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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
...but I really cannot decide whether I am an INTJ or P.

Every single internet test I have done tells me INTJ but after reading the type profiles for both, there are traits in each which I can relate to.

There are some main traits which are the main cause of the confusion:

- When being taught new theories, especially in Science I am quite quick to grasp the concept and will then go on to relentlessly ask why and how - I am never happy with "It just is".
- I spend my life on Google, researching topics and I don't know if this is the P's 'search for truth'?
- However, many of my teachers/relatives have often said that I am a natural leader, which is generally a J trait.

Also, is it possible to be a very organised P?

I'm sorry that this post is not very good, it was written whilst responsible for my 2 week old cousin so please forgive me!

Any advice at all would be really helpful, not knowing is getting quite frustrating now!

Thank you!
 
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I would say concentrate less on the letters and more on the cognitive functions

INTJ- Ni Te Fi Se

INTP- Ti Ne Si Fe

Read up on the cognitive functions, that should give you a clearer understanding whether you are Ni dominant or Ti dominant.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you hemoglobin, I have had a quick look for definintions of Ni/Ti but the results were limited.

Would you mind giving me a quick description of each?

Thank you!
 

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Do you notice you carry through with plans, and make a more methodical approach to a new problem, or are you more into the beginning of project, leaving a lot of half-finished stuff?

If you read the profiles, the INTJ and the INTP seem similar. In fact, under many circumstances, their "output" will be similar, they will just get there in a very different way.
 

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Organization really has little to do with it, although being a P may very well manifest in the lack of external structure overall. Something more helpful may be to pay attention to how you feel when having non-finished projects lingering in the background. If it makes you anxious, then it's probably the J (Te).
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Hmm...interesting.

If there is a deadline set by an exterior source (ie not by me) then not getting the work done does make me extremely anxious to the point where I can only calm down by making a list/plan.

However, if it's merely something I am interested in/have decided to do myself then there is not so much anxiety caused by not following through. I also often go through stages of interest - for example, I am currently extremely interested in personality etc. so will spend my time researching that. However, before that I was interested in looking up university courses so I am probably more interested in gathering the knowledge than actually making a project out of it, although this information is being gathered to help form a decision!!

Oh dear - this is just getting more and more confusing...and I really do NOT like confusing!

PS - does the fact that I have just spent over an hour reading forums whilst knowing I should be getting ready for bed mean anything!!
 

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INTP vs INTJ

INTP:
-weak natural social skills
-quiet
-disorganized, analyzes every possibility (which often never ends)
-outlook may be positive or negative
-does not feel obsessive urge to fix every inefficient system
-often low self-esteem
-wishes he/she were more extroverted
-procrastinates often
-dislikes conflict, but enjoys discussion and sometimes debates
-tends to have poor math skills, enjoys history, language more
-considers fashion when selecting clothes

INTJ:
-no natural social skills
-quiet, unless something excites them
-systematic
-generally negative about everything, cynical
-obsessive urge to fix every inefficient system
-megalomania (which is really just an accurate assessment of one's skills)
-looks down on extraverts
-may or may not procrastinate. does not have chronic problem with procrastination
-highly aggressive (although this may be controlled) academically, and often in other ways (physically aggressive only as a means of self-defense)
-usually dresses in purely utilitarian dark colors
-perfectionist

Both may learn to simulate emotions, and spend time researching seemingly random topics.
 

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TheClog17, in regards to what Ni vs Ne is here is a very good and helpful article written by InvisibleJim:

Ne/Ni Jungian Cognitive Function Interaction​

Good Afternoon Ladies and Gentlemen,

I decided it was time to introduce something that hasn't been discussed on depth in any of the major mbti type forums that I've frequented over the past year. It's one of my particular pet topics which people often come to ask me about in various guises. I've talked about it in some depth before but I thought it may be time to document it for posterity.

One of the great complications on this type of interaction is that people often have their own definition of what Ne and Ni are; therefore it is best to start by letting you know how I have come to define and understand these cognitive functions.

