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I gained the inspiration for this post from the other thread where a lot of people were bashing a middle schooler for caring about grades. Instead of posting it there and inevitably starting a firestorm, I chose to be slightly more productive, generalize it to a degree, and post it as its own thread. That thread caused me to think deeply about the nature of competition and how we as ENTJs tend to involve ourselves in it, so please read it for context before continuing.

http://personalitycafe.com/entj-forum-executives/93258-do-you-entjs-not-like-second-best.html

Firstly, let it be known that it is my prerogative to win at everything I deem important enough to win at. For me, school is one of those things. Therefore, I win at it and I settle for nothing less than complete success.

All of you complaining about "grades being unimportant" and "not worth your effort" should drop the facade and admit that you're not the "tough, competitive" people you so claim to be. One of the things that pisses me off to no end are people that claim "I could do it if I tried." Those who say so are losers, cowards, and fools. I have seen far too many a brilliant person piss his or her incredible potential away for no reason but apathy, and frankly, I'm sick of it. I apologize for the brashness of this post, but the bashing of a middle schooler in that thread REALLY pricked a nerve of mine.

Now, don't get me wrong - I understand the perspective from which most are arguing, as I understand that grades don't have much practical application beyond moving from one level of school to another. However, I would argue that dismissal of grades per their relative lack of obvious pragmatic importance is ignorant and asinine.

Grades, to anyone but the fool, are largely unimportant as a measure of intelligence. Achieving grades often requires regurgitation of information, schmoozing of teachers/professors, and conformity as far as things like writing styles. I understand that such behavior doesn't jive with an "I'm independent and no one can tell me what to do" personality, and that such is the reason you reject the system and dismiss it as unimportant. I'd like to point out to you that despite all of this, grades ARE important as a measure of something else which is just as important as intelligence - work ethic.

At a young age, when I tested as "gifted" or what have you in elementary school, my parents told me something which has stuck with me ever since: "Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard." Perhaps this is only important to me because I am an intensely competitive person, but nonetheless I feel it illustrates my point - work ethic is just as important as natural talent, if not more important. As NTs, you all know that you're intellectually talented. It's no secret. However, I would wager that almost all of you - myself included - have been involved in competitive situations before, and at some point lost to someone who you deem absolutely inferior. It likely baffled you that such an obviously dumber person could have come out on top despite how much better you are than they. So, in some cases, instead of trying to understand why that person succeeded, you dismissed the system as rigged, and "ceased to care" (to save face). The system is not rigged - however, for one reason or another, it seems to prioritize effort over talent. Despite this, we are nonetheless still in the best position to compete because we can match anyone's effort and exceed them with our talent. That being said, the important thing to glean from this is that we need to understand that talent is merely our differentiating factor - our competitive edge.

Ladies and gentlemen, we must all truly understand that intellectual talent is our gift, not our identity. We have a perverse way of disqualifying ourselves from competitive situations despite being the best positioned to succeed in them, for we tend to neglect the importance of hard work and effort as we get caught up in our mind's utopia. Assuming "being talented" as our identity is a dangerous pitfall - we so enjoy being perceived "the best" or "the brightest" in our chosen vocations that we stop growing ourselves, thinking we've reached an eternal plateau of greatness. This plateau is in fact a trap held in place by circular logic that we are all too often inclined to revel in instead of criticize. When we think we no longer have to apply ourselves to succeed, apathy sinks in and our desire to never be perceived incompetent forbids us from building up momentum again - we no longer compete because we feel there is more to lose (our reputation) than to gain (demonstrate the validity of our reputation, which everybody already seems to accept).

Let it also be understood that I am as privy to such criticism as any of the rest of you - while my work ethic and talent have combined to yield success for me in the realms of schoolwork and social life, I am woefully incompetent when it comes to deep, personal relationships for the exact reasons above. I have considered myself "above" participating in that system because I absolutely dread making a blathering fool of myself when first trying to succeed, and I would imagine that many of you behave similarly in other aspects of life.

