the motivations are different. 6s seek certainty, because this way they will be able to act without being affraid. 5s seek omniscience, because they want the resources to be able to face the world.

6s are facing anxiety, and 5s are facing invasion of the external world.

If you are 6w5 or 5w6, I guess that it won't be enough because you'll see both patterns within you.
You did a good job describing the inner experience of a Five. We enjoy sharing some knowledge (in fact, we love it!), but we're secretive about our private lives and our feelings. This compulsive need for privacy can apply to 6w5s, too, but 6w5s are much more comfortable exposing themselves to the world. As a Five, I feel like a layer of my skin is ripped off when someone finds out my secrets. I would have a mental breakdown if something happened to put my private life in the public eye. I can only interact with people in small groups, on a one-to-one basis, or as a fictional character. Receiving too much attention is unbearable for me.
 
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