Ne Preference and Interpersonal Interaction

Ne is the easier to understand of the two; Ne has the attitude of preferring to extrapolate ideas from external stimulus. As the dominant Ne types you will see in ENTPs and ENFPs have a tendency to seek out stimulating ideas from interaction with others.

These types often lament that they feel like 'knowledge thieves' taking others ideas and seeing alternate uses for them; of course what they may not realise is that they have a greater ability to spontaneously modify this idea (sometimes wildly) and find a new idea that few others may have brought to fruition before.

This therefore teaches dominant Ne users that interpersonal reaction and stimulus giving is a 'good thing'. Thus if they feel they wish to improve their interactions with another person (shower them with love/make friends etc.) they will have a natural reaction of delivering large amounts of stimulus to that person and expect the same in return.

Ni Preference and Interpersonal Interaction

Ni has a more complex definition that I have failed to see anyone accurately define at all. Ni has the attitude of preferring to interpolate optimum systems from ideas based upon internal stimulus. This gives the dominant Ni types, the INTJ and INFJ's a focus on 'key symbolic ideas' which can be brought forward and optimized to build structure. Because Ni reacts to internal stimulus, these types will be external stimulus avoidant (sic. human interaction) as they would prefer space to help them solve whatever symbolic problem is running in their head.

In human interaction these types often appear acutely observant; although they may have phased out to deal with some lingering internal conundrum. The support function adds considerably more definition to interaction as it is the external aspect. INTJs when they flip from Ni to Te will appear critical, viewing ideas as systems to be interpolated and optimized to solve any outstanding problems or to develop their understanding of ideas, with Ni providing a symbolic focus on the key aspects. INFJs will appear giving, with Fe actualising a need to empathically share what they view are the iconic themes that are driving them; expect lots of subtle but powerful emotional gestures based upon others needs.

Therefore, dominant Ni users view intrapersonal thinking and blocking out external stimulus as the preferred opportunity available to them. If they they feel they wish to make friends or express love to another they will do so by interacting via. their secondary external aspect while dotting it with key iconic themes that their Ni prefers. They will then retreat to allow the other time to digest the concept as they would do themselves, regardless of the partner’s preference. As they wish significant space and time to flex their Ni, they expect others also to wish it as a consequence.

Opposing Interpersonal Interaction

To summarise where we are at this point it is important to note that:
Ne types will prefer to receive and give stimulus as is their preference
Ni types will prefer to have and give space as is their preference.

These two functional attitudes to interpersonal interaction are directly opposed which can lead to communication confusion between Ni and Ne users.

I have often stressed that as a dominant Ni user I often feel that any interaction with an Ne user is immediately a loss. Because my preference is to sit and ponder and introvert to have a lengthy conversation with an ENxP I lose a large portion of my ability to do so while I feed their Ne. In effect, they love it, but I lose doing what I prefer to some degree.

The side effect of such positive interaction for the Ne dominant is that they may choose to like the Ni dominant so much that they shower them with attention, without realising that this makes the Ni dominant feel at even greater of a loss as opposed to allowing time for the Ni dominant to recover and ponder. They may then become offended because if the Ni user wishes to be friendly with them they may receed into their shell because that is the Ni preference.

As a result it is very important to find some kind of type interaction balance between Ne and Ni users and an understanding of how the other shows affection is the flip side of what may be naturally expected.

Personal Note

I have always had significant difficulty doing so in my own life; often having at least one ENFP around bombarding me with what I would view as mild dramas that I wish they would go away and solve themselves (and yes, they definitely have a lot more energy than I have to solve it!); of course this is my misunderstanding their ultimate sign of affection 'Look at this problem! Stimulus' without realising that it is a sign of belligerence to the Ni user. Also note that the Ni user shows love in a way the Ne does not necessarily reconcile 'I love you now I give you space!' they will say 'where is the interaction'.

