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Well, I am a 6 and I will be brief. I can relate to the imbalance of occupied thought and action-Sounds like you know that it can become a deliberate choice. I purposely "rock the boat" from time to time.
 

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But, isn't this about getting free from the enneagram? Is not the enneagram about "finding the ocean" where no type's-fear is dominant, but all one (the so called "center of the enneagram") infinite self? So, if you free yourself from the E6's (or any other type's) fixations, are you still a 6?
 

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MOTM Feb 2010
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Discussion Starter #23
But, isn't this about getting free from the enneagram? Is not the enneagram about "finding the ocean" where no type's-fear is dominant, but all one (the so called "center of the enneagram") infinite self? So, if you free yourself from the E6's (or any other type's) fixations, are you still a 6?
I've often wondered about this. Can one ever be "free" of type? Is spiritual awakening akin to whitewashing one's personality? I doubt that is the case. It seems some residue of preference would remain.
 

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I've often wondered about this. Can one ever be "free" of type? Is spiritual awakening akin to whitewashing one's personality? I doubt that is the case. It seems some residue of preference would remain.
I see, thanks for your answer. I think I did this with the E4. I'll explain myself: I was an E4 (or at least I had an important portion of it) when I was a teenager after some traumatic experience. I was so down on melancholy and all that stuff, so much into the ups and downs of the E4, and after two years I started to analyze it. I found then that I was only following the same cycle of up and down, and that the true problem was that I was not being what I was. Now, I'm not an expert on enneagram, but the idendity is the obsession that ''drives out of itself" the E4. I was also able to identify that in others. So I literally went out of it, I became what I truly am by doing what I think is right and getting out of the cycle. This has been the biggest source of happines in my life, at least one of the biggest. Now, the same way you talked about this religious meditations you used to help yourself, I also discovered budist and oriental thoughts, which helped me to find "what it is" as a way of being and not a "self-designate" concept. Now, I came here, and when I told people I used to be an E4 but I wasn't anymore (actually you become very distant with those that still keep that "desintegration" -using your own words- you have already lef behind) some of them -at least a girl, I can remember- told me that I was wrong. That you can't change your enneagram type in your whole life. She was an E4, of course. She didn't believe me even when I described the type's deviations.

Now, after a long time of self-steem recover and increasement, and also a long and continuated introspective work of observation -you mentioned that also- I found that I had a long percentage of E6, I just didn't noticed so much because the whole thought's triad is my primary. So, now the course of the events brought me to the source of the fears (my primary E6 fears) (or I think they are, at least) and after a mind-horror and stressful weeks (where my self steem was bunching and progressively beating those fears) I successfully finished a stuff with an exam related to this fears and I felt how much of this fears started to get broken.
So I came here to this post because I knew there was something interesing here. And exactly, I think this is exactly what is happening: I've done the first steps to get "integrated" (using your own words again). Is the same feeling of confussion I had the last time, I knew I was doing the right thing but the fear of lefting this "lacuna" you told about was also frightening me.

Anyway, I just wanted to share this thing, I think this may be useful for the one who's trying to left the "lacuna" or any other who can read it. I think probably any type has a "lacuna" itself, and since we have many types, as much as deep the wound is, the hardest seem to get away from it. Anyway, I'm glad you made it. Personally I'm terrified (my E6 wound is much bigger than the E4's was) (that could explaing why I was able to get away from it while I was so young) but reading this has helped me to connect one thing with the other, and I'm not so anxious now for returning to a safe place.

Now, to finish, I will answer the question since my point of view and experience: I think that maybe different types have different kinds of "oceanic feeling" once you free from their respectives fears. What I'm sure of, although, is that those kinds of "way of being" must be manteined, just the same way you need to keep going to the gym to mantein your shape. For example, if I have sex with a person that I don't really like, or I fall into some kind of morbid pleasure, I can have a relapse. This may be related with the Fi somehow (I have identify myself as a INxP) and the relapse could be related with the disharmony of my personal values (again, you're not being yourself = E4 wound). So, I hope I didn't get too extended and that this could be useful. See ya!
 

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MOTM Feb 2010
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Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I agree with you entirely. I would also add that as we grow, we do so incrementally. That is to say, we are actually stuck in many lacuna and manage to free ourselves from one at a time. I've got a lot of work ahead of me, but at least I'm now aware of just how much work needs to be done.

Yes, it is a sisyphean endeavor; back-sliding is always immanent.

