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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Advice needed--
The scene is, that, I have been made to believe the opposite of what I really saw, due to which I always had this indirect belief that what we experience is never truth/reality.
I have had (perfectionist+ helicopter) parents. So each step that I took in life whether it being "talking something or even thinking something" were constantly judged and the right steps were imposed upon me (by shaming ofcourse). <-- This isn't a problem. This becomes a problem when I also have to believe this truth that "they love me and want the best for me"
The two points added together-- (1) I am constantly criticized and the right ways imposed on me + (2) They love me and care and worry for me.

These two things added together conclude (in my mind) that- I am good for nothing, and whatever I do will never be enough and that whatever I see/believe about right/wrong doesn't even matter.
And, I am not valuable, still I am valued by them. I am a burden on them. I can't think of escaping as this will hurt them! Because its a fact that they love me to the fullest and truely, there's no doubt in that.

But indirectly it has led to a belief, or may be a habit, that whatever I will see in front of me, won't be real, and I have to believe the truth and theories which are believed to be true rather than seeing, experiencing and then believing in any truths. Basically what I will see won't be truth.
And this kind of habit, has made me a kind of robot (mentally) who only derives conclusions on other's beliefs and conclusions, using a perfect mathematical approach (means that if x is true and y is true then z is true...<-- this kind of approach) , and finally I am no wonder in a logical mess and had been stuck for many years also. Its like, I am unable to access my own feelings, I do feel them but my feelings are also imposed by me on myself that what I should be feeling/might be feeling. So my biggest puzzle is "me" myself.
My family provides and care for me more than other families do for their children. Comfort level is extremely higher but at the same time it seems that mental freedom is being compromised. But this is also true that they aren't aware of this and if I try to make them aware then they will reject it by saying that other families don't even care what happens with their child and so we should be grateful for having them and that we kids do things imperfectly and we might make a lot of mistakes that's why they have to indulge in our life" <-- that is what they say, but the fact is they themselves don't let us do things by ourselves and won't let us do or learn things ever.
I am unable to understand! I had reached and solved every angle of my situation and now it seems that this belief that "whatever I will see won't be true" <-- this belief is the real cause of all this mess. That's what I am able to see right now!

Due to my such experience, I have no problem going against my own comforts and doing the work which is right and is supposed to do. I have an extremely strong willpower. I had constantly struggled to be perfect or normal or acceptable every second of life and I had constantly been in this fear that things might go wrong. So, I am easily able to compromise my own feelings and comfort for the sake of doing what's right and necessary. That's a positive thing I got from my experience but my life is literally messed up to the point that my anxiety doesn't let me live properly!
 

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Although I don't know answer to this,but i ask id someone knows its solution then please help the OP.

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My parents aren't as extreme as yours, but they also tend toward being controlling and insisting they know best. It's part of our culture. It's got its positives as well as negatives. I know that with some of the more permissive parents that respect their children's independence, they don't go as far to secure their children's safety and achievement in life. I think the controlling style of parenting often comes from a place of too much fear and worry. They always worry something bad will happen, so they put in strict measures designed to minimize risk.

I realized early on that it wasn't going to be easy or good for my wellbeing to stay with my parents, as much as they cared for me. I was lucky enough that they let me go far away for my education. I was too far away for them to make every decision for me, and even when they made decisions I had the option of disobeying them with no immediate consequence. They couldn't decide what apartment I rented, what clothes I bought, who I befriended, what I ate for dinner, etc. And in the end, I think it was very good for my development. Although I made mistakes I developed a better sense of who I am, what I seek and what I'm capable of.

The problem in my culture is that people often live with their parents well into their adulthood, and this is considered normal or even expected. It has its positives, like saving on rent and food, but it's also not great for personal development especially if you have controlling parents. I think the best thing is to get away, at least for a couple years. Make an excuse and leave. Study abroad, get a job far away.

