[aconite]

okay, guys...

The thread is mainly about my heart fix and instinctual stacking, but any feedback on what I could be is appreciated.

As far as I understand, the heart fix is how I deal with my image and shame. I'm not naturally in touch with either: I do pretty much what I want and I hardly ever care how I am seen - and I'm quite shameless as well. Almost always I'm disconnected from that part of me; I don't really "feel" emotions, I tend to process them through the lens of logic (of course, I can be irrational, but this is an exception rather than a rule). Hey, I don't even know what to ask myself in order to determine the heart fix

I'm sure 2 is not my heart fix. At first I dismissed a possibility of having 3 fix, but now I realise there's more Three in me than I previously thought. I'm not sure, though, if it's a matter of 3 fix, 4w3 fix, or just a side effect of mistaking my 7 traits for 3 traits. Moreover, if my tritype was 378, I'd be triple assertive - and I don't think I am.

4 is still a possibility, the most likely one, although I'm undecided between 4w3 and 4w5. I can relate a bit more to 4w5 descriptions, FWIW, but since I'm definitely not a core Four, it's kind of hard to decide. I'm fascinated by Fours, but mostly because their attitude is completely different from mine.

My instincts, then: no doubt the social instinct is my last. At first I thought I'm sp/sx, now I'm considering the possibility of sx/sp. While I need independence like I need air, I can't really relate to wanting comfort, material security, a long-term relationship and /or family (and these appear frequently in various descriptions of self-pres instinct). Quite the contrary; I need intensity and variety. When it comes to love and sex, the ideal way would be to have several different lovers and pick them depending on my mood. However, I don't feel a need for intimacy; I'm fine with being single.

Thanks in advance, feel free to share your thoughts. I like brainstorming.

 

[Lost in Oblivion]

The question is not how much you feel but rather how exactly you feel. If you're a core head type, you'll probably be experiencing the feeling triad less often.

If you're definitely not a core 4 or 2, wouldn't that logically leave 3? But let's regress back to what I first said. When you experience that feeling triad - when you experience shame - from which core is it coming from? 4s feel shame because they haven't lived up to their own ideal; 3s feel shame because they haven't lived up to their own ideal as it is determined by others.

Having a 3-fix myself, I still feel a bit sucky when people make jokes about how I look like Taylor Lautner and then they get to the whole, "so do you have a 6-pack too?" portion. xP However, my fix is 3w2 so it's a bit different...3w4 is a bit more elitist, and reminds me of a typical over-compensator - "I may not have that six-pack, but look what else I have!" I think 3w2 is more adaptive to what other people want from them, but can rub it in other people's faces when it's achieved.

As for your instincts, check out this: The Enneagram Blogspot: Instinctual Variant Stackings

sx/sp gives me a more wildly intense impression than sp/sx. sp/sx is a very calm intensity; you get the impression that it's controlled. sx/sp is calm, but bursts with intensity.

It's kind of hard to give you something with the information given but I hope this gave a little bit of brainfood.

 

[aconite]

If you're definitely not a core 4 or 2, wouldn't that logically leave 3?

I'm a 7, that much I've determined, but 4 can be my heart fix. I'd say it's definitely not 2w1 or 2w3 or 3w2; 2 is the type I relate to the least.

When you experience that feeling triad - when you experience shame - from which core is it coming from? 4s feel shame because they haven't lived up to their own ideal; 3s feel shame because they haven't lived up to their own ideal as it is determined by others.

I like being admired, true, but my ideals are more determined by myself than others. To quote Kurt Cobain, I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not - but I would be a lie if I wrote that I'd never cared about other people's opinions, especially when I'd been a teenager. However, my image back then was more of the anti-conformist than conformist variety; I never wanted to be a part of the crowd and peer pressure didn't affect me much. There was a twisted sense of pride rooted in a feeling of being different, misunderstood etc. (but it might have been an effect of a typical teenage angst rather than 4 fix ). Now I'm an adult, more comfortable with who I am, and I have no compulsive need to be different from everyone else - but I need to be true to myself. I do things I love, and if anyone has a problem with it... well, it's their problem, not mine, isn't it?

It's really hard for me to think about a time when I felt ashamed (I'm, well, cocky. Sometimes too cocky for my own good). Shame, to me, is usually connected to my performance. I need to exceed my personal best every time I do something. A few years ago I talked to a psychologist, who wanted also to hear my parents' opinion on my childhood. They both stated that I'd been an extremely ambitious kid, always striving to be the best. And I felt ashamed when I didn't succeed; I remember crying when I got a B for the first time. Of course, the psychologist suspected that my parents had expected top performance from me, but it hadn't been the case. I wanted it on my own volition. However, I'm not entirely sure if it's a sing of having 3 in my tritype: I liked recognition for my achievements, but I didn't need it very badly. The feeling that I'd succeeded was more important than letting the world know. I wanted top grades because I valued my intelligence, creativity and ingenuity. I still do (however, this might be more connected to my MBTI type).

Right now, I suspect I'd feel ashamed if someone knowledgeable criticised my artwork/writing/any kind of creative work very harshly. I know it's not perfect, I strive to improve it every single day, and this is probably the only area where I'm really sensitive and vulnerable. I'd be ashamed especially if there were any glaring mistakes I hadn't noticed previously.

However, my fix is 3w2 so it's a bit different...3w4 is a bit more elitist, and reminds me of a typical over-compensator - "I may not have that six-pack, but look what else I have!" I think 3w2 is more adaptive to what other people want from them, but can rub it in other people's faces when it's achieved.

