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Discussion Starter #1
I've been called observant and sometimes I actually bother to pay attention to pointless shite.

IE when my aunt pulled my first tooth out when I was 6.

I remember it was 5:39 and she had on green nail polish.

Does this mean I'm not an ENFP cause I'm so observant?
 

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What you described here seems more of a memory from the past than observation. Se/Si.
 
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I've been called observant and sometimes I actually bother to pay attention to pointless shite.

IE when my aunt pulled my first tooth out when I was 6.

I remember it was 5:39 and she had on green nail polish.

Does this mean I'm not an ENFP cause I'm so observant?
We're not known for being particularly aware of immediate sensory details, dates, times and such since Se is not one of our main functions. We are scanners though because we tend to focus on people and their motives... depends on what you're prone to observing I guess. The example you gave isn't enough to draw a conclusion from.
 

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We're not known for being particularly aware of immediate sensory details, dates, times and such since Se is not one of our main functions. We are scanners though because we tend to focus on people and their motives... depends on what you're prone to observing I guess. The example you gave isn't enough to draw a conclusion from.
I'm not sure, because I'm amazing at noticing what's going on around me. I think I have high Se though.
Example:
I was at the shops and noticed a man was struggling to get a self service machine to work. I then let him in front of me in the queue because he was technically already ahead and so shouldn't have to queue again.

I was out and saw a worm on the ground so moved it to the grass, when most people didn't see it and walked past.

Saw a good deal on in a bookshop I walked past.

Have a good memory for things I've seen that I thought someone might be interested in. Generally I forget the place, but remember what it looked like or the cost XD awkward!

However!
I'm terrible with directions without a map and can't remember where things are.

I forget things really quickly.

I have a bad memory especially for things that don't interest me.
 

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My memory is a weird thing. There are trivial details that stick out in my head sometimes, but there are plenty of obvious things in my environment that I don't notice.

I'm terrible with directions until I've travelled a route multiple times. I can't remember how things look, which gives me a lot of grief as someone who draws. @Bumblyjack recently posted about not being able to learn dance moves from watching a demonstration, about needing to practice them a bajillion times himself in order to learn them; I'm the same way. As a child, I'd often be lost in thought and not notice people calling my name. I'll not notice a storefront I've walked a hundred times if nothing about it particularly interests me.

That said, I remember napping on blue mats when I was in 2. I remember my babysitter when I was 3 had a black cat and an alarm system installed and a rather dark apartment. And that my grandfather, who died when I was two, used to rub his hands together and say "wootzel wootzel wootzel" (probably an Austrian thing). I remember seeing a car with the license plate "033ZRL" in maybe third grade, because I thought it sounded like "odory Cinderella." (And yes, I realize now that "odory" isn't a word.) I often notice things in my environment that look aesthetically awesome that other people don't notice (shadows, detailing on a building, etc).
 

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I can tap into Si or Se mode, but it requires an immense amount of focus and a clear mind space. Shit, this is harder to explain than I thought x) I literally have to clear my mind of all random jumblies and find a quiet, peaceful, centered space in my mind. When I'm immensely focused, I can pick up on details. I'm not always, usually, or even sometimes like this naturally. I have to make a conscious effort to do such things. Does this make sense?
 

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I can tap into Si or Se mode, but it requires an immense amount of focus and a clear mind space. Shit, this is harder to explain than I thought x) I literally have to clear my mind of all random jumblies and find a quiet, peaceful, centered space in my mind. When I'm immensely focused, I can pick up on details. I'm not always, usually, or even sometimes like this naturally. I have to make a conscious effort to do such things. Does this make sense?
Yes this makes perfect sense to me. This is why i edited my post and included both. I have such a lack of understanding for Si/Se i didn't know whether it made more sense for one or the other. All i knew was that it was either or. One of these days i plan to study them more in detail, i honestly tried but became so bored i couldn't continue. Then again i have lots of plans that i will certainly never follow through with, so will likely be another one of those.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
What you described here seems more of a memory from the past than observation. Se/Si.
Yeah but even as my family was driving to our cabin I noticed everyone of the trees looked the same, we were on a hill, and other stuff... but I think I use Se and Si so ya idk
 

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I would never be able to recall details like that. The only time I feel my Si kick in is when a song reminds me of a feeling, but again, I rarely remember the events that lead to my associating that song with that feeling...but it still pops up when I hear the song.

