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Spotlight March 2016
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I'm not one to jump on the trend wagon, but I'm curious about this particular dichotomy.

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Yielding Types


Resources are 'sacred', but ideas are freely shared and manipulated
Easily aware of the boundaries between their and others' interests.
Protect their resources to the point of conflict, and their reaction may be unduly strong
"If I know I can't do something, I won't and will forget all about it."

Obstinate Types


Ideas are 'sacred', but resources are freely shared and manipulated.
Easily aware of the boundaries between their and others' resources.
Guard their interests from intrusions, and their reaction to such intrusions may be quite sharp.
"I won't abandon my interests just because my resources are inadequate, but simply work towards improving my resources until they ARE adequate."

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What are 'resources' in this context? 'Ideas'? Well... I can maybe understand a little bit better.

For example-- I'm a fairly generous person. I will buy things for friends/family members without blinking an eyelash, and it can be quite expensive. Somehow, I don't think that 'resources' refers to this, but it may, and it leaves me to wonder. I'm also very giving with my ideas, though. And it has been pointed out that I am a very obvious 'yielding' type.

But, I am left to wonder-- What is it that I see as 'sacred', and/or rare enough to guard? That's the impression I'm getting from this dichotomy. Honestly, I doubt I really hold anything back, unless I'm uninterested, or lazy.

And then there's the quotes at the end-- I'm not sure if either really applies to me. I would say that I have difficulty admitting that there are things I can't do. But, I don't wait around. I generally move onto other things if the situation is too difficult, and plan to return to them later.

Sometimes I don't return to them at all, but not because I have the audacity to have a thought so certain as, "I won't return to this." There are no such certainties in my thought process. Just half-certainties, shades of truths that sometimes bubble up to the surface, to be snatched up at any particular time that it occurs to me to do so.

Such as with my interest in advanced mathematics-- It's something I'd like to do well, and it's quite difficult for me. I keep returning to it, but on rare occasions when I have the inspiration. I refuse to welcome the thought that it's something I won't do, or can't do, and never return to.

I tend to be resilient and persistant, but in a fairly scattered and unfocused way. (If that makes any sense at all?)

I think I've heard that this dichotomy is not a reliable or discerning factor, but I'm still curious, as is my nature to be. :kitteh:
 

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@Word Dispenser

I think "ideas" and "resources" are misleading terms here (especially "ideas"). Dunno, maybe loose translation should be blamed, but "ideas" here are meant to be "goals", "concerns", "interests", while "resources" are "means", "facilities", "instruments" that help to implement, achieve or in other way attain those "goals", "concerns", "interests".

Exaggerated example.

Some crazy maggot bit an obstinate type guy and he decided to travel to Alpha Centauri. This became his dream and his goal and it doesn't matter that he doesn't have money, starship or opportunity to receive an appropriate training for a flight. These are just "resources". He will wait and hope to acquire them in due course, while "idea" to travel to Alpha Centauri will remain unshakable.

Yielding type, who doesn't have necessary "resources" for such a trip just as the obstinate guy, on the other hand will think: "Hey, yeah, Alpha Centauri is kinda fancy, but Rings of Saturn aren't any worse. Let's repair my old cruiser and take a flight." So, here is the opposite thought process - "ideas" or "goals" don't bear crucial significance, but are shaped according to available "resources". Yielding type may think that there's nothing they can't achieve, but, I think, they tend to set (consciously or subconsciously) those goals which are attainable for them in the first place, on the basis of "resources" they have.

Basically it's division between orientation on goals ("My goals are super important and I'll wait till I have enough means to achieve them") and orientation on means ("My means are super important and I'll make the best of them"). So, as you can see this has nothing to do with being a miser or a spender. At least this is how I interpret this stuff. The way how it presented here I relate more to yielding types, but I remember reading another explanation that was based on the position of Ti in Model A and there I clearly been obstinate, so... who knows. We've been introduced to Reinin so as to never stop our types reevaluation.:ghost:
OMG! New fun smileys!:typingneko:
 

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For me its like this. I have an idea and I want to do it, but I can't because I don't have the right tools, experience or knowledge. This then prompts me to learn the theory involved, work and acquire the necessary tools, put the two together and gain experience till I have all the resources required in order to fulfill my idea.

If I want to do something and I can't at the time, I will damn make sure I can sometime in the future :p... time is my most valuable resource. With enough time I can "buy" other resources through my actions.