I found that once you've had room to breathe and had a period of self-realization, it's much easier to ignore what people think even if you're back living with them. I moved back in with my parents after I graduated and didn't have a job. I found a job and moved away eventually, but during the months I was staying with them I didn't have any trouble separating my wants from my parents' or moving toward my goals despite them interfering (with the best of intentions).

Of course your parents love you. Of course they care for you. But do they really know what's best for you? I seriously doubt it, human happiness is a complicated thing that I think our parents' generation by and large have not attained for themselves, let alone figured out how to attain for their children. Not to mention, the fact that they worry so much is a sign of their mental imbalance. Not saying they are crazy, but they do not have an objective view of things either.
 

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You have very interesting posts. That is value in this world. Never stop. Do not forget that.

Advice needed--
The scene is, that, I have been made to believe the opposite of what I really saw, due to which I always had this indirect belief that what we experience is never truth/reality.
It is of critical importance NOT to say things the way you just did.

Yous say, 'I have been made ...'. That is incorrect. No matter the difficulty of moral choice, YOU are the one that makes it or does not. You have influences in your life that wield unfair power over you. This is NOT UNUSUAL. It is typical. Nonetheless, you must transcend this trouble. You must own your decisions. ONLY your decisions make you anything. Will to power is real. Embrace blame. Blame is empowering. It means YOU can change your future, and it is correct.

I have had (perfectionist+ helicopter) parents. So each step that I took in life whether it being "talking something or even thinking something" were constantly judged and the right steps were imposed upon me (by shaming ofcourse). <-- This isn't a problem.
I agree that shaming is not a problem. It is usually a wise course of action indeed. Still, the balance of shaming is endearing love, a nurturing feeling, that is often missing in cold fear oriented judgmental parents. Thsi reassuring warmth is what connects us back to love and ourselves and desire. If it is missing, then great psychological harm can be caused by continual shame and order.

This becomes a problem when I also have to believe this truth that "they love me and want the best for me"

You say oddly, 'I also have to believe ...'. You do not, but, indeed your should. But this belief and the trap it lays for you is not relevant. What is relevant is your understanding that even though someone WANTS something, which is only chaotic desire, it is critical that HOW they go about obtaining these wants is something that should be wise. Again, if they tore you down in terms of what was wrong, but did not reaffirm your humanity and worthiness at each step, the HOW was wrong, immoral, and damaging.

Still, again remember, YOU must observe these things, YOU must feel them. YOU must stand to them and defend your sanity and integrity, your happiness. No one else can. It is only a choice, a decision.

The two points added together-- (1) I am constantly criticized and the right ways imposed on me + (2) They love me and care and worry for me.
There is no contradiction in these two points. If you focus on these two points AS IF there is a contradiction, you will be in error.

The truth is that DESPITE the truth of those two points it is critical that you feel loved and worthy. That HOW, for them, may have failed, seems to have failed. But also, it is even MORE critical that despite any and all failures by them, YOU pick yourself up, source yourself in worthy love, and stand against all the wrongs done to you. This is the ONLY proper path (for anyone).

These two things added together conclude (in my mind) that- I am good for nothing, and whatever I do will never be enough and that whatever I see/believe about right/wrong doesn't even matter.
It is likely that you are a desire type. When I say that I mean the Enneagram, enneatypes 2, 3, and 4. Desire is afflicted with a trouble. That trouble is that desire makes you feel worthless. If you want something, because of that truth, the reflection is that you are not sufficient unto yourself. This is very damning. But the source is the self. It is a bad choice.

The way to mitigate desire is twofold. Both anger and fear work to restrain desire. Anger demands that you are worthy on your own, no matter what. Anger is correct. Fear demands that you not take on desires that will weaken you or harm you. Fear is correct. If you over-express desire, and that is likely given your statements, then you need to increase your fear and anger to balance your desire. You need to doubt and be angry at your desires.

You desire to have had more loving and warm parents. Get over it. That didn't happen. They do still love you, even if they also hate you. They still love you, even if they judge you harshly. The order part of love from fear is inclusive of perfection and judgment. This was over stressed by your parents. Yet and still, this is a part of love, of that which is GOOD. They just did not balance well, and most people do not. Balance is wisdom and wisdom is the rarest trait of all.

