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Ode to the Nice Guys

This rant was written for the http://clubs.wharton.upenn.edu/fcpaper/index.html Wharton Undergraduate Journal

This is a tribute to the nice guys. The nice guys that finish last, that never become more than friends, that endure hours of whining and bitching about what assholes guys are, while disproving the very point. This is dedicated to those guys who always provide a shoulder to lean on but restrain themselves to tentative hugs, those guys who hold open doors and give reassuring pats on the back and sit patiently outside the changing room at department stores. This is in honor of the guys that obligingly reiterate how cute/beautiful/smart/funny/sexy their female friends are at the appropriate moment, because they know most girls need that litany of support. This is in honor of the guys with open minds, with laid-back attitudes, with honest concern. This is in honor of the guys who respect a girl’s every facet, from her privacy to her theology to her clothing style.

This is for the guys who escort their drunk, bewildered female friends back from parties and never take advantage once they’re at her door, for the guys who accompany girls to bars as buffers against the rest of the creepy male population, for the guys who know a girl is fishing for compliments but give them out anyway, for the guys who always play by the rules in a game where the rules favor cheaters, for the guys who are accredited as boyfriend material but somehow don’t end up being boyfriends, for all the nice guys who are overlooked, underestimated, and unappreciated, for all the nice guys who are manipulated, misled, and unjustly abandoned, this is for you.

This is for that time she left 40 urgent messages on your cell phone, and when you called her back, she spent three hours painstakingly dissecting two sentences her boyfriend said to her over dinner. And even though you thought her boyfriend was a chump and a jerk, you assured her that it was all ok and she shouldn’t worry about it. This is for that time she interrupted the best killing spree you’d ever orchestrated in GTA3 to rant about a rumor that romantically linked her and the guy she thinks is the most repulsive person in the world. And even though you thought it was immature and you had nothing against the guy, you paused the game for two hours and helped her concoct a counter-rumor to spread around the floor. This is also for that time she didn’t have a date, so after numerous vows that there was nothing “serious” between the two of you, she dragged you to a party where you knew nobody, the beer was awful, and she flirted shamelessly with you, justifying each fit of reckless teasing by announcing to everyone: “oh, but we’re just friends!” And even though you were invited purely as a symbolic warm body for her ego, you went anyways. Because you’re nice like that.

The nice guys don’t often get credit where credit is due. And perhaps more disturbing, the nice guys don’t seem to get laid as often as they should. And I wish I could logically explain this trend, but I can’t. From what I have observed on campus and what I have learned from talking to friends at other schools and in the workplace, the only conclusion I can form is that many girls are just illogical, manipulative bitches. Many of them claim they just want to date a nice guy, but when presented with such a specimen, they say irrational, confusing things such as “oh, he’s too nice to date” or “he would be a good boyfriend but he’s not for me” or “he already puts up with so much from me, I couldn’t possibly ask him out!” or the most frustrating of all: “no, it would ruin our friendship.” Yet, they continue to lament the lack of datable men in the world, and they expect their too-nice-to-date male friends to sympathize and apologize for the men that are jerks. Sorry, guys, girls like that are beyond my ability to fathom. I can’t figure out why the connection breaks down between what they say (I want a nice guy!) and what they do (I’m going to sleep with this complete ass now!). But one thing I can do, is say that the nice-guy-finishes-last phenomenon doesn’t last forever. There are definitely many girls who grow out of that train of thought and realize they should be dating the nice guys, not taking them for granted. The tricky part is finding those girls, and even trickier, finding the ones that are single.

So, until those girls are found, I propose a toast to all the nice guys. You know who you are, and I know you’re sick of hearing yourself described as ubiquitously nice. But the truth of the matter is, the world needs your patience in the department store, your holding open of doors, your party escorting services, your propensity to be a sucker for a pretty smile. For all the crazy, inane, absurd things you tolerate, for all the situations where you are the faceless, nameless hero, my accolades, my acknowledgement, and my gratitude go out to you. You do have credibility in this society, and your well deserved vindication is coming.

Fu-zu Jen, SEAS/WH, 2003
 

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This is great, i feel really good now ^^, thanks Heather ^^
 

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Discussion Starter #6
This is great, i feel really good now ^^, thanks Heather ^^
absolutely.. :crazy: Although I didn't write it I loved it and feel the same way as the writer to the nice guys so I wanted to share it.
 

