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Obama INTP not ENTP?

[INTP] 
8K views 90 replies 29 participants last post by  IENTP 
#1 ·


What do you think?
 
#9 ·
The reason I posted that video specifically is because you can see him in a somewhat different light than usually. His public persona is one thing, but I think he's revealed a bit more of himself in that conversation. I see Ti. Lots of it. He's definitely not an ENTJ. And he's not a great leader and organizer. I like him as a person, but as a leader he's kind of too mellow.
 
#22 ·
I don't know Obama enough to type him, but I think the OP here is just trolling you...
Well, that s being said, I am astonished by how much you guys got out of the equation that people have the ability to improve/control themselves especially in short periods of time which a video is exactly about.
 
#27 ·
Obama to me seems to clearly be an ESTP. He focuses on coming up with solutions for short sighted more immediate goals and focuses more on just achieving those goals of his rather than how he goes about it.

The secondary function of ESTP, is ENFJ, which goes along with what his goals, values, beliefs, ideals... his bigger picture goals fits in with FeNi, things like healthcare and education for everyone, he seems to see the larger picture through an F lens and go about things through a T... to me his mind seems to be much more focus on achieving goals than developing those larger ideas, and to me he seems to go about it in a very ESTP manner.
 
#28 ·
Obama to me seems to clearly be an ESTP. He focuses on coming up with solutions for short sighted more immediate goals and focuses more on just achieving those goals of his rather than how he goes about it.

The secondary function of ESTP, is ENFJ, which goes along with what his goals, values, beliefs, ideals... his bigger picture goals fits in with FeNi, things like healthcare and education for everyone, he seems to see the larger picture through an F lens and go about things through a T... to me his mind seems to be much more focus on achieving goals than developing those larger ideas, and to me he seems to go about it in a very ESTP manner.
This is what all politicians do. If politicians were interested in long-term solutions, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in.
 
#34 ·
Obama is definitely an introvert. I personally know someone who knew him and they were unequivocal about this. They said he was extremely private, distant, and reserved. He has been accused of the same qualities by other politicians since becoming President. Being a good public speaker does not make you an extrovert.

He is definitely an N. He is an intellectual focused on big ideas and change, but he's not quite as good at implementing practical solutions or handling details. He was also a law professor. Highly unlikely job for an S.

He is definitely a T. He is very emotionally detached, calm, logical, and dry in all his speeches. He is not even close to the impassioned speaker some imagine that leads to bizarre typings like ENFJ. In fact he is well-known for this emotional detachment and has said that he has been compared many times to Spock for it.

So that just leaves P and J. Based on his early life and the fact that he has said being organized and routinized is not his natural state, something that was very difficult but necessary to learn as President, I think he is definitely a P as well. He also takes a pretty hands-off, compromising, occasionally indecisive approach to governing, not at all the strict directive hierarchy you would expect from a TJ.

I think he is a very clear cut INTP personally.
 
#35 ·
He is definitely a T. He is very emotionally detached, calm, logical, and dry in all his speeches. He is not even close to the impassioned speaker some imagine that leads to bizarre typings like ENFJ.
I am inclined to agree that he's not an ENFJ. He just doesn't express himself as one. There's nothing in this interview to even remotely remind me of the ENFJ personality or way of talking.
 
#38 ·
He's not smart enough to be either. If Obama were INTP he'd would be much less Fe oriented, if he were ENTP he'd be funnier...

I think he's the buisness-man-like ENFJ. I know an ENFJ like that... They are very successful and very emotional and good at being in charge of people (at least they think they're good at it.)

Think about all the emotion oriented decisions he's made.
 
#39 · (Edited)
You may not agree with Obama, but he is extremely intelligent and that is a simple fact. You don't become a University of Chicago law professor if you're not. Never mind that intelligence does not determine type anyway.

Your description of a "business-man like ENFJ" does not apply to him at all either. And I can't think of one single emotion oriented decision he has ever made, let alone many. He is not "Fe oriented" in the slightest. In fact he has said the thing he hates most about being a politician is faking emotion.

But yes, go ahead and ignore all facts and everything I comprehensively covered in my above argument. You sure you're being "logical" yourself?

And everyone typing him as an extrovert of any sort, you are simply wrong. I am more confident of the fact that Obama is an introvert than anything else, which is saying something because I'm extremely confident about the other letters as well.

Lincoln was closer to ENTP or even an F type than Obama is, and yet Lincoln is near universally typed as INTP.
 
#42 ·
I see lots of similar behaviors between me and Obama. For example, when speaking, I would pause mid sentence to find an accurate word to use. I don't see this in Te users much, so Obama is probably Ti. His style of playfulness is very Ne-Ti, and I find myself making the same trollish smile when hearing/seeing something illogical. The only thing stopping me from bursting out laughing is my Fe. I think he's xNTP, more likely E because of his well developed Fe.
 
#44 · (Edited)
He looks like a J to me, so far perhaps an IXXJ. In this video below he is worried about efficiency, "customer friendly", improving how government internet systems work, cutting on bureaucracy to facilitate people, housing for people, generally focused on current problems, problems arising from past events, that can be fixed now. He is very people oriented by the way he talks. He also always mentions statistics in every video I've watched which shouts a Si. Si relies on statistics and past events and externalises them via external organising in a J person. Ni relies on vision created in one's internal world, not on past events. He could be an ISTJ in my opinion with a developed Fi or simply an ISFJ.

Here is a quote from the video:

"The one thing that I feel deeply about when I leave government is that stuff gets better if we work at it and stay focused on where we are going. It doesn't immediately get all solved. ......It's not just fix it. It's how do we work together to get things done and it will be imperfect but over time is it better? And here is the thing I can say John, I can say this unequivocally: The VA is better now than when I came into the office. Government works better than when I came into the office."