And, I am not valuable, still I am valued by them. I am a burden on them. I can't think of escaping as this will hurt them! Because its a fact that they love me to the fullest and truely, there's no doubt in that.
You ARE valuable. You are worthy inherently. It is immoral to claim that you are not worthy. Stop doing that. Repetition of immoral claims about the self is damaging. You must or should choose to be more positive, but not stupidly positive. Accept blame. Own your troubles and in the owning of them realize that doing so is functionally worthy. It is a start. Keep choosing one little thing to improve about yourself and your situation. Stick to it. Beware of desire as it will distract you. It will say, since you are already unworthy, one more cookie will not matter. That cookie will kill you. Because it will be a thousand cookies. All desire is this way, addiction.

There is still moral desire. What form does it take? Imagining is desire. Seeing the self you are, but have not yet become. This is moral. Imagining things through that are bad in order to sense that they are bad is also moral. That is the purpose of simulation, imagination. Playing games of pretense is not moral. 'Winning', 'Dwelling on emotions', 'Wallowing in identity, supposed authenticity', and even 'debasing yourself to others in order to get what you want by transaction'; all of these, are immoral aims of desire.

But indirectly it has led to a belief, or may be a habit, that whatever I will see in front of me, won't be real, and I have to believe the truth and theories which are believed to be true rather than seeing, experiencing and then believing in any truths. Basically what I will see won't be truth.
This disconnect and disbelief is the encroachment of non-being. Since you are desire side, you are probably a 4, but you might also be a 5 with a 4 wing. Either is an anger infused type that has the withdrawn characteristic. That means a retreat from reality itself, from being, from essence. You are thus effectively low on action, low on being. You must or should choose to address that.

For you action is critical and I do mean physical action. You are too much in your head and living in the delusional past and the delusional future. You need to focus on the now. Stay present. Breathe. Literally go to a batting cage and hit balls. It DOES NOT matter how good you are at it. You need physical connection to ground you back to reality. Swim. Swimming is amazing for physical connection. Hike in nature. Listen to the sounds around you. Sensory input can connect you. You also need touch. Make yourself offer hugs, even if you hate them. Learn to love them. Get a massage if you dare. Give a massage is even better. Reconnect to the physical you in the now. Stay with it. This will always be a weak spot for you. You need to work on anger as positive.

And this kind of habit, has made me a kind of robot (mentally) who only derives conclusions on other's beliefs and conclusions, using a perfect mathematical approach (means that if x is true and y is true then z is true...<-- this kind of approach) , and finally I am no wonder in a logical mess and had been stuck for many years also.
So this is the orderly pattern of fear, locking you into the past and delusional patterns. Yes, these patterns are there, but improperly imperfectly remembered or performed.

This again is over expression. It is analysis paralysis, fear prisons of order. You must learn to deny this pattern in yourself, first entirely, to gain control. Anger is the path again. Be mad that you are hiding from life by calculation.

Logic is a prison that is cold and leads to death.

All thought, all pattern matching, all logic, is ONLY fear.

Its like, I am unable to access my own feelings, I do feel them but my feelings are also imposed by me on myself that what I should be feeling/might be feeling. So my biggest puzzle is "me" myself.
Exactly, the prison of order of your parent's imposition has trapped you into shoulds which must be pre-calculated. But it is still only you choosing to do this. You and you alone must decide to stop, to release your animal and that without being just a beast or going too far overboard as most people do. Sensing freedom, most people drink of desire too much. They become fat and self-indulgent, ruining their bodies, minds, and spirit. Anger is the demand for self sufficiency. Anger is compassion for your own body, mind, and spirit (and everyone else's also). Compassion IS anger.

