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Trying to read my mind. Seriously, just ask.
 
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I have a friend (estp) who claims no fear is rationel :) And as a feeler, I feel every feeling is legit as you feel it. I also think our reptile brain has some strong survival skills so fear of heights I don't see as such an irritinal fear since our brain is just trying to make sure that we survive, but I'm digressing :)
Pretty spot on, so maybe my "hate" is more towards the denial you can have about something towards yourself. So not that he doesn't do anything about it but more that he doesn't realise that he has to do something about it. Very good Hexigoon :) Wanna be my new sparrings partner since you seem to have a talent for this ;)

Oh that good then, I wouldn't worry :)

Me too :)

Rather a struggle then the "is it in yet" :p Good thing you comforted her, sex can be really tough with all the expectations and feelings and so on :)

I don't have a penis, so I can't really say about condoms... I just know they have be tight enough so they don't slide off while using them, but there is a grey area there between too tight and tight but comfortable. Maybe practice would help with this? Maybe start masturbating with them on to get used to the feeling? And try and associate them with something sexy instead of this weird piece of rubber which it can feel like for us as well. I found some with a smell that gives me good associations. Just a tip if you want :)
Lol I'm sure he feels that way as an ESTP, though I would agree with you on that. I don't think all fear is irrational. If someone started attacking you, it wouldn't be irrational to feel fear, right? It's as you say, it has a purpose for keeping you alive.
Certainly! It's possible... although I don't have his mind so I couldn't say what he's thinking exactly. But I do understand your "hate" all the same. Or, maybe frustration would be a better word.
Ohh? You like the whole sparring with me? Aha, then I'm always happy to find willing partners, I like the practice and interesting perspectives. And you do seem quite the formidable opponent for me too, Lovable. :sneaky:

Oh nice!
Yeah, it was pretty tricky.... even with a bunch of lubricant. We were both virgins though, so I kinda assumed that her body needed time to get accustomed to me trying to insert a foreign object - I actually brought her a vibrator so she could practice and get used to the feeling for when we'd meet up eventually. I was pretty scared of accidentally hurting her...
Yes, I'm sure it's just as much pressure for a woman, probably more so really.
It felt bad when she got all quiet and sad about it. She didn't say it but I knew she was blaming herself, so I figured it was best to just give it a break for a while and chill out on the bed with her. It did eventually work out.


Haha, don't worry, you're not missing out on much. It is true that it needs to have some tightness but it felt like I was suffocating it to death. They might've been more expensive but the right ones did help a lot.
:whistle: Ohh, I have tried to masturbate with condoms before, it is a pretty strange feeling. But yeah, in the end, I think you're right. Practice helps ultimately. Mm, you mean like those flavored ones? Those ones can have a certain aroma to them. If there are purely scented ones maybe I should've tried to find some of those.
Well thank you for the advice! You're too kind. :p
 

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Lol I'm sure he feels that way as an ESTP, though I would agree with you on that. I don't think all fear is irrational. If someone started attacking you, it wouldn't be irrational to feel fear, right? It's as you say, it has a purpose for keeping you alive.
Certainly! It's possible... although I don't have his mind so I couldn't say what he's thinking exactly. But I do understand your "hate" all the same. Or, maybe frustration would be a better word.
Ohh? You like the whole sparring with me? Aha, then I'm always happy to find willing partners, I like the practice and interesting perspectives. And you do seem quite the formidable opponent for me too, Lovable. :sneaky:
Yeah, he can be a challenge sometimes, but still my best friend :) Oh I love when people agree with me, it is just so much easier :D Thank you. Frustration would indeed be a better word, but the game is not called: "one thing you are frustrated about in a partner" and we must either follow the rules of the game or quit playing.. or something like that :s
I think sparring is a great tool to discover more things about myself, and it is always nice to do it with people you feel kindness towards. And a compliment, oh thank you, now you make me blush. Anytime, we could even set up a sunday discussion on random topics.

Oh nice!
Yeah, it was pretty tricky.... even with a bunch of lubricant. We were both virgins though, so I kinda assumed that her body needed time to get accustomed to me trying to insert a foreign object - I actually brought her a vibrator so she could practice and get used to the feeling for when we'd meet up eventually. I was pretty scared of accidentally hurting her...
Yes, I'm sure it's just as much pressure for a woman, probably more so really.
It felt bad when she got all quiet and sad about it. She didn't say it but I knew she was blaming herself, so I figured it was best to just give it a break for a while and chill out on the bed with her. It did eventually work out.
Lube is the way to go, unless you get her to wild up then it won't be needed. Oh yeah, I was gonna ask about that, because like you say yourself, getting used to a foreign object takes times. Oh good thinking on your behalf. We can be extremly tight downthere the first couples of times, and some girls get so tense about it, that they tighten the muscles downthere which only makes it harder. Thinking about her, good to see that chivalry isn't dead yet :)
I think the pressure is the same for both genders but maybe we think about the womans as being more important or something, which I think is a shame.
Again, thinking of her feelings, chivalry lives! :D And yes, patience usually pans out.

Haha, don't worry, you're not missing out on much. It is true that it needs to have some tightness but it felt like I was suffocating it to death. They might've been more expensive but the right ones did help a lot.
:whistle: Ohh, I have tried to masturbate with condoms before, it is a pretty strange feeling. But yeah, in the end, I think you're right. Practice helps ultimately. Mm, you mean like those flavored ones? Those ones can have a certain aroma to them. If there are purely scented ones maybe I should've tried to find some of those.
Well thank you for the advice! You're too kind. :p
Thanks, but I have no penis envy or maybe a little, stand up peeing do sound nice.
They are not flavored but they do have a smell that reminds me of.. Caramel? IDK, it takes the top off the whole icky condom thing.
Thank you too, I love to help people and give them advice if I can, so if you found it useful then I'm very happy. :)
 

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Yeah, he can be a challenge sometimes, but still my best friend :) Oh I love when people agree with me, it is just so much easier :D Thank you. Frustration would indeed be a better word, but the game is not called: "one thing you are frustrated about in a partner" and we must either follow the rules of the game or quit playing.. or something like that :s
I think sparring is a great tool to discover more things about myself, and it is always nice to do it with people you feel kindness towards. And a compliment, oh thank you, now you make me blush. Anytime, we could even set up a sunday discussion on random topics.
Oh do you guys have like a friends with benefits thing going on, or is it more that you view your partner like a best friend? I always view a romantic partner like my best buddy.
Ah well I'll try not to agree too much! :D Mmm, that is true though.... I guess if there is something I've "hated" before in a partner (other than disloyalty which is probably universally hated) it's when I would tell them I love them and they just didn't seem to care.
I also hate when they'd keep a secret they don't like about me in order to later use it against me in an argument to make me feel guilty. I wish they would've just been upfront with me earlier if something I was doing was upsetting them, it succeeds in making me feel like an asshole.

