Personality Cafe banner
1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,856 Posts
What has you interested in nonsterotypical ESTJs?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,053 Posts
Are you certain there actually exists such a subspecies of ESTJ?
Based upon my limited observations, the majority of ESTJs (half dozen) aren't at all similar to the negative stereotypical description.
I think maybe one ESTJ appears to exhibit almost rude behavior, likely indicative of excessively dominant Te & notably underdeveloped secondary/tertiary functions.
IOW you'll likely observe that the vast majority (<-LOL) of ESTJs are relaxed, laidback individuals.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,856 Posts
I don't hear from you guys often, and I don't think I've ever met a non-stereotypical one.
Hmmm.

Well personally, I'm not the stereotype, but I'm not an atypical ESTJ.

I think stargazing grasshopper highlights the conflict of your question quite nicely: it's not so much that there are ESTJs who defy the stereotype as it is the stereotype simply doesn't embrace who the average ESTJ is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,804 Posts
My brother is ESTJ and a funny, friendly guy most of the time .
The average ESTJ is far from an oppressive dictator if that's the stereotype you had in mind :wink:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,856 Posts
My brother is ESTJ and a funny, friendly guy most of the time .
The average ESTJ is far from an oppressive dictator if that's the stereotype you had in mind :wink:
Tell him to join the PerC ESTJ club. We need more ESTJs on here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cesspool and Pinina

·
Registered
ENTJ 3w2-5w6-9w8 so/sp
Joined
·
1,185 Posts
I totally agree with stargazing grasshopper and Pilot.
No ESTJ is really just a stereotype. I can only speak for myself, but one of the nicest things, someone told me during the last months was, that "if someone asks me how my day was, even if it was horrible, I say that with an attitude like it was my best day ever". I'm just really optimistic and motivational. Also, I'm sometimes pretty clumsy and absent-minded, which is not that typical for an ESTJ ^^"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,053 Posts
My brother is ESTJ and a funny, friendly guy most of the time .
The average ESTJ is far from an oppressive dictator if that's the stereotype you had in mind :wink:
ESTJ Personality (“The Executive�) | 16Personalities
ESTJ Personality - Conclusion | 16Personalities Hmm, there are 8 ESTJs below that commented on fb, somebody ought to offer them an invitation to PerC. We need a recruitment officer LOL, nah just kidding:wink:


ESTJ PERSONALITY (“THE EXECUTIVE”)


Good order is the foundation of all things.
Edmund Burke​
ESTJs are representatives of tradition and order, utilizing their understanding of what is right, wrong and socially acceptable to bring families and communities together. Embracing the values of honesty, dedication and dignity, people with the ESTJ personality type are valued for their clear advice and guidance, and they happily lead the way on difficult paths. Taking pride in bringing people together, ESTJs often take on roles as community organizers, working hard to bring everyone together in celebration of cherished local events, or in defense of the traditional values that hold families and communities together.
ANYONE WORTH THEIR SALT STICKS UP FOR WHAT THEY BELIEVE IS RIGHT...

Demand for such leadership is high in democratic societies, and forming no less than 11% of the population, it's no wonder that many of America's presidents have been ESTJs. Strong believers in the rule of law and authority that must be earned, ESTJ personalities lead by example, demonstrating dedication and purposeful honesty, and an utter rejection of laziness and cheating, especially in work. If anyone declares hard, manual work to be an excellent way to build character, it is ESTJs.

ESTJs are aware of their surroundings and live in a world of clear, verifiable facts - the surety of their knowledge means that even against heavy resistance, they stick to their principles and push an unclouded vision of what is and is not acceptable. Their opinions aren't just empty talk either, as ESTJs are more than willing to dive into the most challenging projects, improving action plans and sorting details along the way, making even the most complicated tasks seem easy and approachable.
However, ESTJs don't work alone, and they expect their reliability and work ethic to be reciprocated - people with this personality type meet their promises, and if partners or subordinates jeopardize them through incompetence or laziness, or worse still, dishonesty, they do not hesitate to show their wrath. This can earn them a reputation for inflexibility, a trait shared by all Sentinels (SJ), but it's not because ESTJs are arbitrarily stubborn, but because they truly believe that these values are what make society work.
...BUT STILL BETTER ARE THOSE WHO ACKNOWLEDGE WHEN THEY ARE IN ERROR.

ESTJs are classic images of the model citizen: they help their neighbors, uphold the law, and try to make sure that everyone participates in the communities and organizations they hold so dear.
The main challenge for ESTJs is to recognize that not everyone follows the same path or contributes in the same way. A true leader recognizes the strength of the individual, as well as that of the group, and helps bring those individuals' ideas to the table. That way, ESTJs really do have all the facts, and are able to lead the charge in directions that work for everyone.