My family provides and care for me more than other families do for their children. Comfort level is extremely higher but at the same time it seems that mental freedom is being compromised.
As long as you orderly conform you are cared for. Test the limits. Use anger and disobey. Explore. Be physical. Take yoga. Break the prison of order. Deny perfection is necessary (but secretly continue to aim at it). One of the follies of desire is rubbing yourself in darkness to avoid the moral duty of aiming at perfection. No one can get to perfect, but trying is required (to be GOOD).

But this is also true that they aren't aware of this and if I try to make them aware then they will reject it by saying that other families don't even care what happens with their child and so we should be grateful for having them and that we kids do things imperfectly and we might make a lot of mistakes that's why they have to indulge in our life" <-- that is what they say, but the fact is they themselves don't let us do things by ourselves and won't let us do or learn things ever.
This is the failure of order and over protection. If you cannot risk and explore you cannot earn wisdom for yourself. This is the failure of Pragmatism (fear) which I call 'intending to fail'. They aim for 7 of 10 on the target because that is 'doable'. Never risk freedom, never try for more! They are cowards, ultimately. We all are in part, but conservatives and Pragmatists are more so than others. Desire and liberal types are self-indulgent idiots more so than others. And anger types, like me are brutally honest and pain inducing more so than others.

I am unable to understand! I had reached and solved every angle of my situation and now it seems that this belief that "whatever I will see won't be true" <-- this belief is the real cause of all this mess. That's what I am able to see right now!
Your belief is amazing! It's actually kind of true. We live amid delusional subjective viewpoints. That is OK. Fear and desire are both delusional. But they are tools of morality and the GOOD. Anger is honest but it can be too brutal and painful or clueless if fear and desire do not temper it. All three emotions must work together for the GOOD.

Due to my such experience, I have no problem going against my own comforts and doing the work which is right and is supposed to do. I have an extremely strong willpower. I had constantly struggled to be perfect or normal or acceptable every second of life and I had constantly been in this fear that things might go wrong. So, I am easily able to compromise my own feelings and comfort for the sake of doing what's right and necessary. That's a positive thing I got from my experience but my life is literally messed up to the point that my anxiety doesn't let me live properly!
You must get in touch with your desire and freedom. But again watch out for the worthlessness that will boomerang on you. I have explained it. But use your anger to demand that you also can be happy, can get some reasonable things you want and GOOD things. Demand to accept RISK. That is being alive. Without suffering you cannot earn wisdom and wisdom is the only goal of life.

I hope that helps! Good luck, regardless!
 
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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
@series0 , can't thank you enough for your time that you put and the quality of your message, and most importantly the depth with which you tried to understand my situation. I had been getting a lot of revelations since I read the message and its been only a day since I read the message, a lot of revelations, a lot of learnings, a lot of new possibilities, a lot of 'knowledge about myself' , and overall a lot of sense of reality and my connection to the physical world.... Thank you for all these gifts.

Btw, I would still like to correct (sorry for that, can't stop the urge to correct) that, I had been blaming myself consistently for the whole life, and had been blaming myself for not understanding parents properly and a lot of other things in my life, because I always had the mentality that "It's my responsibility to correct my life" but this thing really didn't work, I used to blame and be strict on myself for a lot of things, even for my own "wrong" feelings too, and still I am not able to get myself out of this behaviour. Its only from the past year that I am not blaming myself and I am blaming other things and people of my life.
Another thing, I think that I haven't trusted my intuition enough.
The reality of my house is, that my grandmom is a 'toxic narcissist' which made my father this way and my maternal grandmom was a 'uncaring, selfish and lazy mother' due to which my mom from the childhood herself grew up like a mother to her own mother, doing all the adult stuff and work, and raising all the other kids of the family.
My dad's description fits best to a cerebral narcissist.
My mom, is just a people pleaser and a perfectionist who demands pure perfection from her kids.
When I used to be suicidal because of my dad, it was my mom who used to bring me out of those thoughts.
Complicated story it is! I know.
I want help but I seriously don't know what to ask, I had dragged my problems from a lot of years to the extent that it finally made my brain stop working properly (meaning that I couldn't process daily things and couldn't think, it was a brain fog combined with mental stuckness). I am getting over that stuff gradually and being better at myself and able to use my brain for my studies.

