[Miss Scarlet]

Let's talk about our exact opposite the ISFP. I would like to hear you opinions on this type. Everything for personal experiences, generalizations, stories, overall first impressions. I want the good the bad and the ugly people. I also want to know what you think they think of us! Do you think that they think we're evil? Awesome? Annoying? What do you think that they are really good at that we could learn to do and vis versa. ISFP's feel free to chime in too!

Let the ideas commence!

 

[CherryRed]

I had to join personalitycafe just to post on this! Not too much out there on this shadow relationship...

I am consistently drawn ENTJs--I have three males that have significantly impacted my life: high school sweetheart, current roommate and a recent love affair that has physically ended, but is proving to be impossible to shake mentally...ugh so I'm partially here to beg for ENTJ insight.

Initially I'm very self-conscious around them-obviously, they are everything I am not. At the same time, I realize that because we are SO different it's impossible to be anything but myself-too much of a stretch to put on an act!!

Here are some blanket dynamics I've noticed:

• "quit being so judgmental/insensitive" runs through my mind a lot...
• I feel like I see their emotional flaws so acutely- which makes me believe my flaws must be glaringly obvious as well.
• Seem to jump to conclusions prematurely...blame the weak P-ness? hehe :wink:
• I have really intense emotions for people, but I'm absolutely terrible at expressing them. My big fat Fi with ENTJ inferior Fi is obviously frustrating...

What I love:

• My practicality complements their logic nicely. Even though I do what I FEEL, what I feel must make sense
• I feel very secure around them, ENTJs are so great at pulling it all together, so efficient!
• Although we come from very different angles, I truly respect their opinion. They challenge me to think in a different manner.

I am SO attracted to the aforementioned ENTJ love interest-but I feel my inability to articulate my feelings may have killed my chance. :sad: Even though I did not demand anything from him...time, a label, "the talk" etc., (what can I say, I let it "be") he abruptly ended things quoting that he didn't have the time for a relationship.

So, I assumed he wasn't into me, tried to move on and we didn't speak for 6 months....but just recently he broke the silence when he texted me "Happy Anniversary" on the day we first met.... what?? To me, that doesn't make "rational" sense, someone please tell me what was the point? I was under the impression when ENTJs are done, they're done.

Now I have to think about him all over again. Perhaps we really do speak a different language.

 

[Miss Scarlet]

I had to join personalitycafe just to post on this! Not too much out there on this shadow relationship...

I am consistently drawn ENTJs--I have three males that have significantly impacted my life: high school sweetheart, current roommate and a recent love affair that has physically ended, but is proving to be impossible to shake mentally...ugh so I'm partially here to beg for ENTJ insight.

Initially I'm very self-conscious around them-obviously, they are everything I am not. At the same time, I realize that because we are SO different it's impossible to be anything but myself-too much of a stretch to put on an act!!

Here are some blanket dynamics I've noticed:

• "quit being so judgmental/insensitive" runs through my mind a lot...
• I feel like I see their emotional flaws so acutely- which makes me believe my flaws must be glaringly obvious as well.
• Seem to jump to conclusions prematurely...blame the weak P-ness? hehe :wink:
• I have really intense emotions for people, but I'm absolutely terrible at expressing them. My big fat Fi with ENTJ inferior Fi is obviously frustrating...

What I love:

• My practicality complements their logic nicely. Even though I do what I FEEL, what I feel must make sense
• I feel very secure around them, ENTJs are so great at pulling it all together, so efficient!
• Although we come from very different angles, I truly respect their opinion. They challenge me to think in a different manner.

I am SO attracted to the aforementioned ENTJ love interest-but I feel my inability to articulate my feelings may have killed my chance. :sad: Even though I did not demand anything from him...time, a label, "the talk" etc., (what can I say, I let it "be") he abruptly ended things quoting that he didn't have the time for a relationship.

