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Seriously,

I look out into the world and I see deception, lies and fake, forced conformity.

So who is up for starting to work on a new world?
Building a shadow society that can sustain itself and ultimately break free from the powers be.
Because I am sure a lot of you INTPs out there see what I see and can agree that we are heading for a pretty bad place.

I wonder how many here are truly INTP's.
 

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Yeah, I hear ya. Years ago I actually had conceived a plan to start changing the world. It of course would have required a large portion of people to think and care enough to stray from some of the shallowness of life, societal norms, political dogmas. I started looking at that with the probablility of success and the work involved, and decided not to put in the work. But if you want to put in the work, I'll join into the think tank.
 

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Do you really have the superiority to pass judgment on the world?

Good point. Really more of an opinion type thing, than judgement, but maybe we should tackle that question first: Is this world, most of mainstream society, decidedly corrupt?

My take is yes, but as student of the history of the human race, I believe it has been that way for thousands of years. No reason to let it get you down though.

Plus, I was just curious about the "shadow society" part of @dont 's plan. Triggered my imagination.
 

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I look out into the world and I see deception, lies and fake, forced conformity.
These things are not serious enough to engage me to do much of anything. Far more important is that people are physically safe and have access to appropriate housing and sufficient food and clean water. These fundamentals can go a long way towards creating societies in which people are not fake, deceptive, and forced to conform.
 

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These things are not serious enough to engage me to do much of anything. Far more important is that people are physically safe and have access to appropriate housing and sufficient food and clean water. These fundamentals can go a long way towards creating societies in which people are not fake, deceptive, and forced to conform.
And providing those physical needs is easier for most other people to get behind and get something acheived.
 

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And providing those physical needs is easier for most other people to get behind and get something acheived.
It's easier to get certain groups of people behind it, but acheiving those things for other groups of has not had a good history.

I think that every group of people has a "as good as it gets" level of existence. This will vary with environment, and technology. For example, for much of the 40 years, Scandinavian countries were great places for Scandinavians and some other Europeans to live. Other European origin people find the socialism too stifling, their own societies are more suited to their own ways. However, very different groups, such as subsaharan Africans, seem to find Scandinavian countries much more desireable than their own societies. And that is in spite of being a small minority, not really fitting in, being at the bottom of almost every social metric you can imagine,and a climate that they are very unsuited for.
The Scandinavian countries are still at this time expending great effort to make things comfortable for these immigrants/ refugees. If that attitude changes, it is likely to still be "as good as it gets" for these people.
After all, Africans still come to America in large numbers every year. And we are in many ways a racist country.
Most Africans I've met do not seem to be resentful of being a second class citizen in a first world country. The problem comes when their children and grandchildren grow up without a reference of how much better their second class life is compared to being anything in the African country that the parents come from. Then they are resentful and sometimes try to change American society to suit their needs.
Now Africans in America are not the only group with this dynamic. Virtually all immigrants from places less desireable have done this to more or less degrees. Latinos in America are less susceptible to this because their homelands are close enough that they frequently travel there and can see what their ancestors were trying to get away from. Plus, they are treated much better than black people, for various reasons.
European Jews were very notable for this behavior, even though they have done better in America than any other group. And Americans allowed them to greatly change American society to suit their needs.
 

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It's easier to get certain groups of people behind it, but acheiving those things for other groups of has not had a good history.

