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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I'll try this more in a give and take fashion. I'm on the border of multiple different types and I need some help to figure mine out.


What are your motivations?
To express myself honestly and to make other people happier with my disposition and actions. I help people out without requesting any return because it makes me happy. I give to others because it is in my nature. I am here to enjoy and give enjoyment.
But I think behind those motives is the need to be liked and respected, I thrive off relationships and If I plan to do something, I will put in all my effort to be the best I can. I'm fiercely independent with my own work. I try to be un-judging in my affection but I give endlessly more time and effort to those who I know will be there for me.
I try to be strong with compassion and filled with a naive lightheartedness. At my worst I push people away and escape, and I become apathetic yet still caring. The worst feeling is the feeling of conflicting actions and intentions. With people I just find what makes them smile and I do more of it. It's usually pretty offbeat and exaggerated.

Describe your ideal self
Ideally I would like to inspire people to be happy and compassionate through myself, but sometimes that just doesn't happen.
I make people happy by being myself, but by being myself I just want to make people happy so sometimes I'll change the timbre of my attitude.
I definitely feel that sometimes theres no space for me and I have to carve it out and take charge.

Fears?
I'm afraid of failure. I'm afraid when people realize my true self I'll be rejected and exposed for my weaknesses. I'm afraid of sadness and denial.

I think thats a good starting place. It's difficult to recreate my talking style and engaged nature over the internet, so imagine more :laughing:.

Give it a go and if you have any other questions just ask.
 

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I hope you have patience for slow response times on my part. It's partly because of my full life but also because I like to let things roll around in my head. Those moments where conclusions crystallize in my mind are neat.

Anyway, some questions for you:

What kind of stuff gets you mad?
How aware of your anger in the moment, are you?
What is it about 2, 4 and 7 that you relate to in particular?

If you have the means and are comfortable with the idea, posting a video of yourself can be incredibly helpful toward typing you.

I'm bit by bit, browsing your past posts. Between our previous conversation and what I'm seeing on the forum, I'm leaning toward 9 for your core fix, at the moment. If not core, very possibly your gut fix.

Please feel free to ask any questions you might have. I'll do my best to answer.
 
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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I wouldn't say patience is my strongest trait but take your time! It doesn't bother me, you have things to do, and most importantly at least for me, your making some sort of effort. Any response at this stage is a great response.
Side note: I think thats true for me for a number of different things. I was always like that. I like to make people respond, get active, I like to see people react with me and 'play'.

Firstly I can't really stand behind my posts as of late because of the moods I've been in. I wouldn't put that much emphasis on my previous posts because my mom has been very ill and my dad has been drinking and I've been caught in between them.
Also I've noticed that I come across totally different when discussing interesting topics without any human interaction. I'm very expressive and very active, two things you can't really sense over the internet. While I am a smart person, I'm rather horrible at staying logical, and sometimes mistake my feelings for rationale. Don't judge me on my actions, but intentions.

Actually I think my stress is seeping through this as I write, perhaps type as if I weren't acting as my regular type? I really don't have any advice, if I did I would be taking it myself. Perhaps I need to leave and come back when I'm more comfortable.

I just finished watching some old VHS tapes of me 1-5 years old. I was a mover and a shaker, always voicing my opinions. I think the 9ness that I embody is really just learned traits after being with my overly dominating father. That's why I want to find out my true type, as I know many of my traits today are merely because of circumstance. But saying that I still could have a 9 gut fix. I never really score that high on 9's but I could have a bias.

What kind of stuff gets you mad?
When people ignore me or take my presence for granted. I'm a highly focused person and I give my all to things I enjoy. When people glaze over me it feels like an insult to my character. Any blatant attempts to cut me down make me incredibly reactive and flustered. Most the time I try to hide it though. I probably get most angry with myself though. I'm my biggest critic and there is a huge dissonance between my thoughts and actions sometimes, because I'm scared. Scared of situations I shouldn't be but I still am so I don't take action. I know I should have and I know I could have but I didn't. That is most liable to make me angry.

How aware of your anger in the moment, are you?
I'm usually aware of when I'm angry. The only time I've gotten into a fight is when this guy was making a girl I was walking with uncomfortable by harassing her, because he thought no white people would mess with him (A tall black guy). He got all up in my face when I told him to stop and I kicked his face in. It wasn't really a fight but he backed off. I don't like when people try and assert their dominance. When people downplay others and blindly assert their egos, it makes me angry. I'm cool under pressure now but when I was younger I would become engulfed by blind rage. Usually after kids picked on me because I was small and didn't really fit in with the 'dudes'. This only made things worse because I would feel ashamed because the anger was aimed at no one and only made people believe I was less of an equal.

What is it about 2, 4 and 7 that you relate to in particular?
Type 7 is the type I usually score the highest on in tests and the enneagram I identify best with when I'm in a stable happy mood. I love to experience new things and the general happy disposition that can be infectious. However as of late I feel that it doesn't reflect my tendency to wallow in my melancholy feelings and introspect and analyze.After my father got very agressive when I got older I become much more reserved and lately I feel embarrassed to smile or show any emotions. I feel like I can't do that around my parents anymore and it tears me apart. It's what I want to do but I was conditioned to do otherwise. The thing that makes me depressed is when I don't have the ability to express my emotions freely because I'm usually an uplifting guy. I can't express who I am to my parents because I was forced to keep it inside for so long.

Type 2 is also something that I think was a learned behavior. It was the way I was able to be active and communicate with my father who was always the controller. By acting like a 2 I never had to face his bad side and he might even become nicer. But disregarding that I also have always loved to see people laugh and smile and I love to help people. I can be selfless in my actions and thought, but a bit selfish when it comes to emotion. Again though, lately it hasn't reflected my interactions. Also see above for lack of interaction and emotion.

