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Discussion Starter #1
Do any of you feel that the fact that you tend to be non-judgmental hurts you socially?

My impression is that people tend to bond strongly over common judgments on people/issues. E.g. some of my friends bond over being less superficial than other people, my coworkers bond over doing better work than that one idiot coworker no one likes, my mom and my brother bond over the"fact" that my dad's girlfriends are weird, my dad and my brother bond over the "fact" that people from a certain state have horrible dialects and are incredibly incompetent...:rolleyes:

Even though these people are (normally) intelligent,friendly and capable of reflecting their behavior, when it comes to the person/issue in question, they seem to refuse to be objective. Maybe because that would mean endangering their bonding experience, or because that would challenge their self-perception?

I sometimes slag people off, too, when I am having a conversation with my friends or family, and I can be pretty sarcastic/mean, but I really don't take myself seriously enough to pass strong judgment. I usually tend to try and be objective and see things from different angles. And unless someone is actively and deliberately bothering me, I try to be at least polite to them and don't hold grudges.

But I feel that this characteristic means I will always be an outsider in a way. I also find it difficult to deal with people who are very judgmental.

Do you have any tips for dealing with this?
 

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Usually when I find myself in that type of situation (and when I actually care enough to bother) I'll attempt to show people that I understand how they came to the conclusion that they did, and then I'll point out all the subjective assumptions that they made in arriving at that conclusion.

From there, I'll point out other possibilities/viewpoints that are equally valid, and hope they actually take what I've said into consideration.

In my experience people in general are incapable of stepping outside of their own experience of the world, and I think that when you encounter such people you have little choice but to accept it and move on for the time being.

I try to surround myself with folks who are able to see the relativity that exists in any positive statement. There are only a few of them, really, but I value those friendships more than almost any others.
 

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I think the only thing you can do is to present them with the other side of the story to balance out their points of view. If they are intelligent they will recede in their judgments. Think about this for a second, to judge a judgmental person is to be judgmental! There is plenty of other stuff to bond over, just use your Ne imagination. I think being non judgmental, open, and objective is the theoretically optimal way to perceive things. Despite this, being judgmental does tend to increase your chancing of getting into some social circles. But if other people are playing the game poorly and beating it, it does not mean we have to.
 

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Do any of you feel that the fact that you tend to be non-judgmental hurts you socially?
Yes.

My impression is that people tend to bond strongly over common judgments on people/issues. E.g. some of my friends bond over being less superficial than other people, my coworkers bond over doing better work than that one idiot coworker no one likes, my mom and my brother bond over the"fact" that my dad's girlfriends are weird, my dad and my brother bond over the "fact" that people from a certain state have horrible dialects and are incredibly incompetent...:rolleyes:

Even though these people are (normally) intelligent,friendly and capable of reflecting their behavior, when it comes to the person/issue in question, they seem to refuse to be objective. Maybe because that would mean endangering their bonding experience, or because that would challenge their self-perception?

I sometimes slag people off, too, when I am having a conversation with my friends or family, and I can be pretty sarcastic/mean, but I really don't take myself seriously enough to pass strong judgment. I usually tend to try and be objective and see things from different angles. And unless someone is actively and deliberately bothering me, I try to be at least polite to them and don't hold grudges.

But I feel that this characteristic means I will always be an outsider in a way. I also find it difficult to deal with people who are very judgmental.
yes. If you're partisan, then while one side hates you, the other side loves you and you still have a place. If you are non-partisan, then both sides see you as "other" and you don't have a place in their world. There is no actual "connection," there's just a refusal to discriminate with an anti-connection against a side, and they reject you for it.

Do you have any tips for dealing with this?
Find other ways to establish bonds. Either shared experiences, or giving to people / investing in them positively as people, aside from the "ideological/philosophical" discussions. since they can't find a connection with you for hating the same things they do, find other ways to connect that have nothing to do with that.

They might still think, "<so and so> has some crazy ideas or think that something is okay that I think is stupid/wrong, but (s)he did help me move, or stick up for me at a meeting, or took more than his/her fair share of driving," etc.

Since INTP is so much about the assessment of ideas, though, I think this takes some time to develop confidence and skill in areas outside of that... especially in the interpersonal realms.
 

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In my humble opinion it has as much potential to create enemies as it does friends. But yes, it does arm one with a position and a capacity to potentially relate to others. I used to think my pervasive impartiality in most walks of life allowed me to live a stress free existence, I now realise it only allows me to lead an empty one.

How2judgebettaisthnx.
 

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The fact is that we all judge. You're judging people for being judgmental.

I see what you're saying, though, in a way. I don't like to judge people before I get to know them. It's not fair to me because I wouldn't want to be judged either. Personally, I think being able to reserve judgment is a noble characteristic to have and I don't see how this could hurt you socially. I don't come off as sanctimonious. We are all guilty of quickly judging people in our own way. No one can be truly "objective"; we all enter situations with our own biases and perceptions. I'd just advise not to worry about what anyone else does. The way to deal with it is to ignore it unless it directly affects you or you really feel compelled to call someone out. Also, embrace being different (or an outsider). It's dangerous when people do things uncharacteristically in order to fit in. If you do this, you will make it a habit of compromising other parts about yourself.
 

