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Discussion Starter #1
I've found I always say something completely different to what everyone would think of. They often don't really understand it and that can upset me... for example when giving some ideas in class, occasionally people/the teacher may think they are brilliant but more often than not they are completely bashed down.. Probably because I always find it hard to put into words the thoughts in my head. They make perfect sense in that wonderfully crazy word 'up there' but they just don't seem to make any sense 'out there'. Therefore people don't completely understand me and maybe that's why people think they're wrong? Or maybe they just are wrong... :(

I know you'll say it's good to be different, and I think so too! I honestly could not live any other way! It's just I'm wondering if all of these thoughts and ideas are actually wrong.. and why that might happen... Any other INFP's feel the same? :/

(and sorry if you don't get where I'm coming from with this either, this makes wayy more sense in my head.. again just can't find the right words :( )
 

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Yes, I know where you're coming from, when you don't get any feedback or you do get feedback (positive or negative) but it's missing your point. Frustrating.
Don't know what you can do about it, but I understand.
 

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Yes, I know where you're coming from, when you don't get any feedback or you do get feedback (positive or negative) but it's missing your point. Frustrating.
Don't know what you can do about it, but I understand.
Nor am I... maybe because we are such 'big picture' thinkers we just need to remember to unpick our steps? Then, when it comes to the seemingly impossible task of explaining the idea to others, we can go through it with them step by step. This should hopefully make the idea even clearer in our heads too

And thanks! After all, understanding is often all an INFP needs to make them feel better ;)
 

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I'm sorry to say it doesn't change if you enter the corporate world. You will float an idea and it will be shot down with ruthless bile. Then, as soon as you are not looking, the person who was most vicious in dismissing your idea will have become the author of it when it actually becomes implemented.

See, your ideas *are* worthy. It's just that these other people are playing a different game that we either don't understand or that we refuse to play because it contravenes our values. Once I finally realized what was going on, my days in that world were numbered. I am much happier now that I quit. There is another world out here that doesn't play that game. There is less money in it but there is also less stress and strife.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I'm sorry to say it doesn't change if you enter the corporate world. You will float an idea and it will be shot down with ruthless bile. Then, as soon as you are not looking, the person who was most vicious in dismissing your idea will have become the author of it when it actually becomes implemented.

See, your ideas *are* worthy. It's just that these other people are playing a different game that we either don't understand or that we refuse to play because it contravenes our values. Once I finally realized what was going on, my days in that world were numbered. I am much happier now that I quit. There is another world out here that doesn't play that game. There is less money in it but there is also less stress and strife.
Eurgh that sounds utterly vile! At least at school they don't belittle then steal your ideas! I loathe the corporate world with a passion and am rather impressed at how long you managed to survive! And I'm glad you've found another, happier route :)

Really, what is the point of money? It brings out human's most evil quality: greed. No money = no greed = no evil = LOVE and PEACE for us all :D The answer is simple, so why are there still so many Benjamin Franklins floating around??
 

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@AnnieeBubble :shocked: we have same enneagram type. Yay! First other INFP I've seen with 5w6 9w1 2w1.
 
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@AnnieeBubble :shocked: we have same enneagram type. Yay! First other INFP I've seen with 5w6 9w1 2w1.
OMG you have no idea how special that makes me feel! :'D Though I am not hugely knowledgeable of enneagrams, so please enlighten me on what our special little code means! I know I am an individualistic peacemaker.. which is pretty epic?! :D
 
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This is why I take solace in writing, sometimes. I find that because my ideas are so tangential and nebulous, trying to pin down their specific meaning by speaking them out loud only seems to happen when I am talking to myself in a trance or when I am talking with a friend I am very comfortable with. Everyone else just seems to... throw off my mental balance, somehow. At least when it's written down you can take all the time you want to structure the idea in the way you best see fit. At least that way you know that if it's too abstract or intellectual or plain crazy for others to get, it's not necessarily due to the way it was put across. That being said, I also concur with @telepariah as regards the games. It seems as though in the white collar, private sector based jobs, bullies and assholes don't completely disappear, they just become more subtle and manipulative (not like there's a wage at stake when in school after all).
 

