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MOTM Feb 2012
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
The traits of the Six and those of the Five are in some degree of conflict with each other. The general orientation of Sixes is toward affiliation with others, while the orientation of Fives is toward detachment from people so that they can avoid being influenced by anyone. Sixes and Fives are both looking for safety, but Sixes look to alliances with others and commintment to systems of though for security, while Fives tend to retreat from others and to tinker with, or even dismantle, established systems of thought. Both tendencies exist in the Six with a Five-wing, producing a subtype which sees itself as fighting for the “little person,” while at the same time being drawn to systems, alliances, and beliefs which often contain strong authoritarian elements. Sixes with a Five-wing can seem like Ones because they are serious, self-controlled, and committed to specific moral, ethical, and political beliefs. Like Eights, they can also be rather outspoken and passionate in the expression of their beliefs, with less concern about being liked than the Six with a Seven-wing. Noteworthy examples of this subtype include Richard Nixon, Robert F. Kennedy, George Bush, Malcom X, Robert Redford, Michele Pfeiffer, Diane Keaton, Jessica Lange, Bruce Springsteen, Phil Donahue, Rock Hudson, Billy Graham, Walter Mondale, Alexander Haig, Bob Dole, Joseph McCarthy, J. Edgar Hoover, Oliver North, Meir Kahane, and John Hinckley, Jr.

Healthy people of this subtype combine the Six's capacity for organization and personal engagement with the Five's perceptiveness and curiosity. They may have a strong intellectual streak, depending on how much the Five-wing is in their overall personality. Healthy Sixes with a Five-wing often develop technical expertise and are valued as practical problems solvers; they are good communicators, educators, and pundits. They are also attracted to professions such as medicine, law, and engineering; they desire to master a system of knowledge, but within a field where the rules and parameters are established and known. They often get involved with political causes and community service. There is a strong identification with the underdog, and Sixes with a Five-wing may become the spokespeople or champions for groups or individuals they see as disadvantaged. Sixes with a Five-wing possess greater powers of concentration and focus than the other subtype (6w7), although they can sometimes be perceived as too narrow in their concerns. They are usually shrewd observers of the environment, particularly people, and put a premium on foresight and predicting how others will react. Their perceptions are more original than those of the Sixes with a Seven-wing, but because Six is the basic type, they do come across not as intellectuals, bu as extremely competent, knowledgeable individuals.

The anxiety we see in average Sixes also causes people of this subtype to be more intense than Sixes with a Seven-wing. Sixes with a Five-wing are more independent than Sixes with a Seven-wing, and are less likely to go to others for reassurance, advice, or to solve their problems. They may have one or two mentors or confidants, but in most cases they will “gut out” their problems and anxieties alone. They can be very hardworking and loyal to the systems or people with whom they have identified, but this can lead to strong partisan stances and a competitiveness with rivals. Persons of this subtype tend to be constricted in the expression of their emotions and are usually more detached, cerebral, and pessimistic. The Five-wing also adds a tendency toward secretiveness and compartmentalization which fuels the suspiciousness of the average Six. As their Insecurities escalate, they tend to see the world as dangerous. They become more reactive and aggressive, and will denounce or scapegoat any perceived threat to their security. They see others as potential enemies and fear that people may be conspiring to ruin them. Ironically, thy may respond by hatching plots against others.

Unhealthy persons of this subtype become increasingly paranoid and obsessed with maintaining their security, and may go to great lengths to protect their position. They are extremely needy, and may abuse alcohol or other drugs as a way of dealing with anxiety and paranoid delusions, as well as bolstering their inferiority feelings. The Five-wing adds elements of cynicism and nihilism to the fearful mentality of the unhealthy Six, resulting in growing isolation, desperation, and a capacity for sociopathic actions. Intense stress will likely lead to outbreaks of rage and extremely destructive behavior accompanies by breaks with reality. Self-sabotaging, self-destructive actions bring about humiliation and punishment to atone for guilt, although the extent and nature of their self-destructiveness will be hidden from others because of their reclusive nature. There may be strong propensity for violence as well as sadomasochistic tendencies in sexual expression. Murder and suicide are both real possibilities.

Riso, Don Richard., and Russ Hudson. Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-discovery. Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1996. Print.
 

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I like this article for the most part. I think sixes in general can be a mixed bag. I think how they turn out depends on each individual. The whole, "muder/suicide being real possibilities" is a poor way to conclude the article. I mean perhaps that is a possibility but perhaps they also are the ones who will talk the suicidal person down from thier ledge and make the murderer thier arch nemisis.

It is easy for all of us to be either or. I think in articles like this we definitly shouldn't puff up our personalities but the negatives should be stated more carefully, aknowledged, but not a general conclusion. This personality typing ought to be stated carefully because we wouldn't want to inspire that in a more cynical, delusional, and more selfish or a self destructive, depressed, tired 6w5.

I personally, scan the environment more than is called for, listen with my ears wide, and train myself to handle and better handle problems with the down trodden and vulnerable folks. That is my personal conquest. Certainly, there are some 6w5 who are nuts (Hitler) and don't worry there are 6w5 out there that despise those tendencies and look for em.

I guess the way I'd sum this up is some of the people looking around are looking to manipulate and some of the ones looking around are looking for mercy, justic, and liberation. It's everyone's personal fight to look at the devil and angel on thier shoulders and make a choice which influence to follow.

It's pretty simple people either destroy or build, heal or hurt, give or take, and all the options inbetween. The way I look towards systems is to protect the individual. To let the system be a standard and a voice so it doesnt happen in the first place and if it does the rules are in place to be enforced. Sure thier are sucky systems out there but in some situations its necessary like the law, democracy, and so forth.
 