If my heart fix is 3, I'm way more 3w4 than 3w2

sx/sp gives me a more wildly intense impression than sp/sx. sp/sx is a very calm intensity; you get the impression that it's controlled. sx/sp is calm, but bursts with intensity

At first I thought I'm sp/sx, because I've always been a lone force, quite calm and balanced on the outside; definitely not a typical Duracell bunny 7 stereotype. I'm comfortable with being single and I don't need to be in a relationship. However, material comfort, food, health and money tend to be the least of my concerns. I can spend 12 hours in row drawing, forgetting about eating at all. OTOH, I can relate to the passion coming from the sexual instinct, but I've always been more of an intellectual person and therefore my passion is directed more towards ideas, art, abstract matters than relationships. Or adrenaline rush.

I think my sx instinct might be somewhat skewed because my past relationships weren't very healthy. I wasn't very healthy, to begin with; it might have left me more resentful towards love than I'd like ideally to be.

Thanks for your feedback!

 

[Dark Romantic]

I like being admired, true, but my ideals are more determined by myself than others. To quote Kurt Cobain, I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not - but I would be a lie if I wrote that I'd never cared about other people's opinions, especially when I'd been a teenager. However, my image back then was more of the anti-conformist than conformist variety; I never wanted to be a part of the crowd and peer pressure didn't affect me much. There was a twisted sense of pride rooted in a feeling of being different, misunderstood etc. (but it might have been an effect of a typical teenage angst rather than 4 fix ). Now I'm an adult, more comfortable with who I am, and I have no compulsive need to be different from everyone else - but I need to be true to myself. I do things I love, and if anyone has a problem with it... well, it's their problem, not mine, isn't it?

It's really hard for me to think about a time when I felt ashamed (I'm, well, cocky. Sometimes too cocky for my own good). Shame, to me, is usually connected to my performance. I need to exceed my personal best every time I do something. A few years ago I talked to a psychologist, who wanted also to hear my parents' opinion on my childhood. They both stated that I'd been an extremely ambitious kid, always striving to be the best. And I felt ashamed when I didn't succeed; I remember crying when I got a B for the first time. Of course, the psychologist suspected that my parents had expected top performance from me, but it hadn't been the case. I wanted it on my own volition. However, I'm not entirely sure if it's a sing of having 3 in my tritype: I liked recognition for my achievements, but I didn't need it very badly. The feeling that I'd succeeded was more important than letting the world know. I wanted top grades because I valued my intelligence, creativity and ingenuity. I still do (however, this might be more connected to my MBTI type).

Right now, I suspect I'd feel ashamed if someone knowledgeable criticised my artwork/writing/any kind of creative work very harshly. I know it's not perfect, I strive to improve it every single day, and this is probably the only area where I'm really sensitive and vulnerable. I'd be ashamed especially if there were any glaring mistakes I hadn't noticed previously.

Based on this, your heart fix is probably 4w3. You touched on a few things I've come to expect from 4-fixed sevens, including:

- A certain pride in being misunderstood
- An emphasis on achievement according to your own standard, evaluating the importance of a given task based on how close it is to the authentic expression of the true self, and thus, rejecting external judgment that doesn't fall into line with your true self
- Authenticity before status, though still desiring both.

I say w3 over w5, because the fourlike traits you described have a bit of the push-pull between the desire to withdraw into the self, and the desire for prominence in the world at large that I associate with the 4w3.

At first I thought I'm sp/sx, because I've always been a lone force, quite calm and balanced on the outside; definitely not a typical Duracell bunny 7 stereotype. I'm comfortable with being single and I don't need to be in a relationship. However, material comfort, food, health and money tend to be the least of my concerns. I can spend 12 hours in row drawing, forgetting about eating at all. OTOH, I can relate to the passion coming from the sexual instinct, but I've always been more of an intellectual person and therefore my passion is directed more towards ideas, art, abstract matters than relationships. Or adrenaline rush.

I think my sx instinct might be somewhat skewed because my past relationships weren't very healthy. I wasn't very healthy, to begin with; it might have left me more resentful towards love than I'd like ideally to be.

Thanks for your feedback!

What makes you think you're So-last?

 

[aconite]

You touched on a few things I've come to expect from 4-fixed sevens, including:

- A certain pride in being misunderstood
- An emphasis on achievement according to your own standard, evaluating the importance of a given task based on how close it is to the authentic expression of the true self, and thus, rejecting external judgment that doesn't fall into line with your true self
- Authenticity before status, though still desiring both.

Thank you. It makes sense.

I say w3 over w5, because the fourlike traits you described have a bit of the push-pull between the desire to withdraw into the self, and the desire for prominence in the world at large that I associate with the 4w3.

I can relate to the push-pull, yes. However, I can see a good portion of detachment in my attitude; I prefer to observe than engage myself. I wouldn't say I'm flashy, and in fact, in most tests I get a 5w4 result (which is inaccurate, of course). Sometimes I feel I look at the world through a one-way mirror.

What makes you think you're So-last?