For example photography. I have been learning and practicing for a year now. Did I suck in the beginning? Sure. Do I want to make money from it? You bet! (obstinate) Every day I get closer to that goal. I may not have a clear cut plan, I may make it up as I go :p, but I'll get there one way or another. (result orientation)
 

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Spotlight March 2016
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Discussion Starter #4
@To_august: Aah, okay.. I get it now. Yay. :kitteh:

It's kinda like that year when I wanted to move and/or teach English in China. It became this really inspired, passionate goal, but as soon as I realized that I didn't have the means, I just let it go. I mean, it was kinda hard to let it go, in a way, but it was necessary, and it's no longer a goal at all. And then I moved onto Japan. And then I moved onto not moving at all. XD

And huzzah for new emoticons! This appears to be the Year of the Emoticon. :fall:
 

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This dichotomy is strange to me because whether I hold onto a goal when I lack the resources varies depending on how important it is to me and how difficult it would be to acquire the resources to get there. Does anyone really always lean one way or the other? Isn't decision-making always a matter of weighing factors?
 

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This is how I get it :

Yielding : You have tons of projects, ideas, goals. But not the ressources. You'll find an idea, start working on the project, and then you notice that you cannot do it. Either you will lower you standards, or you will give up, and try to find another idea. Ressources are king, and they determine the success or failer of the project.

Obstinate : NO, you don't care about ressources. The most important thing is the goal. Once you have it, you will easily find the way to collect ressources to do it. Here, the ressources aren't the criteria of success, like for Yielding types. Ressources are just the servant, not the king.

:starbucks:
 

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The way I see it is this:

Low desire, Low resources ("I sort of want it, but it would be really hard to get") --> Abandon goal
Low desire, High resources ("I sort of want it, and it would be really easy to get") --> Pursue goal if desire > cost/difficulty
High desire, Low resources ("It would be really hard to get, but I want it really badly") --> Pursue goal if desire > cost/difficulty
High desire, High resources ("I want it really badly, and it would be easy to get") --> Pursue goal

Where do "yielding" and "obstinate" come into play? I don't see any space for them. Maybe I am just not looking in the right place, I don't know.
 

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Yielding and obstinate would have their names flip-flopped depending upon how you are valuing things. The translation and word choices are horrible on this. I looked at it some earlier. When I get off work, I will try and decipher wth this is talking about and explain.
 

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Here's a key question for this dichotomy:

"Would you proceed with/start a romantic relationship even if you couldn't afford it?"

Y
N
 

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I always saw this dichotomy as people who pursue what they want to do vs people who pursue what they're actually capable of doing.

Obstinate people are those who form personal attachments to their interests and hobbies. They will continue to pursue their interests, even if what they need to follow their interests and hobbies isn't readily available. Obstinate types won't give up on interests, but postpone them until they have what's needed to continue their pursuit.

Yielding being the opposite here; people who form personal attachments to their resources. If they know they can't pursue something then they don't, instead they'll adjust their interests until they find something they can do with what they have, and then pursue it.

"Resources" could be defined better, but I've always assumed that it roughly means "stuff we have that we can use"; time, money, abilities and skills, etc. etc.

Here's a key question for this dichotomy:

"Would you proceed with/start a romantic relationship even if you couldn't afford it?"
... are you having a romantic relationship with a prostitute? Its only with prostitutes that "romance" costs so much. :wink:
 

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... are you having a romantic relationship with a prostitute? Its only with prostitutes that "romance" costs so much. :wink:
Don't be foolish. It costs with everyone(not as much but still).

Judging from the way you said that, you're clearly obstinate. Which is as it should be for an IEE.

NEXT!
 

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@Word Dispenser

I think "ideas" and "resources" are misleading terms here (especially "ideas"). Dunno, maybe loose translation should be blamed, but "ideas" here are meant to be "goals", "concerns", "interests", while "resources" are "means", "facilities", "instruments" that help to implement, achieve or in other way attain those "goals", "concerns", "interests".

Exaggerated example.

Some crazy maggot bit an obstinate type guy and he decided to travel to Alpha Centauri. This became his dream and his goal and it doesn't matter that he doesn't have money, starship or opportunity to receive an appropriate training for a flight. These are just "resources". He will wait and hope to acquire them in due course, while "idea" to travel to Alpha Centauri will remain unshakable.

Yielding type, who doesn't have necessary "resources" for such a trip just as the obstinate guy, on the other hand will think: "Hey, yeah, Alpha Centauri is kinda fancy, but Rings of Saturn aren't any worse. Let's repair my old cruiser and take a flight." So, here is the opposite thought process - "ideas" or "goals" don't bear crucial significance, but are shaped according to available "resources". Yielding type may think that there's nothing they can't achieve, but, I think, they tend to set (consciously or subconsciously) those goals which are attainable for them in the first place, on the basis of "resources" they have.