I think that every group of people has a "as good as it gets" level of existence. This will vary with environment, and technology. For example, for much of the 40 years, Scandinavian countries were great places for Scandinavians and some other Europeans to live. Other European origin people find the socialism too stifling, their own societies are more suited to their own ways. However, very different groups, such as subsaharan Africans, seem to find Scandinavian countries much more desireable than their own societies. And that is in spite of being a small minority, not really fitting in, being at the bottom of almost every social metric you can imagine,and a climate that they are very unsuited for.
The Scandinavian countries are still at this time expending great effort to make things comfortable for these immigrants/ refugees. If that attitude changes, it is likely to still be "as good as it gets" for these people.
After all, Africans still come to America in large numbers every year. And we are in many ways a racist country.
Most Africans I've met do not seem to be resentful of being a second class citizen in a first world country. The problem comes when their children and grandchildren grow up without a reference of how much better their second class life is compared to being anything in the African country that the parents come from. Then they are resentful and sometimes try to change American society to suit their needs.
Now Africans in America are not the only group with this dynamic. Virtually all immigrants from places less desireable have done this to more or less degrees. Latinos in America are less susceptible to this because their homelands are close enough that they frequently travel there and can see what their ancestors were trying to get away from. Plus, they are treated much better than black people, for various reasons.
European Jews were very notable for this behavior, even though they have done better in America than any other group. And Americans allowed them to greatly change American society to suit their needs.
I think I see what you are trying to say, but I think anybody should take issue as being considered a second class citizen, based purely on their cultural background. As for Latinos, where I live, they settled here before U.S.A. did, and before them Native Americans, so actually I(higher percentage anglo than my native american background) would consider my people more immigrants(really invading conquerors) than these two groups. But all of that is in the distant past. People are people with different backgrounds and advantages based on those backgrounds. But there are plenty of stories of people surpassing their backgrounds, and becoming highly successful and respected. Their raw potential could be so much greater than many others, and just needing to be nurtured.
 

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Seriously,

I look out into the world and I see deception, lies and fake, forced conformity.

So who is up for starting to work on a new world?
Building a shadow society that can sustain itself and ultimately break free from the powers be.
Because I am sure a lot of you INTPs out there see what I see and can agree that we are heading for a pretty bad place.

I wonder how many here are truly INTP's.
Seriously,

If you're unable to adapt to the world and your 'solution' is to have the world adapt to you...

Yeah, I have doubts too.
 

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And providing those physical needs is easier for most other people to get behind and get something acheived.
I think I see what you are trying to say, but I think anybody should take issue as being considered a second class citizen, based purely on their cultural background. As for Latinos, where I live, they settled here before U.S.A. did, and before them Native Americans, so actually I(higher percentage anglo than my native american background) would consider my people more immigrants(really invading conquerors) than these two groups. But all of that is in the distant past. People are people with different backgrounds and advantages based on those backgrounds. But there are plenty of stories of people surpassing their backgrounds, and becoming highly successful and respected. Their raw potential could be so much greater than many others, and just needing to be nurtured.
The problem is that the great modern life for average white people in much of Europe and the Anglo sphere is unprecedented in history. Even 200 years ago the average white person had a very hard life.

The dominance of white people in the last 500 years has resulted in a world that is largely oriented towards benefiting them. I think it's not realistic to expect all people in the world to be able to thrive as well as white people in such a world. Especially those who until 500 years ago were living largely Paleolithic lifestyles, and did not go through the evolutionary pressures that civilization brought. The fact that a small number of these people actually can thrive and excel in the western world, is truly remarkable, and white people should take pride in it.
That being said, most nonwhite groups will likely never do as well as white people in the best white countries. No matter how much those white people try to help them. (The very fact that they need that help speaks volumes). I don't have any good answer to this issue. Each white person needs to ask "what do I owe to other groups who are unable to create societies like mine?" The "White Man's Burden" of colonial times. There is no correct answer, and trying to force those who say "nothing", to contribute is starting to create a backlash. Especially when helping those peoples has long passed the point of diminishing returns.

Tl;dr- no happy ending for most of the world.
 

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@Sillyasuarus No, I did not at all understand what you were saying before, but now do. I totally disagree. I ain't that type of redneck. I was talking about young people who came straight from a region that had little access to the types of education that we do, and that the bright ones pick up our language quick, and blow past the average American, black, white or whatever color, simply because their raw intelligence is every bit as strong as ours, just were not in the environment to develop it in the way we do. My interpretation of what you are saying is that you believe the white man is naturally the supreme race, and even those of color who grew up with all the advantages of the average white kid will be unlikely to succeed.

