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Discussion Starter #1
I feel I have noticed that Ni is not generally socially accepted.

People tend to not give stock to it, especially in day to day life. Ti is valued and accepted; just look at all the theories on and use of logic. Te is valued and accepted; just look at how everyone likes someone who can organize stuff in day to day life and business related duties. Se is valued and accepted; everyone is always saying get out and experience the world by bungee jumping, mountain climbing, and going to the beach, etc. Si is valued and accepted; just look at all the traditions people say are good and follow. Fe is valued and accepted; just look at all sayings like treat others as you would like to be treated. Fi is valued and accepted; just look at all the sayings like be true to yourself. Ne is valued and accepted; just listen to all the people say "be innovative, come up with new ideas for us, think creatively." Ni however, gets put down as all in your head and people say things like "prove it."

Do you agree that this is so?

Why? Why not?

If so, why do you think it is this way?

Don't worry about hurting my feelings. I would like objective and subjective answers and discussions of all kinds.
 

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My 2 cents

I feel I have noticed that Ni is not generally socially accepted.

People tend to not give stock to it, especially in day to day life. Ti is valued and accepted; just look at all the theories on and use of logic. Te is valued and accepted; just look at how everyone likes someone who can organize stuff in day to day life business related duties. Se is valued and accepted; everyone is always saying get out and experience the world by bungee jumping, mountain climbing, and going to the beach, etc. Si is valued and accepted; just look at all the traditions people say are good and follow. Fe is valued and accepted; just look at all sayings like treat others as you would like to be treated. Fi is valued and accepted; just look at all the sayings like be true to yourself. Ne is valued and accepted; just listen to all the people say "be innovative, come up with new ideas for us, think creatively." Ni however, gets put down as all in your head and people say things like "prove it."

Do you agree that this is so?

Why? Why not?

If so, why do you think it is this way?

Don't worry about hurting my feelings. I would like objective and subjective answers and discussions of all kinds.
I only wish I could use this function (Ni) and it actually work for once. I don't know about Se being accepted because people here are dissing us Sensors all the time calling us simple or other not so nice things, much like Feelers (double-whammy for some of us). I wish I heard people encourage the Se in me, unfortunately that wasn't the case. I can't related to Si at all, so no comment there lol. Te I'm not good with being one of the most disorganized people you could ever meet. I do agree people put way too much emphasis on that when some of us just can't "get it together" it's frustrating and we end up feeling inferior. Fe I'd like to be able to have more of but by your definition I have such a hard time with that in practise, theory wise it's great though. Fi well, I'm not sure because I've never heard anyone say be true to myself either. Ne I don't think I'm really good with either.

It's a cultural thing why certain ones are seen as better than others, whereas I prefer the more useful ones such as my wishing to be able to tap into my inferior Ni.
 

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I only wish I could use this function (Ni) and it actually work for once. I don't know about Se being accepted because people here are dissing us Sensors all the time calling us simple or other not so nice things, much like Feelers (double-whammy for some of us). I wish I heard people encourage the Se in me, unfortunately that wasn't the case. I can't related to Si at all, so no comment there lol. Te I'm not good with being one of the most disorganized people you could ever meet. I do agree people put way too much emphasis on that when some of us just can't "get it together" it's frustrating and we end up feeling inferior. Fe I'd like to be able to have more of but by your definition I have such a hard time with that in practise, theory wise it's great though. Fi well, I'm not sure because I've never heard anyone say be true to myself either. Ne I don't think I'm really good with either.

It's a cultural thing why certain ones are seen as better than others, whereas I prefer the more useful ones such as my wishing to be able to tap into my inferior Ni.
I know where you're at there. I have ridiculous Fe aspirational issues. Not that I want to be a feeler or anything, but there's a constant awareness that despite how much logic is valued and respected by society, it's social grace and people-skills that win the day in the end.

And Se is indeed valued by society...hugely. Sensor disses really only happen on typology forums (unless I'm really naive). In the real world, we're the minority and often misunderstood because of it. Some people are bitter about it and spew elitist crap on here. They're no better than the bigoted sensors one encounters offline. Pay it no heed.:happy:
 

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I know where you're at there. I have ridiculous Fe aspirational issues. Not that I want to be a feeler or anything, but there's a constant awareness that despite how much logic is valued and respected by society, it's social grace and people-skills that win the day in the end.
I think I've seen both being valued but in different contexts. Like people skills are needed for customer service jobs (which is the biggest growing industry, at least here), but to work in silicon valley type places you need logic skills.