Basically it's division between orientation on goals ("My goals are super important and I'll wait till I have enough means to achieve them") and orientation on means ("My means are super important and I'll make the best of them"). So, as you can see this has nothing to do with being a miser or a spender. At least this is how I interpret this stuff. The way how it presented here I relate more to yielding types, but I remember reading another explanation that was based on the position of Ti in Model A and there I clearly been obstinate, so... who knows. We've been introduced to Reinin so as to never stop our types reevaluation.:ghost:
OMG! New fun smileys!:typingneko:
:star:
 

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For me its like this. I have an idea and I want to do it, but I can't because I don't have the right tools, experience or knowledge. This then prompts me to learn the theory involved, work and acquire the necessary tools, put the two together and gain experience till I have all the resources required in order to fulfill my idea.

If I want to do something and I can't at the time, I will damn make sure I can sometime in the future :p... time is my most valuable resource. With enough time I can "buy" other resources through my actions.

For example photography. I have been learning and practicing for a year now. Did I suck in the beginning? Sure. Do I want to make money from it? You bet! (obstinate) Every day I get closer to that goal. I may not have a clear cut plan, I may make it up as I go :p, but I'll get there one way or another. (result orientation)
As another IEE, completely second this!
 

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Oh, I think I just had a good way to think of obstinate/yielding.

What do you do when you're late to class?

Let me anecdote for a bit: I have a 9am class that I'm always late to. Every single day, I get my coffee, no matter how late it makes me. I don't sacrifice my lifestyle and happiness for the sake of long term benefits.

In my mind:

utility(being late) > utility(no coffee)

(since these both are negative utility functions; so basically, even though i use utility in both, i lose less utility from being late with coffee than being less later without coffee. now i want to make a formula for this....)
 

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Oh, I think I just had a good way to think of obstinate/yielding.

What do you do when you're late to class?

Let me anecdote for a bit: I have a 9am class that I'm always late to. Every single day, I get my coffee, no matter how late it makes me. I don't sacrifice my lifestyle and happiness for the sake of long term benefits.
Shit, I wish I could be like that. Being late to class is like DEATH. :(

utility (shame and self-loathing) > utility (15 min sleep) ????
 

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Spotlight March 2016
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Discussion Starter #16
What do you do when you're late to class?
RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN.

Or walk.

Depending on how tired I am, and probably other variables...

In my case, it's not class. It's work. I send a text as soon as I know I'll be late, and then I try to arrive as quickly as I can. Lateness is usually due to bus factors. Like changing the schedule without informing me -_-...

I really enjoy my job at the library now, so... I don't want to miss a minute!

But, even with jobs I didn't enjoy, being prompt seemed necessary. I'm kind of unnecessarily fickle about time. But, other things too. I like to be precise, just because I can. The same goes with measurements... If I'm weighing something for a recipe, I like to make it exact. I know it doesn't really matter, but it's kinda fun.

And I always get to the bus stop just as the bus is rolling in, so I can use my time before then to do things I enjoy.
 

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RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN.

Or walk.

Depending on how tired I am, and probably other variables...

In my case, it's not class. It's work. I send a text as soon as I know I'll be late, and then I try to arrive as quickly as I can. Lateness is usually due to bus factors. Like changing the schedule without informing me -_-...

I really enjoy my job at the library now, so... I don't want to miss a minute!

But, even with jobs I didn't enjoy, being prompt seemed necessary. I'm kind of unnecessarily fickle about time. But, other things too. I like to be precise, just because I can. The same goes with measurements... If I'm weighing something for a recipe, I like to make it exact. I know it doesn't really matter, but it's kinda fun.

And I always get to the bus stop just as the bus is rolling in, so I can use my time before then to do things I enjoy.
I'm not sure why, but it's different with jobs.

Wait, you're the same, haha. There aren't any consequences to being late for class. There are consequences to being late for work. Cue inferior Si where I try to perfect everything; being on time, etc. until I realize what I can get away with, hegh.
 

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Spotlight March 2016
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Discussion Starter #18
I'm not sure why, but it's different with jobs.

Wait, you're the same, haha. There aren't any consequences to being late for class. There are consequences to being late for work. Cue inferior Si where I try to perfect everything; being on time, etc. until I realize what I can get away with, hegh.
Well, I'm pretty much the same with class as I am with work, I think. But, sometimes I'd sleep in and come in late, and I recognized that based on the amount of time that had already gone by, it would be pointless to rush. Sometimes I'd rush anyway, though. I like to run. Why walk when you can run? There is a certain... Power... To having the choice to arrive 5 - 10 minutes earlier than you would have arrived, simply because you ran instead of walked. I don't even think I'm a particularly fast runner, but... :kitteh:
 

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@Word Dispenser

I think "ideas" and "resources" are misleading terms here (especially "ideas"). Dunno, maybe loose translation should be blamed, but "ideas" here are meant to be "goals", "concerns", "interests", while "resources" are "means", "facilities", "instruments" that help to implement, achieve or in other way attain those "goals", "concerns", "interests".