So, I ask you guilty folk - myself included - to stop being facetious and "above" competing. We're not, we know we're not, and we will never have control of our own personal growth unless we learn to put ourselves outside our comfort zones voluntarily. Cultivation of our own internal motivation will better serve the achievement of our goals - competitive or absolute - than anything else.

Forgive me for invoking Aristotle to cop out of posting a wise closing statement of my own, but I think this sums everything up better than I ever could:

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit."
 

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I gained the inspiration for this post from the other thread where a lot of people were bashing a middle schooler for caring about grades. Instead of posting it there and inevitably starting a firestorm, I chose to be slightly more productive, generalize it to a degree, and post it as its own thread. That thread caused me to think deeply about the nature of competition and how we as ENTJs tend to involve ourselves in it, so please read it for context before continuing.

http://personalitycafe.com/entj-forum-executives/93258-do-you-entjs-not-like-second-best.html

Firstly, let it be known that it is my prerogative to win at everything I deem important enough to win at. For me, school is one of those things. Therefore, I win at it and I settle for nothing less than complete success.

All of you complaining about "grades being unimportant" and "not worth your effort" should drop the facade and admit that you're not the "tough, competitive" people you so claim to be. One of the things that pisses me off to no end are people that claim "I could do it if I tried." Those who say so are losers, cowards, and fools. I have seen far too many a brilliant person piss his or her incredible potential away for no reason but apathy, and frankly, I'm sick of it. I apologize for the brashness of this post, but the bashing of a middle schooler in that thread REALLY pricked a nerve of mine.

Now, don't get me wrong - I understand the perspective from which most are arguing, as I understand that grades don't have much practical application beyond moving from one level of school to another. However, I would argue that dismissal of grades per their relative lack of obvious pragmatic importance is ignorant and asinine.

Grades, to anyone but the fool, are largely unimportant as a measure of intelligence. Achieving grades often requires regurgitation of information, schmoozing of teachers/professors, and conformity as far as things like writing styles. I understand that such behavior doesn't jive with an "I'm independent and no one can tell me what to do" personality, and that such is the reason you reject the system and dismiss it as unimportant. I'd like to point out to you that despite all of this, grades ARE important as a measure of something else which is just as important as intelligence - work ethic.

At a young age, when I tested as "gifted" or what have you in elementary school, my parents told me something which has stuck with me ever since: "Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard." Perhaps this is only important to me because I am an intensely competitive person, but nonetheless I feel it illustrates my point - work ethic is just as important as natural talent, if not more important. As NTs, you all know that you're intellectually talented. It's no secret. However, I would wager that almost all of you - myself included - have been involved in competitive situations before, and at some point lost to someone who you deem absolutely inferior. It likely baffled you that such an obviously dumber person could have come out on top despite how much better you are than they. So, in some cases, instead of trying to understand why that person succeeded, you dismissed the system as rigged, and "ceased to care" (to save face). The system is not rigged - however, for one reason or another, it seems to prioritize effort over talent. Despite this, we are nonetheless still in the best position to compete because we can match anyone's effort and exceed them with our talent. That being said, the important thing to glean from this is that we need to understand that talent is merely our differentiating factor - our competitive edge.

Ladies and gentlemen, we must all truly understand that intellectual talent is our gift, not our identity. We have a perverse way of disqualifying ourselves from competitive situations despite being the best positioned to succeed in them, for we tend to neglect the importance of hard work and effort as we get caught up in our mind's utopia. Assuming "being talented" as our identity is a dangerous pitfall - we so enjoy being perceived "the best" or "the brightest" in our chosen vocations that we stop growing ourselves, thinking we've reached an eternal plateau of greatness. This plateau is in fact a trap held in place by circular logic that we are all too often inclined to revel in instead of criticize. When we think we no longer have to apply ourselves to succeed, apathy sinks in and our desire to never be perceived incompetent forbids us from building up momentum again - we no longer compete because we feel there is more to lose (our reputation) than to gain (demonstrate the validity of our reputation, which everybody already seems to accept).