Type 4 I think represents my feeling of being different and the lack of understanding that people have of me. I can hardly understand myself and I know people around me just think I'm some strange guy. I can have extended periods of wallowing in my imagination and feelings, but when I'm feeling better that begins to stop and I reach out to people much more. Type 4 may be a feeling I've acquired over the years of highschool when I tried to fit in with the naive teenagers but was never able to because I knew some of the truths of life that few teenagers should and was very in tune with myself. I talked with every social group at my highschool but not until senior year did I really develop true friendships and established myself with a so called 'clique'. My mom and dad are ISFJ and ESTJ respectively and my sister is INTJ. I really can't relate to any of their ways of thinking. I inherited many of their traits and I'm behind many of their decisions. But I never really feel too understood. People seem to place their views in me as to see where I'm coming from, but it feels like I'm coming from a different direction most the time.

I found this the other day and it seems useful. I would have to say that my mother is responsive, and my father and sister are active.
Personality Types - Enneagram and Myers Briggs

Well as always, this has turned into a free flowing dialoge between me and myself with some introspection. I just sat down and it all kind of spilled out. I'm sure there are truths in here but also be weary of the influence of my aim. Sometimes I can be very good at getting what I want to hear, regardless of my conscious attention to not doing it.
Ideally I want to conclude on a type which I can positively relate to and I definitely have my biases on which type I would like to be.
I'd like to add that I don't enjoy pressing all of my feelings and thoughts on to you, but there's really no warrant for light talk or embellished ideas. I try to be objective because I try to be honest.
And as you can probably tell, I have a lot to say and even MORE to ask. Really the problem is who to ask and how to phrase it. I'm insatiably curious. Right now I can't think of any helpful questions. I tend to ask myself questions most of the time and respond internally.

I'm trying to find myself so I can be honest in my expression. I want to be sincere and kind, I want to be happy. I can't do this when my center is misplaced, from what I think was a chaotic childhood.

Again with the tangents, but I think it's valuable. Also, everything makes sense in my head but I always have trouble putting it into words. Grammar was always my worst subject.

If you got this far, thanks for reading.
Also Merry Christmas!:laughing: Or happy holidays, whatever floats your boat.

Also- I'm missing that give and take that usually happens face to face. I feel selfish and up tight without it. Feel free to ramble about something!

Edit: I'll probably just have to make a video. After re reading and re editing it's still really incoherent. Huzaa for second guessing.
 

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I think no on 7. 7's aren't very aware of feelings of shame/embarrassment. If they do become aware of it, they won't show it or talk about it with others. A 6w7 might misidentify as a 7 however and can easily associate with such feelings.

You seem less 9ish at this point, however, if it's in there, I'd lean toward 9w8. I think I'd like to throw 3 on the table. Any reasons why you do or do not identify with that type?
 
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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Hmm, 3's.
I do have the need to succeed and I do have the need to be impressive, but they're not overpowering.
Initially I thought I was 4w3, and I'm wondering why I started doubting myself in the first place.
But usually the descriptions of 3s are focused on how they are efficient and colder "get things done" people. I feel more idealistic and have a tendency to do what's aligned with 'me' rather than what is efficient.

Now that I think about it though, I can definitely see 3 tendencies in my past post. Definitely gives me some material to think about.
When people ignore me it's more the insult to my character and actions that gets me down rather than the absence of recognition.

A certain situation might highlight it better.
I played in front of a large audience as a solo performer and I wasn't really into any of my songs and it really didn't reflect the kind of music and mood I was trying to portray. People said it was a great performance but to me it really didn't make any difference. It wasn't as I imagined nor what I had intended.
On the other hand just recently I performed as a second guitarist/vocalist for a band in town and I absolutely loved it. No one really came up to me and said what a wonderful job I did. No one really knew me in the audience. However the band was great and I felt the songs were fun and meaningful. My favorite part was just smiling and singing not really caring about the reaction. Everyone was having fun.

So far this has been the hardest response, to either refute or accept. I'd rather not just stop here though. The 3 seems to describe some parts of me but really leaves out the most important parts. My authenticity and general humble nature does NOT come through in these posts. In fact I think the very opposite does. I'm assertive but I try to not be 'better'. I just try to 'be' and assert that 'being'.....yea

GAH this is near impossible to put into words! This time I don't think a video would help. It's all in my head and I understand why this doen't fit but I can't articulate it well. When I'm centered people like and enjoy being around me. I most enjoy when I'm in a mode of genuine helpfulness and happiness. When I'm me people enjoy being around me. THAT's why I'm looking for my type. Possibly this is a 3 type in a disguise?

But I am aware of what I think are other people's perceptions. Like right now I'm thinking "I hope whoever is reading this isn't bored and thinking how selfish I am. I bet whoever is reading this is getting the wrong message, maybe I'll change this."

I'd much rather be relatively unknown and be able to honestly express myself than be well known and just be expressing the general consensus of what is acceptable.
Overall I think I definitely have 3 traits, but I don't think they define me. Or maybe you have a different opinion?


So now after thinking out loud and going through the numbers, I'm falling back to around 4w3 or something in the heart triad rather than something from 6-9.
What's your take on that?

Edit: If it wasn't too obvious, I don't want to be typed as a 3. This could be either denial as a 3 or plain disagreement as another type. Either way I don't think I could live easy knowing I was inherently inauthentic. It feels like a 'weak' type, susceptible to un honorable motivations, all the more because I can see myself in it sometimes. Hmm maybe we can add that to fears? Fear of being fake. Fear of being weak?

Edit numero dos: wrote this up and it's fairly accurate.
* Tell us in a brief paragraph or two how you would describe yourself and what you hope to get out of this forum.
I'm a young hearted energetic guy put in an older sublimated environment. Some may call me well rounded but I'd just call myself conflicted. I've been through a lot in my life and I've been able to bounce back not with relative ease, but I've done it none the less. I never give up and I'll help you out if you need it. I have a huge imagination and I listen to music almost all the time. I play in two bands and I'm artistic in most things I do. I've also got a scientific side though. I tend to doubt myself too much and I'm very aware. Overall though if you met me in real life I'd be fun and talkative. I like to laugh and to make other people laugh. I just come across a bit jaded on here. I hope to find myself and learn about others on this forum.
 

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Of the type descriptions I've seen, 3's always get the stamp of superficial glowing pride. The descriptions define by observing a 3, they miss out on some rather large portions of the type.

3's have the insides of a blank portrait, throughout life they are finding a picture to paint for the the canvas. Many alterations, erasing, and changing throughout their life (perhaps the superficial vibe comes from this?), they are often inconsistent in behavior (or too consistent when sold to their image).

