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NTs & Intellectual Snobbery

4406 Views 41 Replies 25 Participants Last post by  nevermore, 
D
NOTE: For ease of communication, I will speak in absolute generalities. I'm not saying these issues apply to ALL NTs.

One huge pattern I notice with NTs is that they think they're more intelligent than most people. Intellectually superior. They're always making condescending comments about people in general - about how they're all such imbeciles, how they can't comprehend anything intellectual, how they "feel like they have to talk down to them because they are unable to understand what I'm saying". (Boasting hidden under the guise of bemoaning)

Why is that? If you have that attitude - do you realize that OTHER NTs are probably thinking of you as one of "the stupid humans"?

1. THEORY UNO

Do you guys mistakenly believe that you're more intelligent than other people because you SEE and are AWARE of ALL of your own mental capacities, but you cannot see the full capacity of others? You only see the other person's intelligence if they externalize it to you. You don't know what they're thinking or how much intellectual capacity they have - it's all in their heads.

(To put it another way, you see 100% of your own intelligence, but only 25% of an outsider's intelligence. So you mistakenly believe that you're 4 times as intelligent as the other person.)

2. THEORY DOS

Perhaps they're not talking about biomechanics or genetic theory. It doesn't mean the person's stupid. It just means one or both of two things:

- They never received the education that would even provide a foundation to ever learn about such complex subjects in science/technology/etc.
- They understand the value of niche effort. Leave the scientists to study science, and they'll focus on whatever their expertise is. When people focus on their strengths and current capabilities, there's much more leverage to achieve more - both individually and professionally.

-----------------------

And how do you even define or judge intelligence anyway? Has everybody you've ever known taken a professionally-administered IQ test? And if NTs are hypothetically superior, and are 25% of the population, then they're only "smarter than" 75% of the population. What's that, an IQ of 110? That's still under the range of "average intelligence". And don't start on standard deviations and all that, because that's not the point. My point is to demonstrate that MOST NTs aren't really all THAT mentally extraordinary. They just tend to channel whatever intelligence they have into "intellectual activities".

So why the arrogance? It's so rampant I'm beginning to wonder if I'm not a humble NF or a down-to-earth SP. {/rant}
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R
I think that yes, we tend to think that people are less intelligent simply because they don't externalize it or participate in intelluctual activities. But I also think that [atleast we intps] tend to compare ourselves to the best and think that we are dumb, simply because we missed a detail while looking at the big picture.

So, I suppose we think higher of ourselves for illegitimate reasons, but we also tend to compare ourselves more to the actual elite.
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D
Radiant Flux said:
I think that yes, we tend to think that people are less intelligent simply because they don't externalize it or participate in intelluctual activities. But I also think that [atleast we intps] tend to compare ourselves to the best and think that we are dumb, simply because we missed a detail while looking at the big picture.

So, I suppose we think higher of ourselves for illegitimate reasons, but we also tend to compare ourselves more to the actual elite.
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I also constantly compare myself to the brightest and best - but that doesn't make me think of myself as intellectually superior. Quite the contrary. It's completely humbling. Especially when you consider that intelligence is fixed from birth. I remember spending an hour reading bios of Rhodes Scholars. It was so disheartening that I literally contemplated dropping out of high school to become a career dog groomer. (Mind you, that doom and groom mindset lasted a whole four minutes, but still. lol)

It's the disadvantageous reverse of the old adage: "If you want to look thin, spend time with fat people."
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A
It's a rationalization due to the lack of intellectual connection.. so I'd say it's more along the lines of "Theory Dos"
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T
I tend to dislike people similar to my own type for those exact reasons. I am on good terms with ESFP's, they don't judge people like the people I'm"supposed" to be friends with. It's interesting, when I was younger and hanging out with the "smart" crowd I was judging those people thinking I was being judged, a while back I realized they really weren't judging me at all, I was just judging them.