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And even though you thought it was immature and you had nothing against the guy, you paused the game for two hours and helped her concoct a counter-rumor to spread around the floor.
That doesn't sound like a very nice thing to do!

From what I have observed on campus and what I have learned from talking to friends at other schools and in the workplace, the only conclusion I can form is that many girls are just illogical, manipulative bitches. Many of them claim they just want to date a nice guy, but when presented with such a specimen, they say irrational, confusing things such as “oh, he’s too nice to date” or “he would be a good boyfriend but he’s not for me” or “he already puts up with so much from me, I couldn’t possibly ask him out!” or the most frustrating of all: “no, it would ruin our friendship.” Yet, they continue to lament the lack of datable men in the world, and they expect their too-nice-to-date male friends to sympathize and apologize for the men that are jerks. Sorry, guys, girls like that are beyond my ability to fathom. I can’t figure out why the connection breaks down between what they say (I want a nice guy!) and what they do (I’m going to sleep with this complete ass now!).
I'm glad that I am not the only one puzzled by women like this! Personally I think part of the issue might be that they think the guy is too good for them. I don't think in such terms. If I am interested in someone it means that I like you for you, not for all the mistakes and problems in your past and present.
 

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I think the trick is being yourself, the nice guy, but still asserting yourself and not getting walked over. A happy Median. My problem is finding a girl lol =) oh and BTW AWESOME ARTICLE!!!!! lol i liked it
 

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*translation*

this is for all those guys who desperately hope that by being nice the girl will somehow choose them- because they've seen it in the movies and because they have little else to offer in the way of skills, strengths, assertiveness and how to treat women.
get real, noone NEEDS nice guys, a girl might vent to the guy and find him useful for that, but in reality that's not a need. nice guys serve no real function and they're better off either growing some balls or finding a girl who equally lives in fantasy land so that they are a good fit..

from- a guy who is one of the nicer people you could hope to meet in real life, but knows the reality behind "nice guys" and how pathetic 3/4 of them are *gags*.
 

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No offence but I not big on the nice guys.
I find it a little pathetic that they should be wasting their precious time here on Earth being human doormats. Grow some & live some or people will just walk over you. Plus I know so many "nice" guys turned wife beaters because they become self-pitying & oversensitive since they allow themselves to be walked over the whole time then blame everyone else. Waste of space man, don't feel sorry for them they feed off pity. Like feul on the fire. I do respect the fact that they are respectful to women though, I do believe a man should be respectful of woman. How can you respect someone though when they have no respect for their own rights & needs?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
No offence but I not big on the nice guys.
I find it a little pathetic that they should be wasting their precious time here on Earth being human doormats. Grow some & live some or people will just walk over you. Plus I know so many "nice" guys turned wife beaters because they become self-pitying & oversensitive since they allow themselves to be walked over the whole time then blame everyone else. Waste of space man, don't feel sorry for them they feed off pity. Like feul on the fire. I do respect the fact that they are respectful to women though, I do believe a man should be respectful of woman. How can you respect someone though when they have no respect for their own rights & needs?
I don't believe the writer of this article (and definitely not me for one) is referring to the nice guys who are secretly doing any of their "niceness" out of an ulterior motive or a selfish ambition... it and I are praising the real nice guys... the ones who are just nice... just because they are. More power to them.
 

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I don't believe the writer of this article (and definitely not me for one) is referring to the nice guys who are secretly doing any of their "niceness" out of an ulterior motive or a selfish ambition... it and I are praising the real nice guys... the ones who are just nice... just because they are. More power to them.
I have moved from the "nice guy" term and prefer "genuine guy". "Nice guy" is starting to get a negative stereotype because of the "ulterior motives"....
 

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I have moved from the "nice guy" term and prefer "genuine guy". "Nice guy" is starting to get a negative stereotype because of the "ulterior motives"....
Genuine guy is a very nice term. It says a lot in one word!
 

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I see myself as a "nice guy," but I kind of just put up with abuse because that's the way I am. If women prefer assertiveness over loyalty, that's their choice. I can meet my emotional needs in other ways.

I've never been an assertive person, and I can't give very practical advice, so maybe there is some truth to this "nice guy" rebuke. That being said, I don't like seeing the traits I exhibit in the opposite sex; I like to determination and assertiveness, so I can kind of see where some of this criticism might be coming from.