One important realization I had made, was that "what I feel is right" vs "what I know is right from past experience as well as from logically deriving"/ has a lot of difference. And with your help I got to know that "logically calculating the right + from past experiences" is only my fear, and fear brings logic. I don't trust my intuition enough.

The case with me is, that when I know what is the right thing, even if its in my favour or not and even if it comforts me or not,.. i can walk on that path, without any complain and without a single pain. But if I don't know the correct "right" and I walk the wrong path, then it puts me in the trouble, the trouble which I faced in the form of my brain fog, for such a long time, approximately 3-4 years.

I thank you, again, for your help :)

EDIT: Physically, I had already disobeyed and conveyed to my parents that they are wrong, from 2 years, I am against my parents. But mentally I am not over this. Mentally I am still that same girl.
 

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@series0 , can't thank you enough for your time that you put and the quality of your message, and most importantly the depth with which you tried to understand my situation. I had been getting a lot of revelations since I read the message and its been only a day since I read the message, a lot of revelations, a lot of learnings, a lot of new possibilities, a lot of 'knowledge about myself' , and overall a lot of sense of reality and my connection to the physical world.... Thank you for all these gifts.
Thank you so very much for understanding and caring enough to read my lengthy reply. I know I can be verbose, but these sticky wickets people get into are not easy to unravel, and many presupposed solutions are only causing more troubles, adding fuel to the flame.

The truth NEVER changes. The truth will therefore wait on you and your earning of wisdom. You have time. Take it and choose to be happy.

Btw, I would still like to correct (sorry for that, can't stop the urge to correct) that, I had been blaming myself consistently for the whole life, and had been blaming myself for not understanding parents properly and a lot of other things in my life, because I always had the mentality that "It's my responsibility to correct my life" but this thing really didn't work, I used to blame and be strict on myself for a lot of things, even for my own "wrong" feelings too, and still I am not able to get myself out of this behaviour. Its only from the past year that I am not blaming myself and I am blaming other things and people of my life.
So in this, you reveal a perfectionist nature, enneatype 1. This judgment is too constant, too all encompassing. You deny in this the purpose of intent. Intent is the point of morality. The word that explains this is Deontology, - Emmanuel Kant. The opposing and incorrect philosophy is called consequentialism or utilitarianism. These AFTER THE FACT philosophies are useful, but only AFTER Deontology in importance.

Why do I say this?

I say this because your intent matters, like your parents. And I LOVE it that you pursue perfection, but that is tricky.

What is the balm to prefectionism? Forgiveness is that balm. Get dirty and accept your failures. OCD? Always make a tiny mess amid any perfection. This is a reminder for you to forgive. Forgive yourself. Forgive others. If you worry that you are too forgiving, remember, no one, you included, is perfect. You are NOT too forgiving. You are hard on yourself, and probably others although you do not see this part yet.

Another thing, I think that I haven't trusted my intuition enough.
I agree. Intuition is anger, is presence, is being present. Get in touch with it. Try trusting it. Learn to dance.

The reality of my house is, that my grandmom is a 'toxic narcissist' which made my father this way and my maternal grandmom was a 'uncaring, selfish and lazy mother' due to which my mom from the childhood herself grew up like a mother to her own mother, doing all the adult stuff and work, and raising all the other kids of the family.
This is a tricky thing for me to say to you now. But it is true. No one is toxic to the wise. The wise see each failure and they are calm. They can patiently point out the type of the failure and laugh when bile is returned to them, because they expected it and feel the pain of the person spewing the bile.

Narcissism is the unreasonable promotion of the self as an addiction. Anger says there is no need to promote that which is worthy inherently. So you ask of a narcissist, why is it that you feel so unworthy that you need this self promotion? What is this giddy desire? Has it ever really returned you any happiness? Or has it rotted your will and the patience of those around you?