So, I assumed he wasn't into me, tried to move on and we didn't speak for 6 months....but just recently he broke the silence when he texted me "Happy Anniversary" on the day we first met.... what?? To me, that doesn't make "rational" sense, someone please tell me what was the point? I was under the impression when ENTJs are done, they're done.

Now I have to think about him all over again. Perhaps we really do speak a different language.

ENTJ Personality Types I found this thought you might think it was interesting... It's at the bottom of the page. I will respond to your post on another page.

 

[Miss Scarlet]

On the dynamics.

* yeah I think most ISPF's feel like we are to hard on them and logical based.
*I think it really depends on the ENTJ and how observant they are. ISFP's are good at hiding things so sometimes we have no idea.
*I don't think that it that we make decisions to fast. I think that it's just the contrast each other in that area. ISPF's take forever, ENTJ's are decisive. And we know it. When we do however make a decision that did work out we quickly course correct our selves . I think ISFP's are afraid to have to course correct and so they take for ever making a decision so that they don't have to do that.

 

[CristianLuca]

Generally speaking ISFPs are very good matches for type 8 ENTJ , better then INFP even.

 

[Miss Scarlet]

Generally speaking ISFPs are very good matches for type 8 ENTJ , better then INFP even.

Ehhh Not for me. I can't handle them. And they actually get along better with ESFJ's.

 

[Knives]

Generally speaking ISFPs are very good matches for type 8 ENTJ , better then INFP even.

Fi confuses and frustrates me. OUT WITH IT! I would not appreciate that in a mate.

 

[Diphenhydramine]

Fi confuses and frustrates me. OUT WITH IT! I would not appreciate that in a mate.

What specifically do you dislike about it? It is, after all, supposedly one of your cog functions as an ENTJ.

 

[Knives]

Everything? Haha

No seriously though, working on the way I handle emotions has always been one of my points, since it does not come naturally to me. Even in myself, it confuses and frustrates me, honestly.

What I don't like about it as a dominant function is that it eclipses other functions in ISFP and INFPs which, IME, often makes them more guarded and sensitive. It's hard to work through emotional problems or to explain how my commentary was not meant to be inflammatory if you never tell me you were offended. That is why I would not appreciate it in a mate. Openness about emotional issues is crucial for a healthy relationship.

The only time I met an INFP and tried to have a romantic relationship, he went off the deep end one night about how all women just use him blah blah blah, and had a meltdown in my car. He was fairly brilliant too, it was a bummer. He apologized later but it was too late.

e: To edit this further, I failed to mention that I would prefer Fe as opposed to Fi, even though I think that that was clearly implied. I envy certain aspects of Fe, like their ability to know how far to push people and how to show affection without being awkward, two things I could work on. INFJs are a good example. They are Fe and Ni. Double win.

In conclusion, just because Fi is part of my type does not mean that I am attracted to it.

 

[Diphenhydramine]

Everything? Haha

No seriously though, working on the way I handle emotions has always been one of my points, since it does not come naturally to me. Even in myself, it confuses and frustrates me, honestly.

What I don't like about it as a dominant function is that it eclipses other functions in ISFP and INFPs which, IME, often makes them more guarded and sensitive. It's hard to work through emotional problems or to explain how my commentary was not meant to be inflammatory if you never tell me you were offended. That is why I would not appreciate it in a mate. Openness about emotional issues is crucial for a healthy relationship.

The only time I met an INFP and tried to have a romantic relationship, he went off the deep end one night about how all women just use him blah blah blah, and had a meltdown in my car. He was fairly brilliant too, it was a bummer. He apologized later but it was too late.

e: To edit this further, I failed to mention that I would prefer Fe as opposed to Fi, even though I think that that was clearly implied. I envy certain aspects of Fe, like their ability to know how far to push people and how to show affection without being awkward, two things I could work on. INFJs are a good example. They are Fe and Ni. Double win.