I do thing some of the retorts here are kind of cold, however. When I suspect people are manipulating me, I just let them do it because I don't see much reason in stopping them. I can see how some people might find this pathetic, but I guess that's just the way my head works.

But since I'm not sexually attrracted to people who are "nice," I can kind of relate to why most women wouldn't be attracted to men who are. I guess the arguement for these criticisms is there is justice in why these men aren't getting genuine romanticism or getting laid? I'm not sure about that. Maybe. Although these criticisms really sting, I can kind of see the truth in some of them. Maybe I don't have much to offer women in terms of practical psychological use (advice, instilling motivation, whatever), so I just kind offer myself as a service mat instead. Well if that's the way the world floats, than that's just the way it floats. I don't like seeing myself this way, but maybe that's all that really motivates men to be "nice" in the first place. I hope not.

Blah. I can't figure any of this out X( I feel like I'm trying to solidify something out of smoke, or whatever; but this discussion is bothering me very much. I'm not going to change who I am either way, even if the truth is I am nice because I have very little else to offer. But I would really like to see the truth of this situation more completely, and right now I can draw only very little conclusion.

I guess the only fact I can glean from this right now is: nobody wants a partner who's a wimp. I guess that's what my personatliy fault is, and finding a mate who is both assertive and very kind is probably a lot harder than than finding someone who possess both traits.

Plus I know so many "nice" guys turned wife beaters because they become self-pitying & oversensitive since they allow themselves to be walked over the whole time then blame everyone else.
I would probably be more inclined to harm myself than other people, if I ever reached that area of depression that encompasses total withdraw from the world. I'm kind of a natural-born quieter, and when I feel angry at people I just nurse my wounds and avoid them. I hope I would never do soemthing like this, but I'm not sure. But personally I think I'm more inclined to self-martyrdom than vinidiction.

So maybe this whole "nice guy" thing really is just the result of patheticness, but as a Roman writer once said, "there is nobody who ever lived, who had no faults." I guess I just kind of wanted to put that into perspective. I guess whether the "nice guy" or the "assertive guy" is better is just a matter of opinion. But if I never got into a relationship due to my nature, I think I'd be more inclined to sulk, blame it on the cosmos (or whatever), but overall just accept it as something unwanted that I had to live with. I wouldn't change who I really am, even if that means being coninually manipulated and overused. I'd just kind of see it as my "cross to bear," and society, and keep moving on, even if I think it's unfair. I guess I can see how people with much more willpower wouldn't choose this route.

So are "nice guys" good or bad? What does everyone here think?
 

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I'm not sure how this whole thread makes me feel. Sorry if I'm coming across as too much of an attention-whore, but I really need to know what other people think. I don't have a lot of social experience, so I can't say I know very much about real nice guys or fake nice guys.

Why is there such a negative attitude towards all this? I read somewhere that venting is not a need, but I believe it really is; we all need outlets for our emotions. I'm trying to understand why so many people on this thread think nice guys really suck. Is it because most of them are fake, or is it because of some Nietzschean morality that's being advocating but I'm not quite aware about? Sorry if the latter suggestion may seem kind of absurd, but maybe I see nothing wrong with meekness while other people on this thread seem to do.
 

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It's cause a lot of people are making the connection between niceness and weakness. If you are dbag, you aren't trying to compensate for something by being nice, hence being a dbag is being themselves, a true dbag. Someone made a comparison by "fake nice guys" and "real nice guys", I guess what they were searching for is.. why are they being nice? They must want something? You ever get the feeling where someone wants something from you and it just doesn't feel right? I tried to put myself in the shoes women wear, (I felt so gay doing this btw lol). But basically I think girls get this A LOT. And they are constantly trying to figure out the guys true intentions. Are they one being nice because they want sex. Or two being nice cause that's their nature. To take a step farther, and a step deeper. Just the situation about sex, and why girls seem to be a bit choosier at times. It's cause guys have "unlimited" ammo. Women get one bullet every 9 months. So if you had one bullet wouldn't you want to shoot at the right target? LOL. If guys miss and catch a dud it doesn't matter that much. They can reload in minutes... This of course not taking into account the financial situation, which are minds haven't exactly caught up to our primal urges yet. I bet at this point everyone is looking at this post and going what. Haha.
 
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