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OMG you have no idea how special that makes me feel! :'D Though I am not hugely knowledgeable of enneagrams, so please enlighten me on what our special little code means! I know I am an individualistic peacemaker.. which is pretty epic?! :D
I might be wrong, but I think it means we're weird :wink:
:laughing:
 

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I might be wrong, but I think it means we're weird :wink:
:laughing:
Perfect ;)

EDIT: as in it's perfect that we're weird.. not that we are perfect haha xD

and thank you @krentz ! you 'worded' that beautifully :') I find art also a very good way to express thoughts and ideas, although art is arguably even harder for the audience to understand :/
 
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I guess I sort of found a world where those kind of "out there" ideas are pretty valuable. But I can't remember a time when they weren't helpful to others. Oh, except elementary school when I was tormented mercilessly. But those people turned out to be douchebags and I feel really sorry for them now. I even served one of my elementary school bullies soup at a homeless shelter once :( He didn't remember me but I remembered him, and I felt so bad for him. I don't think everyone would have. God bless being an INFP if it means I get compassion :)
 

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and thank you @krentz ! you 'worded' that beautifully :') I find art also a very good way to express thoughts and ideas, although art is arguably even harder for the audience to understand :/
Hey, thanks for the compliment. It's nice to know that endless years of introspection have had some sort of payoff! Your comment reminds me of when I was doing an 'art appreciation' class in high school (it was mandatory). I felt like I was one of about two or three people that were on the same page as the teacher in terms of ideas the artist was trying to express. Others couldn't look past the concrete - getting tied up in how strange the forms were and how bizarre his working methods were. But I understood that art is a personal process; a form of creative self-expression that need not make sense to anyone else.

In retrospect, that was a very INFP train of thought - I now realise that some artists create in order to convey a message to a wider audience. That's the thing about art. It's very subjective, and you can't ever know whether any two people interpret the same piece in the same way. Moreover, you can't be certain that any two artists think in the same way. In fact, they almost certainly don't, although the creative spirit lends itself to a certain degree of overlap. I used to think that symbolic and conceptual thinking made me 'special', more intelligent than others, because it seemed like such a rare trait. Now I know, of course, that it isn't the case. I just couldn't help but keep my eyes focused on distant horizons if only because there seemed to be little worth noting in my immediate surroundings.
 

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I can completely relate. Nobody I know processes information the same way I do so I'm basically invalid. I've learned that often it's not what we say but how we're perceived. I've seen "Masters of Bullshit" amaze their bosses or professors with verbal crappola by simply being very charismatic. This happened to me last week: We got a company email asking us for ideas on improving customer service. I emailed in my idea based on a horrible customer experience of my employer. A simple change to make a drastically better experience for our customers. All of our competition has been using this idea for years! I got a "thumbs down" because I don't have the "Master of Bullshit" personality. I mean, I could tell these morons "2+2=4" & coming from me they'd smirk & say "I don't believe you." Anyway, I looked at all the other submitted ideas in the company website & saw a lot of crappola. With high approval ratings. I've had decades to get used to it but sometimes it still bugs me. Anyway enough about me. AnnieeBubble, have them explain to you why they don't like your idea. Some people don't want to think, you have to make them. They may be on "auto-reject" mode, where what you say goes in one ear & out the other. When they shoot down your idea ask them, "Why? Explain please?" Corner them with truth, facts & logic. Sometimes that turns the light on in their head. Or just makes them stutter a lot. Sounds like they owe you an answer.
 

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Good on you for being brave enough to state your ideas in class.

A lot of the best ideas weren't popular when people first stated them. But the important thing is that you keep having them. Don't let other people diminish your sense of wonder and curiosity, because it's a beautiful thing.
 

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I have no idea what you are talking about...

Just kidding. I find myself in the same situation somewhat frequently. There are a lot of complex ideas that float around in my head, and any way that I try to verbalize them ends up falling a little bit short. It's like there is enough anxiety in trying to speak to people that it cripples my thought process just enough that things I say end up sounding crazy, vague, useless or incomprehensible. I'm with @krentz in that I have a much better time putting things in writing. It forces me to process the information in a way that makes it less of a cloud and more of a concrete idea. If not to me, then at least to others. And there is something about successfully expressing an idea that is fun an rewarding to me. It's no good if it's just stuck in my head, but if someone else can understand it and benefit from it, awesome. It makes sense in your brain, and you know intuitively that it makes sense, but finding the words to construct that idea in a way that holds up to others is sometimes a challenge, but it is so worth it.
 