Of course! Any time indeed, I do love to get to talk with my fellow INFJs.

Lube is the way to go, unless you get her to wild up then it won't be needed. Oh yeah, I was gonna ask about that, because like you say yourself, getting used to a foreign object takes times. Oh good thinking on your behalf. We can be extremly tight downthere the first couples of times, and some girls get so tense about it, that they tighten the muscles downthere which only makes it harder. Thinking about her, good to see that chivalry isn't dead yet :)
I think the pressure is the same for both genders but maybe we think about the womans as being more important or something, which I think is a shame.
Again, thinking of her feelings, chivalry lives! :D And yes, patience usually pans out.
Yes, that was the problem. Just too tight to get inside, and I think she was quite tense so I'm sure that contributed to it.
^^ Thank you! I don't know if it makes me chivalrous, I was just taught to treat other people how I'd want to be treated and that always made sense so I try to keep to it. I wouldn't want to be pressured to take a dick if it was uncomfortable. And I felt her emotional state too strongly to ignore it. It's hard to feel turned on when you see your partner struggling... but it sounds like you know about that from the phimosis situation.
Yeah, but I also think women have an understandable fear of possibly getting pregnant that guys don't really have. I'd probably be extra selective with partners if I worried about that to the same extent. (I guess it's less of a problem these days however).

Thanks, but I have no penis envy or maybe a little, stand up peeing do sound nice.
They are not flavored but they do have a smell that reminds me of.. Caramel? IDK, it takes the top off the whole icky condom thing.
Thank you too, I love to help people and give them advice if I can, so if you found it useful then I'm very happy. :)
Lol well, I actually heard once it wasn't good for you to stand up while peeing so I began to limit that.
Wow, I do like caramel so that's a bonus... Aw darn it, I'll need to go searching for those next time if ever! :p
I sure did, and same here! :)
 

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Oh do you guys have like a friends with benefits thing going on, or is it more that you view your partner like a best friend? I always view a romantic partner like that.
Ah well I'll try not to agree too much! :D Mmm, that is true though.... I guess if there is something I've "hated" before in a partner (other than disloyalty which is probably universally hated) it's when I would tell them I love them and they just didn't seem to care.
I also hate when they'd keep a secret they don't like about me in order to later use it against me in an argument to make me feel guilty. I wish they would've just been upfront with me earlier if something I was doing was upsetting them, it succeeds in making me feel like an asshole.

Of course! Any time indeed, I do love to get to talk with my fellow INFJs.
Wait, what? Oh no no no no... He is my best friend, the estp with big thick line under friend, we have never and will never have sex. Oh God no.. Yikes. Where did that come from? No, no the ESTP friend of my is just a friend. The one with the foreskin is a INFP dude I dated for almost 3 months now, and recently ended it with ( not because of the foreskin) but because he was an Asshole..

Back to the ESTP, we have been friends for over 7 years and is one of my easiest friendships, he is like a half brother, my whole family has practically adopted him. I suspect them all of being ESXX so figures that he fits right in there... Whenever I have boyfriend/girlfriend that is my SO then I wouldn't say they become my best friend but something higher, which I don't know how to explain..
Agree all you want, it makes me feel smart and sassy ;)
I agree that disloyalty probably is universally hated, or cheating, I haven't ever heard anyone being kean on that, unless it is some sort of deal between the partners, but then it happens knowingly and then I don't think it counts as cheating.
That makes sense, and it is cruel to do something like that :/

Well don't slap a sticker on me just yet, I my INTX friend still questions my INFJ, I feel so borderline sometimes trying to be "sure" of my type. I do feel at home in the INFJ but I also feel sort of false advertising when I say I'm not a 100% sure. Will you allow me the doubt? Will you still wanna talk to a fellow IXFJ? :p

Yes, that was the problem. Just too tight to get inside, and I think she was quite tense so I'm sure that contributed to it.
^^ Thank you! I don't know if it makes me chivalrous, I was just taught to treat other people how I'd want to be treated and that always made sense so I try to keep to it. I wouldn't want to be pressured to take a dick if it was uncomfortable. And I felt her emotional state too strongly to ignore it. It's hard to feel turned on when you see your partner struggling... but it sounds like you know about that from the phimosis situation.
Yeah, but I also think women have an understandable fear of possibly getting pregnant that guys don't really have. I'd probably be extra selective with partners if I worried about that to the same extent. (I guess it's less of a problem these days however).
Yeah, some girls have big problems with getting anything in there, poor thing. Hope she is doing better now, which I guess you may not know depending on whether you still talk.
That is pure chivalry :) Believe me, there are guys who will put their needs first and who wouldn't even think twice about the other persons feelings. Makes me so angry.
We never got pass the touching fase before I realized it was dead from before it even started, but he did seem to have big penis issues. But yes, I have tried being the one in pain and also inflicting it (unwillingly and not as part of anything kinky)
Oh yes that is the biggest mood killer ever! I have had a few times when I wasn't sure, but as luck would have it, nothing happen - thank you birthcontrol! I know a girl, she can't even have sex with her boyfriend because she is so scared of getting pregnant, it takes the fun out of it for sure. But you guys can have it too... The INFP guy I just dated he was afraid that I was gonna steal his sperm and get pregnant with it and he would end up not having a say in it. I felt SO WEIRD to be accused of that? Like I want this random guys baby? I mean his genetic genepool wasn't even that great. And I don't see the point of having a baby that the dad is not interested in? I mean this poor baby having his dad being reluctant against it from the start? Why are some people so cruel? Another reason for stop dating him, accusing me of being a sperm stealing crazy bitch, no thank you! Which is kind of funny now that I think about it, because he did try and pressure me into having sex with him.. Hmm, a real gem I found there. Good he is gone.

