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I think it is about restoring trust in the relationship. If she, as an INFJ or any type, really, feels that you are willing to change or at least be up front, then chances are the relationship may be salvageable. I know that I would personally view this as a precursor to if not downright infidelity, whether or not that was the intent, so I don't view this as an easy road, whatever happens next.

If you really are committed to the relationship, it will take time to gain back trust and prove that you are willing to change to be the man of the type of character that she is looking for. But since she sounds extremely intuitive, you are going to have to be willing to make those changes not only for her but also for you because she will be able to tell if you are not being genuine.
 
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Discussion Starter #82
I think it is about restoring trust in the relationship. If she, as an INFJ or any type, really, feels that you are willing to change or at least be up front, then chances are the relationship may be salvageable. I know that I would personally view this as a precursor to if not downright infidelity, whether or not that was the intent, so I don't view this as an easy road, whatever happens next.

If you really are committed to the relationship, it will take time to gain back trust and prove that you are willing to change to be the man of the type of character that she is looking for. But since she sounds extremely intuitive, you are going to have to be willing to make those changes not only for her but also for you because she will be able to tell if you are not being genuine.
Thank you Beauty for Ashes for your constructive comment.
 

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Hmm, well, if this were me (and I'm an INFP/INFJ), I would want to see a serious commitment from the man to stop doing the thing that was bothering me so much. Like, counseling or working with a pastor or whatnot. Bring in a third party. Seek help.

But this is also hard for me to say because I don't think viewing porn constitutes anything requiring third party counseling, like sex addiction or abusive behavior or whatnot. But in her eyes it is that serious, so your response should be appropriately serious.

How did she find out though? Was she snooping? Because invading my privacy is probably the biggest, absolute worst thing someone could do.
 

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SonOfJack, you got so frustrated people weren't answering your question, but I think I did when I politely pointed out that INFJ or not, we are not all going to react the same and thus our "advice" or thoughts on whether or not you CAN "win her back" is useless. We don't know this girl personally.

You're essentially asking if you still have a chance with her--- HOW can any of us know that? If she says you don't, perhaps it's something you just have to accept.

Getting pushy and trying to "win someone back" who is obviously hurt is just going to add fuel to the fire. Give her time. Leave her alone. Maybe she will come back, maybe she won't but don't be selfish about your hurts when you hurt her-- respect that you hurt her and she wants to be alone right now.

For any guy that has gotten pushy with me after they hurt me-- it's never worked out for them, it made me twice as disgusted with them. Just sayin. It portrays selfishness...You're focusing on yourself, how YOU miss her, how YOU want her back, etc--- you're still continuing to disregard HER feelings.
 
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So what if it wasn't porn (which it was, and it doesn't matter if anyone here personally agrees with it or minds it, the OP's girlfriend clearly had an issue it)

What if she was a vegetarian, and it was important for her to have her SO share this value? If she caught him eating meat one time, maybe she could chalk it up to a craving, but if she made it clear that she wanted her SO to be on the same page with her about it and it was important to her to be with someone who shared this value, then so be it. Why pretend to be a vegetarian only to go sneaking around the person's back eating meat? There are some vegetarians who wouldn't care if their SO ate meat or not, but if this is an issue for someone, it's an issue. Would talking about how homo sapiens are made to eat meat and it's unnatural to be a vegetarian be helpful? If you feel this way about it, go eat meat to your heart's content. Go find yourself another meat eater. Just don't pretend you are something you are not. Don't pretend to share a value, lie about it, then go behind the person's back doing something you said you wouldn't do. Because you are

1) pretending to share a value when you don't
2) pretending to be someone you are not
3) lying about it, which adds another whole level of deceit to the mix, and therefore you are also robbing your SO the dignity of making an informed choice based on reality

Why you need to make such a dramatic approach to it?
Pretending to share a value? Don't think he was pretending...he is just in a stressful phase of his life it seems.

Pretending to be someone you are not? Don't think it's this dramatic either.

Lying about it? Yeah he felt guilty about his new made weakness.

But what about everything else? What about his other traits? What about other values they share? They've been in a relationship for long enough for me to think they are not only connected by not watching porn.
The main thing you ask in a man is that he doesn't watch porn? I just can't see it in general as criteria important enough to base a relationship on it.