Example: Bon Jovi's Bed of Roses. I heard it in the car one day and for some reason I felt really nostalgic. I couldn't figure out why, I don't particularly like the song, but for some reason it really resonated with me. The next time I heard it I was with my ESFJ friend. I said to her, "wow, for some reason, this song totally makes me feel kind of weird"...she said to me, "oh, yeah, that's the song you danced to at prom with [my first boyfriend]".

It was so weird, but as soon as she said it, I remembered. Still, I never would have if she hadn't mentioned it, I just would have gone on having a weird sense of nostalgia when the song came on the radio. XD
 

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Se isn't really about being observant. It's about context. Think of your Ne as taking in data in abstract context and Se as taking in data in concrete context. That's my super-simple explanation.

Taking things in concretely might cause you to notice more physical details, and it does put you very grounded in the physical world thus enjoying more physical stimulation. But any person can be observant. That's more of a habit you pick up over your lifetime. I'm extremely un-observant, actually. It's actually a common joke about how little I notice things right in front of my face.
 

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Se isn't really about being observant. It's about context. Think of your Ne as taking in data in abstract context and Se as taking in data in concrete context. That's my super-simple explanation.
Does this concrete data mean what actually is in front of you ? Something that is tangible that can been touched or seen with the human eye ? Something that can be drawn in picture form if need be ? I'm trying to understand it . I know Ne in the abstract is visions of different elements coming from different directions not being able to describe it using pictures, as it doesn't really have a concrete face or image. It just is.
 
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Does this concrete data mean what actually is in front of you ? Something that is tangible that can been touched or seen with the human eye ? Something that can be drawn in picture form if need be ? I'm trying to understand it . I know Ne in the abstract is visions of different elements coming from different directions not being able to describe it using pictures, as it doesn't really have a concrete face or image. It just is.
Yeah, you're on the right track. an ISTP can use Ni to make those intangible conclusions, but since Se is auxiliary, we strongly prefer the straightforward and tangible. An ENFP make those intangible conclusions naturally and has to use Te to try to explain it to another person which is why it can be annoying for the ENFP to explain it in the same way that having to use Ni can be annoying to the ISTP. I have found when you use that third function, it needs to come from somewhere inspired and not forced. Otherwise it makes the user pissy. ;)
 

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Yeah, you're on the right track. an ISTP can use Ni to make those intangible conclusions, but since Se is auxiliary, we strongly prefer the straightforward and tangible. An ENFP make those intangible conclusions naturally and has to use Te to try to explain it to another person which is why it can be annoying for the ENFP to explain it in the same way that having to use Ni can be annoying to the ISTP. I have found when you use that third function, it needs to come from somewhere inspired and not forced. Otherwise it makes the user pissy. ;)
Exactly. And this is why i frown upon using details, because in my mind its so crystal , i can't image how the other isn't seeing it the same way i am. Ne jumps around so much that we forget that not everyone can see what we see. Ne tends to leave out details that may or may not help a person understand the angle, yet at the same time i don't believe that even if i tried to give those concrete details when explaining it coming from Te , i could. When trying to explain it using Te it can become a hot mess real fast ;)...because something abstract can also appear contradicting depending on what angle its coming from, the angle can change so quickly, by the time Ne reachs a new perspective our Te has already stated it to be Xor Y. This seems to be very common with DOM Ne. Leading the user to become pissy having to try and explain things they themselves have a difficult time with. We can't give those concrete images in order to back up what we see, or what angle its coming from. This may not make sense as it can be hard to really explain.
 

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Exactly. And this is why i frown upon using details, because in my mind its so crystal , i can't image how the other isn't seeing it the same way i am. Ne jumps around so much that we forget that not everyone can see what we see. Ne tends to leave out details that may or may not help a person understand the angle, yet at the same time i don't believe that even if i tried to give those concrete details when explaining it coming from Te , i could. When trying to explain it using Te it can become a hot mess real fast ;)...because something abstract can also appear contradicting depending on what angle its coming from, the angle can change so quickly, by the time Ne reachs a new perspective our Te has already stated it to be Xor Y. This seems to be very common with DOM Ne. Leading the user to become pissy having to try and explain things they themselves have a difficult time with. We can't give those concrete images in order to back up what we see, or what angle its coming from. This may not make sense as it can be hard to really explain.
Mos def. Ne hates committing to one single explanation or possibility. Ti doesn't always trust the abstract or intangible and wants to make logical sense of it. Ti hates having more than one explanation....we want a solution...a conclusion...and absolute.