I can relate more to Sp and Sx than So. I prefer one-to-one conversation to a group setting, and I tend not to care about the world as a whole, but rather about myself and people closest to me. I don't want to sacrifice myself, I'm not interested in fitting in, I don't concern myself with social/group hierarchy. In fact, when I read the 7 descriptions for the first time, I thought: "It can't be me! I'm not gregarous, social, extremely extroverted, life of the party etc." (now I know there's much more to 7 than that, but still this is the part I can't relate to). I think I'm calmer and more introverted than an average 7 - people tell me I seem cold, aloof and intimidating. And the description of a social instinct blind spot is disturbingly accurate:

Soc blind spot - finds it hard to concern self with another’s agenda, dismissive. They may feel that connecting socially will cost them something and consider interactions to be draining. Would rather act as a lone force, feeling that they don't need others and others don't need them. Fear of being emotionally crippled, being unable to connect with people, self-conscious of being socially ungracious. It’s hard to take in the gifts and generosity of others. One doesn’t let oneself try to interact or find out. Projected fear - if I ignore others, they will ignore me. There’s an expectation of humiliation. A desire not to impose self on people in fear of not being wanted or being klutzy.

Why, do you think I'm not So-last?

If I remember correctly, your gut fix is 8, isn't it? Would you mind telling me how do you experience it? I thought my gut is 8w7, but now I'm not so sure.

 

[Dark Romantic]

I can relate to the push-pull, yes. However, I can see a good portion of detachment in my attitude; I prefer to observe than engage myself. I wouldn't say I'm flashy, and in fact, in most tests I get a 5w4 result (which is inaccurate, of course). Sometimes I feel I look at the world through a one-way mirror.

Interesting... we'll come back to this, then. I'd still put my money on 4w3, but you're almost certainly 4-fixed. Follow this link, compare the descriptions of both, and tell me what you think.

I can relate more to Sp and Sx than So. I prefer one-to-one conversation to a group setting, and I tend not to care about the world as a whole, but rather about myself and people closest to me. I don't want to sacrifice myself, I'm not interested in fitting in, I don't concern myself with social/group hierarchy. In fact, when I read the 7 descriptions for the first time, I thought: "It can't be me! I'm not gregarous, social, extremely extroverted, life of the party etc." (now I know there's much more to 7 than that, but still this is the part I can't relate to). I think I'm calmer and more introverted than an average 7 - people tell me I seem cold, aloof and intimidating. And the description of a social instinct blind spot is disturbingly accurate:

Fair enough. I think you sound Sp/Sx, personally. Check out this link (which I got by following yours), if you want more info on how to figure out your stacking.

Why, do you think I'm not So-last?

Nah, I just wanted to see why you thought you weren't. Best not to eliminate any possibilities before they've been explored, eh?

If I remember correctly, your gut fix is 8, isn't it? Would you mind telling me how do you experience it? I thought my gut is 8w7, but now I'm not so sure.

I think my gut fix mainly comes out under stress, but I'd say it adds greater willpower, fortitude, and determination. If taking things lightly and playfully doesn't work, I'll then become frustrated and start to push, push, push, until the thing in my way will yield (that's assuming, of course, there isn't something better somewhere else). So, I'll start to act more like an 8w7 if I can't get my way doing my usual thing.

 

[aconite]

Interesting... we'll come back to this, then. I'd still put my money on 4w3, but you're almost certainly 4-fixed. Follow this link, compare the descriptions of both, and tell me what you think.

Frankly, I can relate more to the 4w5 description. There's an air of poise, entitlement and elitism surrounding 4w3, and I want to be as free of pretense as possible. The phrase about being a "part of a special class of people with secret powers" sounds even a bit funny. I don't like being a part of anything, I want to be myself, an autonomous and independent being first and foremost. I'm somehow proud of being different. When I read a description of a group I belong to, be it a personality type, a nationality, anything, my first impulse is to point "hey, this is inaccurate, and here's why". My self-image is the darkest part of my personality; I feel flawed, jaded, and not optimistic at all (kind of ironic, since as a 7 I'm "supposed" to be optimistic). The world is full of pain, suffering, malicious intent and inequality - however, I believe I will prevail.

Fair enough. I think you sound Sp/Sx, personally. Check out this link (which I got by following yours), if you want more info on how to figure out your stacking.

Thank you.

Syn-flow: sp->so->sx->sp
Stackings involved: sp/so-->so/sx-->sx/sp-->sp/so
Direction: Compelled toward people. Acting upon and with others as a born insider i.e.- deeply human.

Contra-flow: sp->sx->so->sp
Stackings involved: sp/sx-->sx/so-->so/sp-->sp/sx
Direction: Compelled against people. Seething belligerent outsiders; 'antisocial', provoking, reverse-flow change catalysts. In some profound sense, rejecting the human condition, their own and/or that of others.

I think I'm contra-flow, then, and that seems to imply sp/sx rather than sx/sp. Following the thread, I found another article, where the three instincts are interpreted as follows:

1) The instinct taken in its most literal sense.
2) The instinct taken in an abstract sense.
3) This instinct remains dormant, or at least not a concern to the person in question.
(snip)
A person whose primary instinct is SP, for example, will be concerned with nutrition, comfort (e.g. they may be acutely aware of a change in temperature), money, etc. A person whose primary instinct is SO will be interested in personal interaction. A person whose primary instinct is SX will be interested in physical gratification, such as confectionary foods, sex, sports, etc. However, a person whose secondary (abstract) instinct is SP may be concerned with fame, a secondary SO may be concerned with social science (structures, the social in the abstract), and a secondary SX may find their gratification in music, intellectual theories, or pyromania, etc.
It should also be noted that as a person’s mental health deteriorates, their symptoms will often take the form of a perversion of their primary instinct. For example, a SP/SX may tend toward eating too much or too little.