I suppose now I judge NT's XD

I just can't win:confused:
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God said:
NOTE: For ease of communication, I will speak in absolute generalities. I'm not saying these issues apply to ALL NTs.

One huge pattern I notice with NTs is that they think they're more intelligent than most people. Intellectually superior. They're always making condescending comments about people in general - about how they're all such imbeciles, how they can't comprehend anything intellectual, how they "feel like they have to talk down to them because they are unable to understand what I'm saying". (Boasting hidden under the guise of bemoaning)

Why is that? If you have that attitude - do you realize that OTHER NTs are probably thinking of you as one of "the stupid humans"?

1. THEORY UNO

Do you guys mistakenly believe that you're more intelligent than other people because you SEE and are AWARE of ALL of your own mental capacities, but you cannot see the full capacity of others? You only see the other person's intelligence if they externalize it to you. You don't know what they're thinking or how much intellectual capacity they have - it's all in their heads.

(To put it another way, you see 100% of your own intelligence, but only 25% of an outsider's intelligence. So you mistakenly believe that you're 4 times as intelligent as the other person.)

2. THEORY DOS

Perhaps they're not talking about biomechanics or genetic theory. It doesn't mean the person's stupid. It just means one or both of two things:

- They never received the education that would even provide a foundation to ever learn about such complex subjects in science/technology/etc.
- They understand the value of niche effort. Leave the scientists to study science, and they'll focus on whatever their expertise is. When people focus on their strengths and current capabilities, there's much more leverage to achieve more - both individually and professionally.

-----------------------

And how do you even define or judge intelligence anyway? Has everybody you've ever known taken a professionally-administered IQ test? And if NTs are hypothetically superior, and are 25% of the population, then they're only "smarter than" 75% of the population. What's that, an IQ of 110? That's still under the range of "average intelligence". And don't start on standard deviations and all that, because that's not the point. My point is to demonstrate that MOST NTs aren't really all THAT mentally extraordinary. They just tend to channel whatever intelligence they have into "intellectual activities".

So why the arrogance? It's so rampant I'm beginning to wonder if I'm not a humble NF or a down-to-earth SP. {/rant}
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I will now evaluate and critique your post.
NTs think they're more intelligent than most people? I don't. And I don't talk down either. The biggest issue for me is when people don't think for themselves and just follow society's standards without questioning them. Or they never bother to question anything. Not understanding stuff..I have no problem with that.
1. No I do not believe that. I think everyone is just as intelligent as I, the defining factor though is how often they exercise that intelligence and their way of thinking. I'm fine with most ways of thinking, except just doing things because they are 'normal.' Granted, I know what I know and what I do NOT know, but I am not superior in any way.
2. Where the heck did you get this from? I've seen many SJs that were "intellectually superior." Maybe you've had a bad experience with an NT, but not all of us are like that. I'm definitely willing to listen to new ideas or approaches.
If you are interested, my IQ is 119. I don't believe in IQ though, it is a flawed model that only tests one aspect of intelligence and there is tons of bias in it.
I don't channel all my energy into intellectual activities. i do what interests me, and as much as i like intellectual activities, i also like concerts, cocktails, art, sporting events, etc.
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T
I've come to realize that while I am intelligent (upper 130's lower 140's IQ), that I am not about to win the nobel prizes anytime soon (well, maybe if I promised peace and increased military spending or made up a psuedo-science to finance my $300,000 a month electric bill). I generally just embrace that I bring something different to the table that everyone seems to enjoy. If we start talking politics though I will cut you down and more than likely accuse you of being some sort of blind proletariat drone who fears his own autonomy. <That's generally my negative side and I've stopped talking politics with people who aren't my good friends.