Se places us in a world of concrete, absolute sensation. the water is COLD. the air is HOT. my body is TIRED. the sky is BLUE.

Ne places you in a world of abstract possibilities and multiple solutions. And its more comfortable for you there.
I think thats why INTPs can spends HOURS and HOURS going over ideas and theories. The Ti drives them to make logic from the abstract.

And if I understand correctly, an ENFP isn't so much concerned with how Logical it is, so much as how Fi feels about it.
 

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Mos def. Ne hates committing to one single explanation or possibility. Ti doesn't always trust the abstract or intangible and wants to make logical sense of it. Ti hates having more than one explanation....we want a solution...a conclusion...and absolute.

Se places us in a world of concrete, absolute sensation. the water is COLD. the air is HOT. my body is TIRED. the sky is BLUE.

Ne places you in a world of abstract possibilities and multiple solutions. And its more comfortable for you there.
I really appreciate you explaining this to me. I just had a light bulb moment and can see your perspective so much clearer. Thank you, its a good day when you learn something new :) I must bookmark this to keep in mind when trying to communicate with ISTP.
 

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Hmm, I get a lot of "flashbulb" memories...Those really vivid memories where you remember every detail. Everybody does, thing is with me they're often for random and seemingly unimportant events. For me, my true "observation" tactics function in the social scene, especially the party. Where I'm talking to someone perfectly normally, but my attention is REALLY on the drama happening in the back of the room, in another conversation. Most people can't do that, but ENFPs can. Or so sayeth "Please Understand Me I" since it quotes that exact situation.
 

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I always like to think I'm observant until I'm telling stories of things that happened and I get the details all wrong and have absolutely no idea. And will argue about how I feel very strongly that the car we saw was blue, while everyone around me is assuring me that it was actually red.

I feel that my recollection of the past is crystal clear, but in reality it's shaky at best. I'm still not sure if that occurred when the instances happened in the first place (am I really that unobservant?) or somewhere along in the memory-storage process.

Either way. No. People who don't know me that well might see me as observant because I always present stories as if I remember them incredibly clearly (because I feel like I do), but the people who have known me longer see past that and can point out all the inaccuracies and call me on my BS.

This is partly why I journal so much. I like to have actual records of things happening so people (myself included) don't think I'm making them up in a few days, months, years.
 

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I've been called observant and sometimes I actually bother to pay attention to pointless shite.

IE when my aunt pulled my first tooth out when I was 6.

I remember it was 5:39 and she had on green nail polish.

Does this mean I'm not an ENFP cause I'm so observant?
Not at all! I have a high Se too. I notice the weirdest things, and I can usually remember things like times as well. I remember most details about what person was wearing when I first met them, or what day it was. Things like that.

It's just a little odd for an ENFP, but we are used to being weird :p
 

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I'm told that I have an extremely good memory, to a specific degree. I couldn't tell you what I was wearing on my first day of fifth grade, but I could tell you how I annoyed the class incessantly because I kept making suggestions about how we could do things different. I can remember what certain people said to me, or looks I received from certain people (more remembering how the look made me feel, so it's a slightly easier recall). I can remember what I do, but the details around me are always fuzzy... if that makes sense? I think the more I feel regarding a situation and can bring up the feeling, the more I can recall the memory. Hrm... wow I just realized this ^^;.

I barely pay attention to my surroundings. It's unusual for me to catch something that has changed, or remember something I have seen for only a few seconds. Like yesterday at work a customer asked me to get her a cart, I had to charge around the store just to find one. I told her to wait right where she talked to me.... once I found a cart I went back to her location and I could not remember for the life of me what she looked like. I was annoyed because it was a pointless quest, and my lack of remembering sensory detail failed me.

I also have a tendency to trip and bump into objects that I have been around for many years. My dad is always teasing me over this!! I don't know if my head is in the clouds or what :laughing:.
 
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