A 3 puts forth an image, the image is what they use to do whatever they want (they usually succeed), it's adaptive and "smooth". Their inner self is often put in the backburner, because it is not ready, it does not work, it is too much. Failure is the pits, the image cracks.

The portrait must have something, occasionally a 3 will put something in it, just to have it for the image (perhaps materialism, they want the image the object lets off, not the value). Forever seeking authenticity, or just a balance between the image, and the self.

The type's in the 3-6-9 line have a tie to searching, and in a pattern perhaps. The 3 is always searching, the 9 needs to search, and the 6, why do I need to?.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks, I just made some big leaps of thought after exploring around on the enneagram forum also. I do appreciate that metaphor.
I'll be back when I have my head on my shoulders. But right now I'm feeling either 4w3 or 6w7, and the possibility of 3w4.


FAHhhh.
Do you ever have those times when you can almost see what you're looking for and you're on some huge bridge of thought and you're inches away from the answer and then it all shatters? I feel like that just happened. I was having a moment of clarity where things almost made sense but now it feels like I'm in the exact same position as before I even started this thread.
 

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I see a quite a bit that makes me think 3w4 as your core type. If you like, I can highlight what and why. Not everybody is comfortable with an analysis like that though, so I leave it up to you.

In any case, 3's are not inherently inauthentic. Perhaps this perception appears in 3 descriptions due to their ability to adapt. As any type deteriorates, they become less authentic. 4's might be the most obviously inauthentic at unhealthy levels due to their rejection of any and all commonalities between themselves and others.

I'd say the "cold" and "efficient" descriptors of type 3 are probably geared more towards 3's with a 5 head fix. I'm really not sure about your head fix at this moment but if I had to guess off of impression alone, I'd say 6w7. As for your gut fix, would you say you get angry often or easily?


Whenever you're ready. And yeah, I can relate to feeling like I have the answers within my grasp and they some how just slip away. Sometimes I find that there are people around who can help though.
 
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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Thanks for all the input.
I can understand the 3w4 idea and I can definitely see myself as that sometimes.
I'm of course more apt to reply back that I don't think it's right. I'm not really in the best point in my life to be describing myself nor through the going through best medium to describe myself. So I'm still not confident in anyone's assumption, including mine. I know this is a scapegoat, but I'm using it if only to get a clearer answer for myself.
With the head and gut fixes I'm in the same boat. 6w7 or 7w6 and either 8w9 or 9w8. Heart I'm going with 3w4 or 4w3.


As for your gut fix, would you say you get angry often or easily?
Hmm, I get angry at times but almost always I muffle it down. Anger isn't really an emotion I want to identify with too much, and on average I'm not as angry as people I'm around anyways.
But when things really get to me I can explode. I identify very well with the volcano analogy. Dormant for a while, then earth moving.

I'm positive you can point out many things in my old posts which point to 3 but I'll be quick to point out how it portrays me wrong. On most questions they ask you to think about your whole life, and I've been talking about the last year which was greatly different from all the other years. I don't want to deny everything because many things are true, but I also don't want to accept because many things are not true.

I am slowly on the road to more healthy living as I type. I've been together with my band and I'm confident in my singing again. Confident in my friends. I cleaned up my room and cut my hair, I started talking to my parents and re acquainting with old friends. I'm working out and eating healthy. I'm focusing less on what I am and more on who I am. If that makes sense.

If we were to start this conversation again in a couple weeks if this trend continued, with no memory of our first I'm afraid we wouldn't come to the same conclusion. Now the question is which is more true. An introspective conversation when all is depressing and there's an apathy for embellishing or a more healthy but possibly misleading and glossed explanation?

I think only time will tell and I'll try to continue being my 'more' normal self and we can continue the conversation.

Ok time to flex my Te

I found this from http://pstypes.blogspot.com/search/label/Misidentifications and I'll use it to highlight what I've been trying to convey in a more concrete manner.

I'll give a number as indication of how much each descriptor applies to me, 1 is least like me and 5 is most like me.
These are differences to help with mistype.

Three
Focus on competition 3
Be admired 4
Success 4
Inflated self-worth 3
Arrogant 3
Self-controlled 2
Focused 3
Composed 3
Well-mannered 4
Tactful 3
Polished 2
Serious 3
Moderate 1

Total:38

As opposed to:

Seven
Focus on enjoyment 3
Have fun 4
Freedom 4
Inflated plans & desires 4
Maniacal 3
Impulsive 3
Scattered 3
Bubbly 3
Rather ill-mannered 2
Outspoken 4
Rough-edged 3
Playful 4
Gluttonous 3

Total:43

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Three
Focus on performance 4
Self-disciplined 3
Success-oriented 3
Detached 2
Socially confident 3
Adaptable 5
Be impressive 4
Minimize suffering 4
Positive self-image 3

Total:31

As opposed to:

Four
Focus on feelings 4
Self-indulging 4
Introspective 4
Emotional 4
Socially unconfident 2
Different 3
Be themselves 4
Dramatize suffering 4
Negative self-image 2

Total:31

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Six
Pessimistic 2
Self-doubting 4
Responsible 4
Seek guidelines 2
Aware of authority 2
Commited 3
Negative 2
Duty 2
Worrying 4

Total:25

As opposed to:

Seven
Optimistic 4
Self-confident 4
Forgetful 4
Reject guidelines 4
Ignore authority 4
Flighty 4
Upbeat 4
Freedom 4
Diverting 4

Total: 36

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Eight
Assertive 4
Aggressive 3
Impose 3
Start conflict 2
Engaged 3
Controlling 3
Direct 3
Show anger 3
Want intensity 4
Powerful 3

Total:31

As opposed to:

Nine
Self-effacing 4
Peaceful 4
Compromise 4
Avoid conflict 4
Disengaged 3
Easy-going 3
Mediate 3
Deny anger 4
Want routine 3
Soft 3

total:35

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I realize these are just numbers and it's not the base for typing, but I believe this gives a much better base of information to go off. I approached each adjective without any bias and I thought about my overall life, rather than the happenings of late. I think I remember seeing you talk about how you don't like to use descriptive words in typing, but I find it's much more clear than my previous open ended discussions about life.