Lol well, I actually heard once it wasn't good for you to stand up while peeing so I began to limit that.
Wow, I do like caramel so that's a bonus... Aw darn it, I'll need to go searching for those next time if ever! :p
I sure did, and same here! :)
Haha omg laughing at this, thanks :D
I think maybe it is a Danish brand, IDK.. But go search and you shall find ;)
 

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Trying to read my mind. Seriously, just ask.
I dearly LOVE it when they try to read my mind. But I detest with a passion barely bridled the woundedness that happens from their side when they guess WRONG and I tell them so.

If you are trying to read my mind, BE COMFORTABLE BOTH WITH YOUR FAILURE AND MY TELLING YOU YOU FAILED, because only getting it right is right (all the way).
 
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Wait, what? Oh no no no no... He is my best friend, the estp with big thick line under friend, we have never and will never have sex. Oh God no.. Yikes. Where did that come from? No, no the ESTP friend of my is just a friend. The one with the foreskin is a INFP dude I dated for almost 3 months now, and recently ended it with ( not because of the foreskin) but because he was an Asshole..

Back to the ESTP, we have been friends for over 7 years and is one of my easiest friendships, he is like a half brother, my whole family has practically adopted him. I suspect them all of being ESXX so figures that he fits right in there... Whenever I have boyfriend/girlfriend that is my SO then I wouldn't say they become my best friend but something higher, which I don't know how to explain..
Agree all you want, it makes me feel smart and sassy ;)
I agree that disloyalty probably is universally hated, or cheating, I haven't ever heard anyone being kean on that, unless it is some sort of deal between the partners, but then it happens knowingly and then I don't think it counts as cheating.
That makes sense, and it is cruel to do something like that :/

Well don't slap a sticker on me just yet, I my INTX friend still questions my INFJ, I feel so borderline sometimes trying to be "sure" of my type. I do feel at home in the INFJ but I also feel sort of false advertising when I say I'm not a 100% sure. Will you allow me the doubt? Will you still wanna talk to a fellow IXFJ? :p

Oh no! I'm really sorry for mistaking things! I hope I didn't give you any unpleasant visuals. Haha I thought you were talking about the phimosis sufferer. I see though!
My childhood best friend is an ESTP too, so I do know how that feels, it is one of the easiest friendships, surprisingly.
It feels like an odd couple sort of friendship if you are an INFJ, but it somehow works well.

Something higher? Like soul mates?
You like to feel a little sassy, hey? Aw then, I guess I can oblige you within reasonable limits. :unsure:
Yep, if it's an open relationship or something then that's at least agreed upon. No problem with that, but going behind their back is just a big no-no.

Ahh I apologize if I mistyped you at all. I was just pretty sure I saw you typed as one and seen you around the INFJ forums a bunch, but if you were another type then that's perfectly fine too! Of course I'll still talk with you. :)
There's no problem with having doubt about it either.


Yeah, some girls have big problems with getting anything in there, poor thing. Hope she is doing better now, which I guess you may not know depending on whether you still talk.
That is pure chivalry :) Believe me, there are guys who will put their needs first and who wouldn't even think twice about the other persons feelings. Makes me so angry.
We never got pass the touching fase before I realized it was dead from before it even started, but he did seem to have big penis issues. But yes, I have tried being the one in pain and also inflicting it (unwillingly and not as part of anything kinky)
Oh yes that is the biggest mood killer ever! I have had a few times when I wasn't sure, but as luck would have it, nothing happen - thank you birthcontrol! I know a girl, she can't even have sex with her boyfriend because she is so scared of getting pregnant, it takes the fun out of it for sure. But you guys can have it too... The INFP guy I just dated he was afraid that I was gonna steal his sperm and get pregnant with it and he would end up not having a say in it. I felt SO WEIRD to be accused of that? Like I want this random guys baby? I mean his genetic genepool wasn't even that great. And I don't see the point of having a baby that the dad is not interested in? I mean this poor baby having his dad being reluctant against it from the start? Why are some people so cruel? Another reason for stop dating him, accusing me of being a sperm stealing crazy bitch, no thank you! Which is kind of funny now that I think about it, because he did try and pressure me into having sex with him.. Hmm, a real gem I found there. Good he is gone.
I hope so too! I do sometimes check to see if she's doing okay but we're not together anymore. I do hope she finds someone who can make her happy like I wanted to. And at least she has that cool vibrator now which I thought was pretty awesome. It had a bunch of settings and it felt nice and well crafted, I kinda wanted to keep it. lol

Really though? That's awful! It seems like he had some issues going on there... I wonder why that was...
I mean, yeah, it's true. I would worry getting a girl pregnant on accident... I have been in a relationship which ended with them giving me the ultimatum to: "have children with me within the next number of years or we'll have to break up" and I just couldn't accept that because I don't want to bring my own children into the world if I can't make sure they'll be provided for properly. I'm in no position to do that, nor was she.

It seems that it was simply for the best that you broke up really. You certainly shouldn't let people treat you like that.

Haha omg laughing at this, thanks :D
I think maybe it is a Danish brand, IDK.. But go search and you shall find ;)
:p No problem! I'm glad I still have the ability to make others laugh.
Oh Danish? Ha, that would narrow it down a bit in that case. I'd just hope they make them in my size.
If sexy time can't smell like caramel then what is even the point?
 

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@Lovable @Hexigoon

ESTPs are INFJs' dual in socionics, and they are supposed to be the best match for INFJ whether it's friendship or even marriage, and this is why you guys felt an easy connection with ESTPs. The ESTP helps to protect your vulnerable areas while appreciating your good points, and they love you exactly as who you are without trying to change you, and this is also why ESTPs and INFJs tend to get along quite well, whether it's friendship or romantic wise. Btw, how did you guys meet your ESTP best friends? Did you meet them at school, or at the workplace, or at the bar, or where?
I'd like to meet more ESTPs in my life, and I wonder where I can find them, haha.