So your man can beat you, be a crappy boyfriend - but if he doesn't watch porn that's all fine?
Ok, now im being a bit too dramatic. But sry, not even if they are christians...im sry but in general this can't be the main criteria for a relationship and if it was...it was never a good relationship. That's generally not value strong enough.

If he was lying about being christian in general...that would be pretending who you are not. If he was lying about being a vegetarian in general...that's also very low.

If this is her criteria...so be it. everybody has their own enough...but im not naive enough to believe there is not smth else here behing all this. Cuz if im honest, this is just not reason strong enough in general for the break up.
I just can't take this seriously.

Vegetarians kinda have a life style and eating meat would be like to Christians to say "i don't believe in jesus anymore". And that is not equal as watching porns if honest. There are some levels of betraying what you believe in. I understand people wanna share lifestyles and their points of view on life...all understood. But there are levels of "sins"...and watching a porn doesn't make you a terrible sinner in comparison to say "i'm not christian anymore".

Was she always 100% Christian??? Cuz i would stick my hand into fire and bet she wasn't.

But someone made a good point here. If he loves her this much, he could do smth simple as stop watching porns. (very true)
But also if she loves him enough, she wouldn't be breaking up this easily. But i guess it's easier to hurt others then yourself, even if reality no one should suffer.

I love it how everybody think this guy should kneel in front of his girlfriend like he murdered someone.
If she loves him, she will talk to him.
But i don't think she is worth any effort. Her feelings seem to be very fragile if the porn is a reason to break up...cuz as i mentioned before...levels of sin are to be considered!!!

And don't christian like help people? Understand people? Help them become better???
No one is perfect, is it? We always fail sometimes and we are ashamed of it. We don't need to be dumped for it as soon as we do it.
 

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I don't know, hypocriticaltruthteller, I don't see what's so difficult about understanding how something may be important to someone even though it may not be important to you. It's really not our place to be outlining for other people what should or shouldn't be important to them, or dictating to them what their boundaries should be within a relationship.

The OP wanted advice on whether or not people of this type would doorslam permanently or not. It sounds to me like this woman was invalidated, lied to, and then lied to again and she decided she had enough. It sounds to me like the alternative was a one way ticket to Crazytown and she didn't want to live like that anymore. More power to her.
 
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I don't know, hypocriticaltruthteller, I don't see what's so difficult about understanding how something may be important to someone even though it may not be important to you. It's really not our place to be outlining for other people what should or shouldn't be important to them, or dictating to them what their boundaries should be within a relationship.

The OP wanted advice on whether or not people of this type would doorslam permanently or not. It sounds to me like this woman was invalidated, lied to, and then lied to again and she decided she had enough. It sounds to me like the alternative was a one way ticket to Crazytown and she didn't want to live like that anymore. More power to her.

Oh I'm not dictating at all what should be important to her. Please, be my guess. But that doesn't really means I am gonna actually think that it was only this that weight on her decision to leave him.
It's not strong enough simply...the argument for leaving him...just that...nope.
Maybe it's important to her...but i doubt that can be criteria for a relationship for anybody.
And you make her look like a woman suffering like he killed someone over and over again and promised he won't do it again.
I'm sry i don't see it this way.

That's like someone telling me "we can't be friends anymore cuz you are eating ice cream". Will i really think it's about an ice cream? no ofc.
This objectively can't be as important to anybody just cuz of religion. And I'm from a country where everybody are christian....never in my entire life I've never heard them do smth like this for the reason like this.
 
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I'm from a country where everybody are christian....never in my entire life I've never heard them do smth like this for the reason like this.
The Christian environment I grew up in, I did see it. It's a huge deal. That's American evangelicalism / Baptists for you. For a long time, porn was the secret in those circles that many men indulged in but could never afford anyone to find out; it was funny how many owned up to it when finally it began to be talked about, but of course it's always in the perspective of "something I used to do but don't want to anyone" or "redemption."

But I do think that if the relationship was excellent in every way, aside from this one, it would be far more rare to see someone just walk out like that. Maybe the same attitudes from this situation had filtered into the relationship in general? N's very easily more into ramifications of actions, and behaviors are not separate but all connected; and you're dealing with an Ni primary type which focuses on how current behavior generates future self holistically, so... maybe she saw something instinctively that she just didn't want to deal with.