I think there are definitely different types of intelligence and I think anyone aware of this forum is probably a smart cookie to be curious about this personality crap :)
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A
God said:
Why is that? If you have that attitude - do you realize that OTHER NTs are probably thinking of you as one of "the stupid humans"?
Click to expand...
Reminds me of " Guilty until proven innocent. "
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H
I did not chose this arrogance, it found me. First, I was born an INTJ; secondly, despite my protests, I cannot convince anybody I know that I am not the smartest person with whom they are acquainted. I keep telling them that I'm not the smartest - that that honor goes to a relative of mine - but they just can't accept that!
"Who's the smartest person you know?"
"You are"
"No! [X] is!"
repeat.
repeat.
repeat.
They don't learn!
It can get somewhat infuriating after awhile. How arrogant can I truly be if it is them, rather than myself, who insists on my intellectual superiority?
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T
HannibalLecter said:
It can get somewhat infuriating after awhile. How arrogant can I truly be if it is them, rather than myself, who insists on my intellectual superiority?
Click to expand...
You could always just kill them :wink:






Sorry if that was in poor taste, but the name 'HannibalLecter' invited it.

I've found that ENTJs and INTJs often get labelled as "The smartest person I know." I know one of each quite well. While I tend to be the, "Man, I thought that guy was kinda stupid until I spoke with him, and it turns out he's really fuckin' smart," type of person. Probably has to do with the fact that NTJs tend to try at things like academics where as I barely paid attention to anything and irked out C's and was more than happy all while submitting manuscripts to literary agents and engaging in other impractical pursuits.
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S
God said:
And how do you even define or judge intelligence anyway? Has everybody you've ever known taken a professionally-administered IQ test? And if NTs are hypothetically superior, and are 25% of the population, then they're only "smarter than" 75% of the population. What's that, an IQ of 110? That's still under the range of "average intelligence". And don't start on standard deviations and all that, because that's not the point. My point is to demonstrate that MOST NTs aren't really all THAT mentally extraordinary. They just tend to channel whatever intelligence they have into "intellectual activities".
Click to expand...
I define it as unclear correlation between IQ vs. Productivity (# of Discoveries); A higher IQ does not necessarily mean more accomplishments and discoveries in life. A lower IQ does not mean the person is unable to discover something.

Actually this type of snobbery speaks in many forms.

Height is "correlated" with IQ which leads to people believing just because they're taller, they're smarter.
Race is "correlated" with IQ which leads to people believe that people of a certain race are smarter.
Ad infinitum.

As a different way to look at it, those NTs snobs you're referring to don't speak with their minds but rather their ego (maybe to compensate for the lack of intelligence?).
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Trainwreck said:
You could always just kill them :wink:
Click to expand...
What makes you think that I have not already done so? :wink:

Sorry if that was in poor taste
Click to expand...
You shouldn't be. You are an INTP.
but the name 'HannibalLecter' invited it.
Click to expand...
So I've learnt.

where as I barely paid attention to anything and irked out C's and was more than happy all while submitting manuscripts to literary agents and engaging in other impractical pursuits.
Click to expand...
Further explain this.
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D
HannibalLecter said:
I did not chose this arrogance, it found me. First, I was born an INTJ; secondly, despite my protests, I cannot convince anybody I know that I am not the smartest person with whom they are acquainted. I keep telling them that I'm not the smartest - that that honor goes to a relative of mine - but they just can't accept that!
"Who's the smartest person you know?"
"You are"
"No! [X] is!"
repeat.
repeat.
repeat.
They don't learn!
It can get somewhat infuriating after awhile. How arrogant can I truly be if it is them, rather than myself, who insists on my intellectual superiority?
Click to expand...
So you believe what everyone tells you?

Is that really the hallmark of intelligence? :wink:

And I'll have to assume that in order for your IQ to be that high, your spatial intelligence would clearly have to compensate for your grammatical ineptitude:

"I did not CHOSE" <--- * choose

:tongue:

P.S. If these people are anything like me, they're just playing dumb/kissing ass to get in your good graces and to get you off-guard....mwahahahah. Yeah, you better eat them.
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T
HannibalLecter said:
Further explain this.
Click to expand...
Lol, just the terse alacrity I've come to expect from INTJs.

And now for the verbosely discursive 'up its own ass' analysis you've probably come to expect from an INTP.