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I don't really care if my disinclination to see things in black and white doesn't endear me to those who are strongly partisan, as they tend to not be the people I want to really be around that much anyways. There is a difference between being flighty and wishy-washy and trying to keep an open and inquisitive mind on issues though. Think about things and know what you're talking about, even if you don't feel the need to take a strong stance.

If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
 

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The fact is that we all judge. You're judging people for being judgmental.

I see what you're saying, though, in a way. I don't like to judge people before I get to know them. It's not fair to me because I wouldn't want to be judged either. Personally, I think being able to reserve judgment is a noble characteristic to have and I don't see how this could hurt you socially. I don't come off as sanctimonious. We are all guilty of quickly judging people in our own way. No one can be truly "objective"; we all enter situations with our own biases and perceptions. I'd just advise not to worry about what anyone else does. The way to deal with it is to ignore it unless it directly affects you or you really feel compelled to call someone out. Also, embrace being different (or an outsider). It's dangerous when people do things uncharacteristically in order to fit in. If you do this, you will make it a habit of compromising other parts about yourself.
This^. Do your thing, do what you have to do, but don't compromise your own values or sense of self to "fit in" with assholes.

I've never noticed that people bond over being "judgmental", at all.

I have noticed that a lot of people bond over being part of in-groups, and that this often this manifests as petty backstabbing or "slagging off" people in other groups. Not really a difference as much as a subtle distinction. The slagging off isn't even ill-will, in these scenarios, it's more about preserving the group's sense of identity.

I ignore all of this, at this point in my life. I remember in college there was a rivalry between my group and some of the "radio station" kids, but it was sort of a joke and we all ended up making cactus sandwiches together anyway. I've seen some truly vicious inter-group dynamics go down, but again, I refuse to participate. Some toxic workplaces are really bad with that kind of thing; ignoring all of it and refusing to participate helped me get off scott free when other people were being demoted for it.
 

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No way.

I used to be much less judgmental and I had WAY more friends.

Now I'm kind of a bitch, people don't like it.

I was an outsider but the same time I fit in with more groups than most people do.
 
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Discussion Starter #12
No one can be truly "objective"; we all enter situations with our own biases and perceptions.
That is true, and I obviously have biases and prejudices, too, and I guess you could say that I am judgemental because I don't like judgmental people.

But the people I am talking about usually do not even make the faintest attempt to be objective or to become aware of how their bias influences them.
And I find it hard to just stand by and keep quiet, especially when someone might end up getting hurt, or when someone is actually attacking me indirectly.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I have noticed that a lot of people bond over being part of in-groups, and that this often this manifests as petty backstabbing or "slagging off" people in other groups. Not really a difference as much as a subtle distinction. The slagging off isn't even ill-will, in these scenarios, it's more about preserving the group's sense of identity.
Isn't that even worse than being judgemental because you actually mean it :dry:?
 

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Maybe social circles are just about how much common ground people share and the common ground includes a common value system that causes people in groups to hate on others who don't share that common value, i.e. "judgmental."

That connieculkins infj chick on the other thread thought the intp mother was a terrible mother because she chose not to participate in the motherly activities culkins valued (assuming she wasn't a troll???). Did you notice how we all judged her for having such a narrowly tailored idea of what constitutes a good mother or good person? Everybody is judgmental and it's difficult for me to attach a negative connotation to the word. It's just a truth.

You probably just give people the benefit of the doubt and are unwilling to jump to any negative conclusions about other people. I wouldn't worry about molding yourself to fit in with the masses because that's not who you are. The greatest way to improve your social life is to be yourself. Yeah, I know, cliche.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Find other ways to establish bonds. Either shared experiences, or giving to people / investing in them positively as people, aside from the "ideological/philosophical" discussions. since they can't find a connection with you for hating the same things they do, find other ways to connect that have nothing to do with that.
Yes, I do try that, but I feel that people find it easier to connect with other people over common dislikes. The problem is not that people don't like me, but there is always a certain distance when I don't join in with them.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
You'll never change or fix them, and you'll waste time you could've spent more productively.
I know I cannot change people. And that is not my intention.

But unfortunately I have this desire to engage in social activities and to be liked- life would definitely be easier without that.
And unfortunately this desire seems to get worse with age.
 

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I know I cannot change people. And that is not my intention.

But unfortunately I have this desire to engage in social activities and to be liked- life would definitely be easier without that.
And unfortunately this desire seems to get worse with age.
Bummer.

...
 

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I know I cannot change people. And that is not my intention.

But unfortunately I have this desire to engage in social activities and to be liked- life would definitely be easier without that.
And unfortunately this desire seems to get worse with age.
Willy Loman comes to mind...
 
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