I know this is preposterous due to the people I've known. Given the same exposure to the same mentally developmental tools, there is no difference in the educational outcome on average. I do not think there is any "white man's burden" as you put it. And to be honest, I sometimes wonder if our society is that great in comparison to the those we have destroyed, or those some look down upon.
 

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Seriously,

I look out into the world and I see deception, lies and fake, forced conformity.

So who is up for starting to work on a new world?
Building a shadow society that can sustain itself and ultimately break free from the powers be.
Because I am sure a lot of you INTPs out there see what I see and can agree that we are heading for a pretty bad place.

I wonder how many here are truly INTP's.
Since when is the P in IntP, not P anymore? No?
That's why not. No offense, it's not that I care much regardless. It's simply not up to me.
I'll leave saving the world to the 'younger people' who still think hope they can.
 

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@Sillyasuarus No, I did not at all understand what you were saying before, but now do. I totally disagree. I ain't that type of redneck. I was talking about young people who came straight from a region that had little access to the types of education that we do, and that the bright ones pick up our language quick, and blow past the average American, black, white or whatever color, simply because their raw intelligence is every bit as strong as ours, just were not in the environment to develop it in the way we do. My interpretation of what you are saying is that you believe the white man is naturally the supreme race, and even those of color who grew up with all the advantages of the average white kid will be unlikely to succeed.

I know this is preposterous due to the people I've known. Given the same exposure to the same mentally developmental tools, there is no difference in the educational outcome on average. I do not think there is any "white man's burden" as you put it. And to be honest, I sometimes wonder if our society is that great in comparison to the those we have destroyed, or those some look down upon.
Keep in mind i was referring to groups of people. Of course some individuals will be able to outperform the average of their group. But the "environment" you mention is
their own people! This is why the space program developed in America and Russia instead of Haiti or Liberia. White populations have enough people with sufficient. intelligence and community to build an industrial infrastructure that allows things like a space program or nuclear fission. Most other peoples do not. Many peoples cannot even maintain, much less create have fresh water delivery systems. Those were widespread over 2000 years ago in the civilized world!

I am not more of a white supremacist than anyone else living in a white ruled country. What language are you using? What abstract ideas such as "precision" or "promise" do you use? What system of government do you prefer? What style clothes do you wear? What religion do you follow or were influenced by growing up? How are you communicating with me right now? The things and concepts white hands and minds have created are everywhere in every part of our lives. If you are honest, you have a strong preference for the world white people created or heavily influenced.

I believe that white supremacy is on a sharp decline. White people today seem very different than the ones who ruled the world in the last few centuries. Ffs, they are allowing themselves to be replaced in many of their own countries! How insane is that!
I believe that there will be Chinese supremacy in the next century, if they desire it. There were centuries of Persian supremacy and Egyptian supremacy, so you cannot be sure of who will dominate any area in the future.
Btw, some peoples are much better off today from their contact with white people- such as Koreans and Mexicans ( there would be not mestizos without white people!), and a few African nations that were colonized. Others such as many Native Americans and Aboriginal Australians probably are worse off, but we cannot know for certain, as they did not have written languages.
 

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I find the current world absolutely fascinating and, in my opinion, it makes complete sense that it works the way it does.
And arguably, conformity is less of a problem now than it was in the past. At least now, they'll generally only burn you alive on Facebook.

I mean, I'll take Aziz Ansari's kind of "abuse" over the Genghis Khan's or whatever. Given the option.

Sure, people are stupid, but they pretty much leave you alone if you don't want to be stupid. That's about the best humans have done yet. As far as I can see, organizing or joining a society might encourage the opposite.
 

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And arguably, conformity is less of a problem now than it was in the past. At least now, they'll generally only burn you alive on Facebook.