I see. But surely you must use your Fi? Or don't you use it at all? Because if you use it, you should be able to make logical connections regarding Fi. I mean, I use my Fi an awful lot, but I'm really bad with emotions... my Fi always inspires anger and feelings of injustice etc. You're right about Fi-doms though; I find sometimes they can go off on a bad mood and I, and others, have very little clue why. Really annoying!

 

[Knives]

Absolutely. It is the key to my moral framework. It is what enables me to be loyal (which I am to a fault) and what drives some of my political philosophy; which, like you said, inspires anger against injustices. I think it is safe to say that it is the trait which enables my empathy and sympathy.

It's also why I admire Fe, in a relationship ONE of us should know what we're doing on that front, lol

 

[Diphenhydramine]

What's your political philosophy? I'm actually quite curious as to how ENTJs go with politics... my Fi pretty much defines my political views (although I have read enough to back them up and to debate them to a full extent.)

 

[Knives]

I believe in justice and compassion for the proletariat. Teddy Roosevelt is one of my historical favourites, especially when it comes to monopolies. I HATE monopolies. I hate this idea that oligopolies = free market capitalism; using the love that people have for capitalism and using it to engender support for oligopolies which have many barriers to entry. It's disgusting the way large corporations are being counterproductive when it comes to innovation. The RIAA makes me seethe. The way the GOP touts against immigration yet many of the rich men who outsource and hire illegals are the ones who benefit most from GOP policies.

Yes, I think it is safe to say Fi clearly drives these thoughts :crying:

 

[Diphenhydramine]

You sound like a libertarian, heh.

Yes, the market has been abused and beaten. Anyway, I'm a radical. The only hope of mankind is violent insurrection before it's no longer possible. All western states are rapidly becoming closed societies. Only the United States had the sort of populace that could violently overthrow a tyrannical Government. Your friends across the pond are not quite so lucky.

Oh well. I've acknowledged the fact that my views will never come to fruition... it was a sad day. Now they're just Ni-fodder.

 

[Knives]

I'm a libertarian with compassion. I do not believe in letting the poor suffer for the sake of it. I too am a fan of revolution. Not to go too OT but Muse is one of my favourite bands due to their revolutionary ballads. Exogenesis is quite amazing.

The tree of liberty...:wink:

 

[Diphenhydramine]

You should listen to The Clash. It's sort of revolutionary-left music, but its still kinda cool... dunno if it's your sort of thing though.

Also The Levellers.

To be on topic, I don't think Fi-doms use Fi in the same way that ENTJs would. For instance, Fi-doms are more likely to cry about things, we're more likely to do something about them (or try, I guess.)

 

[Knives]

Oh yeah, I went through a huge Clash phase in my early college years. They're a classic and the guns of brixton is still one of my favourites.

Yes, I agree with that analysis. For example, the whole oil spill thing. Sure it drives me crazy how a corporation got away with that egregious of a mistake; but why watch it everyday? Not like watching will help fix it.

 

[CherryRed]

In terms of Fi and Fe relations, which is worse: not naturally being aware of how someone feels, or being aware but completely overwhelmed with how to handle it?

To me, extroverted feeling is bewildering-big expression of emotion can seem over-dramatic.

My natural objective is finding a way to relate to someone in order to understand them. With ENTJs, trying to reciprocate their energy is noticeably uncomfortable. Hitting the pause button on the sensitivity chip makes me feel cold, but it's empowering at the same time. It's like exercising a weak muscle- an area that could be stronger, but it requires significant effort. Is it equally difficult for ENTJs to be...dare I say it...tender-hearted?

I think this relationship has the most to gain utilizing MBTI; the chance for growth is huge, but it is hardly easy.
Must be equally committed to making the effort.

 

[Knives]

In terms of Fi and Fe relations, which is worse: not naturally being aware of how someone feels, or being aware but completely overwhelmed with how to handle it?