And Se is indeed valued by society...hugely. Sensor disses really only happen on typology forums (unless I'm really naive). In the real world, we're the minority and often misunderstood because of it. Some people are bitter about it and spew elitist crap on here. They're no better than the bigoted sensors one encounters offline. Pay it no heed.:happy:
Thanks so much! :happy: Chances are I'm the naive one (crappy Ni likely cause lol) I need to get out more or I really analyse things, likely both lol. To be honest I'm new to this stuff so I have no idea what I'd be looking for yet. Funny you mention the offline encounters because that is where I saw the most expressions of distaste having started, like if you got treated bad in one relationship, all people of that type are evil. I wish seriously people would quit with the generalizations though honestly. Lol, now I'll make a sweeping generalization and say I like talking to you NTs, myself :happy:
 

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Hmm. Well Ni is obviously most apparent in Ni doms. That being said, Ni doms are quite rare compared to most other types, so it would seem as if there is little appreciation of it. Also, people naturally find it hard to trust functions that are in opposing attitude to their own (i.e. Ne types) until they can be expressed in terms of their favored functions. :mellow:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Also, people naturally find it hard to trust functions that are in opposing attitude to their own (i.e. Ne types) until they can be expressed in terms of their favored functions. :mellow:
It takes more energy to use less preferred functions and intern creates stress. It is very taxing to always have to explain yourself in terms that don't meld perfectly with what you understand from a certain function.

For example, do you find it easy to understand Fe using Ti. Is it even possible?

In order to get others to understand we have to find a way to relate to their Ni. This can be extremely challenging especially if their Ni is mainly subconscious in them.

The only other option is to remain misunderstood. This sets up the stage for lots of loneliness, crying, and possibly bitterness and anger.

Now I am throwing a pitty party. :crying: Poor me. :tongue:
 

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Ni is more important for the individual that has Ni more than societies acceptance or appreciation. Society does appreciate Introverted Intuition when we are able to properly show it. For INFJ types that's usually for the harmony of people when Ni entangles society. If Ni and Ti work's together then this becomes a great duo, sometimes we just need that nudge to show it to the world. Ni is not to concerned about showing itself to the outside world unless needed.
When people say "prove it" a lot of times they have an answer that has already been filtered through a system of process... just like in the show Bones, where one of the people creates a computer digital re-creation of a person or an event of a crime. That is kinda how Ni is sometimes with a tad of Ti except the proof of the computer...that can be hard to explain in detail sometimes.
I don't know if I agree that society accept's Ni or not. I do believe that society can benefit from a person that correlate's it into society.
 

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I feel like you are correct OP. Even within my family I struggle to make them understand some of my ideas and views. This is partly because I can't adequately explain them and partly because my family members are SJ's and SP's and can't relate (the opposite is true as well, sometimes I cannot comprehend why they do certain things).

Anyway, there seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of Ni in general, sometimes even between two Ni dom individuals.
 

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I think you hit the nail on the head when you described the general reaction to it:

"Prove it."
A book I was reading recently on prophecy (Sylvia Browne - good prelude, odd predictions) had a wonderful exchange along those lines.

Skeptic : "Prove it."

Her : "You go prove it. I'm too busy doing it."

Ni just works, and I just do it. I can relate to others' descriptions of it, but the descriptions can't really express the mystery contained within the process. I suppose that's why I enjoy relating to other INxJs so much - there seems to be a mutual acceptance and respect for our shared lead process, without having to analyze it or explain it to someone else.
 

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You're exaggerating about how much the other functions are accepted. Ti and Fi are both rejected by mainstream society; overlogicall people and overly sensitive people. But yes, Ni is most rejected.

Ni is more important for the individual that has Ni more than societies acceptance or appreciation. Society does appreciate Introverted Intuition when we are able to properly show it.
That is the problem. They don't want to accept it as it is. Since they don't understand it, they make it into something mystical, which while flattering, brings them even further from true understanding.

Writing it off as "mystical" is equivalent to admitting that it cannot be understood. But, putting it into any concrete form erodes meaning as well (that is what makes me angry sometimes thinking about poetry. Concrete words cannot really bring an idea into light. The best a poet can do is leave the impression of the abstract). I don't know that Ni can be understood, but from the inside. It becomes even more complicated when you have try and communicate it with Te, logic efficient and simplistic. I would imagine Fe does a better job.
 

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Is it even possible?

In order to get others to understand we have to find a way to relate to their Ni.
This thread caused me to completely re-examine what Ni means. Interestingly enough, it turns out that what I thought was Ti is actually Ni. :laughing: And now I just found out I'm really an INTJ (nah, nah, I'm back to INTP). :mellow:

So I really get where you're coming from since, in socionics, I'm an INTp. :crazy:
 

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You're exaggerating about how much the other functions are accepted. Ti and Fi are both rejected by mainstream society; overlogicall people and overly sensitive people. But yes, Ni is most rejected.


That is the problem. They don't want to accept it as it is. Since they don't understand it, they make it into something mystical, which while flattering, brings them even further from true understanding.