Exaggerated example.

Some crazy maggot bit an obstinate type guy and he decided to travel to Alpha Centauri. This became his dream and his goal and it doesn't matter that he doesn't have money, starship or opportunity to receive an appropriate training for a flight. These are just "resources". He will wait and hope to acquire them in due course, while "idea" to travel to Alpha Centauri will remain unshakable.

Yielding type, who doesn't have necessary "resources" for such a trip just as the obstinate guy, on the other hand will think: "Hey, yeah, Alpha Centauri is kinda fancy, but Rings of Saturn aren't any worse. Let's repair my old cruiser and take a flight." So, here is the opposite thought process - "ideas" or "goals" don't bear crucial significance, but are shaped according to available "resources". Yielding type may think that there's nothing they can't achieve, but, I think, they tend to set (consciously or subconsciously) those goals which are attainable for them in the first place, on the basis of "resources" they have.

Basically it's division between orientation on goals ("My goals are super important and I'll wait till I have enough means to achieve them") and orientation on means ("My means are super important and I'll make the best of them"). So, as you can see this has nothing to do with being a miser or a spender. At least this is how I interpret this stuff. The way how it presented here I relate more to yielding types, but I remember reading another explanation that was based on the position of Ti in Model A and there I clearly been obstinate, so... who knows. We've been introduced to Reinin so as to never stop our types reevaluation.:ghost:
OMG! New fun smileys!:typingneko:
This explanation blends into the Tactical/Strategic dichotomy.

The Yielding guy in your example sounds tactical (shaping goals according to means) while the other guy sounds strategic (not letting go of his goals).

How would a "yielding" "strategist" behave in comparison to "obstinate" "tactician"?
 

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This explanation blends into the Tactical/Strategic dichotomy.

The Yielding guy in your example sounds tactical (shaping goals according to means) while the other guy sounds strategic (not letting go of his goals).

How would a "yielding" "strategist" behave in comparison to "obstinate" "tactician"?
I wouldn't say that tactical types shape goals according to means. Under means I meant actual instruments or resources that are available, whereas tacticians, not being focused on some long-term perspective itfp, are more concerned with methods and local options that can be used in tactical maneuvers, that will shape the result eventually. The yielding guy may seem tactical, but I wanted to highlight the distinction that interest is evoked on the basis of available resources. So, both people actually happened to be strategists (personal bias noted).

If we'll add tactical/strategic to expand my example:

Yielding tactician - has higher awareness of resources available (yielding) and options, nearest steps/actions that can be taken (tactician), at the same time has lower awareness of interest (yielding) and long-term perspectives/goals (tactician) (interest and long-term perspectives are out of focus) -> I can take this tank and attach the booster here, and tweak this valve a bit, or better not, better I'll leave this valve and take care of power pumps, and I should not forget about landing gears, but I will get to cable wrapping first. Outer space trips seem fun, so we'll see where this assembling thingy will lead me.

Yielding strategist - has higher awareness of resources available (yielding) and long-term perspectives/goals (strategist), at the same time has lower awareness of interest (yielding) and options, nearest steps/actions that can be taken (strategist) (interest and nearest steps are out of focus) -> I've just finished pilot training program and have an old cruiser that is in need of repair. Don't know what exactly to do about it atm, but after I finish it'll be able to fly as far as Rings of Saturn!

Obstinate tactician - has higher awareness of interest (obstinate) and options, nearest steps/actions that can be taken (tactician), at the same time has lower awareness of resources available (obstinate) and long-term perspectives/goals (tactician) (resources and long-term perspectives are out of focus) -> I fancy Alpha Centauri. It's such a mesmerizing star! What have you said? I have neither starship, nor training, nor money for that? *head scratching* Well, I can borrow vehicle from my friend after he'll finish with the tweaking. He's still working on it, and it lasts for a couple years already... but anyway, he's a pilot and can help me. Not sure if his ship will be good for long-distance trips though, but once everything will be settled we'll get the clearer picture of our trip perspectives.

Obstinate strategist - has higher awareness of interest (obstinate) and long-term perspectives/goals (strategist), at the same time has lower awareness of resources available (obstinate) and options, nearest steps/actions that can be taken (strategist) (resources and nearest steps are out of focus)-> I want to get to Alpha Centauri! No, not to Beta Ceti or Eta Geminorum. I'm not going to change my mind just because I have enough resources for the the trip to the last two. Dunno what exactly to do right now about it, but I'll try and gather whatever I'll need to get where I want.
 
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