If this is indeed the case, all my instincts are secondary
Sp: I'm not very interested in nutrition, comfort and money, but a prospect of fame is intriguing.
Sx: Physical gratification is beneath me Okay, I like sex, but who doesn't? I prefer music and intellectual theories to food and sports.
So: I prefer to think about the society in abstract therms rather than interact with people directly, but then again, it's more connected to my MBTI type, I think.
I don't know how reliable is the source, though, given that the article contains also a laughably stereotypical statement: "To illustrate, the 8-7 and 7-8 occasionally have an attraction toward art and/or knowledge, tendencies belonging to the 4 and 5, respectively."

sp-first may dream about having the ideal living abode, sx-first - an ideal mate, soulmate type of relationship

Nah, I can live anywhere. I'm ambivalent about the second part. It would be nice, but is it a dream? Not really.

The thing is that I'm very abstract, disconnected from my physical self, and the instincts seem to reflect the most basic drives.

Nah, I just wanted to see why you thought you weren't. Best not to eliminate any possibilities before they've been explored, eh?

Spoken like a true ENTP!

I think my gut fix mainly comes out under stress, but I'd say it adds greater willpower, fortitude, and determination. If taking things lightly and playfully doesn't work, I'll then become frustrated and start to push, push, push, until the thing in my way will yield (that's assuming, of course, there isn't something better somewhere else). So, I'll start to act more like an 8w7 if I can't get my way doing my usual thing.

OK, makes sense. At the very beginning I thought my gut fix is 9, because I liked the description. Live and let live, content with life, that kind of thing. After reading more in-depth descriptions, though, I realised there's very little 9 in me. I am intense, stormy, and I can be very forceful if I can't get something I want. I respect others' boundaries if they respect mine, although in a relationship I'm really domineering. I tend to idealise my partners/lovers at first, I love falling in love, but I have no patience for a longer relationship. And I tend to become quickly bored, too.

 

[Dark Romantic]

Frankly, I can relate more to the 4w5 description. There's an air of poise, entitlement and elitism surrounding 4w3, and I want to be as free of pretense as possible. The phrase about being a "part of a special class of people with secret powers" sounds even a bit funny. I don't like being a part of anything, I want to be myself, an autonomous and independent being first and foremost. I'm somehow proud of being different. When I read a description of a group I belong to, be it a personality type, a nationality, anything, my first impulse is to point "hey, this is inaccurate, and here's why". My self-image is the darkest part of my personality; I feel flawed, jaded, and not optimistic at all (kind of ironic, since as a 7 I'm "supposed" to be optimistic). The world is full of pain, suffering, malicious intent and inequality - however, I believe I will prevail.

What is it about the 4w5 description that stood out the most to you? What about the 4w3?

I think I'm contra-flow, then, and that seems to imply sp/sx rather than sx/sp. Following the thread, I found another article, where the three instincts are interpreted as follows:

ROFL... I was debating whether or not I should send you that link. Good to see you followed it on your own. :wink:

If this is indeed the case, all my instincts are secondary
Sp: I'm not very interested in nutrition, comfort and money, but a prospect of fame is intriguing.
Sx: Physical gratification is beneath me Okay, I like sex, but who doesn't? I prefer music and intellectual theories to food and sports.
So: I prefer to think about the society in abstract therms rather than interact with people directly, but then again, it's more connected to my MBTI type, I think.

Based on that description, I'd say you're more likely to be Sx-primary, actually. In fact, you've described Sx in the most concrete terms (You're drawn to ideas, music, intellectual pursuits which engage your mind and give it the charge you're looking for. This is a trait many Sx-doms share, actually, especially the ENxP sevens), Sp as more abstract (Sp-primaries are largely concerned with food, material comfort, finances, and other things which I personally find difficult to pay attention to for long, these don't seem to be a concern for you), and you seem to pay very little heed to So (So isn't just concerned with society, by the way; So is the instinct that has to do with interpersonal relations in general. It's concerned with your place in the group, establishing connections with the people around you, and the health and well-being of the greater social environment). Based on this answer alone, I'd think you were Sx/Sp, not Sp/Sx.

Course, you could still be Sp/Sx, but Sx-first is something to consider.

This might be due to your present circumstances; you might be in a place where you don't need to be thinking about these things at all. That isn't too likely, though, since if you really are a seven, your mind will frequently bring up rosy scenarios to distract you from the drudgery of the present, in order to plan and create the future. If you're an Sp-dom, I would imagine that you would fantasize and idealize over things which are naturally connected to Sp (though the lines here can blur, if you're a more abstract type of person).

I don't know how reliable is the source, though, given that the article contains also a laughably stereotypical statement: "To illustrate, the 8-7 and 7-8 occasionally have an attraction toward art and/or knowledge, tendencies belonging to the 4 and 5, respectively."

Meh, the fact that you're able to sift out the generalizations and still find gold, is a sign that the article has merit. I found it interesting, at least.

The thing is that I'm very abstract, disconnected from my physical self, and the instincts seem to reflect the most basic drives.

What you should do, then, is re-translate each instinct into a more abstract form, and try to see which fits best.

OK, makes sense. At the very beginning I thought my gut fix is 9, because I liked the description. Live and let life, content with life, that kind of thing. After reading more in-depth descriptions, though, I realised there's very little 9 in me. I am intense, stormy, and I can be very forceful if I can't get something I want. I respect others' boundaries if they respect mine, although in a relationship I'm really domineering. I tend to idealise my partners/lovers at first, I love falling in love, but I have no patience for a longer relationship. And I tend to become quickly bored, too.