More about Duality: Socionics Intertype Relationships: Dual
 

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Oh no! I'm really sorry for mistaking things! I hope I didn't give you any unpleasant visuals. Haha I thought you were talking about the phimosis sufferer. I see though!
My childhood best friend is an ESTP too, so I do know how that feels, it is one of the easiest friendships, surprisingly.
It feels like an odd couple sort of friendship if you are an INFJ, but it somehow works well.

Something higher? Like soul mates?
You like to feel a little sassy, hey? Aw then, I guess I can oblige you within reasonable limits. :unsure:
Yep, if it's an open relationship or something then that's at least agreed upon. No problem with that, but going behind their back is just a big no-no.

Ahh I apologize if I mistyped you at all. I was just pretty sure I saw you typed as one and seen you around the INFJ forums a bunch, but if you were another type then that's perfectly fine too! Of course I'll still talk with you. :)
There's no problem with having doubt about it either.
It is okay, no harm done :) He is a nice enough guy, but yeah more like a brother than someone I would want to see naked.
I'm glad you have one too, they are precious :) Would you ever consider dating yours?

I don't think all my former boyfriends have been soul mates, maybe only 1 but in a fucked up spiderman/venom sort of way :s But with all of them I have felt that special bonding, that for me is part of that love feeling.
Only within reasonable limits? What if I want to draw outside the lines? :p
Yeah, dishonesty and cheating is a big no-go, agreed.

I don't know if you mistyped me? Maybe I just don't feel special enough to be an INFJ, I feel as it is made hard to "live up to" if that makes sense?
Thanks, I appreciate that.

I hope so too! I do sometimes check to see if she's doing okay but we're not together anymore. I do hope she finds someone who can make her happy like I wanted to. And at least she has that cool vibrator now which I thought was pretty awesome. It had a bunch of settings and it felt nice and well crafted, I kinda wanted to keep it. lol

Really though? That's awful! It seems like he had some issues going on there... I wonder why that was...
I mean, yeah, it's true. I would worry getting a girl pregnant on accident... I have been in a relationship which ended with them giving me the ultimatum to: "have children with me within the next number of years or we'll have to break up" and I just couldn't accept that because I don't want to bring my own children into the world if I can't make sure they'll be provided for properly.
Haha, maybe it is time you bought one for yourself? :p

Oh that is a very harsh way to have the conversation about where the relationship is going.

I don't want to bring my own children into the world if I can't make sure they'll be provided for properly
I FEEL EXACTLY THE SAME WAY, is that a INFJ-thing? I want something to offer this little thing, and I want a find a partner that I feel can be a good fit as a father and partner in (not crime but) raising and being there. Which is also why I feel very angry towards people who gives up on their kids and leaves them, but I'm getting of topic again.

I'm in no position to do that, nor was she.

It seems that it was simply for the best that you broke up really. You certainly shouldn't let people treat you like that.

:p No problem! I'm glad I still have the ability to make others laugh.
Oh Danish? Ha, that would narrow it down a bit in that case. I'd just hope they make them in my size.
If sexy time can't smell like caramel then what is even the point?
Then it sound like the right decision was made, but you know that better yourself :)

Yeah, I think he was really a jerk, so no I shouldn't and I won't.

Yeah, we are the great country with pastries ;) And caramel smelling condoms, haha :D
I know, right?

ESTPs are INFJs' dual in socionics, and they are supposed to be the best match for INFJ whether it's friendship or even marriage, and this is why you guys felt an easy connection with ESTPs. The ESTP helps to protect your vulnerable areas while appreciating your good points, and they love you exactly as who you are without trying to change you, and this is also why ESTPs and INFJs tend to get along quite well, whether it's friendship or romantic wise. Btw, how did you guys meet your ESTP best friends? Did you meet them at school, or at the workplace, or at the bar, or where?
I'd like to meet more ESTPs in my life, and I wonder where I can find them, haha.
I knew that :) Which is also one of the reasons I do think I might be a INFJ, but then again, I never met anyone who didn't like him, which to this day still makes me study him a bit. I think this might be the answer to your statement about the odd couple, @Hexigoon it is like @Schizoid says, we do share the same functions, but they are kind of backwards version of us. They have SETIFENI and we have NIFETISE. I do really feel that I can be myself around him, with no expectations which is so nice. But I also feel his (I don't know) S-side? maybe? I mean we can have nice deep talks, it seems like it doesn't come that easy for him, but he tries for me. And also it seems like he can't sit still for long, something has to happen, we have to do something, go somewhere. I don't know how to describe it, like a restlessness. I treasure him dearly, but after a few hours doing "something" I need to do nothing, and I think that would clash in a relationship between us.
I met mine at school studying coding.I don't know where people would go about finding them? :s I met one on tinder, but I doubt that he is ESTP, he gives me a totally different vibe, but maybe that is just me being silly :)
 

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I knew that :) Which is also one of the reasons I do think I might be a INFJ, but then again, I never met anyone who didn't like him, which to this day still makes me study him a bit. I think this might be the answer to your statement about the odd couple, @Hexigoon it is like @Schizoid says, we do share the same functions, but they are kind of backwards version of us. They have SETIFENI and we have NIFETISE. I do really feel that I can be myself around him, with no expectations which is so nice. But I also feel his (I don't know) S-side? maybe? I mean we can have nice deep talks, it seems like it doesn't come that easy for him, but he tries for me. And also it seems like he can't sit still for long, something has to happen, we have to do something, go somewhere. I don't know how to describe it, like a restlessness. I treasure him dearly, but after a few hours doing "something" I need to do nothing, and I think that would clash in a relationship between us.
I met mine at school studying coding.I don't know where people would go about finding them? :s I met one on tinder, but I doubt that he is ESTP, he gives me a totally different vibe, but maybe that is just me being silly :)
Oh, I can definitely see you as an INFJ, and Ni subtype of INFJ to be even more precise. I saw quite a few of your posts around the forum, and there's no other mbti type that fits you more than INFJ.