I don't know.
 

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But I do think that if the relationship was excellent in every way, aside from this one, it would be far more rare to see someone just walk out like that. Maybe the same attitudes from this situation had filtered into the relationship in general? N's very easily more into ramifications of actions, and behaviors are not separate but all connected; and you're dealing with an Ni primary type which focuses on how current behavior generates future self holistically, so... maybe she saw something instinctively that she just didn't want to deal with.
Well, since I can glimpse (and feel instinctively) some of those behaviors from a distance and over the internet from how the OP interacts with all of us here, this seems very very likely to me.

And if that's correct then the OP knows it at some level. And for me that suggests that the OP's core question really is about how to continue mindf*** her, and he's come to INFJs to ask us to help him determine if and how this would be possible.

Lovely.
 

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If you really are committed to the relationship, it will take time to gain back trust and prove that you are willing to change to be the man of the type of character that she is looking for. But since she sounds extremely intuitive, you are going to have to be willing to make those changes not only for her but also for you because she will be able to tell if you are not being genuine.
and

Thank you Beauty for Ashes for your constructive comment.
The reason this comment is constructive from the OP's point of view is that it sets out what he needs to pretend to do and be in order to have a chance to get her back. It gives information on the type of persona he would need to project to appear a certain way in order to get what he wants. The part about being genuine will get lost because when it comes to the OP and genuine-ness, there is no there there.

Though that's clearly (to me) not the spirit in which Beauty for Ashes offered this comment, it is equally clear to me that this is the reason why it's so valuable to the OP.
 
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The Christian environment I grew up in, I did see it. It's a huge deal. That's American evangelicalism / Baptists for you. For a long time, porn was the secret in those circles that many men indulged in but could never afford anyone to find out; it was funny how many owned up to it when finally it began to be talked about, but of course it's always in the perspective of "something I used to do but don't want to anyone" or "redemption."

But I do think that if the relationship was excellent in every way, aside from this one, it would be far more rare to see someone just walk out like that. Maybe the same attitudes from this situation had filtered into the relationship in general? N's very easily more into ramifications of actions, and behaviors are not separate but all connected; and you're dealing with an Ni primary type which focuses on how current behavior generates future self holistically, so... maybe she saw something instinctively that she just didn't want to deal with.

I don't know.

God knows what happened here. The thing i was pointing out was that it couldn't be plain watching porns.
She didn't like smth in his attitudes. Maybe it was lying but lying implies also on porn kinda in this situation so i don't think it was that. I also think people forgive lies but depends what kinds of lies also...everybody have unacceptable and acceptable. And porns just doesn't fit in when it comes to deal breakers. I'll go with smth deeper here. Smth annoyed her terribly about all this...smth about him that showed itself in this situation annoyed her (that's my guess).
 
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Well, since I can glimpse (and feel instinctively) some of those behaviors from a distance and over the internet from how the OP interacts with all of us here, this seems very very likely to me.

And if that's correct then the OP knows it at some level. And for me that suggests that the OP's core question really is about how to continue mindf*** her, and he's come to INFJs to ask us to help him determine if and how this would be possible.

Lovely.

I agree with this point. People who break up know why. There is always much more to it then it seems. He knows why.
 

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and



The reason this comment is constructive from the OP's point of view is that it sets out what he needs to pretend to do and be in order to have a chance to get her back. It gives information on the type of persona he would need to project to appear a certain way in order to get what he wants. The part about being genuine will get lost because when it comes to the OP and genuine-ness, there is no there there.

Though that's clearly (to me) not the spirit in which Beauty for Ashes offered this comment, it is equally clear to me that this is the reason why it's so valuable to the OP.
I guess I didn't know about the landmine I stumbled onto here, not having time to read the entire thread. I obviously have no intent to help anyone mind**** anyone... Just my opinion on how the situation could be reconciled if the OP is indeed genuine. In my opinion, if it's not genuine, it's not going to happen. That's something that can't be faked indefinitely, and the girl in question sounds like she already is of the mind to take no crap anyway.
 
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It's against my common sense to even reply to this thread, but there are a some things I want to say.