What are your thoughts on Type 1? Not that I'm saying you're a 1-fixer, just curious if you've considered it.

 

[aconite]

What is it about the 4w5 description that stood out the most to you? What about the 4w3?

Okay. The red/maroon parts are those that are nothing like me, the green are those I can relate to the most.

4w3s are theatrical, dramatic, and effete. Compared to 4w5s they are generally more ambitious and competitive, and place a greater emphasis on appearing beautiful, desireable, and elite. They tend to feel entitled and exempt. [...]are more inspiration-seeking. They feel a connection with the magical as if they're part of a special class of people with secret powers. They have an amorphous self-image that adapts to others [...] inferior/superior, withdrawn/assertive, emotional/flatlined, reactive/cool-headed, mired in the past/focused on moving forward, awkward/poised, fragile/resilient, easily discouraged/do whatever it takes, rejecting the game/conquering the game.
Their 3 wing precludes people from seeing fully what is inside them including even themselves.[...]They try to balance selling themselves out in the real world with hanging out amongst the "keeping it real" crowd.

They tend to be more intellectual and introspective. They are more likely to philosophize their inner reality. Many 4w5s have an unflinching "this is me so deal with it" persona that's harder and crustier in comparison to 4w3s.[...]Their persona serves more to redirect their shame away from their vulnerable self behind it in contrast to the 4w3 whose more shapeshifting persona facilitates relating to people.[...]a fascination for the macabre that their five wing brings.
They are equally proud of suffering for their weirdness as paying the price for being who they are only makes them feel even more authentic about themselves. It illustrates how they are too complex to be understood by the unworthy who lack the perception to decode their many layers to understand the real them.[...] "I'm completely true to myself and no one can take that from me." They mythologize their own personal tragedy.

Based on that description, I'd say you're more likely to be Sx-primary, actually. In fact, you've described Sx in the most concrete terms (You're drawn to ideas, music, intellectual pursuits which engage your mind and give it the charge you're looking for. This is a trait many Sx-doms share, actually, especially the ENxP sevens), Sp as more abstract (Sp-primaries are largely concerned with food, material comfort, finances, and other things which I personally find difficult to pay attention to for long, these don't seem to be a concern for you), and you seem to pay very little heed to So (So isn't just concerned with society, by the way; So is the instinct that has to do with interpersonal relations in general. It's concerned with your place in the group, establishing connections with the people around you, and the health and well-being of the greater social environment). Based on this answer alone, I'd think you were Sx/Sp, not Sp/Sx.

Yes. I need passion more than comfort and security - and I'm not speaking of passion=love, for me it's equally, if not more, about creating and perceiving overwhelming beauty. I love art, literature and music, I need constant intellectual stimulation, I always want more and more.

That isn't too likely, though, since if you really are a seven, your mind will frequently bring up rosy scenarios to distract you from the drudgery of the present, in order to plan and create the future. If you're an Sp-dom, I would imagine that you would fantasize and idealize over things which are naturally connected to Sp (though the lines here can blur, if you're a more abstract type of person).

Well, I my fantasies and dreams have never really been connected to Sp-things. In fact, while people talk about choosing and decorating their perfect home, for example, I get really bored. Why would I be concerned with such mundane things, when I have my dreams to fulfill?
I think it's not possible to completely satisfy one instinct without neglecting others: I'm much more likely to forget about sleeping, eating and the such when I'm doing something more Sx-oriented, be it drawing, climbing a mountain or having sex, than stop doing it to eat, or sleep, or dress warmly etc. I just can't relate to the prevailing need of intimacy that seems to be connected to Sx. But then again, I suspect that intuitive thinkers experience that instinct much differently from sensing feelers, for example.

Oh, and you wrote "if you are really a seven"... I think it's 90% likely that I am, but if I'm not, what can I be in your opinion?

What you should do, then, is re-translate each instinct into a more abstract form, and try to see which fits best.

Okay. I'll do that and think about it. More on that later, I need time.

What are your thoughts on Type 1? Not that I'm saying you're a 1-fixer, just curious if you've considered it.

Yes, yes I have. I can see a certain kind of perfectionism in myself, as well as idealism, but I find the idea of repressing anger and desires cringeworthy at least. I dislike preachy and moralistic attitude. I think humanity would be healthier and more peaceful, if people cared more about being true to their desires, rather than conforming to unrealistic standards.

 

[Dark Romantic]

Okay. The red/maroon parts are those that are nothing like me, the green are those I can relate to the most.

I still think 4w3 is more likely than 4w5; the parts you identified with on w3 are closer to the core type, while half the ones you put on as indicative of w5 are because you are a 7w8 (we're image triad last, so we're generally not going to give a fuck about what others think, at least, not as much as someone with an image type as their core), and the other half are applicable to 4w3, as well.

Yes. I need passion more than comfort and security - and I'm not speaking of passion=love, for me it's equally, if not more, about creating and perceiving overwhelming beauty. I love art, literature and music, I need constant intellectual stimulation, I always want more and more.

Passion over comfort and security would suggest Sx-first, yes.

Well, my fantasies and dreams have never really been connected to Sp-things. In fact, while people talk about choosing and decorating their perfect home, for example, I get really bored. Why would I be concerned with such mundane things, when I have my dreams to fulfill?
I think it's not possible to completely satisfy one instinct without neglecting others: I'm much more likely to forget about sleeping, eating and the such when I'm doing something more Sx-oriented, be it drawing, climbing a mountain or having sex, than stop doing it to eat, or sleep, or dress warmly etc. I just can't relate to the prevailing need of intimacy that seems to be connected to Sx. But then again, I suspect that intuitive thinkers experience that instinct much differently from sensing feelers, for example.