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MOTM Feb 2012
ISTJ 9w1
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I think how they turn out depends on each individual. The whole, "muder/suicide being real possibilities" is a poor way to conclude the article. I mean perhaps that is a possibility but perhaps they also are the ones who will talk the suicidal person down from thier ledge and make the murderer thier arch nemisis.
I agree. This book has a tendency to be quite depressing. It's unfortunate that the section ended on such a terrible note, but you're 100% correct that each type is a wide spectrum from the very best to the very worst, with most people falling somewhere in the middle. I'm glad to hear you got some use out of it overall.
 

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"The Defender" -- is that why so many Type-6's end up in the military? The desire to defend?
 

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They see others as potential enemies and fear that people may be conspiring to ruin them. Ironically, thy may respond by hatching plots against others.
Is this why I'm making provisions to counter any surprise attacks from my superior I can "read." LOL damn......
 

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I wonder how many lifeguards were/are 6w5's...
 

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"The Defender" -- is that why so many Type-6's end up in the military? The desire to defend?
As a 6w5 military member myself, I'll say that's part of it. It's a hostile world out there, and the only thing that keeps it from getting worse is people like us.
 

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listentothemountains

I don't believe most people are conspiring against me...
 
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listentothemountains

I don't believe most people are conspiring against me...
Pardon my lack of coherence of thought caused by posting at 11:00pm when I was very tired.

I'm not a healthy 6 right now. I've just discovered that I am a 6, and now I'm trying to study this and face the reality of who I am. I'm just trying to figure out how I think, and in what ways I relate closely, or less closely, to the descriptions, and how I can become more healthy.

Most of the time I have an undercurrent of worry running through my thoughts, and sometimes I vaguely wonder if everyone has conspired together to "get me" in some way. More of the time I wonder if one specific person or another doesn't like me or wishes me harm.
 

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After reading this articles... I found I lost... I don't know what am I now...
I am not sure if I am 6w5 or 6w7 now...
<.<..I'm lost as well....it's netween 6w7 and 6w5 or maybe 4w5 and 9w1...thing is I'm withdrawn and not very social so :\ 6w7 is not a good fit....but O_O the negative side of 6w5 is freaky scary...murder...suicide and drugs...heightened propensity for violence! :S...wtf is that all about!?

I was in really bad personal states before, full blown nihilistic depression...where I cried out for help by slitting my wrist <.< but the immediate reaction after that was to figure out the situation, get to know what is wrong with e and fix it up. Like I'm a broken down car...I figure out what is wrong and fix it, when I break down again, I repeat the process.

If things get bad....I'm more likely to just walk away or hurt myself. I'd never forgive myself for hurting someone else and :\ nay "breaks with reality" only happen when I'm daydreaming.
 

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I have saved one life by talking a fellow who had lost a relative into coming down out of a tower instead of jumping. I think it is strange how I can tell someone to "get a life!"if I hear them whining and having a pity party but run to their rescue pouring my heart out if they are in real danger.

I`m Wonder Woman if there is real danger but I`m nervous and a little frightened if have to do a public speech! ;)
 

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I can feel the tug of type six leading me towards the institutions of society and people but being counterphobic typically and my five wing leads towards detached contemplation so I know better. I believe in conventional justice for conventional people because that's what most people understand. I will defend the "common" values of human decency but besides that I can't support in full confidence the notion of tradition. The anxiety is always an issue, always...
 

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I have saved one life by talking a fellow who had lost a relative into coming down out of a tower instead of jumping. I think it is strange how I can tell someone to "get a life!"if I hear them whining and having a pity party but run to their rescue pouring my heart out if they are in real danger.

I`m Wonder Woman if there is real danger but I`m nervous and a little frightened if have to do a public speech! ;)
That’s is one of the reasons I knew I was a 6. I am always looking for danger and have anxiety all the time but every time I have actually been in danger or someone I was with was everything just slows down. I become extremely calm and take care of it.
I try to remember that when I am having one of my "bad" times that there is much benefit from being the way I am.

LG

 

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I think the expression "Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one" pertains to 6w5s. I feel like, as a 6w5, we're very aware of the darker side of human nature...we see it in others even when they can't see it themselves. We see it in ourselves and that adds to the stereotypical anxiety (I'm an INFJ as well, so I have some moralistic tendencies as well...being a good person is important to me...). I feel like everyone is capable of doing terrible things (if sufficiently motivated)...but we're perhaps more in touch with that reality than other types are. Of course everyone is capable of doing wonderful things as well, but...I think the logic is that, if I mentally prepare for something bad to happen, then when it does, I'll at least be ready. And if nothing goes wrong, I'll be pleasantly surprised! Win-win! But I don't think of it as pessimism, I think of it as realism, TBH. I personally have experienced enough abuse to be well aware of what people are capable of.
 

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I think the expression "Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one" pertains to 6w5s. I feel like, as a 6w5, we're very aware of the darker side of human nature...we see it in others even when they can't see it themselves. We see it in ourselves and that adds to the stereotypical anxiety (I'm an INFJ as well, so I have some moralistic tendencies as well...being a good person is important to me...). I feel like everyone is capable of doing terrible things (if sufficiently motivated)...but we're perhaps more in touch with that reality than other types are. Of course everyone is capable of doing wonderful things as well, but...I think the logic is that, if I mentally prepare for something bad to happen, then when it does, I'll at least be ready. And if nothing goes wrong, I'll be pleasantly surprised! Win-win! But I don't think of it as pessimism, I think of it as realism, TBH. I personally have experienced enough abuse to be well aware of what people are capable of.
True I am a 6w5 myself and I think like that as well to prepare for the worst just in case if anything happens I will know what to do. But it takes a certain types of analytical abilities to even have this kind of thought process as well.
 
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