I'd rather know. It might be overwhelming, but at least then we can work on it together. Like Diphenhydramine said, Fi is also one of my functions. I am too familiar with the tendency to ignore emotional issues, often for the benefit of others. I stand by my preference for Fe. Fe types know how to pry open the elusive Fi function in an ENTJ, and are not as overwhelmed by our stress induced outbursts.

To me, extroverted feeling is bewildering-big expression of emotion can seem over-dramatic.

See, since my Fi is not something I exercise a lot, often times it comes out as over dramatic. I can accept and tolerate Fe drama because often times, particularly under times of emotional duress, I can give them a run for their money if they actually get inside of my head. Plus, other people's emotions don't tend to stress me out. I am very good at handling excitable or melodramatic people.

My natural objective is finding a way to relate to someone in order to understand them. With ENTJs, trying to reciprocate their energy is noticeably uncomfortable.

I do enjoy being an energetic and fast paced individual. Is that what you meant? Or were you referring to energy as in our overall personality?

Hitting the pause button on the sensitivity chip makes me feel cold, but it's empowering at the same time. It's like exercising a weak muscle- an area that could be stronger, but it requires significant effort. Is it equally difficult for ENTJs to be...dare I say it...tender-hearted?

It is more difficult for me to put aside objectivity for subjectivity.

Tender hearted isn't the term I would use. I'm not trying to be petty, but I'm saying that we are in fact very capable of being tender hearted, it is just not as active a part of our makeup. We have our personal ideals and vendettas, but only discuss them if our interest is particularly piqued. It IS hard for me to express deep emotions, failures, worries, and the like to others unless I feel extremely at ease, or if I am cornered. The whole "Don't carry the world on your shoulders" thing does not seem to get through to me. That is how it is difficult.

I think this relationship has the most to gain utilizing MBTI;

That is a bold statement to make. I think both parties could gain valuable experience from other types without a lot of the stress and hurt that a Te tends to unleash on an Fi, or the confusion that a dominant Fi brings. Moreover, I think that in theory, the IxFP would have to toughen up a bit first before being able to break through the walls of an ENTJ's emotional defenses. Not to sound like an ESxJ, but those defenses really are there for your own good.

the chance for growth is huge, but it is hardly easy.

Only if both parties are open to a new experience.

Must be equally committed to making the effort.

We are committed, but I know I back off if someone clams up, especially when I have no intention or natural ability to have many heart-to-hearts. I think that initially it would take more compromise on the IxFP end, and then a huge compromise on the part of the ENTJ later on in the relationship.

 

[Black Rabbit]

First off, Knives, welcome to this forum. I really appreciate your input.

In regards to our inferior function, Fi, it appears that we have little control in its development or lack thereof. I have a quote from John Bebee that might explain this better than I can.

Von Franz made it clear that we have a choice about developing function #3, but that the integration of function #4, the inferior function, is very much under the control of the unconscious, which limits what we can do with it. Nevertheless, this much of the unconscious belongs in a sense to the ego—and even provides the bridge to the Self that the other differentiated functions can not.

I became aware that the inferior function was often thought by Jungian analysts to operate in this way because it is ‘carried’ by the Anima or Animus, archetypes of soul that can serve as tutelary figures, representing the otherness of the unconscious psyche, and also its capacity to speak to us to enlarge our conscious perspectives (Jung 1921/1971: 467-472) (note 1). The Anima and Animus are like fairy bridges to the unconscious, allowing, almost magically, a relationship to develop between the two parts of the mind, conscious and unconscious, with the potential to replace this tension of opposites with the harmony of wholeness. And it is through the undifferentiated, incorrigible inferior function that they do their best work!

Bebee's best explanation for how Fi works was "magic". I doubt I could do much better that. Anyhow, it seems that the development of our Fi is largely outside the boundaries of our consciousness. Perhaps the development of Fi is developed as we face different circumstances and events in our lives, somehow seeping into our unconscious, and ......forget it, I don't have a clue. (This is why I think a MBTI book club is a good idea. Things like this are interesting.)