I am more confident after doing that saying that 9w8 is probably my gut fix. I believe your first assertion that you saw 9 in me was more correct than I led you to believe. Although it may be an adaptation from my environment it's probably is in my nature as well. 9w8 sits right with me.

Type 7? I'm still wondering why you shot it down rather fast. I think it might be because I'm very aware? I do tend to ramble on here but It's only because I've never had an introspecting outlet like this before. If you could expand on that, because although I don't project it, fun and therefore happiness is one of my main goals if not the main.

I DO think that the first post in this thread is still accurate. The stuff in between I'm not as sure but the first couple paragraphs put it nicely.
I still want to hear your thoughts!


P.S. Is there something you can write up about 3s and 4s, 7s and 9s, on how they cope with stess/become unhealthy? Possibly highlight the different ways they act in stressful situations? I think that would be extremely helpful for me.





P.S.S. These are my thoughts currently. Perhaps I am not a 4 but I'm still not confident that I am a 3. But then that would leave either 6,7,8, or 9 as contenders. I'm way too optimistic and trusting to be a 6 even though I have some self doubting characteristics. 7 is still a possibility at least in my mind but I could be wrong. I'm generally too considerate and less sure of myself than 8's even though I have an assertive quality. And I'm too 'questing' for a 9 even though I can definitely see myself in every position and keep the peace like a 9 would.
This is how I'm feeling at the moment and I want to tentatively say 3w4 (4w3), 7w6 and 9w8. I'm not at all sure which one I would say is my 'core' type.


P.S.S.S. I wrote about this very post and realized what I was doing. Perhaps this will give you a better glimpse.
I noticed that I do this with not only threads, but any project.

I start with some kind of inspiration or realization. It's usually not forceful, things just start.

Once they've started I bring all the information and countless thoughts and pile them onto the starting place. Then I mold and shape the project, tearing down and rebuilding as things become clear. It's very much working out the problem while trying to fix it. I dive in and throw everything at it while tearing it down and rebuilding until it starts to take shape.

What kind of functions make up this process?

Like this RIGHT HERE!!!!!
Perfect example. I was editing one of my longer posts and I realized what I was doing. This very thought process. I somehow managed upon this part of the forum and started this thread. It just happened!
I'm inclined to say it's Ne, things come and they go, but when some thought thread strikes me I grab it and throw everything around it to flesh it out.
Anyone relate? I can picture this whole thing happening in my head. I can feeeeel it! haha.
My thought process is a very visceral thing and things happen that I can't explain. I could show it to you if you were in my brain though. It's like a HUGE ball of string and I can look at all of it but when something appears before me I can magnify it 1000x and build a castle on it. Yes! Thats a good metaphor...
It's like lightning strikes going off in all directions but every once in a while I can catch one and hold it. Shape it.
^
^
That is much more what I'm like face to face. You can usually feel my energy. Again it just didn't come across very well in this thread.

I've probably edited this over 20 times just adding stuff. This initially started off as 1 paragraph...hah
But now I'm getting deeper into the question and closer to the answer.
I realize I'm always saying "I want to be more like X"...not out loud of course
I see some characteristic or an overal persona that I really like. I say, "If I were more like X or had characteristics like X, I would like myself better. I would like myself better and more people would like me because of it. And when everyone likes each other I'm able to open up and everyone can have fun."
I must point out that I'm NOT striving for an end goal here. The whole point of this self betterment is the process. To never give up and in the process become at peace with the ever changing nature of things. To be.
I am the culmination of everything I was before, plus more. I do this and I try to be selfless with it.
-------I am my own but I give myself to everyone else.-------
<-----This is something that really rings with me.
This sounds like 4 or 3 mixed with 7 and 9 right? I build off of all of this. I'm sure you noticed the bruce lee picture and quote. I take in little parts of his attitude that I like. I try to build it into my own persona. I do this with a lot of fictional characters. Characters that have no bearing in the real world but have attitudes I can recreate and make into my own. THIS is something I do a lot. If you could type that attitude I would be in your debt. Perhaps it fits under the previous said of trying to fill in the empty picture frame? But MY own image is in the picture frame. It always is. I see people and thoughts and get inspired to add to the picture. Self betterment. The picture has never really been completely changed. I want to be the best me I can be. I'm not different as in I have things that other people don't, there is just no one else just like me. The thoughts the decisions the actions are all different. We are all fairly similar on a whole but so, so different up close. Remarkably different, yet we share crucial things like love, and think alike, but not the same. I could see either 3w4 or 4w3 from this revelation....again with the 7w6/6w7 and 9w8/8w9. I'm really feeling more towards 4w3, 7w6, 9w8 right now though.
Possibly you can help me choose more accurately
This is good, I'm getting much more comfortable with this.....

Another thought. I've realized the core need of digging through all of this stuff and trying to find my MBTI type and enneagram type and any other type I can get my hands on. I have this thought for better or for worse that if I can figure out myself, if I can be centered and good, I can face anything. I don't need to predict the future. I don't need to 'worry'. The only thing I'll have to worry about is if I'm still aligned with what is good. If I can find myself centered yet still open to any new characteristics or flaws in my existing one, I'll be happy and comfortable, ready for life, and possess the ability to just be. I feel that no matter the type anymore I'm getting much closer to the thing I came on here to do, even if I didn't realize it at the time.

YES! I'm so excited with where this is going, I feel I'm getting closer with every word I type. Sorry if the above bit was a bit scattered, but I feel much better now. Getting there...
Things are uncovering themselves from all this introspection and clarity is slowly becoming apparent.

Alright thats quite a vat of information and input. I won't be able to post back for about 3 days, got some busy (good) days ahead.
Give me ALLL of your feedback!
 

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Hmm, I get angry at times but almost always I muffle it down. Anger isn't really an emotion I want to identify with too much, and on average I'm not as angry as people I'm around anyways.
But when things really get to me I can explode. I identify very well with the volcano analogy. Dormant for a while, then earth moving.

That sits very well with me as a 9w8 gut fix. It's very difficult to get under the skin of a 9w8. They're very resilient. It takes some serious doing to piss off people with this fixation but get them to that point and they'll explode. Once the explosion is over, it's like nothing happened.