I'm going to be blunt: I'm not going to be "to the point," because I don't think "to the point," and I don't write/talk "to the point." I'm going to share ideas and expand on them, and they're free to be taken or left as one so pleases. I'm going to divide this into two parts so that it's clear, and organized. Part I will be about "Door Slamming and Why," while Part II will be about "Personal Growth and Development/Misc Thoughts on Matters."

Part I: Door Slamming and Why

First of all, I'd like to give some information on how I handle "end of the road," situations in relationships. One can theoretically extend that to INFJ as this is how I consistently test, but again, I'm my own person and my thoughts and experiences can never be identical to another person's thoughts or experiences, so take or leave this information as appropriate.

I have been through enough challenging relationships in life to have been in a few places to slam some doors on people. Every single time it has been necessary and painful.

I'm a very patient person, and I can be very compassionate and generous. I often prefer to understand the person and accommodate, but I do have non-negotiable stances based on my values. I won't go into the specifics here since people have different values, but I will give a broad definition of when it becomes non-negotiable. Non-negotiable, for me, happens when a person shows me repeated disrespect that reaches a point where I can no longer write it off as "a bad day," or "a difficult time," especially if they show no indication of being willing to work on whatever issues are coming up between the other person and me. Lying is often a significant part of it, and yes, I am highly intolerable of deceit, but I'm more intolerant of someone who is deceiving himself or herself and thinks that I'm going to go along for the ride. (I do realize the tone of my writing may come across as angry here, but that's because I'm reaching into memories and situations that are strongly associated with anger for me, which is, of course, coming out in my tone, but to back away from that would be to back away from the honesty I want to bring out here.)

When those doors are slammed, I slam them good and hard, and no, there is no going back because I have usually already forgiven the person over, and over again, and I'm tired of forgiving a matter that isn't getting resolved.

I also wanted to quote the following because of how much this connects to my experience of having to slam some doors.

When pushed to the limit, back against a wall - and if she goes back to him I guarantee there will come a point when the INFJ in this case is pushed to the limit like that because of his mode of manipulation - an INFJ will come out fighting like the other person never imagined they/we could possibly do. We will take all of that information we gathered in all of the ways that we gather information - including some that appear telepathic or otherwise otherworldly - and we will use it to tear down, with ruthless precision, anything we decide is wrong, unjust etc. We will use the deep and broad knowledge we've gathered to destroy whatever we determine needs destroying, and that can include telling the truth about lies that the person has been perpetuating to others, in business, in interpersonal connections, in religious settings, whatever it takes to tear down the wrongness.
For me, this happens when I go back on my instinct and forgive someone who hasn't changed against my better judgement OR if they try to force me into forgiving them when I have no good reason to do so. I am, generally, I sweet, forgiving, lenient, compassionate person (though I don't sound like it right now) but I'm also observant. When I'm pushed too far, all of that anger, and frustration, and exhaustion comes out verbally, and I have shredded some pretty big egos in a pretty hard way to the point of those people retaliating with slander and other waste of time retaliations. It just turns into an ugly, ugly scenario.

In summary:

1. When I slam a door I refuse to forgive because I ONLY slam doors after having forgiven, and forgiven, and forgiven until I'm sick of it.

2. I slam doors on people who show no self insight, and no desire for self development.

3. Once the door is slammed, it stays slammed because if it doesn't, then it turns into an ugly scenario, and I can be verbally mean to the point of tearing down a person's entire ego-system (get it? ego-system, eco-system AH HA Ha ha ha . . . yeah) and it's just so ugly that no one wants to go there. (Also, going there hurts.)

Importantly: When I slam a door, it hurts because relationships matter to me, and letting go of one is painful. I feel it like a death. So I only slam doors when I good and mean it! Things I mean, I do for keeps!

Part II: Personal Growth and Development/Misc. Thoughts

So the situation seems to be as follows:

1. You and this woman are both Christians
2. She deduced you were looking at porn. You said you wouldn't do it again.
3. You did it again and got caught.
4. She said "adios."

So let's clarify what's going on here on a person and interpersonal level. On an interpersonal level there are a couple of obvious problems in this situation. First of all, you did something that goes against religious and spiritual values. Second of all, you lied. Yeah, those are some big no-no things to do. On a personal level, you say that you looked at porn in order to relax. You also say that this woman means the world to you.