This is true... but Sx isn't intimacy (as in, warm, fuzzy, closeness), which is more So, anyways, but is more concerned with intensity, connection, merging, expression, uncovering, unraveling, pulling in, dancing, jumping, running, fighting, having sex, and experiencing all the hungry, angry, violent passion that the world has to offer. Sx is primal, first and foremost. It's a no-holds-barred, winner take all outlook on life. So wants to maintain stable connections with other people: Sx wants to merge, connect, and swallow the other person.

Oh, and you wrote "if you are really a seven"... I think it's 90% likely that I am, but if I'm not, what can I be in your opinion?

You might be a five; I haven't seen anything that suggests you're not a seven, though. That was more of a test than anything; if you didn't relate to the scenario I was showing you, it could have been a sign that you were mistyped.

 

[aconite]

I still think 4w3 is more likely than 4w5; the parts you identified with on w3 are closer to the core type, while half the ones you put on as indicative of w5 are because you are a 7w8 (we're image triad last, so we're generally not going to give a fuck about what others think, at least, not as much as someone with an image type as their core), and the other half are applicable to 4w3, as well.

Okay. I think I'm convinced about my 4 fix, at least. The fact that I identify a bit more with 4w5 than 4w3 is connected also to the fact that I identify with 5 much more than with 3 (but that could be a matter of triads, as you said). Of course, being a 7w8, I can't relate as much to 4ish traits as a true 4 would.

This is true... but Sx isn't intimacy (as in, warm, fuzzy, closeness), which is more So, anyways, but is more concerned with intensity, connection, merging, expression, uncovering, unraveling, pulling in, dancing, jumping, running, fighting, having sex, and experiencing all the hungry, angry, violent passion that the world has to offer. Sx is primal, first and foremost. It's a no-holds-barred, winner take all outlook on life. So wants to maintain stable connections with other people: Sx wants to merge, connect, and swallow the other person.

When you put it that way, yes, I would say Sx is my dominant instinct. It's generally easier for me to think about instinct in such terms then reading a description "Sx/Sp people like X, Y & Z", because the first thing I usually notice is that I don't like X, but I like Y and Z, and how could it be accurate, then? If I think about the secondary instinct as means to an end, and the dominant being the end, yes, Sx/Sp would be most likely (although Sp is still strong). Quite ironically, I have a similar problem with MBTI. My Ti and Ne work fine together, and I'm comfortable using either, but my tertiary function, whether it's Si or Fe, is hardly ever used.

I'm concerned with maintaining my personal boundaries, but this is not a case, I believe, of being Sp-first, but rather my chronic need for independence. *I* decide when to merge, to connect, to fight, to leave and come back with double passion.
My attitude to love is what made me think Sp/Sx at first - but now, having analysed it more deeply, it's more a case of being Sx/Sp when I look at it in terms of motivation and basic drive rather than behaviour. I don't seek security and familiar comfort, I seek passion and intensity (and I kind of underestimated how important it is to me). I might seem cold and aloof at first, but this is my general attitude towards things I'm not interested in. Well, I've been told that when I talk about something I love, I look very passionate and expressive. I want to pursue my interests no matter what.

I'm kind of skeptical towards typing via YouTube, but as I watched 7w8 examples from the sticky, Sp/Sx are less expressive than Sx/Sp, with more leveled emotions. Also, Sx/Sp tell more jokes and seem to be really excitable When I talk, I'm more Sx/Sp than Sp/Sx, expressive, uncontrolled, a bit provocative, and I laugh very easily. BTW,

is hilarious. I'm oficially in love with Joan Collins!

Also, I compared typewatch instinct ranges and while it's clear I'm either this:

sx/sp wanderer (strong sp) - the most clasically 'blocked' of the sx's, often exchanging intimacy in favor of the more immediate pleasures of the body. paradoxically the most wandering and restless of the sx/sp's. pulls from sp/so to ensure the sx flood is contained by the sp levee, which can provide a sense of stability at the expense of seeming put off by others. sex can mean a hollow satisfying of the instinct while more vulnerable feelings are suspended. quietly charged but muted, and can seem self pres first.

or this,

sp/sx decadent (strong sx) - sp at its most saturated with sx; self-attending ways are offset by a wilder outgoing streak, reaching outside themselves then pulling back. noticable 'sx-y' quality, often enough to pass for sx first.
quote: "what is my life, without the things I love?"
pulls from: sx/so, to enhance sx
role: the sensualist, the hedonist

I can relate to both. The pulling part is interesting; while Sp-first pulls to add energy, Sx-first pulls to contain energy. I see Sp and Sx together as trying to minimize energy loss (Sp) and maximize energy gain (Sx).

You might be a five; I haven't seen anything that suggests you're not a seven, though. That was more of a test than anything; if you didn't relate to the scenario I was showing you, it could have been a sign that you were mistyped.

Yes, if I weren't a seven, I think I'd be a five. Actually, I considered 5w4 as my head fix, because knowledge very important to me, and I can seem very detached. In fact, when I considered the triads, I wasn't really clear to me what I am.