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Yes, I have been there & continue to be there at times. When I was a kid, I often made friends because of my "ideas". Creativity has a higher value in children, and I was rewarded both academically & socially for it. I made friends because I had cool ideas that other kids were excited to play out.

As adults, people approach everything with a "resume" (even socially) - what you have done in the past, literally & tangibly. As a kid, you're encouraged to approach things in terms of "what could this be?" and "what if things were X way instead"?. You often do this through make-believe, but this style is greatly devalued as an adult. Even socially, it's all "I went here last weekend" and "I like to do X as a hobby", etc. No one wants to explore those make-believe worlds. They tend to trust ideas that are familiar - that sound/look like something that has been done - because they trouble imagining that which hasn't.

There's hardly anyway to get people to try these ideas unless they trust & respect YOU. This is why I think INFPs rightly take rejection & criticism of their ideas to heart - it IS personal. Often in school & even work, people listen to those they LIKE over those who are really the right person for the job.

The other thing to do is work on articulating yourself. Someone mentioned that we can jump from A to D and forget to explain the details, and with new ideas, people often needs clear connections between points & tons of details in order to see it & warm up to it. What's "obvious" to you is not so obvious to others. They'll dismiss it because they don't even understand it, or it's so foreign & new they can't trust it. The more details they have, the more familiar it will become to them, and the less of a knee-jerk reaction they may have.


I agree that people stealing your ideas will become a bigger problem as times goes on though, especially in the working world. Even my own ENTP dad steals my ideas :dry:.

Let me just prepare you for when people DO listen to your ideas:

1) You can inadvertently become the "leader", even if you have no desire to be. Because you threw the winning idea out there, everyone expects you to direct them in accomplishing it. While the average NP loves others to complete their ideas for them (because we often get bored with it & are ready to move onto another idea before it's done), we don't necessarily want to walk them through it. OR we're so attached to the idea & have such high standards for it that we're difficult to work with. We'd rather do it ourselves so it's done "right", not direct others or take their input.

2) In the future, you continue to be looked at as a "leader" because you've proven to be the idea-generator. Pressure!!!!

3) You can see your idea morphed into something else as others simply take it as a good starting point. For the INFP who is very attached to their idea, this can be worse than having it dismissed, because the integrity of it is lost. Sometimes it's morphed into something so awful you don't even want to take credit for it, yet it's close enough to the original idea that you can't "reuse" it.


There are probably other drawbacks, and yes, positives too, but I'll leave it at that....
 

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After writing an extensive analysis of the core problems in the human tendencies described in this thread, and offering up a technique from my bag of psychological tricks for dealing with social groups, I then deleted it all.

I know an INFP, and not only would the INFP be uncomfortable presenting a false front to others, I would very much regret influencing such a wonderful person to sink to such levels.

Instead, I wanted to convey my appreciation to you people, who are so genuine and regardful of others. I always remember most, and speak highest of, those who are most reluctant to backstab and denigrate others. It's a shame that most people are such hostile and condemning creatures, but just one decent soul in an entire social group makes a huge difference in my day.

EDIT: And I forgot to keep the section in about the actual point of the thread. :(
As an ENTP, I absolutely love hearing new ideas, as opposed to the same old dreary approaches that have been used a thousand times. I am especially fascinated with ideas that bring about the best changes, as opposed to worrying about the effort or cost involved with making extensive changes. Keep up the great work, some of us appreciate it.
 

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@bigtalljay "I have no idea what you are talking about..."

I considered the solution to the infp problem of never feeling understood was to find more/other infps. But sometimes I do think that most infps don't understand me either.

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It sucks if that is your experience all throughout life (the OP) but I think it depends on circumstance - there are infp friendly areas of the world; literature, philosophy, sociology. maybe. And anyhow, faith in your own profundity is probably good :)
 
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