There are some things to be looked into here. To start, relationships will not work unless the individuals within the relationship are working themselves. That means that you've got to work on things on a personal level before they'll work on an interpersonal level. This doesn't mean people can't be flawed because goodness knows all people are flawed. I'm pretty strict in my belief about this. Relationships are not something to gauge status by, they're not something to use as a crutch to avoid doing the internal/personal/spiritual work. Relationships are there in order to share mutual love and trust with someone. That can't happen if we aren't looking after our own growth, and being the best we can be. (Whatever that means for individuals.)

So on the personal level, there are concerns with the porn. So I have to ask a few things. How do you honestly feel about porn yourself? If there's a conflict with your use of porn and your religious belief, that's something that you should probably sort out before you get into a relationship with anyone because that's a major part of a person's sexuality and value system. If your sexuality and value system are in conflict (which they seem to be here) then that's going to bring conflict into a relationship because of how important those aspects are to harmonious relationship. If you don't know where you stand, or if your actions conflict with your values, then that's going to affect the ability of ANY partner to find a stable footing on which to build trust.

Then there's the issue with the lying. I wonder, what drove the action of lying? That's something where thinking on it might help to reveal what's going on with that you-porn-religion dynamic. What emotions are there? What does looking at porn really represent to you? What are you honest feelings about it?

Also, you mentioned that you were looking at porn as a way to relieve stress, so stress seems to be a major factor in all of this as well and I can't help but make note of it. What are you like when you're stressed? How do you behave when you're stressed? How do you treat people when you're stressed? What sorts of strategies do you have in place to cope with your stress? To my observation, this is JUST as big a concern as the porn/religion issue and the lying issue because it indicates to me that you might need to work on some of your skills with emotional regulation.

To be blunt, I see emotional regulation issues all over your posts, SoJ. Impatience, and a general not-managing-reactions-well thing seems to be bouncing right off the walls of your posts here to the extent that, even at this remote distance, the stress, high emotion, and hostility in your writing induced an increased heart rate and other physiological stress reactions. That's quite a feat! If I encountered that kind of behaviour in real life, I'd run screaming because of the anger/aggression issues that would buzz on my nerves. I have to wonder how much of that factored into the breakdown of this relationship as well. Emotional regulation issues, communication issues, those are something that could be worked on with a therapist. (I know. People run away from the notion of "therapist," and think it's all bogus nonsense, but I think that not working on one's self is bogus nonsense, especially when it leads to emotional struggles, relationship breakdown, and stress.)

I also noticed you never talk about how you treated this lady day to day either, or about her personal qualities. I see a detailed list of compatibility, the way someone would decide on what car to buy. That might be something to think on to. Do you love her, or do you love that she fits into a list of qualities.

Summary:

1. Sort out your values. Right now your actions regarding porn and your religious/spiritual values seem to conflict. Do some soul searching on this, and sort that business out, otherwise, it will continue to create an unstable value system which will undermine the foundation and stability of every single relationship you try to be in.

2. Figure out how to manage your stress. If porn isn't a way you want to be doing that, then find another way to manage your stress. Take ownership for this!

3. Please take note of emotional regulation issues that may be going on. Be brutally honest with yourself about how much patience you have, how you treat people, how often your temper goes off, and how aggressive/angry you really are. If necessary, seek counselling because it will improve all your relationships, and help to build peace in life. (It will also help with the stress thing.)

4. Make sure that you love who you love for the person they ARE; don't love people just because their qualities fit into a list of desired traits.

I also want to mention this. This is something that comes a little from my background of having been raised Catholic and, though I've kind of stepped away from that now, I continue to be acquainted with people who have a very strong foundation in their faith and one of the major tenets of that spiritual belief, as far as I've ever understood is that when something is beyond your capacity, bring it to God. From the looks of the situation here, you've taken what overwhelmed you and brought it to porn which, from this woman's perspective, could be fundamentally against spiritual belief, and a huge violation of religious values. Beyond porn, beyond cheating, beyond everything else, it sounds like she believed you to have a value system that she shared and you violated that not once, but twice, which might be an even bigger issue. Which brings us full circle I guess. You've got to work out your relationship between religion and porn.

Ultimately, she has every right to choose to be or not be with you. You have no place or right to try to convince her to be with you if she doesn't want to be. If she's too hurt and it's all too much, then it's her right to feel that way. I can understand that it hurts, and I can understand that it's hard, especially if there's an attachment there, but that's just basic respect for others. Relationships are a choice, and love is earned.