I've always held public education or education at the hands of the powers that be in contempt, be it public schools, universities, or whatever. I value self education. Especially seeing as I am a post college graduate who has had the pleasure of working under all sorts of idiots who on paper (degree level, GPA, etc.) are much more qualified for the job but have been unable to do the job at my level which is why I feel I was right in my conclusion that 90% of getting good grades is diligence.

For me, in order for there to be diligence I need to feel interested and right with my principles.

Interest: I got my fair share of A's in classes that were interesting to me and became the apple of a couple of professors eyes. I also got my fair share of D's in classes that I just didn't give a fuck about and found to be superfluous and worthless. I tended to get A's in classes that didn't require homework and if a class required homework depending on the amount would dictate how much my grade dropped.

Principle: I think education exists nowadays as a way to channel taxpayer money into sending every idiot to university for a year in the dorms to get hammered and drop out in order to line the pockets of the asshole university administration, and seeing as every job I have done post graduation of college I could've done post high school graduation, as well as the fact that some of the stupidest people in life I've met were in college, I beyond the shadow of a doubt think that university could be largely, albeit not completely done without. (obviously doctors, rocket scientists, etc. need that higher education)

So ultimately, those factors played into my desire to shirk academic responsibilities due largely to an overall perceived flaw in the system as well as the systems utter inability to make me feel intellectually engaged in any sort of meaningful way for any substantial and consistent time frame. I preferred my hobbies like creative writing, philosophical musings, debate club, doing MMA, playing guitar, poker, and all the crap most people only dream about doing for a living. Yes I know diligence would've been more logical but I've honestly enjoyed myself more this way.
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H
God said:
So you believe what everyone tells you?
Click to expand...
I've also observed it in myself.

Is that really the hallmark of intelligence? :wink:
Click to expand...
To be deemed "most" intellectual by others? Perhaps?



"I did not CHOSE" <--- * choose

:tongue:
Click to expand...
Typological error; give my aged and pain-stricken - potentially arthritic - fingers a break. . .

P.S. If these people are anything like me, they're just playing dumb/kissing ass
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Possibly; others are clearly not intelligent enough to do so.

to get in your good graces and to get you off-guard
Click to expand...
I am never off-guard. I do not even trust my own mother, much less he whom I consider my sole friend.

Yeah, you better eat them.
Click to expand...
You, too?
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D
HannibalLecter said:
I've also observed it in myself.
Click to expand...
But not in others...in its entirety.


HannibalLecter said:
To be deemed "most" intellectual by others? Perhaps?
Click to expand...
He-said she-said is not a reliable indicator of intelligence, even if it's everyone-said. There was a time when everyone believed the earth was flat. Well, they were wrong weren't they.

HannibalLecter said:
Typological error; give my aged and pain-stricken - potentially arthritic - fingers a break. . .
Click to expand...
*snaps off your fingers entirely* There! No arthritis to deal with anymore. :p

(...and now you can't kill me hehehehehehe...)

HannibalLecter said:
Possibly; others are clearly not intelligent enough to do so.
Click to expand...
But what if, in terms of IQ:
dumb ones < you < sneaky ones?

Dumb ones don't matter. But the liars could be more intelligent than you. They managed to fool you, right? :crazy:

HannibalLecter said:
I am never off-guard.
Click to expand...
Psh. Puhlease. Your fingers were. :p

HannibalLecter said:
You, too?
Click to expand...
My blood alcohol content is far too high to be beneficial to your liver. Unless you like REDRUM.
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S
God said:
NOTE: For ease of communication, I will speak in absolute generalities. I'm not saying these issues apply to ALL NTs.

One huge pattern I notice with NTs is that they think they're more intelligent than most people. Intellectually superior. They're always making condescending comments about people in general - about how they're all such imbeciles, how they can't comprehend anything intellectual, how they "feel like they have to talk down to them because they are unable to understand what I'm saying". (Boasting hidden under the guise of bemoaning)

Why is that? If you have that attitude - do you realize that OTHER NTs are probably thinking of you as one of "the stupid humans"?