Let it also be understood that I am as privy to such criticism as any of the rest of you - while my work ethic and talent have combined to yield success for me in the realms of schoolwork and social life, I am woefully incompetent when it comes to deep, personal relationships for the exact reasons above. I have considered myself "above" participating in that system because I absolutely dread making a blathering fool of myself when first trying to succeed, and I would imagine that many of you behave similarly in other aspects of life.

So, I ask you guilty folk - myself included - to stop being facetious and "above" competing. We're not, we know we're not, and we will never have control of our own personal growth unless we learn to put ourselves outside our comfort zones voluntarily. Cultivation of our own internal motivation will better serve the achievement of our goals - competitive or absolute - than anything else.

Forgive me for invoking Aristotle to cop out of posting a wise closing statement of my own, but I think this sums everything up better than I ever could:

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit."
Amen. This attitude of settling for second best, or even third, fourth - or not caring at all is strongly an American trait. "It doesn't even matter", "Everyone is smart in their own way", "Everyone is a winner"...etc.

Everyone is not a winner in the game of life, and there is no politic way around that fact. Live life. Do well. Accept your position if you do not.

I like the more generalized thread anyway. ^.~
 

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I don't really appreciate the tone of this thread, but okay.

Well, I was one of those people who told the OP in that thread not to put stock in things like grades. So I guess that just means that Im one of those people that could do it if I tried.

If posting this comment in the original thread would have started a "firestorm", what did you think would happen once all those ENTJs found this one?

Sure, you can argue that working hard can equal success, and I agree with you, but my point was this:

I've seen people do everything right and then fuck it up in the end, just like I've seen people bounce back from having fucked shit up.

I'd also like to add that people who work hard don't also get rewarded in this country so thinking hard work always equals success is bullshit. Just like there are those people who barely lift a finger and have the connections to get what they want anyway.

There is only one "top" spot in most cases. Just because a person isn't number one doesn't make them worthless. That was the point I was making. The CEO of a company ain't shit without all the people who work beneath him.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
If posting this comment in the original thread would have started a "firestorm", what did you think would happen once all those ENTJs found this one?
I'd rather not derail another person's thread with my personal musings and blathering, and hence I felt that any negativity which would result from me making this post should deservedly be aimed at me. I effectively wanted to minimize collateral damage.

Sure, you can argue that working hard can equal success, and I agree with you, but my point was this:

I've seen people do everything right and then fuck it up in the end, just like I've seen people bounce back from having fucked shit up.
That's just competition itself, mixed with the element of timing. You win some, you lose some. The people who screw up and stop trying are the problem, not those who screw up. I think you've misunderstood the purpose of my post, which was to draw attention to the fact that not competing is wasteful and stupid in the long run, and that we as NTs tend to have a circular logic mechanism we use to avoid confronting this reality.

I'd also like to add that people who work hard don't also get rewarded in this country so thinking hard work always equals success is bullshit. Just like there are those people who barely lift a finger and have the connections to get what they want anyway.
At no point in my post did I state that hard work is the sole reason for success, or that hard work always equals success. Hard work and talent are both aspects of success, and I'd also like to think that luck is another element. Blind hard work will always lose to talent-guided hard work of equal magnitude. The luck of inheriting connections also can play a role in competition. I certainly understand that you are frustrated by those who seem to have "success" but don't deserve it, so perhaps the principle behind this excerpt from the money speech in Atlas Shrugged will help you cope.

"Only the man who does not need it, is fit to inherit wealth - the man who would make his own fortune no matter where he started. If an heir is equal to his money, it serves him; if not, it destroys him. But you look on and you cry that money corrupted him. Did it? Or did he corrupt his money? Do not envy a worthless heir; his wealth is not yours and you would have done no better with it. Do not think that it should have been distributed among you; loading the world with fifty parasites instead of one would not bring back the dead virtue which was the fortune. Money is a living power that dies without its root. Money will not serve that mind that cannot match it. Is this the reason why you call it evil?"