And from what I've observed, ESTPs tend to appear quite popular and have many acquaintances, but true friends are pretty rare for them. In fact, ESTPs tend to have a hard time distinguishing who is their acquaintances and who is their true friend, and they sometimes have this habit of mistaking their casual acquaintances as true friends.

As a result, ESTPs ended up trusting the wrong people and they sometimes get burned by people whom they regard as friends, and this gives them lots of trust issues toward people. And we INFJs are the only ones who can help them break down their walls and help them to trust people again. And INFJs are also able to read people well and able to pre-warn the ESTPs of people who have bad intentions toward them. ESTPs are also prone to impulsiveness, and INFJs are able to foresee the consequences of every actions, and this is exactly what ESTP needed, they needed someone who is able to foresee the consequences of every action and prevent them from making any rash decisions that would land them in huge trouble.
ESTPs are also bad at knowing when is the exact timing to take actions, and this is where INFJs are able to help them.
Donald Trump is an ESTP for example, and his inferior Ni often causes him to take actions at the wrong timing, U.S. has an explosion of coronavirus cases, because he lockdown the country too late, and he reopened the country too early. He doesn't know when is the right timing to take actions.
If he had an INFJ by his side to help counsel him when is the right timing to lockdown the country and reopen the country, the pandemic situation wouldn't have went out of control in the U.S.

INFJs also have inferior Se and are prone to inertia, and this is where ESTPs are able to help.
I actually know of an INFJ and an ESTP celebrity couple who dated for 9 years. The INFJ managed to start her own online business selling clothes and cosmetics and she managed to make millions of dollars from it. Guess who helped her to become successful and pushed her to start that business? It was her ESTP bf, he knew that she has a creative streak in her, so he started to encourage her toward setting up this business. Each time she loses confidence in herself, he would motivate her and encourage her, until she eventually succeeded. If not for the ESTP, the INFJ would be in an inertia mode and would be a jobless unemployed couch potato at home and wouldn't have become a millionaire.

This is also the reason why mbti INFJ and ESTP are often called soulmates in socionics and are a matchmake in heaven. The ESTPs and INFJs actually complement each other perfectly.:)
 

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Oh, I can definitely see you as an INFJ, and Ni subtype of INFJ to be even more precise. I saw quite a few of your posts around the forum, and there's no other mbti type that fits you more than INFJ.
Thanks, I have felt so rootless not being sure-sure, but this helps a lot. I actually Googled it and some of the things are just so spot on! Like I have had some issues with the whole INFJ being so organized, because I am but I have my creative mess but this line helped" In her apartment or at her workplace may allow for artistic mess and disorganization" - really spot on.

And this: "Has figurative, associative memory, and can recall experiences from the past down to the smallest detail. Reminiscing about the past, she recalls all the mistakes and mishaps, then extracts from them lessons for the future." is probably why my INTX friend sees me as being an ISFJ-type. This really blow my mind, thanks for this!
 

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Trying to read my mind. Seriously, just ask.
Don't know about you, but I've met some people who were good at telling what I was trying to hide or was not saying, without me previously realizing I was hiding it because it was bothering me; and hearing it helped me understand what was going on with myself better, or made me like the person more. I like it when people try to understand you without words.

But of course, it can be incredibly childish to simply jump to a conclusion or be 100% sure of an impression that you haven't checked at all with the other, and that comes from pure ego rather than a genuine attempt to "read you". It's especially true when they see that their conclusion is extremely irking or mean, or not fitting at all, but they still try to go with it... that's just bullying/being mean or trying to feel superior, nothing to do with trying to understand somebody, I've experienced that too.

Had this young guy once trying to make psychological guesses in a provocative way because he did not like some random truth I told him, saying things like "wow you were definitely the bully in high school" and other complete bullshit like that (it was such a bad guess because, furthermore, the opposite is true). He was on antidepressive pills like half the population of uk and drinking at the same time or smoking pot too, and he even came one evening to a gathering trying to play Jenga with shaking hands like he had Parkinson's. He was unable to concentrate properly, was swearing a lot, making disgusting jokes, and made me wonder how the hell he wasn't being escorted out of there by anyone because that to me was just unacceptable, socially-speaking. So weak... the whole thing. His whole energy was off and off-putting.

One thing I hate? Lies and ego. Well, it takes at least two to create a combo I can call "hate inducing".
 

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@Lovable @Hexigoon

ESTPs are INFJs' dual in socionics, and they are supposed to be the best match for INFJ whether it's friendship or even marriage, and this is why you guys felt an easy connection with ESTPs. The ESTP helps to protect your vulnerable areas while appreciating your good points, and they love you exactly as who you are without trying to change you, and this is also why ESTPs and INFJs tend to get along quite well, whether it's friendship or romantic wise. Btw, how did you guys meet your ESTP best friends? Did you meet them at school, or at the workplace, or at the bar, or where?
I'd like to meet more ESTPs in my life, and I wonder where I can find them, haha.

More about Duality: Socionics Intertype Relationships: Dual
Yeah I've heard about that too, and that types that share the same 2 middle functions tend to get along well also because there's a sort of balance there. I do like ENTPs and ISFJs as well. I've wondered what dating an ESTP would be like.... Sexual activity would be high surely.

My friend is my neighbour so I've known him most of my life. We went to school together and he'd always invite me out to play when I would've just stayed indoors otherwise. I think having some high Se friends is very good for INFJs.
I find Se attractive in others, and it helps feed Ni, but I know I'm not the best with it... At least my friend kinda helped me get more in touch with it so I don't know if I'm as bad at it as other INxJs...

I think ESTPs would be anywhere you'd find some action and excitement outdoors in particular. Gyms, parks, sporting events, parties, concerts, bars, beaches, festivals, wilderness exploration, military bootcamp, martial arts schools (my friend took up several martial arts growing up and earned quite a number of awards from it - was a pretty strong fighter).
I think he works in construction now, suits him.