I see, thanks for your answer. I think I did this with the E4. I'll explain myself: I was an E4 (or at least I had an important portion of it) when I was a teenager after some traumatic experience. I was so down on melancholy and all that stuff, so much into the ups and downs of the E4, and after two years I started to analyze it. I found then that I was only following the same cycle of up and down, and that the true problem was that I was not being what I was. Now, I'm not an expert on enneagram, but the idendity is the obsession that ''drives out of itself" the E4. I was also able to identify that in others. So I literally went out of it, I became what I truly am by doing what I think is right and getting out of the cycle. This has been the biggest source of happines in my life, at least one of the biggest. Now, the same way you talked about this religious meditations you used to help yourself, I also discovered budist and oriental thoughts, which helped me to find "what it is" as a way of being and not a "self-designate" concept. Now, I came here, and when I told people I used to be an E4 but I wasn't anymore (actually you become very distant with those that still keep that "desintegration" -using your own words- you have already lef behind) some of them -at least a girl, I can remember- told me that I was wrong. That you can't change your enneagram type in your whole life. She was an E4, of course. She didn't believe me even when I described the type's deviations.

Now, after a long time of self-steem recover and increasement, and also a long and continuated introspective work of observation -you mentioned that also- I found that I had a long percentage of E6, I just didn't noticed so much because the whole thought's triad is my primary. So, now the course of the events brought me to the source of the fears (my primary E6 fears) (or I think they are, at least) and after a mind-horror and stressful weeks (where my self steem was bunching and progressively beating those fears) I successfully finished a stuff with an exam related to this fears and I felt how much of this fears started to get broken.
So I came here to this post because I knew there was something interesing here. And exactly, I think this is exactly what is happening: I've done the first steps to get "integrated" (using your own words again). Is the same feeling of confussion I had the last time, I knew I was doing the right thing but the fear of lefting this "lacuna" you told about was also frightening me.

Anyway, I just wanted to share this thing, I think this may be useful for the one who's trying to left the "lacuna" or any other who can read it. I think probably any type has a "lacuna" itself, and since we have many types, as much as deep the wound is, the hardest seem to get away from it. Anyway, I'm glad you made it. Personally I'm terrified (my E6 wound is much bigger than the E4's was) (that could explaing why I was able to get away from it while I was so young) but reading this has helped me to connect one thing with the other, and I'm not so anxious now for returning to a safe place.

Now, to finish, I will answer the question since my point of view and experience: I think that maybe different types have different kinds of "oceanic feeling" once you free from their respectives fears. What I'm sure of, although, is that those kinds of "way of being" must be manteined, just the same way you need to keep going to the gym to mantein your shape. For example, if I have sex with a person that I don't really like, or I fall into some kind of morbid pleasure, I can have a relapse. This may be related with the Fi somehow (I have identify myself as a INxP) and the relapse could be related with the disharmony of my personal values (again, you're not being yourself = E4 wound). So, I hope I didn't get too extended and that this could be useful. See ya!
 

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I see, thanks for your answer. I think I did this with the E4. I'll explain myself: I was an E4 (or at least I had an important portion of it) when I was a teenager after some traumatic experience. I was so down on melancholy and all that stuff, so much into the ups and downs of the E4, and after two years I started to analyze it. I found then that I was only following the same cycle of up and down, and that the true problem was that I was not being what I was. Now, I'm not an expert on enneagram, but the idendity is the obsession that ''drives out of itself" the E4. I was also able to identify that in others. So I literally went out of it, I became what I truly am by doing what I think is right and getting out of the cycle. This has been the biggest source of happines in my life, at least one of the biggest. Now, the same way you talked about this religious meditations you used to help yourself, I also discovered budist and oriental thoughts, which helped me to find "what it is" as a way of being and not a "self-designate" concept. Now, I came here, and when I told people I used to be an E4 but I wasn't anymore (actually you become very distant with those that still keep that "desintegration" -using your own words- you have already lef behind) some of them -at least a girl, I can remember- told me that I was wrong. That you can't change your enneagram type in your whole life. She was an E4, of course. She didn't believe me even when I described the type's deviations.

Now, after a long time of self-steem recover and increasement, and also a long and continuated introspective work of observation -you mentioned that also- I found that I had a long percentage of E6, I just didn't noticed so much because the whole thought's triad is my primary. So, now the course of the events brought me to the source of the fears (my primary E6 fears) (or I think they are, at least) and after a mind-horror and stressful weeks (where my self steem was bunching and progressively beating those fears) I successfully finished a stuff with an exam related to this fears and I felt how much of this fears started to get broken.
So I came here to this post because I knew there was something interesing here. And exactly, I think this is exactly what is happening: I've done the first steps to get "integrated" (using your own words again). Is the same feeling of confussion I had the last time, I knew I was doing the right thing but the fear of lefting this "lacuna" you told about was also frightening me.