Now, I do agree with your point that those deserving of reward can and do get screwed in this country (especially in recent years, post-bailouts and all), but it's my opinion that such is a problem of government intervention and not an inherent flaw of the system in which government intervenes. However, that's a specific case of competition (ie the current economic environment) and this post was more aimed at the general principles behind NTs' behavior in competitive environments in general.

There is only one "top" spot in most cases. Just because a person isn't number one doesn't make them worthless. That was the point I was making. The CEO of a company ain't shit without all the people who work beneath him.
And the people who work beneath him "ain't shit" unless the CEO competently guides their efforts. So the point is moot. Everyone has their own inherent value to add to the collective stock of humanity, and there's no problem with that. However, from what I can tell, NTs tend to be more involved in the competitive realm, and I wanted to advise other NTs to avoid the pitfalls of logic that often set us back from achieving our goals.
 

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As for dismissing the system as rigged being a faulty conclusion... I have a counterclaim

College admissions


Seriously, nobody understands them
Legacy and race are definitely factors
Candidates with superior performance are rejected all the time, in the name of hollistic selection

But I digress, and disagree
NT is merely a temperament, not some magical quality that blesses you with ability
Sure we tend to be the most educated and best-paid, but that's because we are self-motivated
I honestly think we don't claim we're "above competition" - competition only improves people, as iron sharpens iron...

Being a paragon doesn't stagnate your development either. We recognize life is an upstream battle. You keep going or you get pulled down. Being the best is, at best, a temporary state.

Talent is a gift. It just means that everyone else's problems become easy to you. But that means then, you have the time to consider the hard ones that only you can solve.
 

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You do realize that being an ENTJ doesn't automatically mean you are intellectually "gifted", right? I just wanted to make sure. That's not all I got from your post; it's just that it seemed to read that way to me, and it's a false statement if you meant it that way.

Also, how do grades have anything to do with work ethic?

Furthermore, grades shouldn't be recognized nearly as much as effort. I'm a parent, so I'll use my child as an example...if he gave it his all, and he still failed a test, or got a mediocre grade, I would be proud and I would show it. It would be when he is not putting forth effort that I would start cracking down.

At the end of the day, it's not about the grade he gets...it's about the work, and effort, which you refer to several times in your post. So, what exactly do grades have to do with effort? If you try your hardest, and your hardest= a B+, then why would that be worth any less than the person who tried their hardest and got an A? We all have strengths and weaknesses in different areas; our efforts should be measured, not grades.

Grades are a reality, and you cannot advance with certain grades, so a person does have to take them into consideration. However, I think stressing letter grades over effort is nothing but a confidence crusher for kids.

http://www.betterparenting.com/revi...ades-are-making-children-less-self-motivated/

I didn't comment in the other thread, so my response is not related to that.
 

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"So, I ask you guilty folk - myself included - to stop being facetious and "above" competing. We're not, we know we're not, and we will never have control of our own personal growth unless we learn to put ourselves outside our comfort zones voluntarily. Cultivation of our own internal motivation will better serve the achievement of our goals - competitive or absolute - than anything else."

To me, this sentence is contradictory. You are saying to stop being facetious and above competing because we are not because its our nature to compete. But then you go on and say that if we don't put ourselves out of our comfort zone we will never have control of our personal growth. Maybe some of the people that responded (and I have no idea I cant speak for them) were putting themselves outside of there comfort zones in their replies in an effort to make the op realize that a B really isn't a bad grade and that grades aren't the end all be all.
 
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I understand what upsets you. I agree with the general idea. We can't go calling "sour grapes" because we failed or may fail.
Consider my whole response as targeted to a specific aspect of your post: the part about giftedness. Not all NTs are gifted, not even half. And the sour grapes issue, the lazyness issue, the no effort and etc, are NOT sole characteristics of the gifted.
Also:
- without any desire to bash you, as you know I do like you, I strongly suggest you study the several papers on underachieving geniuses; you will realize it is far deeper than what you perceive at the moment. You, I believe, can really grasp what is going on, as soon as you read 30-50 (hopefully just 10) of such papers or I wouldn't bother suggesting it.
- don't mix average people with truly high iq people. Societies lately tend to categorize into gifted or retarded with no in betweens. Truly gifted are very rare. Underachieving in school can happen irrelevantly of iq.