I'm positive you can point out many things in my old posts which point to 3 but I'll be quick to point out how it portrays me wrong. On most questions they ask you to think about your whole life, and I've been talking about the last year which was greatly different from all the other years. I don't want to deny everything because many things are true, but I also don't want to accept because many things are not true.

How has it been different?


I am slowly on the road to more healthy living as I type. I've been together with my band and I'm confident in my singing again. Confident in my friends. I cleaned up my room and cut my hair, I started talking to my parents and re acquainting with old friends. I'm working out and eating healthy. I'm focusing less on what I am and more on who I am. If that makes sense.

I'm glad things are looking up for you. I'd think off of this paragraph that your instinctive variant stacking is probably self-preservation instinct first. I'm leaning toward social second. If not, a very weak sexual instinct second. How do you feel about sharing personal anecdotes or life experiences with others? Did something traumatic happen a year ago? Confidence in your friends as opposed to what?


If we were to start this conversation again in a couple weeks if this trend continued, with no memory of our first I'm afraid we wouldn't come to the same conclusion. Now the question is which is more true. An introspective conversation when all is depressing and there's an apathy for embellishing or a more healthy but possibly misleading and glossed explanation?

This last sentence catches my eye. You've associated depression with apathy to embellishment. I interpret this as an apathy to sprucing up your image since embellishment is a word I'd associate with image in general. The 3 line to 9 in disintegration would lie in apathy. Disintegrating, 3's become more apathetic their true Self. They compartmentalize their feelings in order to “get the job done”. But then you associate better health with dressing up your image. In integration, a 3 finds security in attaching themselves to something that anchors them down to their true Self. The pattern you've displayed in this paragraph is core 3. Your desire to integrate is apparent but it seems that you're reaching for what is a defense. I point this out not to “expose” you but because I'd much rather see you achieve the integration that I believe you desire.






I realize these are just numbers and it's not the base for typing, but I believe this gives a much better base of information to go off. I approached each adjective without any bias and I thought about my overall life, rather than the happenings of late. I think I remember seeing you talk about how you don't like to use descriptive words in typing, but I find it's much more clear than my previous open ended discussions about life.

I'm sure you tried your damnedest to remain unbiased. The fact remains that people have their blind spots to themselves. Subjectivity is unavoidable.


You know why Enneagram and psychology in general gets little respect in the academic world? I think it's because they can't fit neatly into the box that the scientific method imposes. The Big Five gets touted as the only valid typing system because it offers up empirical evidence of personality traits, much like in the manner you present, rating these adjectives. The trouble is, The Big Five is a useless tool for integration. I have yet to see a single way it can be applied, let alone used as a path to better mental health. I appreciate the effort you've put into rating the lists but unfortunately, I can't do anything with it.


Type 7? I'm still wondering why you shot it down rather fast. I think it might be because I'm very aware? I do tend to ramble on here but It's only because I've never had an introspecting outlet like this before. If you could expand on that, because although I don't project it, fun and therefore happiness is one of my main goals if not the main.

I shot it down as your core type due to your awareness of embarrassment. Core 7's aren't apt to sharing such feelings with others if they become aware of them at all. But let's discuss it as a possibility for your head fix. I'd like to know about your interests, over the course of your life. How old are you, if you don't mind me asking?


I DO think that the first post in this thread is still accurate. The stuff in between I'm not as sure but the first couple paragraphs put it nicely.
I still want to hear your thoughts!

I'll try this more in a give and take fashion. I'm on the border of multiple different types and I need some help to figure mine out.


What are your motivations?
To express myself honestly and to make other people happier with my disposition and actions. I help people out without requesting any return because it makes me happy. I give to others because it is in my nature. I am here to enjoy and give enjoyment.
But I think behind those motives is the need to be liked and respected, I thrive off relationships and If I plan to do something, I will put in all my effort to be the best I can. I'm fiercely independent with my own work. I try to be un-judging in my affection but I give endlessly more time and effort to those who I know will be there for me.

What's in bold indicates 3 on the 3/6 line.


I try to be strong with compassion and filled with a naive lightheartedness. At my worst I push people away and escape, and I become apathetic yet still caring. The worst feeling is the feeling of conflicting actions and intentions. With people I just find what makes them smile and I do more of it. It's usually pretty offbeat and exaggerated.

In bold is the 3/9 line.

Describe your ideal self
Ideally I would like to inspire people to be happy and compassionate through myself, but sometimes that just doesn't happen.
I make people happy by being myself, but by being myself I just want to make people happy so sometimes I'll change the timbre of my attitude.
I definitely feel that sometimes theres no space for me and I have to carve it out and take charge.

3's are people pleasers. The drive to move things forward, or “carve out your space” and “take charge” is very much a part of the structure of the 3 psyche.


Fears?
I'm afraid of failure. I'm afraid when people realize my true self I'll be rejected and exposed for my weaknesses. I'm afraid of sadness and denial.

Fear of failure and rejection of your true self is 3. Fear of sadness and denial could be indicative of a number of types, although you can cross core 4 off the list. They're melancholic and wear their sadness like a badge of honor.


I think thats a good starting place. It's difficult to recreate my talking style and engaged nature over the internet, so imagine more :laughing:.

That's why a video is helpful. :wink:




P.S. Is there something you can write up about 3s and 4s, 7s and 9s, on how they cope with stess/become unhealthy? Possibly highlight the different ways they act in stressful situations? I think that would be extremely helpful for me.

That's a really tall order. I'd have to write a book in order to do it any real justice. I'll give you a bare bones idea of what happens but be warned, it would be easy to twist any of this to suit ones own perception of themselves. I'm not going to argue on these points. I already explained 3. 4's disintegrate in idealism. They reject commonalities between themselves and others, expressing their perceived defection. 7's disintegrate by becoming critical of their environment, then rejecting the stresser, move onto their next project. 9's become fearful and repress their own desires in order to avoid internal upset.