ESTJ WEAKNESSES


  • Inflexible and Stubborn - The problem with being so fixated on what works is that ESTJs too often dismiss what might work better. Everything is opinion until proven, and ESTJ personalities are reluctant to trust an opinion long enough for it to have that chance.
  • Uncomfortable with Unconventional Situations - ESTJs are strong adherents to tradition and when suddenly forced to try unvetted solutions, they become uncomfortable and stressed. New ideas suggest that their methods weren't good enough, and abandoning what has always worked before in favor of something that may yet fail risks their image of reliability.
  • Judgmental - ESTJs have strong convictions about what is right, wrong, and socially acceptable. ESTJs' compulsion to create order often extends to all things and everyone, ignoring the possibility that there are two right ways to get things done. ESTJs do not hesitate to let these "deviants" know what they think, considering it their duty to set things right.
  • Too Focused on Social Status - ESTJs take pride in the respect of their friends, colleagues and community and while difficult to admit, are very concerned with public opinion. ESTJs (especially Turbulent ones) can get so caught up in meeting others' expectations that they fail to address their own needs.
  • Difficult to Relax - This need for respect fosters a need to maintain their dignity, which can make it difficult to cut loose and relax for risk of looking the fool, even in good fun.
  • Difficulty Expressing Emotion - This is all evidence of ESTJs' greatest weakness: expressing emotions and feeling empathy. People with the ESTJ personality type get so caught up in the facts and most effective methods that they forget to think of what makes others happy, or of their sensitivity. A detour can be breathtakingly beautiful, a joy for the family, but ESTJs may only see the consequence of arriving at their destination an hour late, hurting their loved ones by rejecting the notion too harshly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
452 Posts
Non stereotypical ESTJs... where are you? In what way(s) are you not the conventional ESTJ?
Define what the stereotypical ESTJ means to you. Different cultures and other influences would affect things, wouldn't it?

Perhaps the best thing to do would be to go and observe people around you. The only thing here is DO NOT ASSUME. There's nonstereotypical versions of every type, identifying them would be easier if you and I had open minds instead of jumping to conclusions about what type the person is....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Define what the stereotypical ESTJ means to you. Different cultures and other influences would affect things, wouldn't it?

Perhaps the best thing to do would be to go and observe people around you. The only thing here is DO NOT ASSUME. There's nonstereotypical versions of every type, identifying them would be easier if you and I had open minds instead of jumping to conclusions about what type the person is....
A stereotypical ESTJ, at least the ones I met, were sporty people with skilled leadership. They were kind of aggressive, usually wanted to control others, and were really really blunt. Usually, they were very popular too. This is just based off my own experience and these were the stereotypes that they fitted :p Anyway, I'm not saying that all ESTJs are like that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
I've tested ESTJ multiple times over the years. I think I might be quite different from the most common ESTJ in this: I'm abstracting. I think that this is due to a strongly developed Ne tertiary function. I find that I get extremely excited (almost like a child) when I see details confirm theory in a logical way. Thus a Si-Ne agreement backed up with inductive Te. I still struggle with Fi quite a bit, but am learning to at least try to understand my feelings and become more introspective. I find it easier to just ask how someone else is feeling rather than hopelessly try go decipher their feelings with my sad Fi.

Recently, I have sometimes thought myself to be more NT temperament by this abstracting attribute; however, I find that though I am abstracting, I am very careful confirm all abstraction with concrete support.

I have an extreme interest in applied mathematics, and physics, where there is a large portion of mathematical theory that can be confirmed through experiments (I'm planning on pursuing a career in research). I recall when I read someone say that an ESTJ scientist sounded like a nightmare. I would disagree: an ESTJ scientist would stay more true to the facts and have a strong inductive analysis, avoiding wasted time with theoretical constructs that may not truly exist. I love theory, but details first.

So I suppose that a theoretical ESTJ would escape the stereotype in this way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,036 Posts
I've tested ESTJ multiple times over the years. I think I might be quite different from the most common ESTJ in this: I'm abstracting. I think that this is due to a strongly developed Ne tertiary function. I find that I get extremely excited (almost like a child) when I see details confirm theory in a logical way. Thus a Si-Ne agreement backed up with inductive Te. I still struggle with Fi quite a bit, but am learning to at least try to understand my feelings and become more introspective. I find it easier to just ask how someone else is feeling rather than hopelessly try go decipher their feelings with my sad Fi.

Recently, I have sometimes thought myself to be more NT temperament by this abstracting attribute; however, I find that though I am abstracting, I am very careful confirm all abstraction with concrete support.