It is okay, no harm done :) He is a nice enough guy, but yeah more like a brother than someone I would want to see naked.
I'm glad you have one too, they are precious :) Would you ever consider dating yours?

I don't think all my former boyfriends have been soul mates, maybe only 1 but in a fucked up spiderman/venom sort of way :s But with all of them I have felt that special bonding, that for me is part of that love feeling.
Only within reasonable limits? What if I want to draw outside the lines? :p
Yeah, dishonesty and cheating is a big no-go, agreed.

I don't know if you mistyped me? Maybe I just don't feel special enough to be an INFJ, I feel as it is made hard to "live up to" if that makes sense?
Thanks, I appreciate that.
Phew! ^^
Haha oh no no, my friend is heterosexual, and like with most ESTPs, was always blunt and straightforward about what he found hot. So he wouldn't want to date me even if I wanted. But yes, he's charming in a strange kind of way, like... I don't know anyone who disliked him even though he could say some pretty offensive things. Mostly jokes though. I couldn't stay upset with him even when he hurt me a few times.

It's natural to feel like that with partners. Well, maybe not the spiderman/venom thing, that sounds a little twisted. But with every partner I had I always felt like they were like "the one."
:p If you wanna draw outside of my reasonable lines then that's just getting into dangerous levels of sass because I'm already quite reasonably lenient.

Aww, you don't have to live up to anything like that. Being a certain type doesn't make someone more or less special.
I don't think I'm particularly special myself. I have too much uncertainity over who I really am to feel unique.


Haha, maybe it is time you bought one for yourself? :p

Oh that is a very harsh way to have the conversation about where the relationship is going.

I FEEL EXACTLY THE SAME WAY, is that a INFJ-thing? I want something to offer this little thing, and I want a find a partner that I feel can be a good fit as a father and partner in (not crime but) raising and being there. Which is also why I feel very angry towards people who gives up on their kids and leaves them, but I'm getting of topic again.
It's funny you say that because as far as I'm aware, guys don't usually buy vibrators for themselves, but the vibrations feel good all the same, so ahh... maybe I should... :giggle:

The relationship was already on thin ice at the time so kinda glad I was given that ultimatum really, it made it a bit easier to break it off.

That's really good to hear! Bad parents make me angry too. I'm not sure if it's an INFJ thing, but I don't want children being deprived of a good childhood because their parents don't have their shit together. Those early years are extremely important for their personal development. I want them to have a favourable upbringing so they have all they need to become their best selves as adults. I have a fear about bringing a monster into the world.



Then it sound like the right decision was made, but you know that better yourself :)

Yeah, I think he was really a jerk, so no I shouldn't and I won't.

Yeah, we are the great country with pastries ;) And caramel smelling condoms, haha :D
I know, right?
I do like Danish biscuits~<3 Oh so this means you're from Denmark?
Oh yes, what if I mixed caramel scented condoms with chocolate flavored lube...? Or would that be too much?
 

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There's a Dane here?
Where's the Dane?
Who's Danish?
What's a Dane doing here?
Where's the Dane?
Show me where the Dane is!
Dane!
Show yourself, Dane!
Dane! Dane! Dane!


Ps. I don't hate anything in my partner. Secretiveness maybe. Don't care to label it in one word like this.
 

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Yeah I've heard about that too, and that types that share the same 2 middle functions tend to get along well also because there's a sort of balance there. I do like ENTPs and ISFJs as well. I've wondered what dating an ESTP would be like.... Sexual activity would be high surely.

My friend is my neighbour so I've known him most of my life. We went to school together and he'd always invite me out to play when I would've just stayed indoors otherwise. I think having some high Se friends is very good for INFJs.
I find Se attractive in others, and it helps feed Ni, but I know I'm not the best with it... At least my friend kinda helped me get more in touch with it so I don't know if I'm as bad at it as other INxJs...

I think ESTPs would be anywhere you'd find some action and excitement outdoors in particular. Gyms, parks, sporting events, parties, concerts, bars, beaches, festivals, wilderness exploration, military bootcamp, martial arts schools (my friend took up several martial arts growing up and earned quite a number of awards from it - was a pretty strong fighter).
I think he works in construction now, suits him.
Oh I thought is was ENFP being the shared NF? Hmm.. I could see myself run off with a ENFP, like the one who almost charmed my pants right of..

I think my friend ESTP helps me to be more in the now, which can be a challenge because I'm always planning ahead or in my head. And like you said, helps me get outside and do more "sporty" activities.

My friend likes to play hardball, so maybe go somewhere actionpacked.

Glad he found a job that is for him :) My friend is coding all day, he is very good at it, do I am concerned that it is such a still sitting job and all his energy, but it seems to be working for him, and that is was is most important.

Phew! ^^
Haha oh no no, my friend is heterosexual, and like with most ESTPs, was always blunt and straightforward about what he found hot. So he wouldn't want to date me even if I wanted. But yes, he's charming in a strange kind of way, like... I don't know anyone who disliked him even though he could say some pretty offensive things. Mostly jokes though. I couldn't stay upset with him even when he hurt me a few times.

It's natural to feel like that with partners. Well, maybe not the spiderman/venom thing, that sounds a little twisted. But with every partner I had I always felt like they were like "the one."
:p If you wanna draw outside of my reasonable lines then that's just getting into dangerous levels of sass because I'm already quite reasonably lenient.

Aww, you don't have to live up to anything like that. Being a certain type doesn't make someone more or less special.
I don't think I'm particularly special myself. I have too much uncertainity over who I really am to feel unique.
Yeah, my friend is also very blunt about his prefered bodytype and such. Haha, same here :) I do sometimes take a minipause from him, if he really irks me, but like you say, I can't stay mad at him.

Yeah my venomguy was my best fit yet, and the most heartbreaking, he is "the one that got away" eventough I let him go myself. Twisted and long story, for another time perhaps :)

Haha, I think I will just keep drawing, and then we will see where things go :)

Thanks, that helps. :)

It's funny you say that because as far as I'm aware, guys don't usually buy vibrators for themselves, but the vibrations feel good all the same, so ahh... maybe I should... :giggle:

The relationship was already on thin ice at the time so kinda glad I was given that ultimatum really, it made it a bit easier to break it off.