P.S.S. These are my thoughts currently. Perhaps I am not a 4 but I'm still not confident that I am a 3. But then that would leave either 6,7,8, or 9 as contenders. I'm way too optimistic and trusting to be a 6 even though I have some self doubting characteristics. 7 is still a possibility at least in my mind but I could be wrong. I'm generally too considerate and less sure of myself than 8's even though I have an assertive quality. And I'm too 'questing' for a 9 even though I can definitely see myself in every position and keep the peace like a 9 would.
This is how I'm feeling at the moment and I want to tentatively say 3w4 (4w3), 7w6 and 9w8. I'm not at all sure which one I would say is my 'core' type.

At this point, my impression is 3w4 – 6w7 – 9w8. I'm least sure of 6w7.


P.S.S.S. I wrote about this very post and realized what I was doing. Perhaps this will give you a better glimpse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheYellow
I noticed that I do this with not only threads, but any project.

I start with some kind of inspiration or realization. It's usually not forceful, things just start.

Once they've started I bring all the information and countless thoughts and pile them onto the starting place. Then I mold and shape the project, tearing down and rebuilding as things become clear. It's very much working out the problem while trying to fix it. I dive in and throw everything at it while tearing it down and rebuilding until it starts to take shape.

What kind of functions make up this process?

Like this RIGHT HERE!!!!!
Perfect example. I was editing one of my longer posts and I realized what I was doing. This very thought process. I somehow managed upon this part of the forum and started this thread. It just happened!
I'm inclined to say it's Ne, things come and they go, but when some thought thread strikes me I grab it and throw everything around it to flesh it out.
Anyone relate? I can picture this whole thing happening in my head. I can feeeeel it! haha.

My thought process is a very visceral thing and things happen that I can't explain. I could show it to you if you were in my brain though. It's like a HUGE ball of string and I can look at all of it but when something appears before me I can magnify it 1000x and build a castle on it. Yes! Thats a good metaphor...
It's like lightning strikes going off in all directions but every once in a while I can catch one and hold it. Shape it.
^
^
That is much more what I'm like face to face. You can usually feel my energy. Again it just didn't come across very well in this thread.


I see a lot motivation and energy to push things forward. You get the juice flowing and go go go. Create.



I've probably edited this over 20 times just adding stuff. This initially started off as 1 paragraph...hah
But now I'm getting deeper into the question and closer to the answer.
I realize I'm always saying "I want to be more like X"...not out loud of course
I see some characteristic or an overal persona that I really like. I say, "If I were more like X or had characteristics like X, I would like myself better. I would like myself better and more people would like me because of it. And when everyone likes each other I'm able to open up and everyone can have fun."
I must point out that I'm NOT striving for an end goal here. The whole point of this self betterment is the process. To never give up and in the process become at peace with the ever changing nature of things. To be.
I am the culmination of everything I was before, plus more. I do this and I try to be selfless with it.
-------I am my own but I give myself to everyone else.-------
<-----This is something that really rings with me.
This sounds like 4 or 3 mixed with 7 and 9 right? I build off of all of this. I'm sure you noticed the bruce lee picture and quote. I take in little parts of his attitude that I like. I try to build it into my own persona. I do this with a lot of fictional characters. Characters that have no bearing in the real world but have attitudes I can recreate and make into my own. THIS is something I do a lot. If you could type that attitude I would be in your debt. Perhaps it fits under the previous said of trying to fill in the empty picture frame? But MY own image is in the picture frame. It always is. I see people and thoughts and get inspired to add to the picture. Self betterment. The picture has never really been completely changed. I want to be the best me I can be.


That's 3. I'm convinced of this being your core type at this point. I'd lay out for you how your process fits perfectly with Scruffy's earlier description but it seems you can already see that.



I'm not different as in I have things that other people don't, there is just no one else just like me. The thoughts the decisions the actions are all different. We are all fairly similar on a whole but so, so different up close. Remarkably different, yet we share crucial things like love, and think alike, but not the same.


Who is we? Could you explain this to me a bit more? Looks a lot like you're comparing yourself to someone.



I could see either 3w4 or 4w3 from this revelation....again with the 7w6/6w7 and 9w8/8w9. I'm really feeling more towards 4w3, 7w6, 9w8 right now though.
Possibly you can help me choose more accurately
This is good, I'm getting much more comfortable with this.....


The closest thing I see to 4 is your sense of distinct individuality. That's not enough to make a 4 although it does add toward the flavor of a 3w4 as opposed to 3w2. Adding more toward the w4 flavor is your sense of humility. 3w4's are very well aware of how off putting superiority issues are for others, so they temper down their magnificence by denying how great they really are.




Another thought. I've realized the core need of digging through all of this stuff and trying to find my MBTI type and enneagram type and any other type I can get my hands on. I have this thought for better or for worse that if I can figure out myself, if I can be centered and good, I can face anything. I don't need to predict the future. I don't need to 'worry'. The only thing I'll have to worry about is if I'm still aligned with what is good. If I can find myself centered yet still open to any new characteristics or flaws in my existing one, I'll be happy and comfortable, ready for life, and possess the ability to just be. I feel that no matter the type anymore I'm getting much closer to the thing I came on here to do, even if I didn't realize it at the time.


What I placed in bold are 6ish concerns.



I'm glad you're getting something out of this. These forums can be great for learning tools to self-discovery. It can be a very painful process but it's worthwhile. On the other hand, it's extremely easy to use the forums as a means of avoiding that very process. Be careful with that.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks for the specific and useful response.
I agree more so after being engaged in activities and seeing my actions that 3w4 is my core type. I also agree with the 9w8 description. On the instinctual variants portion I've always thought SO/SP but I'm open to debate on SP/SO.
I know there is no distinct correlation between MBTI and E but when was the last time you heard of a type 3 ENFP?
Sometimes I act more ENFJ as I can be authoritative and more stable, but at other times my Fi can be so apparent. Alas I do believe that would be another thread.

I'm still resentful that this is who I have become, rather than who I was. My father was an overly agressive drunk who never really grew up, and I feel that if I wasn't forced to become so aware of my actions to prevent confrontation I wouldn't be so self conscious and my attitude wouldn't be so conflicted. At first I was hard headed and was never scared to assert my views. I had healthy confidence and my father was never a deciding factor. Then it got worse and there was nothing I could do as a growing child to combat my dad. It was either avoid all conflict at my own expense or face greater expense from continuing my defiance.