Heart: 2,3,4
Head: 5,6,7
Gut: 8,9,1

No brainer here, I'm definitely a head type. Gut next, heart last.

withdrawn: 4,5,9
compliant: 1,2,6
assertive: 3,7,8

This one was tougher. I'm definitely not compliant (to the superego, that is) and I suspect there are no compliant types in my tritype either. I could see both withdrawn and assertive attitude in my personality, the latter being a bit stronger than the former.

Positive outlook: 2,7,9
Reactive: 4,6,8
Competency: 1,3,5

This is the part I had most trouble with. Honestly, I can hardly see myself as a positive outlook type. If I had to choose an attitude I agree with the most, that would be competency. Of course, I have the 7-ish tendency to distract myself with thinking of brighter future, and not letting people know that I feel bad... but a "silver lining" type? No.

Last but not least, I think 8 might be my gut fix, after all, although I'm not sure whether it's 8w7 or 8w9

 

[Dark Romantic]

Okay. I think I'm convinced about my 4 fix, at least. The fact that I identify a bit more with 4w5 than 4w3 is connected also to the fact that I identify with 5 much more than with 3 (but that could be a matter of triads, as you said). Of course, being a 7w8, I can't relate as much to 4ish traits as a true 4 would.

Take a minute to introspect on it, then come back to it; no rush.

When you put it that way, yes, I would say Sx is my dominant instinct. It's generally easier for me to think about instinct in such terms then reading a description "Sx/Sp people like X, Y & Z", because the first thing I usually notice is that I don't like X, but I like Y and Z, and how could it be accurate, then? If I think about the secondary instinct as means to an end, and the dominant being the end, yes, Sx/Sp would be most likely (although Sp is still strong).

Bingo, to the bolded. With me, I use social situations to satisfy my need for intensity: I can't abide in a stable environment for long. Eventually, I cause chaos and go against the grain; it's just a matter of time. I tend to experiment with and disregard the customs and familiarity of others, and (though it's usually unintentional) I tend to have a chaotic effect on hierarchical systems, alienating many who are attached to the status quo, and drawing in those who are not (I posted the difference between Sx/So and So/Sx a long time ago, and I basically said the same thing). I create factions, counter-teams, and instability. I have less of a concern with self-preservation; it only really appears when it's necessary.

Quite ironically, I have a similar problem with MBTI. My Ti and Ne work fine together, and I'm comfortable using either, but my tertiary function, whether it's Si or Fe, is hardly ever used.

What bothers you more; someone stating the obvious, someone trying to make you accept something based on the fact that it has always been done that way, and appeals to familiarity as a sign of validity? Or, do the unspoken expectations of politeness, social grace, and the emotions of others get on your nerves a lot more?

I'm concerned with maintaining my personal boundaries, but this is not a case, I believe, of being Sp-first, but rather my chronic need for independence. *I* decide when to merge, to connect, to fight, to leave and come back with double passion.

There we go. That's something I relate to, at least. It must be on my terms, not anyone else's; I tend to snap at people who try to pry without my go-ahead.

I'm kind of skeptical towards typing via YouTube, but as I watched 7w8 examples from the sticky, Sp/Sx are less expressive than Sx/Sp, with more leveled emotions. Also, Sx/Sp tell more jokes and seem to be really excitable When I talk, I'm more Sx/Sp than Sp/Sx, expressive, uncontrolled, a bit provocative, and I laugh very easily. BTW,

is hilarious. I'm oficially in love with Joan Collins!

LOL... that was hilarious.

Also, I compared typewatch instinct ranges and while it's clear I'm either this:

or this,

I can relate to both. The pulling part is interesting; while Sp-first pulls to add energy, Sx-first pulls to contain energy. I see Sp and Sx together as trying to minimize energy loss (Sp) and maximize energy gain (Sx).

Yes, Sx-doms generally have to contain their energy, until something happens to let it all out. Sx/Sp will appear more intense, reactive, and contained (potential energy), Sx/So seems like it's burning, moving, shifting, attacking, and provoking (kinetic energy).

Yes, if I weren't a seven, I think I'd be a five. Actually, I considered 5w4 as my head fix, because knowledge very important to me, and I can seem very detached. In fact, when I considered the triads, I wasn't really clear to me what I am.

Let's go over this then, shall we?

This one was tougher. I'm definitely not compliant (to the superego, that is) and I suspect there are no compliant types in my tritype either. I could see both withdrawn and assertive attitude in my personality, the latter being a bit stronger than the former.

What is your understanding of withdrawn and assertive, respectively?

This is the part I had most trouble with. Honestly, I can hardly see myself as a positive outlook type. If I had to choose an attitude I agree with the most, that would be competency. Of course, I have the 7-ish tendency to distract myself with thinking of brighter future, and not letting people know that I feel bad... but a "silver lining" type? No.

What is your understanding about each triad? Distraction from present pain by planning future joy is classic 7.

Last but not least, I think 8 might be my gut fix, after all, although I'm not sure whether it's 8w7 or 8w9

Which do you relate to more?

 

[aconite]

What bothers you more; someone stating the obvious, someone trying to make you accept something based on the fact that it has always been done that way, and appeals to familiarity as a sign of validity? Or, do the unspoken expectations of politeness, social grace, and the emotions of others get on your nerves a lot more?

Well, both bother me, to be honest. However, in the second situation, while feeling very uncomfortable, I'd at least try to understand. The first one is much less bearable. Nevertheless, I must say that if I had to accept and conform to either of the situations, adhering to familiar norms would be easier than reading others' emotions.