That's really good to hear! Bad parents make me angry too. I'm not sure if it's an INFJ thing, but I don't want children being deprived of a good childhood because their parents don't have their shit together. Those early years are extremely important for their personal development. I want them to have a favourable upbringing so they have all they need to become their best selves as adults. I have a fear about bringing a monster into the world.
Go for it, it is important to do things for oneself :) And why not? Go out and buy yourself the biggest (or maybe just normalsized) and sparkliest one you can find :D

Oh, I see, so it was kind of blessing really, it all worked otu for the better then, that's nice :)

I know, right? I had the biggest argument with the foreskin guy because he had a friendcouple who were splitting up and they had a 2-year old. I said they should try and fix it, maybe do couple counseling or whatever for the little ones sake. He thought it was better that they just split and refused to suggest or even talk to his friend about counseling. I got so mad at him. I really think you owe it to the child to work things out! So many forget about the childs needs when they break up.

Well, this:" I don't want children being deprived of a good childhood because their parents don't have their shit together. Those early years are extremely important for their personal development. I want them to have a favourable upbringing so they have all they need to become their best selves as adults. I have a fear about bringing a monster into the world" - I couldn't have said it better myself. I totally agree with you on that. And also, I'm afraid of not loving it enough, of it having issues, of it feeling scared and confused and.. Also, I'm afraid to get a very extroverted child and me being introverted clasing :(


I do like Danish biscuits~<3 Oh so this means you're from Denmark?
Oh yes, what if I mixed caramel scented condoms with chocolate flavored lube...? Or would that be too much?
I don't know what danish biscuits are, is it those little butter cookies? Born and raised :) Are you born and raised in the UK? Do you still live there? How do you feel about leaving the EU?
Maybe it would be too much? I think I'm a bit of a one-flavor-at-a-time kinda girl :p
 

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Oh I thought is was ENFP being the shared NF? Hmm.. I could see myself run off with a ENFP, like the one who almost charmed my pants right of..

I think my friend ESTP helps me to be more in the now, which can be a challenge because I'm always planning ahead or in my head. And like you said, helps me get outside and do more "sporty" activities.

My friend likes to play hardball, so maybe go somewhere actionpacked.


Glad he found a job that is for him :) My friend is coding all day, he is very good at it, do I am concerned that it is such a still sitting job and all his energy, but it seems to be working for him, and that is was is most important.

Yeah, my friend is also very blunt about his prefered bodytype and such. Haha, same here :) I do sometimes take a minipause from him, if he really irks me, but like you say, I can't stay mad at him.

Yeah my venomguy was my best fit yet, and the most heartbreaking, he is "the one that got away" eventough I let him go myself. Twisted and long story, for another time perhaps :)

Haha, I think I will just keep drawing, and then we will see where things go :)

Thanks, that helps. :)
Oh don't get me wrong, ENFPs are great, I love those guys too. Any NF could potentially work very well. I guess your INFP ex didn't unfortunately... but a more healthier one could.

Honestly I'm glad you understand so well. ^-^ Your friend does coding though? That's pretty cool, do you know what language(s) he codes in?
It's a shame to hear you went through any twisted relationships or losing one that felt like a best fit for you. I can empathize with that quite a bit though and it sucks. What type do you think this venomguy was?

:sneaky: Wellllll, I did always like the artistic sorts. So I suppose I'll allow you to keep drawing away~.Hahah
No problem though! Any time.

Go for it, it is important to do things for oneself :) And why not? Go out and buy yourself the biggest (or maybe just normalsized) and sparkliest one you can find :D

Oh, I see, so it was kind of blessing really, it all worked otu for the better then, that's nice :)

I know, right? I had the biggest argument with the foreskin guy because he had a friendcouple who were splitting up and they had a 2-year old. I said they should try and fix it, maybe do couple counseling or whatever for the little ones sake. He thought it was better that they just split and refused to suggest or even talk to his friend about counseling. I got so mad at him. I really think you owe it to the child to work things out! So many forget about the childs needs when they break up.

Well, this:" I don't want children being deprived of a good childhood because their parents don't have their shit together. Those early years are extremely important for their personal development. I want them to have a favourable upbringing so they have all they need to become their best selves as adults. I have a fear about bringing a monster into the world" - I couldn't have said it better myself. I totally agree with you on that. And also, I'm afraid of not loving it enough, of it having issues, of it feeling scared and confused and.. Also, I'm afraid to get a very extroverted child and me being introverted clasing :(
😋 Ahaha you tempt me! A sparkly one? Wow, I quite like the sound of that, I don't know if I'd be able to handle something too big, I think I'd make it a little more discreet, but ironically sparkly, or just one that looks kinda.... artful. .

I suppose so anyway, because I wouldn't have got to be in a better relationship afterwards otherwise. Often the end of a relationship seems painful at first but if someone better comes along you do kinda feel relieved you had left it in retrospect.

See, I agree with you there though. They should try to fix it for the kid, assuming nothing abusive is going on and it's not dangerous.
I'd understand that, but if I was going to have kids with someone I'd want to make sure the partnership is pretty unbreakable. Which would take quite a lot of bonding and time to figure out, a lot of learning about them on a deep level.
I think people get into the habit of having kids too early into their relationship. They perhaps feel pressured to have them early. They don't take enough time to be absolutely sure this is the person they should have kids with and dedicate a good part of their life to.

I'm glad we do agree on this, I don't think you have to worry about the kid being too extraverted, though. Kids tend to take after their parents, and even so... you'd probably handle it better than you think you would based on what you're saying. Anyone who worries about these things has their heart in the right place and would make a great mother.


I don't know what danish biscuits are, is it those little butter cookies? Born and raised :) Are you born and raised in the UK? Do you still live there? How do you feel about leaving the EU?
Maybe it would be too much? I think I'm a bit of a one-flavor-at-a-time kinda girl :p
Oh is that what you call them? Then yeah, these, I like them very much!