Anyway, I just wanted to share this thing, I think this may be useful for the one who's trying to left the "lacuna" or any other who can read it. I think probably any type has a "lacuna" itself, and since we have many types, as much as deep the wound is, the hardest seem to get away from it. Anyway, I'm glad you made it. Personally I'm terrified (my E6 wound is much bigger than the E4's was) (that could explaing why I was able to get away from it while I was so young) but reading this has helped me to connect one thing with the other, and I'm not so anxious now for returning to a safe place.

Now, to finish, I will answer the question since my point of view and experience: I think that maybe different types have different kinds of "oceanic feeling" once you free from their respectives fears. What I'm sure of, although, is that those kinds of "way of being" must be manteined, just the same way you need to keep going to the gym to mantein your shape. For example, if I have sex with a person that I don't really like, or I fall into some kind of morbid pleasure, I can have a relapse. This may be related with the Fi somehow (I have identify myself as a INxP) and the relapse could be related with the disharmony of my personal values (again, you're not being yourself = E4 wound). So, I hope I didn't get too extended and that this could be useful. See ya!
This is a very interesting post! I am 16 going on 17 and like you I thought I was type 4. But, what I didn't know was, that I was I was just having an "ansty" moment in my life (around the end of school) so I mistyped as 4.

But, as summer progressed, I loosend that angst and then I thought I was type 5 becuase I am a loner and im non- conformist. However, while I may be these things, I don't have the confidence of mind like 5s do and Im not as greedy or dectached from people. So, I concluded just a few days ago, that Im type 6 with a heavy 5 wing.

This actually explians alot. When I was in my preteen years( 9-13) I was a very extroverted type like a type 7w6 wing. However, I wasn't really being myself and adopted a fake persona to please the people around me because when I was younger I was a very very werid kid (ages 4-9) and was really messed up. I don't even know how I became more "acceptable and normal" now. Why Im emphizing extroversion is because 6's are both intoverted and extroverted. I discoverd I am both but I lead to the more intoverted side.

So, I was a always a 6 even if my personality changed quite a bit. Even in my extroverted phase I maintianted a type 6 paranoia by asking alot of questions, even stupid ones. One time I asked now my ex- girlfreind "Are you okay" (because she always looked despressed) and I asked her this like says dozens of times and screames "YES!!" hystercailly. Im doing better now on maintianing paranoia. But I still find it hard to trust others, sometimes.
 

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This is a very interesting post! I am 16 going on 17 and like you I thought I was type 4. But, what I didn't know was, that I was I was just having an "ansty" moment in my life (around the end of school) so I mistyped as 4.

But, as summer progressed, I loosend that angst and then I thought I was type 5 becuase I am a loner and im non- conformist. However, while I may be these things, I don't have the confidence of mind like 5s do and Im not as greedy or dectached from people. So, I concluded just a few days ago, that Im type 6 with a heavy 5 wing.

This actually explians alot. When I was in my preteen years( 9-13) I was a very extroverted type like a type 7w6 wing. However, I wasn't really being myself and adopted a fake persona to please the people around me because when I was younger I was a very very werid kid (ages 4-9) and was really messed up. I don't even know how I became more "acceptable and normal" now. Why Im emphizing extroversion is because 6's are both intoverted and extroverted. I discoverd I am both but I lead to the more intoverted side.

So, I was a always a 6 even if my personality changed quite a bit. Even in my extroverted phase I maintianted a type 6 paranoia by asking alot of questions, even stupid ones. One time I asked now my ex- girlfreind "Are you okay" (because she always looked despressed) and I asked her this like says dozens of times and screames "YES!!" hystercailly. Im doing better now on maintianing paranoia. But I still find it hard to trust others, sometimes.
Oh and I forgot to add: So maybe you were just in an angsty time peroid??? My theory is this: When we are teenagers we have an idenity crisis( including me I guess) and we have "angsty" moments so alot of teenagers will mistype themselves as 4s but will confuse their angst with the ennergrams 4's fears and fixations (of course there are E4 teenagers out there but alot of teens will confuse their angst with being E4)

Regarding the indenity crisis, around 18-21 our personality begins to be complete around this time period. Being a teenger is about breaking of our "false persona" but when we come of age (18-21) we develop our own personality. So...

Teenager= Breaking free of false personality
Emerging Adult- Developing our own personality ( it can happen at anytime during these years)
Young Adulthood/Quarter Life Crisis 21- 30- Personality completed and a new idenity crisis based on the new personality ( because the new personality brings new prespectives and disllusioment with false persona mentioned in teenager section)
 

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That's true. My favorite lacuna is my identity. I realized I have always been repeting to myself the things I already knew about me. Just repeating them. Refining them. Going round and round in my own lacuna. Leaving all the other lacunae at bay and obviously feeling stuck. So stuck in my own lacuna.
 