Yes, Sx-doms generally have to contain their energy, until something happens to let it all out. Sx/Sp will appear more intense, reactive, and contained (potential energy), Sx/So seems like it's burning, moving, shifting, attacking, and provoking (kinetic energy).

Thanks! It's a very nerdy way to explain this, btw. "Understanding basic human instinct through physics"

What is your understanding of withdrawn and assertive, respectively?

OK - my source is this thread. Well, in the simplest terms, as I understand it: assertive/id - meeting the problem, withdrawn/ego - defending oneself from the problem through withdrawing. Or, using a battlefield metaphor: assertive - counterattack, conquer; withdrawn - flee, regroup, attack later.

What is your understanding about each triad? Distraction from present pain by planning future joy is classic 7.

Why, I know that. This is how I decided on being a 7 rather than 5, actually

So:
- positive outlook: focus on positive feelings/hope; procrastinating, happy-go-lucky, showing people that everything's OK
- reactive: focus on negative feelings/despair; brooding, pessimistic, showing people that everything's not OK
- competent: disengage from feelings; efficient, aloof, showing people that emotions have no part in making decisions

Oh, and this brief test on Enneagram Institute is about those triads, isn't it?

Which do you relate to more?

I'm not 100% sure. Well, I'm reading Typewatch descriptions (these are probably my favourite ) and right now I'm getting an impression that 8w7=offensive, 8w9=defensive. I can relate more to 8w7, but that might be because I can recognise 7-ish traits in the description.

 

[Dark Romantic]

Well, both bother me, to be honest. However, in the second situation, while feeling very uncomfortable, I'd at least try to understand. The first one is much less bearable. Nevertheless, I must say that if I had to accept and conform to either of the situations, adhering to familiar norms would be easier than reading others' emotions.

I'd put my money on you having inferior Si, then. INTPs tend to have more problems with the latter than the former. Because of that, I'd also say you're more likely to be a 7 than a 5.

Thanks! It's a very nerdy way to explain this, btw. "Understanding basic human instinct through physics"

Haha! Ne at work. :wink:

OK - my source is this thread. Well, in the simplest terms, as I understand it: assertive/id - meeting the problem, withdrawn/ego - defending oneself from the problem through withdrawing. Or, using a battlefield metaphor: assertive - counterattack, conquer; withdrawn - flee, regroup, attack later.

So:
- positive outlook: focus on positive feelings/hope; procrastinating, happy-go-lucky, showing people that everything's OK
- reactive: focus on negative feelings/despair; brooding, pessimistic, showing people that everything's not OK
- competent: disengage from feelings; efficient, aloof, showing people that emotions have no part in making decisions

Perfect; just making sure you had it right.

Oh, and this brief test on Enneagram Institute is about those triads, isn't it?

Yes, it is.

I'm not 100% sure. Well, I'm reading Typewatch descriptions (these are probably my favourite ) and right now I'm getting an impression that 8w7=offensive, 8w9=defensive. I can relate more to 8w7, but that might be because I can recognise 7-ish traits in the description.

Are you more territorial, or conquering?

 

[aconite]

I'd put my money on you having inferior Si, then. INTPs tend to have more problems with the latter than the former. Because of that, I'd also say you're more likely to be a 7 than a 5.

Thanks

Perfect; just making sure you had it right.

Okay then! There's a bit of reactivity in me, but considering that I have both 4 and 8 in my tritype, this isn't very surprising. However, I can still identify with the competent approach, although 1, 3 or 5 don't appear in my tritype at all. Curious thing. I don't want to cut any part of myself off because it doesn't fit in the box, so to speak. I've noticed people who, having chosen a label for themselves, be it a personality type or anything else, start molding themselves in order to become the label. I can't understand it at all.

Are you more territorial, or conquering?

Hmm. Conquering, I would say.

 

[aconite]

Okay - I've been thinking about it. Maybe my incoherent rambling will be useful, maybe not, but I'm writing it down just in case.

Gut fix: I think it's 8w7. I identified a bit with 8w9, too, because I'm not always in attack mode (I'm not a core 8, after all). However, when my 7 strategy doesn't work and I switch to evil tyrant mode, I'm definitely more offensive than defensive. I read (can't remember where, nevermind) that 8w9 often seem tough to the world, but gentle and caring to their loved ones. Well, when my 8 gut lashes out, my friends and family are usually affected the most. I don't hold grudges, I'm quick to forgive and forget. Because of that, I'm inclined to say that my gut is 8w7.

Heart fix: I know it's 4, yeah, but the wing is... elusive. My inner nerd wants 4w5, because they're described as more intellectual than 4w3 (I know, I know, stereotypes). OTOH, 4w3 is also described as "creating with an audience in mind", which is certainly true of me. In art or literature, being clear and getting the message across is more important than expressing myself.

I thought of the time when my heart fix was most pronounced - teenage years, of course. I embodied the 4w5 stereotype back then: wearing black, writing bad poetry, brooding, angst, interest in philosophy (I loved existentialism). When I was 14, my lit teacher wrote on my essay "very mature and very pessimistic". I was provocative and dramatic, too, but it's unclear to me whether it was a result or the 3 wing, or just being a (not very healthy) 7. 4w3 matches the overall flamboyant and passionate persona of 784, of course, but I'm still not convinced. I read pretty much everything about the 4w3 vs. 4w5 distinction I could find and well, still not sure. I wish I could interrogate a 7 with 4w3 fix and a 7 with 4w5 fix, then contrast and compare