I've never really spoken with someone from Denmark before though (that I'm aware of), so that's interesting! Is it nice there?
Yep, I was born and still live in the UK (England specifically). But my dad's side of the family is Dutch so I do have some roots in my mainland Europe as well.
I'm definitely not in favour of leaving the EU. I don't see anything good coming from that since there hasn't been any better alternatives proposed that would make me think Britain would be in a better position.
What would you say about this situation?

Lol alright then I'll keep that in mind. I wouldn't want to be too overindulgent~.
 

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Oh don't get me wrong, ENFPs are great, I love those guys too. Any NF could potentially work very well. I guess your INFP ex didn't unfortunately... but a more healthier one could.

Honestly I'm glad you understand so well. ^-^ Your friend does coding though? That's pretty cool, do you know what language(s) he codes in?
It's a shame to hear you went through any twisted relationships or losing one that felt like a best fit for you. I can empathize with that quite a bit though and it sucks. What type do you think this venomguy was?

:sneaky: Wellllll, I did always like the artistic sorts. So I suppose I'll allow you to keep drawing away~.Hahah
No problem though! Any time.
I'm not so sure. After I ended it (he is not my ex because we where never boyfriend/girlfriend because he didn't think we where "there" yet... jesus) I looked up his functions because the way he reated to me "breaking the news" told me he had a different reaction to the feeling thing then me. And I was correct, they have FI where we have FE. Also They are the mirror twin thing of the ESTJ, which is one of the types I have issues with (sorry if you read this and that is your type, I will try to like you anyway dear reader) So maybe I should stay clear of them? IDK.. I did have a INFP penpal that I had a crush on for a while, but I don't think he felt the same.

.NET and C#, we took the same class :) He is a lot better then me though, lol, I think his T is really helping him.

You have to kiss a few frogs to find your prins they say :) But thanks for your empathy. I think he was IXTJ maybe INTJ. Or maybe an unhealthy INFJ, IDK.. I did think about writing him and asking but I don't think his new wife would like us to have contact.

Well then, I just need a box of crayons and then I will get startet, any painting challenges that you wanna send my way? :p

😋 Ahaha you tempt me! A sparkly one? Wow, I quite like the sound of that, I don't know if I'd be able to handle something too big, I think I'd make it a little more compact. But sparkly, yes, or just one that looks kinda.... artful. .

I suppose so anyway, because I wouldn't of got to have a better relationship afterwards. Often the end of a relationship seems painful at first but if someone better comes along you do kinda feel relieved you had left it in retrospect.

See, I agree with you there. They should try to fix it assuming nothing abusive is going on and it's not dangerous for the kid to be in that situation.
I'd understand that, but if I was going to have kids with someone I'd want to make sure the partnership is pretty unbreakable. Which would take quite a lot of bonding and time to figure out, a lot of learning about them on a deep level.
I think people get into the habit of having kids too early into their relationship. They perhaps feel pressured to have them early. They don't take enough time to be absolutely sure this is the person they should have kids with and dedicate a good part of their life to.

I'm glad we do agree on this, I don't think you have to worry about the kid being too extroverted, though. Kids tend to take after their parents, and even so... you'd probably handle it better than you think you would based on what you're saying. Anyone who worries about these things has their heart in the right place and would make a great mother.
As sparkliest as it can get ;) go for it!

Oh that is true. Which is why I'm sure the universe will send me something great now, after the last one was kind of a dud.

THANK YOU, OMG, I had the biggest fight with the foreskin guy over this! He was like: nah, they should just split. I was infuriated at him. He said they just "grew" apart and they guy had to move for her and that didn't went so well. I still think therapy could have fixed this but..
Yes me too! I want a partner that stays, which seem like impossible to find.. I don't think it will happen overnight but like you say, take the time to really go deep and get to know their soul. O I agree, way to early. They also don't really seem to care about the fit that much. It's like: you are single, I'm single so therefore we should have a baby. I can't follow that logic at all.

I'm just so happy somebody agrees with me on this, since most people don't get me about this at all. And also fighting with the foreskin guy did make me question my values.

Thanks, that is nice to hear :)


Oh is that what you call them? Then yeah, these, I like them very much!


I've never really spoken with someone from Denmark before though (that I'm aware of), so that's interesting! Is it nice there?
Yep, I was born and still live in the UK (England specifically). But my dad's side of the family is Dutch so I do have some roots in my mainland Europe as well.
I'm definitely not in favour of leaving the EU. I don't see anything good coming from that since there hasn't been any better alternatives proposed that would make me think Britain would be in a better position.
What would you say about this situation?

Lol alright then I'll keep that in mind. I wouldn't want to be too overindulgent~.
Oh yeah those, those were exactly the ones I was thinking of :) They are kind that old ladies always have. They are nice, but I can think of many things I would rather munch on, no offense :)

Yes, I love my country. Our gornments way of handling the whole corona things has been amazing, and we have very few deaths and very few who has the virus. Also we bike a lot :p
Oh nice, I've been to London a couple of times, really like the city.
I agree, more rules and tighter. Which also means more control and more expensive. I think it is sad, I also foresee that it will make traveling more annoying between EU countries and the UK. I really hoped they would change their mind, I still do :/
 

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When I've only just met a blurry version of her behind Jeremy Clarkson via a video on YouTube, and she pretends like I'm not here.

866031


Like, hello, ghost me much.
 

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[/QUOTE]
Don't know about you, but I've met some people who were good at telling what I was trying to hide or was not saying, without me previously realizing I was hiding it because it was bothering me; and hearing it helped me understand what was going on with myself better, or made me like the person more. I like it when people try to understand you without words.
You did the right thing. You told me 'you didn't know about me'. x)

I dearly LOVE it when they try to read my mind. But I detest with a passion barely bridled the woundedness that happens from their side when they guess WRONG and I tell them so.

If you are trying to read my mind, BE COMFORTABLE BOTH WITH YOUR FAILURE AND MY TELLING YOU YOU FAILED, because only getting it right is right (all the way).
Yes. Expect to be wrong more often than right.
 
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