Firstly, let it be known that it is my prerogative to win at everything I deem important enough to win at. For me, school is one of those things.
For "you"; exactly. What is wrong with other people not caring about academics? Even if they have the means and/or the iq for them?

All of you complaining about "grades being unimportant" and "not worth your effort" should drop the facade and admit that you're not the "tough, competitive" people you so claim to be.
Wrong. Either they are incapable academically OR, they don't deem it important; usually the first but the later also exists.

Being competitive doesn't mean you have to compete 24/7 in all aspects of life. If it did, entj's would punch people in the face to go to the loo "first", they would stab people at dinners so we eat first and so on. We pick what we deem worthy to compete in. Like everybody else irrelevantly of type.

One of the things that pisses me off to no end are people that claim "I could do it if I tried." Those who say so are losers, cowards, and fools.
I agree. "If"s are hardly proofs of competence and it bugs me too when people over 18 years old say it.

I have seen far too many a brilliant person piss his or her incredible potential away for no reason but apathy, and frankly, I'm sick of it.
There are reasons. Eventually you will be acquainted with them. I am talking here specifically about high intellect people that underachieve. A very specific category.
There are reasons.

Grades, to anyone but the fool, are largely unimportant as a measure of intelligence. Achieving grades often requires regurgitation of information, schmoozing of teachers/professors, and conformity as far as things like writing styles. I understand that such behavior doesn't jive with an "I'm independent and no one can tell me what to do" personality, and that such is the reason you reject the system and dismiss it as unimportant.
Part of the reasons, yes.

I'd like to point out to you that despite all of this, grades ARE important as a measure of something else which is just as important as intelligence - work ethic.
So, "schmoozing" is ethical?
I think you want to communicate that achieving at school, is training so to achieve later at work or generally social "struggles"? And therefore should not be discarded but students would emphasize on everything pertains to top grades (including brown tongues)?
Practical. Hardly ethical (in the definition of the word).

At a young age, when I tested as "gifted" or what have you in elementary school, my parents told me something which has stuck with me ever since: "Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard."
Smart parents. I assume they didn't just say that but actually demonstrated it. Children, especially gifted ones, see through bs and empty words.

Here is a contrasting real life example:
Gifted (very gifted) but lazy student, classmate of mine. Its parents caring and loving but not academically practical. Every quarter, they went to pick grades, having first scolded the student thoroughly that he'd be beaten up in public if his grades were under the top 1%.
They never beat the child. But also, for the rest of the school days they applied zero effort in making the student study, work for school or get him extra school materials. They applied a LOT of pressure in him doing work and chores irrelevant to studying.
ALL their presence knowledge wise was those dreaded days (3 every year) where they abused him about the potential public ridicule. But he knew it would be just 3 days and he didn't study. He continued to get grades sky high with no effort and he finished HS.
He was the one I always turned to if I had a question when encountered with a new mathematical theory.
He never managed to get into university, he became a plumber.

Do you see the difference? His parents had tons of "success is 99% perspiration" and similar bullcrap quotes. Their actions though spoke more.
The fault is not always with the gifted child that will turn to an underachieving adult.

As NTs, you all know that you're intellectually talented. It's no secret.
Bs, NTs have the same amount of stupids/underintellects like any other XXs.

However, I would wager that almost all of you - myself included - have been involved in competitive situations before, and at some point lost to someone who you deem absolutely inferior. It likely baffled you that such an obviously dumber person could have come out on top despite how much better you are than they. So, in some cases, instead of trying to understand why that person succeeded, you dismissed the system as rigged, and "ceased to care" (to save face). The system is not rigged - however, for one reason or another, it seems to prioritize effort over talent.
Sorry, that does happen but to under-gifted/average intellects only. Calling sour grapes mentality is NOT a high intellect's style.
An underperforming gifted will blame themselves. They will avoid competition if they fear a loss just like any average mind BUT the first and detrimental blame will be given to ourselves. Sure there will be a lot of excuses given to other people (to avoid ofc the nagging) but when we are alone, we blame nobody else but ourselves.
When we lose, WE lose. Nobody else makes us lose.
And the system is rigged. There is a discrepancy between the idealized view of the educational system that is brainwashed to children and the actual factual reality.