I have an extreme interest in applied mathematics, and physics, where there is a large portion of mathematical theory that can be confirmed through experiments (I'm planning on pursuing a career in research). I recall when I read someone say that an ESTJ scientist sounded like a nightmare. I would disagree: an ESTJ scientist would stay more true to the facts and have a strong inductive analysis, avoiding wasted time with theoretical constructs that may not truly exist. I love theory, but details first.

So I suppose that a theoretical ESTJ would escape the stereotype in this way.
The ESTJ and the ISTJ are more scientist-like than any other type.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
289 Posts
A stereotypical ESTJ, at least the ones I met, were sporty people with skilled leadership. They were kind of aggressive, usually wanted to control others, and were really really blunt. Usually, they were very popular too. This is just based off my own experience and these were the stereotypes that they fitted :p Anyway, I'm not saying that all ESTJs are like that.
Well... by this definition, I can name several ways in which I am not the stereotypical ESTJ.

1. I am so *not* sporty it's laughable. I am a programmer. My dad is a programmer. My whole family has lived more of sedentary lifestyle. That combined with the fact that until about a year ago, I had an astigmatism which prevented my eyes from focusing on things of various distance for a while. For example, if I was looking at my paper on my desk in school, it would take my eyes a couple minutes to readjust enough to be able to read whatever the teacher was writing on the chalkboard. You can imagine how this affected my ability to play sports. Balls flying through the air do not stop and wait for your eyes to focus on them. I literally could not see objects moving that quickly or could not judge their distance from me with any degree of accuracy. So sports were not a thing I was ever really interested in.

2. I suppose next depends on how you define skilled leadership. If I feel confident in my position and comfortable with a task that needs to be done, I can easily organize and delegate and get things done, and I enjoy it. I easily see what all needs to be done to accomplish something on the larger scale, and I highly prize efficiency and know how to improve efficiency. However, the operative phrase there is "if I feel confident" which I normally don't. I second guess myself. And that trait could make me about the worst leader in particular situations.

3. Again, it depends on the situation as to whether I'm aggressive or not. For the most part, because I'm so insecure, I'm incredibly passive outwardly and afraid to express what I'm actually thinking. With people I know well or in situations I am familiar with, I can be too aggressive. My ENFP sister cannot stand it when I approach what she considers to be too aggressive. And there are times that I am too annoyed with incompetence to care how I come across. There are also times I just do not notice how harsh something I said or did was because I didn't intend it that way.

4. Hm.. important distinction here. I do not want to control others. I want things to run smoothly. I would prefer people take care of it themselves. But if I need to step in to make sure something is done (or done correctly), I do not hesitate to do so. And yes, I do get a kind of rush when I make things work out. I feel accomplished, satisfied, proud... And I like knowing that other people recognize that I am competent in at least some area when I have had to take leadership.

5. About the "really really blunt" thing... Yes, I am. Beating around the bush does nothing. And as mentioned before, sometimes I don't realize how something I'm saying is being taken. I don't try to be completely rude and insensitive.

6. Don't know how popular I am. I suppose I am in my friend group, but we're all nerdy programmers. Not sure that's saying much.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
870 Posts
ESTJ PERSONALITY (“THE EXECUTIVE”)[/B]
*cringe*

The manager. Of all ESTJs I have worked with that are on an executive level, it is toxic for the company. You need to be quickly decisive, open and have clear vision for the future. Departments or companies start to become stale, reactive rather than proactive. Leadership is different, it is about leading whom, and what the situation and task is.

As for ESTJs, I seem to meet them being polar opposites - the extreme unhealthy and ones you don't really notice. ESTJs are quite common so I've possibly not in my mind sorted some people out as that type. I think what happens is we read the stereotypes, and paint them all with the same brush. Yes there are stereotypical ESTJs out there, and I think we notice them more as we are aware of these stereotypes, and the unhealthy ones stick out because they're hated (you can say this for any other type though). Just the good ones sit under people's radar.

I think us ENTx are possibly the only types that can handle the unhealthy ESTJs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
452 Posts
A stereotypical ESTJ, at least the ones I met, were sporty people with skilled leadership. They were kind of aggressive, usually wanted to control others, and were really really blunt. Usually, they were very popular too. This is just based off my own experience and these were the stereotypes that they fitted :p Anyway, I'm not saying that all ESTJs are like that.
At least you recognise the bias. Not sure if you live in the US, but obsession with sports in the US is far higher than in many other countries. Leadership also manifests differently, depending on the prevailing culture.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,856 Posts
At least you recognise the bias. Not sure if you live in the US, but obsession with sports in the US is far higher than in many other countries. Leadership also manifests differently, depending on the prevailing culture.
Are you kidding? Have you seen the Europeans and their football? :D
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top