Your mother has suffered greatly at her own mother's hand. But she chose it. This unreasonable sacrifice is typical of enneatype 2. They give and they give. Anger says, you to are worthy. Put the mask on your own face before you help your child. Or you are NOT helping the child.

My dad's description fits best to a cerebral narcissist.
Same advice. The reckless pursuit of pleasure and joy is an addiction. It denies the calm. Genuine happiness is joyful amid calm. It is not needy.

My mom, is just a people pleaser and a perfectionist who demands pure perfection from her kids.
She could benefit from the one mess strategy. No one can be perfect and the strain is too great. Relieve it with intentional humor in small messes. The fact that it is intentional means it is NOT a mistake, so, it is still right even though it is not perfect.

This is a special take on the Cajun concept of Lagniappe, which I love. 'A little something extra', becomes 'a little something messy'. It is a way to calm that foolishness. It is a way to prevent perfectionism.

When I used to be suicidal because of my dad, it was my mom who used to bring me out of those thoughts.
her sacrifice is noble. But you can see, this could be too much on her also. So far you have not said that her issue is too much, over-expressed really. I hope it is not.

Suicide is typical of the type 4, and 7s have big issues with it as well. The tragic romantic wallows in emotion. That is not a wise path and clearly, it can kill you.

Complicated story it is! I know.
They are all wonderful and complicated stories!

I want help but I seriously don't know what to ask, I had dragged my problems from a lot of years to the extent that it finally made my brain stop working properly (meaning that I couldn't process daily things and couldn't think, it was a brain fog combined with mental stuckness). I am getting over that stuff gradually and being better at myself and able to use my brain for my studies.
Study is very hard. It requires will, yes, but also, as the person matures a very strong resistance to distraction, desire. When life is so plentiful and prosperous, desire becomes deadly to progress. This is a terribly slippery slope.

One important realization I had made, was that "what I feel is right" vs "what I know is right from past experience as well as from logically deriving"/ has a lot of difference. And with your help I got to know that "logically calculating the right + from past experiences" is only my fear, and fear brings logic. I don't trust my intuition enough.
Well, yes. And 'feel' is often both anger and desire. 'Feel' is not usually used in conjunction with fear's use of logic and thought. But those ARE feelings. So that has always been wrong.

You are right to recognize and stay open to all three paths, anger, fear, and desire. Be mindful of when each is missing in any equation. That is how to judge.

The case with me is, that when I know what is the right thing, even if its in my favour or not and even if it comforts me or not,.. i can walk on that path, without any complain and without a single pain. But if I don't know the correct "right" and I walk the wrong path, then it puts me in the trouble, the trouble which I faced in the form of my brain fog, for such a long time, approximately 3-4 years.
Ah. Well you must start to decide that this so-called wrong path is wise. That is to say, knowing is not correct. The wise and aware do not know. They think and they wish and they calculate. It is always a war. That is t he truth of wisdom and moral duty and this burning way to live is BETTER than otherwise. It is not lazy. It is not cowardice. It is not self-indulgent. It is wise. It is the way to being the MOST alive, and the MOST happy.

I thank you, again, for your help :)
You are eternally welcome. Go get it!

EDIT: Physically, I had already disobeyed and conveyed to my parents that they are wrong, from 2 years, I am against my parents. But mentally I am not over this. Mentally I am still that same girl.
No, you are not. You say here things that show you are growing. More!

But remember amid the saying how they are wrong to anneal this with saying how they are right and what value they have to you. Keep them in love circle.
 
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@series0 , Thank you, so grateful for your wisdom and knowledge. The kind of inner stability I have now, I haven't experienced it before.
:)
 

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@series0 , Thank you, so grateful for your wisdom and knowledge. The kind of inner stability I have now, I haven't experienced it before.
:)
I love to hear that and I am honored to have helped.

Now the hard work begins. Sticking firm to your change within yourself. Being careful that desire and fear are your informants, and not your masters. Use your anger! Stay GOOD, and be happy!
 
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