Ladies and gentlemen, we must all truly understand that intellectual talent is our gift, not our identity.
Beautiful quote and I agree.

We have a perverse way of disqualifying ourselves from competitive situations despite being the best positioned to succeed in them, for we tend to neglect the importance of hard work and effort as we get caught up in our mind's utopia.
True but it is not our own "mind's utopia". Extraordinarily gifted children are still children and how their parents and rest educational adults handle them is of paramount importance. Patience, determination and concentration to hard work that is a chore, are things taught school wise.
Either the parents exemplify that (NOT merely say smart ass quotes), or the children will lose years of their life until they learn (IF they ever learn) how to apply said effort themselves.

I have considered myself "above" participating in that system because I absolutely dread making a blathering fool of myself when first trying to succeed, and I would imagine that many of you behave similarly in other aspects of life.
Many have done this, including myself. It is absolutely irrelevant to intellectual ability. Not every lazy mind is a genius. Not every lazy student a gifted one.
Some are just lazy (which I believe is mostly the parent's work).
Or just average intellects.
Don't mix apples and oranges because they are both fruits.
An important difference is, the highly gifted children will be far more sensitive about it because their whole value and 3rd party acceptance (parents, society), depends on it.
Otherwise, I do not see why we (and how is that ethical) should push everyone to succeed academically even if they are not inclined personally or are not equipped for it.

I think your whole post was an urge people stop bsing about how they "can do it IF". To that I do agree whole-heartedly and have written similar posts myself. But please, mind the distinctions.

Btw, a mere degree from a college is hardly academic prowess. :dry:
 

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Chatterbox, MOTM August 2013
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I gained the inspiration for this post from the other thread where a lot of people were bashing a middle schooler for caring about grades. Instead of posting it there and inevitably starting a firestorm, I chose to be slightly more productive, generalize it to a degree, and post it as its own thread. That thread caused me to think deeply about the nature of competition and how we as ENTJs tend to involve ourselves in it, so please read it for context before continuing.

http://personalitycafe.com/entj-forum-executives/93258-do-you-entjs-not-like-second-best.html

Firstly, let it be known that it is my prerogative to win at everything I deem important enough to win at. For me, school is one of those things. Therefore, I win at it and I settle for nothing less than complete success.

All of you complaining about "grades being unimportant" and "not worth your effort" should drop the facade and admit that you're not the "tough, competitive" people you so claim to be. One of the things that pisses me off to no end are people that claim "I could do it if I tried." Those who say so are losers, cowards, and fools. I have seen far too many a brilliant person piss his or her incredible potential away for no reason but apathy, and frankly, I'm sick of it. I apologize for the brashness of this post, but the bashing of a middle schooler in that thread REALLY pricked a nerve of mine.

Now, don't get me wrong - I understand the perspective from which most are arguing, as I understand that grades don't have much practical application beyond moving from one level of school to another. However, I would argue that dismissal of grades per their relative lack of obvious pragmatic importance is ignorant and asinine.

Grades, to anyone but the fool, are largely unimportant as a measure of intelligence. Achieving grades often requires regurgitation of information, schmoozing of teachers/professors, and conformity as far as things like writing styles. I understand that such behavior doesn't jive with an "I'm independent and no one can tell me what to do" personality, and that such is the reason you reject the system and dismiss it as unimportant. I'd like to point out to you that despite all of this, grades ARE important as a measure of something else which is just as important as intelligence - work ethic.