I feel that I broke during those years and I still havent been put back the right way. A defensive mechanism was put in place of my personality and I've never been the same. Hence my always present feeling of being fake. I try to be honest but I'm forced to lie. My circumstances became constructs. In my head I wanted to be the exact opposite of my dad and be everything that he wasn't. I hid my anger and I pleased people. But by doing this I ignored myself.

Then to add to it all last year my mother was diagnosed with cancer and I was forced to reconcile with who I became. I realized how disconnected I was from my intentions and actions. I indented to be uplifting and strong and all that came out was depression and weakness. I became isolated when I wanted to reach out and connect. I realized I became everything I didn't want to be-I still don't want to be. I don't want to be 3 6 9, It's nothing what I was and it's everything I became to be. I was always the leader and compassionate friend. I was loved for my idealism and when people disapproved I was OK with that, I was my own. Now I'm reserved and conflicted. I revel in compliments and I become destroyed by criticism. It's everything I didn't want.

I feel that I lack the confidence and certainty of character that I rightfully deserve. I used to be such a happy and strong child. But for right now I am who I am. Perhaps 3w4 6w7 9w8 is correct and I have just ignored it as I always viewed myself as someone else.
I can't accept it right now and I still hold on to the thought that I have not rightfully developed and that someday I will find the correct answer. Since you asked I'm 18 and was a very late bloomer. I'm still under construction. I'm not saying that I will change who I am, but I can change who I've become.
I don't think any more could really come from this right now as I can't answer your questions honestly since I don't really know them myself.
Thanks again
 

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Types 3, and 6 are really quite versatile in terms of MBTI types (any type can be a 6). I'd say any Extrovert can be a 3, and that Thinking Introverts work too.

Introverted Feelers are rare to be 3s, but probably more common in the Js.

I'm glad you've found your type, 3w4s (no bias here) are awesome.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
This isn't right.
Straight from the stanford inventory test, one of the most reliable ones.

"Being the best at what I do is a strong motivator for me, and I have received a lot of recognition over the years for my
accomplishments. I get a lot done and am successful in almost everything I take on. I identify strongly with what I do,
because to a large degree I think your value is based on what you accomplish and the recognition you get for it. I always
have more to do than will fit into the time available, so I often set aside feelings and self-reflection in order to get things
done. Because there's always something to do, I find it hard to just sit and do nothing. I get impatient with people who
don't use my time well. Sometimes I would rather just take over a project someone is completing too slowly. I like to feel
and appear "on top" of any situation. While I like to compete, I am also a good team player."

I don't identify strongly with what I do, value is not based on recognition! I keep most of my accomplishments to myself! No one even knows much about me! Most of my days are filled with sloth and I never have a schedule! I find it very relaxing to sit and do nothing! Competition makes me nervous!
THIS ISN'T RIGHT!

It's so frustrating because no matter how much I explain the truth always seems to elude my words! I'm done playing complacent! I could leave this thread as it is but I feel an attachment to what has already conspired. Something isn't right and there's nothing that can be said to fix it right now. I only feel more conflicted and more depressed. I need more time alone and less outward advice.
Yet again I thank you and this was no less required for growth whether I'm a certain type or not, but now It's my turn.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
I realized now that it does fit, regardless of circumstance. I never saw my good traits reflected in type 3, only the bad. I didn't recognize my determination and accomplishment that fits in the type. I was picturing who I should be rather than who I am. I want to be recognized and loved, and theres really no getting around that.

I think the enneagram definitely hits home harder than the MBTI for people and the insides aren't generally as pretty as imagined. I'm more comfortable with my nature now, but I will say: most of the 3 descriptions are vague and fairly wrong. Most of them are pointed towards TJ types and highlight less than desirable traits. On the other fixes I'm going with either 3w4 7w6 9w8 or 3w4 6w7 and 8w9. The 3 6 9 combination still does not contribute to many of my attributes. Anyways it was a rough ride but it's smoothing out ever so slowly.
This is pretty embarrassing but one of the things that was a tide turner for me was realizing that Naruto is a 3w4 too.
Uzumaki Naruto Biography | Naruto HQ for those who aren't familiar
When I was younger I related immensely to Naruto, the disconnection with parents, the general disapproval of peers. At the time I had a crush on a girl who was much more concered about a much cooler guy. Now we share a very deep friendship with similar dynamics to Naruto and Sakura. The rather optimistic look and the determination to become inspiring and recognized. The inner sadness yet the determination for something else. He was a large part of who I tried to become. Always outspoken and light hearted despite the gloomy past. The power to inspire others.
For the longest while I thought he was an 8 or 4, but it's clear now. At the core he has the need for approval, and the compassion and determination that cannot be explained by 8 or 4. He is unique because he strives for the best, not because of his need to be unique. He is not striving for power nor consumed by aggression. This is not to say he is not in touch with his anger and he knows how to take up his share. ENFP 3w4, just like me.

Lance Armstrong is another person I look up to who I realized is 3w4. The determination and ability to set aside thoughts and feelings, which I realize is not wholly bad. If we had to understand everything and feel out everything my beloved spontaneity would be gone. He is completely his own person and valiantly strives for his cause.
As a pokemon child I realize that even damn Ash was an ENFP 3w4. "I want to be the very best". Even so he never let that get infront of his friends. As badly fleshed out as his character was I always wanted to be like him.
Goku had a 3 fix, his dedication and need for success. Always up for competition but never competitive. He was the best at what he did and was so humble.
I also think that Bruce Lee had a 3w4 fix, a comforting thought. He wanted to be famous, he wanted the recognition and equality. He was amazingly humble and assertive at the same time.

As long as I can remember I wanted to be like them. I hope I am correct in saying that I'm not too far off of my mark. I do not want to be them rather, I am just inspired to be like them. At first I thought I could never be like them if I was a type 3, because they were so authentic and so willing in the face of discrimination and failure. I thought they must be some kind of 4 or 8, so bold. But this is not saying that they are different types, this is saying that they are healthy 3s. I think what we encountered was the incredible fear that I had become something entirely different from who I strived for. How could I ever be like them if they were inherently different? But now I see that deep down we are similar, even if at first the reactions are different. 4s or 8s would not be able to do the things that make these characters tick. The ability to see the similarities and strengthen them, and the ability to give power and work for equality is something that at first I glazed over and never thought were able to live inside 3s.