1. THEORY UNO

Do you guys mistakenly believe that you're more intelligent than other people because you SEE and are AWARE of ALL of your own mental capacities, but you cannot see the full capacity of others? You only see the other person's intelligence if they externalize it to you. You don't know what they're thinking or how much intellectual capacity they have - it's all in their heads.

(To put it another way, you see 100% of your own intelligence, but only 25% of an outsider's intelligence. So you mistakenly believe that you're 4 times as intelligent as the other person.)

2. THEORY DOS

Perhaps they're not talking about biomechanics or genetic theory. It doesn't mean the person's stupid. It just means one or both of two things:

- They never received the education that would even provide a foundation to ever learn about such complex subjects in science/technology/etc.
- They understand the value of niche effort. Leave the scientists to study science, and they'll focus on whatever their expertise is. When people focus on their strengths and current capabilities, there's much more leverage to achieve more - both individually and professionally.

-----------------------

And how do you even define or judge intelligence anyway? Has everybody you've ever known taken a professionally-administered IQ test? And if NTs are hypothetically superior, and are 25% of the population, then they're only "smarter than" 75% of the population. What's that, an IQ of 110? That's still under the range of "average intelligence". And don't start on standard deviations and all that, because that's not the point. My point is to demonstrate that MOST NTs aren't really all THAT mentally extraordinary. They just tend to channel whatever intelligence they have into "intellectual activities".

So why the arrogance? It's so rampant I'm beginning to wonder if I'm not a humble NF or a down-to-earth SP. {/rant}
Click to expand...
Am I the only one amused by the irony of this post from someone with such an omniscient username?
:crazy:
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L
You know, when I was a kid I was a big intellectual snob. I definitely performed better academically than most of my peers, and to me that equated intelligence. As I got older and lost a lot of my interest in being super academically competitive, I started to find intelligence in many places. By high school the amount of snobbery from the other honors kids became incredibly distasteful.

Now, I do believe that morons exist. But I think (and I know, it's hard to wrap your mind around this) most people are about equally intelligent and just apply their intelligence in different ways to different things. About equal... some people are more intelligent than others, but certainly the smarter people are not so much smarter than everyone else that they are "above" anyone. And frequently the "less intelligent" people are a lot better at making friends and not being an asshole than the "smart people."

Anyway, I think being an intellectual snob represents a lack of understanding of other people. Which is an intellectual deficiency, so it all levels out. If that makes sense.

And a note on IQ: it's BS. You can't objectively measure someone's intelligence. I've never taken a professional one but I've taken a couple online and consistently gotten extremely high scores, especially for my age level. But who gives a shit if I can identify which shape comes next in the pattern or figure out analogies really well? Aren't real, practical skills and abilities a thousand times more important but are completely ignored in these kinds of test?
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Turelie
God said:
So why the arrogance? It's so rampant I'm beginning to wonder if I'm not a humble NF or a down-to-earth SP. {/rant}
Click to expand...
First, your post is all kinds of win, and I've been wondering about it too.

Second, I've also wonder if I'm an NF or SP as a result. I just can't relate to the whole "inferior people" thing...Not saying ALL NTs are that way, but that is what shows up a lot.
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Vaka
Pika said:
Second, I've also wonder if I'm an NF or SP as a result. I just can't relate to the whole "inferior people" thing...Not saying ALL NTs are that way, but that is what shows up a lot.
Click to expand...
I was reading your posts on this thread by someone trying to decide if they were an INFJ or an INTP, and it seemed as if you were typing yourself mostly by descriptions. I don't really think descriptions or saying things like 'I can't really fit in with the elitist NT types' are good ways of typing yourself. Cognitive functions are much more reliable.

Anyway, I haven't really seen that a lot of NTs have that kinda cognition to where they somehow look down on others. If so, then many are just not explicit about it.
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