Of course, we know from a development perspective that it would be foolish to ignore the interaction of this type as Ni users require this external stimulus to develop their supporting functions, therefore Ni users should seek out this type of interaction in a way they find manageable and Ne users should appreciate that the Ni user will require to retreat and introvert much more than they may be happy with.
For further reading on Ti I recommend this site : Introverted Thinking

Here is a snippet of what is on there:

'Proposed definition #1: Orientation to underlying cause

Introverted Thinking (Ti) is the attitude that beneath the complexity of what is manifest (apparent, observed, experienced) there is an underlying unity: a source or essence that emerges and takes form in different ways depending on circumstances. What is manifest is seen as a manifestation of something. From a Ti standpoint, the way to respond to things is in a way that is faithful to that underlying cause or source and helps it emerge fully and complete, without interference from any notion of self. The way to understand that underlying essence is to learn to simultaneously see many relationships within what is manifest, to see every element in relation to every other element, the relationships being the "signature" of the underlying unity. This can only be experienced directly, not second-hand.'


I hope this helps you on your quest to better understand where you stand in regards to your typing. If you have any questions I don't mind you PMing me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ulgh...still no closer to figuring this out. It seems that every time I come near a conclusion I find some more evidence that points to the other option. It's really very frustrating!

For instance, after reading the thread - "you know you are an INTP when" I was pretty sure that I was P buuut I kept looking things up and discovered that Ps are generally right brained and I am very much left brained!

Also, that list posted by BeanDelphiki was helpful, but I found that descriptions from each list would fit.

I did also follow the advice to look at cognitive functions but, again, I could relate to both descriptions. Maybe I'm just not understanding it all, or maybe I'm reading into it a bit too much. Hmmm.

However, I did find that those who are Ni dominant often come to a concept without realising their brain was working and I don't think this is me. Although I do sometimes have this problem in lessons, my brain is most certainly never quiet and I'm pretty sure that this is a Ti thing.

Any more information/advice would be unbelievably helpful!
Thank you!! :happy:
 

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INTP: The living dictionary.
spontaneous

INTJ: The quiet flame.
indecisive/thoughtfully

Check out:
Sticky: What Pisses Off INTJs?
Sticky: You know you are an INTJ when...
Sticky: INTJ Stereotypes

Can you indentify yourself with it? Damn its so easy, when you are like this you don´t have to take the MBTI-Test:cool:
 

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I found this to be one of the most helpful guides: INTJ vs INTP: A Guide on Typology Central. You'll have to google it since I'm not yet allowed to post links *glowers*

I'd say you're an INTJ. If you were an INTP your introductory post would have been several (hundred) paragraphs longer.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thank you catniss, I had a good read and it did add to the descriptions I have been reading on the web but I can still find traits that apply in both sections.

I think it's my thinking processes that are confusing me the most (although that is arguably the entire basis of personality, I mean it in slightly more specific terms)...

...for instance, I like to know how and why about everything that interests me, and will often spend my time arguing with myself in my head, or going down routes of questioning which go something like this (or at least, this is similar to what I wrote down in my 'thinking notebook'):

(Me, in the shower this morning)
If in the same volumes, a liquid, gas and solid all have varying amounts of atoms which looks like this:

solid>liquid>gas

...then could a liquid be compressed in such a way that the atoms are packed together in a more solid like fashion - not really as a force is exacted from the liquid (maybe upthrust??). Therefore, there must be something very specific about a liquid/gas which means that the atoms are pushed apart...AHA...kinetic energy.

...so, is KE particular to the electrons or the atom as a whole - this then started off another thought stream about how electrons are perpetually moving, and how? which was then firing simultaneously with this one which continued on, although I will not bore you with the details.

So, is this thought process more P or J??

Also, would it be possible to be a serious/left brained P as I am definitely serious, although can sometimes become very excited when a) with my friends or b) I am discussing/thinking about something very interesting! Even my own mother thinks I am too serious!

Anyway, thank you so much everyone for your help - this indecisiveness must be getting terribly tiresome and I really appreciate your patience!
 
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