I mean, I'll take Aziz Ansari's kind of "abuse" over the Genghis Khan's or whatever. Given the option.

Sure, people are stupid, but they pretty much leave you alone if you don't want to be stupid. That's about the best humans have done yet. As far as I can see, organizing or joining a society might encourage the opposite.
They will leave you alone unless America or EU or Russia or Israel or China decide you or your land have something of value to them. Then you are a pawn to be either exploited or bombed. Or worse, "liberated", which basically means bombed, then exploited, and ruled by a different brutal dictator than before.
 

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And arguably, conformity is less of a problem now than it was in the past. At least now, they'll generally only burn you alive on Facebook.

I mean, I'll take Aziz Ansari's kind of "abuse" over the Genghis Khan's or whatever. Given the option.

Sure, people are stupid, but they pretty much leave you alone if you don't want to be stupid. That's about the best humans have done yet. As far as I can see, organizing or joining a society might encourage the opposite.
This is a good point. The OP talked about forced conformity, When most of the conformity is not as much forced as possibly a thoughtless go along with the group, latest craze type thing, which has always existed.

Thinking of America the forced conformity I can think of is the federal government forcing all publicly funded schools to teach things a specific way. Where at one time this was done at more local levels.

The change I was wanting to see in my own country was the demise of the political party system. Talking to many people, they don't think about things on an issue by issue basis as much as it being like supporting their "team", so whatever the party stance on it is, that is their stance. And less get's accomplished when dealing with party agendas. But as many have said above, most people are fine with it, so what's my place in wanting to change it.
 

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This is a good point. The OP talked about forced conformity, When most of the conformity is not as much forced as possibly a thoughtless go along with the group, latest craze type thing, which has always existed.

Thinking of America the forced conformity I can think of is the federal government forcing all publicly funded schools to teach things a specific way. Where at one time this was done at more local levels.

The change I was wanting to see in my own country was the demise of the political party system. Talking to many people, they don't think about things on an issue by issue basis as much as it being like supporting their "team", so whatever the party stance on it is, that is their stance. And less get's accomplished when dealing with party agendas. But as many have said above, most people are fine with it, so what's my place in wanting to change it.
Much of this is due to an increasingly multi racial society. A decade ago, the mayoral race in my city was between a white man and a Latino man. The Latino man's platform was basically "it's our turn now". As expected, it was a very effective appeal to the 50% Latino city. Fortunately our city charter does not give the mayor much power, as he was an atrocious mayor. Contrast that with a recent local election that had two Latinas running against each other in a 70% Latino district. They campaigned on actual issues, since there was no racial angle to exploit. Of course, the issues largely consisted of how much federal government money they could deliver to their constituents, but that is not exclusively a nonwhite thing in America.
 

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They will leave you alone unless America or EU or Russia or Israel or China decide you or your land have something of value to them. Then you are a pawn to be either exploited or bombed. Or worse, "liberated", which basically means bombed, then exploited, and ruled by a different brutal dictator than before.
If your point is some people still have it rough, I agree. However, my point was I won't be forgoing my non-rough state of affairs for an unknown social experiment.
 

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Much of this is due to an increasingly multi racial society. A decade ago, the mayoral race in my city was between a white man and a Latino man. The Latino man's platform was basically "it's our turn now". As expected, it was a very effective appeal to the 50% Latino city. Fortunately our city charter does not give the mayor much power, as he was an atrocious mayor. Contrast that with a recent local election that had two Latinas running against each other in a 70% Latino district. They campaigned on actual issues, since there was no racial angle to exploit. Of course, the issues largely consisted of how much federal government money they could deliver to their constituents, but that is not exclusively a nonwhite thing in America.
I believe much of it is more possibly a case of a lack of deep, open thinking, combined with the pick your side for combat type model. The politicians know this and take advantage of it, and media pushes it so they can make money off of it. Everything is not about race. As a matter of fact, in my opinion most of our race issues are due to exaggerations from both sides.
 
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