What all of these people had in common was the healthy support of failure. They welcomed failure as an opportunity, something I must work on. A very important thing that I must learn to embrace.

All my idols are idealistic achievers, something I thought came naturally. But I realize it comes from the need to achieve, which is not a bad thing! Things don't just happen, you have to want them to happen. I thought to be honest you should never strive for something, it should come naturally, but now I realize my folly. Hard work is essential and not conclusive to something fake.

For the longest time I thought 3's were incapable of the honesty and compassion I so value, but they are no less capable than any other. Always portrayed as inherently fake but I realize they are capable of the strong moral codes and honesty that I desire.
 

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I think most 3 descriptions sound ExTP however, as far as I can tell, they can be any variety of types. I don't type others much with MBTI. Scruffy might be able to help you more on that count. From what you were saying earlier in the thread, it sounds like you might need a little help discerning the judging functions.

The push and pull you've been going through with your type is 6ish. You never really said anything about your interests. If you feel like expanding on that, we can talk more about your head fix. If you're done for now, that's fine too.
 
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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Well as uncomfortable as the previous discussion was, I feel much better now. Everything is a bit clearer and some of my prejudices are bit less pronounced now.
So if you're still up for it.....

Interests..... I'm interested in just about anything!
The interests that tend to take up most of my time though are the following.
I love to preform. I've been learning music and preforming infront of audiences for as long as I can remember. For me there is nothing quite the same as being on stage and seeing the eyes of the audience become softer and entertained. I love to entertain and I love to make people laugh. Comedy, Music, and Acting are three big ones.

I'm also one for sports. I played soccer competitively since middle school up to college, now I just play recreationally. I rock climbed for about 3 years and I ride my bike everywhere on campus. Occasionally I'll do the century (100 mile) rides when people invite me. I practice Jeet Kune Do (Bruce Lee's martial art) and I'm into the philosophy side of martial arts as well. I get in tune with my physical side and I feel best when I feel fit. I love the mindless instinct that happens with physical things, it's very natural.

I love cartoons and video games, and anything I can get my head into. If there is something I can relate to and bring into my life I can get engulfed in it.
You can probably tell but I love talking as well. I love the interaction between me and someone else, seeing their views and just discussing whatever comes to mind. I enjoy general activity and warmth. I enjoy physical sensation and mingling emotions. I enjoy exploring ideas with other people.
I'm an avid fantasy creator, usually about some possibility where I would save someone, and I would become loved etc. I love reading Epics and I'm a sucker for any heroic tale. Super powers, knights in shining armor, general good guys, anything with saving in it.

I'm interested but a bit less enthusiastic about technology, science, literature, mechanical things, how things work, why things happen, and much much more. I'm a very curious fellow and I'm quick to pick things up. I'm studying to be a Physical Therapist, and I'm interested in the human body both psychology and biology. I'm interested in the fantasy of people and the science of people. I'm interested in people, and since I'm a person, I'm interested in me.

But overall if I were to fill my day with anything it would involve spending time with people that I enjoy, and who also enjoy my company. Better yet if that time is spent doing something, like swimming, eating, or some other sport. The feelings I thrive off are those after I make someone I like laugh and enjoy themselves. When other people that I care about are having a good time it's assured that I am too. It's not that I need to help people, I just love to make people happy. As soon as I know people are enjoying my company I get incredibly happy. On the flip side though when I'm not too healthy and I know it, it's hard to make others happy, because I'm not happy.

When I'm a in a healthy mood, it's infectious, and it's rewarding to see others smile. So I try to be the best I can be to make this happen more. I like to make myself better and to reveal ways that others can do the same. I'm generally not too preachy and I prefer to teach through action.

During my summers I volunteer at a camp which reenacts books for children. I'm part of the creative group that makes up quests and missions for the kids to go on. Help move the plot of the camp. Most of it is fantasy or sci-fi detective stuff, anything with interesting stuff for children. I'm an actor and usually play in the huge fight scenes and sometimes I fill in for counselors. I love teaching the children that they too can be heroes, as most of them are the type that get picked on at school.
I'm interested in anything that sounds fun and anything that can help me be a better person.


Well that was self centered...oh well I guess that's what this thread is about.
What are your thoughts on head fix, and does the gut fix of 9w8 still seem true?

I looked at the instinctual variants for 3 page and the SX/SP description really seemed to ring a chord, but I think SO is in the top two... The SO/SP description was so centered around materialism, something I never really thought about lately but I guess that could be me...? I'm really not that centered on having nice things though. Having deep friendships and people who I can talk to are much more important to me. Having people around me is just comforting in knowing that you are valued- or at least accounted for. My body does need to be comfortable though, I like having things that allow full expression. I'm not really sure on the difference between SX and SO.


Also I never really thanked you and scruffy for continuing to point out my 3w4 thoughts, as now I'm much more comfortable with my nature. I think ENFP 3w4 suits me incredibly well and I would never feel as confident in my choice if I had continued to think I was a 4 or 7. So thank you.

P.S. I was talking to a pretty girl the other day and she said that she enjoyed being around me, a felt a visceral spark of energy shoot up in my chest and I laughed. I laughed because now I know I just want people to like me and I'm comfortable with it. It's who I am.
 

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You're welcome. Looks like the 6 to 7 range but I'm still leaning toward 6. How quickly do you become bored with your interests once you feel you've mastered them? Also, how do you feel about matters of certainty?

I'm not seeing anything to lean away from 9w8 at this point. If you wish to talk more about how you deal with conflict in general, that may help.

I don't think you're sexual first. People with a strong sexual component come across very intimately, sharing details about themselves. There's something about the way they talk to you too. Like they using your name a lot (but at the right moments). There's more, that's just the only example that's coming to mind at the moment. Their writing style tends to make me feel like we know each other really well. Like in how a gentle touch while talking can make you feel more connected to someone. I feel like I'm getting touched when I'm reading something written by someone with sx first. If I'm not open to the connection, it feels like I just got groped by a stranger on the bus.
 
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