Writing it off as "mystical" is equivalent to admitting that it cannot be understood. But, putting it into any concrete form erodes meaning as well (that is what makes me angry sometimes thinking about poetry. Concrete words cannot really bring an idea into light. The best a poet can do is leave the impression of the abstract). I don't know that Ni can be understood, but from the inside. It becomes even more complicated when you have try and communicate it with Te, logic efficient and simplistic. I would imagine Fe does a better job.
A lot of times Ni users don't understand Ni how can we expect others to always understand or as a collective whole we call society. When one grasp's their Ni with the understanding of Te or Ti to help portray it then we can bring Ni into the picture that can be accepted. Be glad that you have Te instead of Ti to help socialize your ideas and concepts of your Ni. With Ti it can be almost exhausting to do such even then people will still be like say what? At times I enjoy speaking to Ni users when my thoughts are Ni-afied then I can just say with some ease what I am trying to say without trying to make it sound logical or understandable. At times I enjoy speaking to T's like INTP's to push my Ti and correlate my Ni better in a unified way. Okay I am in some form of an tangent here......
 

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Discussion Starter #15
A lot of times Ni users don't understand Ni how can we expect others to always understand or as a collective whole we call society. When one grasp's their Ni with the understanding of Te or Ti to help portray it then we can bring Ni into the picture that can be accepted. Be glad that you have Te instead of Ti to help socialize your ideas and concepts of your Ni. With Ti it can be almost exhausting to do such even then people will still be like say what? At times I enjoy speaking to Ni users when my thoughts are Ni-afied then I can just say with some ease what I am trying to say without trying to make it sound logical or understandable. At times I enjoy speaking to T's like INTP's to push my Ti and correlate my Ni better in a unified way. Okay I am in some form of an tangent here......
Absolutely 100% agreed. That was a very understandable tangent, to me at least. It was very refreshing to read that. Sounds like it came from my head... wait. *paranoid Ne burst in head* I'm just going to assume that is because we are 3 for 3.
 

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Absolutely 100% agreed. That was a very understandable tangent, to me at least. It was very refreshing to read that. Sounds like it came from my head... wait. *paranoid Ne burst in head* I'm just going to assume that is because we are 3 for 3.[/QUOTE

Yay! for 3 for 3
 

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Ah I just had a huge brainwave! There exists, in fact, an entire field of academics, which is of supreme importance to society, that seems to be using nothing BUT Ni. Economics.

Here's an example. Once upon a time, people thought that if a hooligan smashed a baker's window, then that would create work for the window repairman. He could then use the money he got from repairing the window to buy himself a record, and so on... And so, the economy would be stimulated. This argument was used to justify the idea that WWII brought the US out of the Great Depression.

Now, here comes the Ni part.

This argument held a lot of sway over people, until Frederick Bastiat changed the way people looked at the whole thing. He simply pointed out that if we look at the situation from the perspective of a world in which the hooligan didn't smash the window, we would see that the baker, instead of having to pay for window repair, would have bought a new suit, and then this would create work for the tailor, etc. This little insight, in fact, revolutionized the way people think about economics.

And if you look at the field as a whole, you see that it consists mostly of these types of perspective shifts.

:mellow:
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Ah I just had a huge brainwave! There exists, in fact, an entire field of academics, which is of supreme importance to society, that seems to be using nothing BUT Ni. Economics.

Economics was like duh for me. I made As with little to no effort. I still don't think of it as an actual class. I did not learn anything new from it. It was all common sense.
 

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I would have to say that I disagree with the premiss that dominant Ni types are not given the reguard that other types are given.
On the contrary, we are often acknowledged for our depth of understanding or grasp of a topic.

The problem we face as Ni's is clearly communicating what we know to be the case. (I pause here, cause I'm not sure how to say what I want to say next. :frustrating:)

I've heard many INTJs say, "it's not my fault they don't understand!" But the reality is that communication is made up of the message Giver, the Message itself, and the message Reciever. If I fail to use language that you understand, or if I fail to put the information in a format that you can comprehend, then I can't expect you to aprehend or appreciate my meaning.
(I hope you're following so far. If not, please say so.)

Tools that I have found most helpful in communicating abstract ideas include the analogy and the allegory. Unfortunately, not all types have the patience to listen while we try to make our point. (My ISTJ father would always cut me off or ignore me when I launched into a story that illusrtated a point I was trying to make.) In these cases it is only once the results of an idea can be seen that acknowledgement of the idea is given.
 

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I feel I have noticed that Ni is not generally socially accepted.

People tend to not give stock to it, especially in day to day life. Ti is valued and accepted; just look at all the theories on and use of logic. Te is valued and accepted; just look at how everyone likes someone who can organize stuff in day to day life and business related duties. Se is valued and accepted; everyone is always saying get out and experience the world by bungee jumping, mountain climbing, and going to the beach, etc. Si is valued and accepted; just look at all the traditions people say are good and follow. Fe is valued and accepted; just look at all sayings like treat others as you would like to be treated. Fi is valued and accepted; just look at all the sayings like be true to yourself. Ne is valued and accepted; just listen to all the people say "be innovative, come up with new ideas for us, think creatively." Ni however, gets put down as all in your head and people say things like "prove it."

Do you agree that this is so?

Why? Why not?

If so, why do you think it is this way?

Don't worry about hurting my feelings. I would like objective and subjective answers and discussions of all kinds.

Ni is valued and accepted; just look at the bible and other religious texts ;o
Also, philosophy.
 
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