At a young age, when I tested as "gifted" or what have you in elementary school, my parents told me something which has stuck with me ever since: "Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard." Perhaps this is only important to me because I am an intensely competitive person, but nonetheless I feel it illustrates my point - work ethic is just as important as natural talent, if not more important. As NTs, you all know that you're intellectually talented. It's no secret. However, I would wager that almost all of you - myself included - have been involved in competitive situations before, and at some point lost to someone who you deem absolutely inferior. It likely baffled you that such an obviously dumber person could have come out on top despite how much better you are than they. So, in some cases, instead of trying to understand why that person succeeded, you dismissed the system as rigged, and "ceased to care" (to save face). The system is not rigged - however, for one reason or another, it seems to prioritize effort over talent. Despite this, we are nonetheless still in the best position to compete because we can match anyone's effort and exceed them with our talent. That being said, the important thing to glean from this is that we need to understand that talent is merely our differentiating factor - our competitive edge.

Ladies and gentlemen, we must all truly understand that intellectual talent is our gift, not our identity. We have a perverse way of disqualifying ourselves from competitive situations despite being the best positioned to succeed in them, for we tend to neglect the importance of hard work and effort as we get caught up in our mind's utopia. Assuming "being talented" as our identity is a dangerous pitfall - we so enjoy being perceived "the best" or "the brightest" in our chosen vocations that we stop growing ourselves, thinking we've reached an eternal plateau of greatness. This plateau is in fact a trap held in place by circular logic that we are all too often inclined to revel in instead of criticize. When we think we no longer have to apply ourselves to succeed, apathy sinks in and our desire to never be perceived incompetent forbids us from building up momentum again - we no longer compete because we feel there is more to lose (our reputation) than to gain (demonstrate the validity of our reputation, which everybody already seems to accept).

Let it also be understood that I am as privy to such criticism as any of the rest of you - while my work ethic and talent have combined to yield success for me in the realms of schoolwork and social life, I am woefully incompetent when it comes to deep, personal relationships for the exact reasons above. I have considered myself "above" participating in that system because I absolutely dread making a blathering fool of myself when first trying to succeed, and I would imagine that many of you behave similarly in other aspects of life.

So, I ask you guilty folk - myself included - to stop being facetious and "above" competing. We're not, we know we're not, and we will never have control of our own personal growth unless we learn to put ourselves outside our comfort zones voluntarily. Cultivation of our own internal motivation will better serve the achievement of our goals - competitive or absolute - than anything else.

Forgive me for invoking Aristotle to cop out of posting a wise closing statement of my own, but I think this sums everything up better than I ever could:

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit."
Nice rant. What's your point?
 

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.... I don't care to invest the time or energy responding to them.
How...disdainful.
But not superior.

Nice rant. What's your point?
He typed his point. Word for word. =.=


@Debo37 I understand what you tried to urge for, I stand by what I wrote earlier (though if you disagree do not be intimidated from posting and correct the parts I was erroneous).
I find it similar to IQ test discussions where one can tell who never had or never scored high by the excessive way they discard their validity.
Btw, this is the first time I see you coming strongly enough in a post. :)))
 

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Life is full of questions, isn't it? :dry:
Not really.... But, check this out..... I purposely do not comment on any of your posts and avoid you. Please return the favor. I don't know what your type is but in my opinion it's definitely not Te. I'm not surprised you would defined the OP since it seems to me you love to embellish in generalizations yourself.

Best thing for both of us is to not directly address each other. Trust me on that one.
 

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Not really.... But, check this out..... I purposely do not comment on any of your posts and avoid you. Please return the favor. I don't know what your type is but in my opinion it's definitely not Te. I'm not surprised you would defined the OP since it seems to me you love to embellish in generalizations yourself.

Best thing for both of us is to not directly address each other. Trust me on that one.
I purposely did the same.
However I am noticing months now, people driven away from this forum, posters intimidated to silence and so on.
I have no interest in what you have to say whatsoever but, I have great interest in stopping the bullying.

As usual, give your orders to your mirror; it may oblige. Whenever you post here, if I find it suitable to reply or correct, I will. Comprehend this is a public forum.
 

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Oh my giddy Aunt..... what is happening to this forum?

Every time I stop by it seems worse than the last time.
 
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