This screams an organiser and implementer to me, a very J one, organising the world around him and anticipating for future efficiency. He is surely not a P and thus neither an INTP or ENTP. And his J is pointing to either a judging Te or Fe. Question is whether Te/Fe are dominant or auxiliary. I can't even consider him a Ni. I definitely think he has a Si function in his two main functions. Therefore he is an ISTJ, ESTJ, ISFJ or ESFJ.

 
#49 ·
The video shows a lot of Fe and Ti
He can't have a lot of Fe and Ti at the same time. These two are opposing functions. If one is dominant, the other is very undeveloped. It's how the stuck works. E.g an INTP with a dominant Ti has barely any Fe. Thus they are perceived as a bit cold, not people oriented and surely won't care one bit to organise their workplace to improve efficiency for future substitutes.

On another hand, a dominant Fe type has a very undeveloped Ti, as it an opposing function. So it's one or the other.

Plus for him to be a Ti, he has to definitely be a P and in my opinion he is a very J person, including his well calculated career. A P would have jumped ships ten thousand times. Take for example John Adams. He became a president not because he planned his career ahead, but because of his visions and the opportunity arose while trying to achieve it. He was not very liked, i.e undeveloped Fe...can't connect with people and somewhat lacks people's skills. That's what happens to a lot of INTP and ENTP types in real life.
 
#62 ·
He can't have a lot of Fe and Ti at the same time. These two are opposing functions. If one is dominant, the other is very undeveloped. It's how the stuck works. E.g an INTP with a dominant Ti has barely any Fe. Thus they are perceived as a bit cold, not people oriented and surely won't care one bit to organise their workplace to improve efficiency for future substitutes.
On another hand, a dominant Fe type has a very undeveloped Ti, as it an opposing function. So it's one or the other.
Fe and Ti go hand in hand. If I say a lot of both, then you can do the math and put them at a similar level, and then put them in the auxiliary and tertiary positions in the stack. Then, you can have an ISFJ with Ti in his stack, stack which is (reminder) : Si-Fe-Ti-Ne ; with in bold, an introverted judging function in the stack.

Plus for him to be a Ti, he has to definitely be a P and in my opinion he is a very J person, including his well calculated career. A P would have jumped ships ten thousand times. Take for example John Adams. He became a president not because he planned his career ahead, but because of his visions and the opportunity arose while trying to achieve it. He was not very liked, i.e undeveloped Fe...can't connect with people and somewhat lacks people's skills. That's what happens to a lot of INTP and ENTP types in real life.
Half of the Ti users are xxxJs. All people with Ti as their main judging function are xxxPs. It's a little difference, but it's still a difference.
 
#51 ·
@IENTP He looks like a J to me, so far perhaps an IXXJ. In this video below he is worried about efficiency, "customer friendly", improving how government internet systems work, cutting on bureaucracy to facilitate people
.... That does not sound "J" to me at all. J's tend to think "if it's there, it works. If it doesn't work well, then let's make it work better." There is no tendency to upend establishments based on principle whatsoever. The establishments can be reorganized to better suite the principle at hand - but the principle has less effectiveness. Hence, efficiency vs. effectiveness.
 
#54 ·
Js main extraverted function is a judging function. It's very much about pushing their own internally perceived ideas onto others via implementation and organising. Js find it hard to function within a dysfunctional environment so a priority is to "fix" it. And Js need to implement to perfect their own ideas.

Ps have their introverted judging function stronger than their extraverted judging function. Extraverted judging functions focus on things that are sharable (results). Thus, many strong Js (i.e. extraverted judging function >> introverted judging function) think that the end justifies the means. Strong Ps, on the other hand, are more focused on the process and let the result happen almost "organically". Notice how Obama focuses on the direction a little more than the goals. That's P over J.

Ps can be doers. They just care more about the doing than the result. In other words, their expectations are not as solid as Js. Js would constantly compare the intermittent results with the expected result at the end. That's because they focus on things that can be shared (goals, expectations, etc).
Would you care to share a concrete example which one of a P type's function is an extraverted judging function?
P stands for extraverted perceiving. Whichever their main extraverted function, it's a perceiving one, i.e assimilates information externally.

A true P if typed correctly is not a doer, they are thinkers and will think ten times before doing, and will do when push comes to shove or when the opportunity is best. They don't need to implement in order to perfect their ideas unlike J types.
 
#61 ·
Because Te/Fe focus on thoughts/feelings that can be shared (objective). Results are simpler and thus easier to share than process. I will stop at this level of abstraction unless you want to go deeper.
I get your point. You are looking from a different angle and I from another.

For example:
INTJs, INFJs, are Ni dominant and extravert Te and Fe respectfully. You are saying they focus on thoughts/feelings that can be shared (objective). That all they share is results and results are simpler to share than process. You made their dominant Ni function a thinking function but it's not.
INTJs, INFJs I think focus on their internal world to derive their ideas which is a subjective world, introverted perceiving intuition in this case, and execute/judge/think over that idea by extraverted judging such as Te or Fe. They don't externalize the result. They externalize the thinking process, and as such they may express themselves better than a Ti dom such as INTPs.

INTP's thought process is introverted, thus I get why you say "Ps focus more on process than result". But what you say is only what it looks like to the outside world, not what actually is.
What Ps focus on in case of an INTP is introverted logical thinking which can also be very much result driven as any thinking process. But they don't communicate that process externally. What you see from an INTP externally is their extraverted perceiving intuition which may seem a bit like "processing" without driving for results. However, for a P it's as easy getting results as it is for a J. And a P is as much result driven as is a J, but gets the result in a different way.
 
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