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Oh and I forgot to add: So maybe you were just in an angsty time peroid??? My theory is this: When we are teenagers we have an idenity crisis( including me I guess) and we have "angsty" moments so alot of teenagers will mistype themselves as 4s but will confuse their angst with the ennergrams 4's fears and fixations (of course there are E4 teenagers out there but alot of teens will confuse their angst with being E4)

Regarding the indenity crisis, around 18-21 our personality begins to be complete around this time period. Being a teenger is about breaking of our "false persona" but when we come of age (18-21) we develop our own personality. So...

Teenager= Breaking free of false personality
Emerging Adult- Developing our own personality ( it can happen at anytime during these years)
Young Adulthood/Quarter Life Crisis 21- 30- Personality completed and a new idenity crisis based on the new personality ( because the new personality brings new prespectives and disllusioment with false persona mentioned in teenager section)
Wow! it has been 2 months since I wrote this. I've let myself explain a lot.

Well, this is what I've learned!

First of all, Enneagram is not a psychologic way of understanding, is a spiritual way of (I can't find a word for this, it would be between "awakening" and "noticing").

So, first of all! there is no Enneagram type. Typing is an ilusional identification supported by the other types you think you're not, the pourpouse of the enneagram has always been to expand this 9 points of the mind-spirit as it was conceived by the Sufi culture, which is related to Islam. The intention is to work the 9 types at the same time.


So, there are no types. This means that you probably had "close" your E4 point once and you have opened it now, but it doesn't mean that you cannot have any of the other 8 points closed.

Now, I know what they say about the existence of "wings" but I didn't read more since the beggining and now that I know which types do I have closed and which others are asleep I'm still not interested. So anyone who's interested can look for it but I'm going to explain it other way. I think is just because of being iNtuitive, I understand it other way.

Well, saying this, I will also say that I do not share the concept of meditation that I've read to be the way the Sufi culture deals with the "opening" of the 9 types. Also, and I think this is another matter, I do not share the kind of sentence of Eckhart Tolle that says "You're not your mind". It's true, but what I have learned, is that the concept of missidentification with the thoughts and the "mind silence" stuff is more related to the Zen budism than the ego Tolle mentions. In fact, I had already found the "mind silence" since long ago (In that moment I thought it was related with "stop being an E4" but I didn't want to ask myself much more, just for safe) and despite that the types are still there generating impulses; so, what I want to say is that I've learned that the concept of "mind" doesn't exist. Even if you don't have thoughts, your closed points will still be there generating impulses. And I thought they came out of my mind, but since I'm not going to stop untill finding this all I've learned that is not "your mind" but yourself. They are all just parts of yourself that have been stucked in some moment of your past. I thought the answers would be in the past too, but they are not. They are only in you, and once you realized it you know there is no more "mind", there is no more "nothing". Because since the very beggining it has only been you. So that's why I don't realize meditation either, because talking about "meditation" is like saying the rest of the time you're just not on it. But you are, even if you don't pay attention to it. So, meditation as "I'm going to make an exception to spiritualize before going back to normality" has no sense to me.


So, the conclusion I get is that there are hurt parts of yourself that you've got to let out and they manifestate themselves in the way of Ego. And for what I've seen, in the end, you'll feel compassion for what scared you before.
 

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@EmotionallyTonedGeometry @Trutherseeker

Hello guys! I just wanted to tell you that I know it now! I was releasing my 6 side, and yes, all types can be released! that's all the "holy ideas" they describe in the Enneagram subforum are about! So @TruthSeeker yes, I released my 4 side and maybe you did it too, I know at least another INFP guy in this forum that did it too! And @EmotionallyTonedGeometry I know it now! I did what I feared the most, so now I'm believing in everything! social causes, personal issues... everything! Everything can be done.

All types can be released.
 

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A very relevant post. I, too, have spent many months aimlessly wandering about any number of individual walks of life. As I mature I come to realize that the ideal way to live my life is through a path of ultimate balance, although it is clear to me that I am still far from achieving such as I have spent the majority of my time thinking and researching these personality tests and traits. I do so because I hope that this knowledge will ultimately help me to make myself into a more rounded personality, a goal I relate more to buddhism (as described in the book Siddhartha) than any other faith or religion, which is what i would categorize my system of beliefs as if made to express so. I do long to find that sense of connection with all living things, and seek to understand myself over all other things.
Anyway, a very good post, thank you for sharing your thoughts, and may you be the sturdiest battleship on your sea.
 
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