What's more important, I think, than figuring out how to "win her back," or, "get her to forgive you," is to work on yourself. Figure out where your weak areas are here, figure out your values, take ownership for you actions and your attitudes, and work on ways to build yourself in ways that lead to the development of inward peacefulness, and consistent values.
 

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I guess I didn't know about the landmine I stumbled onto here, not having time to read the entire thread. I obviously have no intent to help anyone mind**** anyone... Just my opinion on how the situation could be reconciled if the OP is indeed genuine. In my opinion, if it's not genuine, it's not going to happen. That's something that can't be faked indefinitely, and the girl in question sounds like she already is of the mind to take no crap anyway.
@Beauty for Ashes, just to be clear, I feel like your intent was simply to help out and of course you don't want to be part of any mindf***ing project!

The problem is that the OP is into manipulation and has his own uses for a comment like yours, despite your obvious good intent.

I'm really sorry that wasn't clearer in what I wrote.
 

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Discussion Starter #96
Honestly, I never go off like this, I'm normally a cool calm and collected guy. I'm a GM after all but...

Holy Shit people!

I ask a simple question, and give some salient details.

I AM NOT on here to get relational advice from a bunch of strangers, and as some of you pointed out, I certainly didn't give enough info for you to do that in any real way.

I am here to get a general feel on a a certain trait of a certain personality type, to help ME direct MY life in a more informed way...which frankly is all this board is qualified to do. A "We don't know" answer is just fine.

If you want to go over board and psychoanalyse me, with SUPER limited info that's fine. It's your house, and I'll be polite, like I have been to some of you. Many of you have taken your time out of your busy day to answer my question, in your own ways, and sometimes you didn't even do that, but your time is valuable and I thanked you genuinely.

Others, and you know who you are, get a kick out of projecting their own hurt onto my situation and making me the enemy, to you I say grow the fuck up, and the fact you can give shit but not take it is something you should really look at in your own maturity spectrum.

P.S. I didn't go into a lot of the details of why I've had to ask this question, cos a lot of the shit was caused by my SO, it takes two to tango Einstein, and I was trying to not air HER dirty laundry on site.

SOME of you need to grow a fucking brain and stop dishing out relationship advice when none was asked for, not enough info was given to do so, and your obviously not qualified to do so. Gee that's a pretty solid argument ain't it.

On the other hand others of you are share relational Geniuses and should right books ( not being sarcastic here).

My point is you poor ones know who you are and should learn to shut the hell up and especially not answer unasked questions.

My rants over, I've got what I needed, and after the joke of an experience I had on here, I ain't hanging around to contribute.

Best of luck

SoJ
 

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Discussion Starter #97
Well, since I can glimpse (and feel instinctively) some of those behaviors from a distance and over the internet from how the OP interacts with all of us here, this seems very very likely to me.

And if that's correct then the OP knows it at some level. And for me that suggests that the OP's core question really is about how to continue mindf*** her, and he's come to INFJs to ask us to help him determine if and how this would be possible.

Lovely.
OK, I couldn't resist.

Aquarian, you are seriously dangerous I;ve read about INFJs who get so hurt that start projecting onto ever dude out there, I read over some of your other thread posts, just to make sure I wasn't assuming, and nope. You continually make WILD ass comments.

People come on here vulnerable and seeking a place where they can resolve self conflict, and this is how you act.

You're a joke, back off sister, one of these days you're gonna actually hurt someone.

Again, you are dangerous!

Best of luck,

Adios.

And PS just in case you get a kick out of thinkin you hurt me, cos that's what your obviously gunning for (Grow up kid), I'm a think skinned Ex-Mil ENTJ girl, your weak attempts at comebacks are a joke.

Now go away and think about yourself, before you do some poor soul some real damage.


SoJ
 

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I think she was just using the porn as an excuse to get away from you. She chose to place her leaving on an actual event, rather than fruitlessly explain how your assholery is effecting the relationship.
 

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I think many INFJs from the forum have tried their best to make a decent contribution.

I am getting the impression that you just get annoyed when they give replies you don't want to hear.

And that would be kind of the problem. Its not off topic - it's incredibly ON topic.
 
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