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MOTM Feb 2012
ISTJ 9w1
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The traits of the Eight and those of the Nine are in some degree of conflict with each other. The Eight tends toward assertiveness and taking on challenges and conflicts, whereas the Nine tends toward the suppression of aggression and the avoidance of conflicts and upset. Eights with a Nine-wing enjoy their comfort and peace, and tend to be much more domestic than Eights with a Seven-wing, but still make it clear to all in their sphere that they are in control. Depending on the Nine-wing's strength, individuals of this subtype are somewhat more oriented to people more easily and with less confrontational or aggressive undertones. They still get things done their way, but more likely with a soft, firm voice and more casual demeanor. They are also less self-assertive, exuding an aura of quiet strength and of power held in reserve. In general, this is a less openly aggressive overall personality pattern, although since Eight is the basic type, persons of this subtype can still be quite aggressive, especially when they need to be. They tend to maintain a “poker face” with others, somewhat stolid and impassive, although when aroused they can suddenly become passionate and angry. Like Nines, Eights with a Nine-wing are often unaware of their own strength or the force of their anger. Noteworthy examples of this subtype include Martin Luther King, Jr., Golda Meir, Janet Reno, Charles de Gaulle, Indira Gandhi, Pablo Picasso, Marlon Brando, Paul Newman, John Huston, Robert Altman, Barbara Stanwyck, John Wayne, Charlton Heston, Johnny Cash, Fidel Castro, Leonid Brezhnev, “Darth Vader,” “King Lear,” and “Don Vito Corleone.”

Healthy persons of this subtype possess a quiet power and an understated wisdom. They are strategic planners like the other subtype, but tend to be more steady and inexorable in the execution of their goals. They are not easily perturbed, and are noticeably more at ease with themselves and with other people, not feeling that they must assert themselves at every moment or in every situation. There is less of a wheeler-dealer quality than in the Eight with a Seven-wing, although Eights with a Nine-wing also prefer to run their own enterprises. They are, at times, more open to concerns beyond their immediate self-interest, particularly those involving members of their own family. They are the kinder, more benign patresfamilias or matriarchs, strong-willed but mild-mannered, who tend to assert leadership more through support and protectiveness. Eights with a Nine-wing are able to forge a personal, almost mystical bond between themselves and others. They may be involved with the arts, nature, animals, and children.

Average people of this subtype begin to show a definite split between the two sides of themselves – the aggressive side (which they show in public and in competitive situations) and the passive, more accommodating side (which they reveal to very few, principally their families). The discrepancies in their attitudes toward people can be striking – warm and affectionate at home, hard-nosed and aggressive at work. People of this subtype usually do not seek publicity actively, and like to live quietly, privately, and unobtrusively, preferring to control their affairs from behind the scenes. Their expansive forcefulness is grounded on some inner fortress of imperturbable strength which others are not allowed to breach. This inner sanctum is undisturbed and at peace, although it is doubtful that people of this subtype benefit from that inner part of themselves as much as they might. Others often experience this quality in them as a form of stubbornness and an ability to turn out anxieties. Since Eight is the basic personality type, people of this subtype dominate others, although with a velvet glove over an iron fist. There is a sly, watchful quality in average Eights with a Nine-wing – as if they are daring others to underestimate them. They tend to speak more slowly, but are attuned to the nonverbal cues and body language of the people around them. They can seem friendly and agreeable while secretly sizing people up and assessing their character. In the lower levels, Eights with a Nine-wing more from stubbornness to a quietly menacing quality. However, their moods and reactions tend to be unpredictable. They can be intimidating and belligerent, and then accommodating and kindhearted, especially to those who are close to them.. Those around them are never quite sure when their explosive tempers are going to erupt.

Unhealthy Eights with a Nine-wing become reclusive, depressed, and dissociated, but if they have access to power, they can also be extremely vengeful. Since this subtype is almost immune from anxiety, unhealthy Eights with a Nine-wing can be destructive without remorse, combining ruthlessness with indifference. They can get into a strangely dissociated frame of mind, acting in a depersonalized way, as if they were some sort of cosmic force which swatted people aside, crushing them without personal feelings entering the picture. People in this subtype tend, in general, to be less violent and destructive than those in the other subtype. However, if necessary they may be violent toward others, personally regretting the suffering they cause but not feeling any empathy or having any real understanding of what they do. They may make up for the lesser degree of violence they wreak on the environment by generally living longer, thus possibly doing more damage in the long run to those who have the misfortune to live with them.


Riso, Don Richard., and Russ Hudson. Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-discovery. Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1996. Print.
 

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Thanks, but I didn't write it. I just typed it up. :tongue:
Still, it took effort to write that whole thing out. So, thank you.

Just one question.

This part, "They may make up for the lesser degree of violence they wreak on the environment by generally living longer, thus possibly doing more damage in the long run to those who have the misfortune to live with them." Is a little unsettling. But honestly, what are you doing trying to mess with an old lady? You're asking for it.

I wonder how tritype and MBTI come into play with all of this.
 

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It fit me to a T except the parts where my Enneagram 3 overrides my 8w9 (8w9 is my second tritype). The discrepancies in my attitude are far worse than an average 8w9, I think. In social situations I'm almost bubbly, trying to be as pleasant as I can possibly be. In a work environment I switch on my poker face and get into 8w9 mode, powered with my Enneagram 3 motivation to succeed. I've heard from others that the change is so unsettling, you'd think I was two different people.

I wonder how it's like being a 7w6 with an 8w9 second tritype...
 

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There is a certain pleasure in being underestimated when you know that you can turn the tables at any moment.
I say this a lot.
 

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this description sounds more like me than the 7w8 description. perhaps I am an 8w9 with a 7 in my tritype? it's between 8w9 and 7w8, but I know I'm not an 8w7 =P
 

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It fit me to a T except the parts where my Enneagram 3 overrides my 8w9 (8w9 is my second tritype). The discrepancies in my attitude are far worse than an average 8w9, I think. In social situations I'm almost bubbly, trying to be as pleasant as I can possibly be. In a work environment I switch on my poker face and get into 8w9 mode, powered with my Enneagram 3 motivation to succeed. I've heard from others that the change is so unsettling, you'd think I was two different people.

I wonder how it's like being a 7w6 with an 8w9 second tritype...
it kinda sounds like your describing the adapatability of the 3 and it's desire to achieve and be sociable more than the duality of an 8w9
 
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it kinda sounds like your describing the adapatability of the 3 and it's desire to achieve and be sociable more than the duality of an 8w9
Uh, yeah, I sort of was XD Which is why I said except the parts where my Enneagram 3 overrides my 8w9...?
 

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This description IS me. I've been doing some research on enneagram, simply because I do not act like the stereotypical ENTJ in many situations. In many ways, the 8w9 description fits me just as well as (or even better than) the ENTJ one. I am not a "grab the limelight" kind of person. I definitely prefer the behind the scenes. I always want to lead, but I don't want it to always be obvious. I don't need the credit. I am sure of myself, and don't need the approval of others....

Except for those I care about. Which I'm very protective and supportive of, in my own way. I'm not overly aggressive, and absolutely LOVE when people underestimate me. I posted this in another thread, but I've said things before in situations with people who've never seen the "dominant" me that were totally unexpected. Many would never look at me the same way again. It's a great feeling, and the unassuming exterior lulls people to sleep so effectively...

B)
 

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This description IS me. I've been doing some research on enneagram, simply because I do not act like the stereotypical ENTJ in many situations. In many ways, the 8w9 description fits me just as well as (or even better than) the ENTJ one. I am not a "grab the limelight" kind of person. I definitely prefer the behind the scenes. I always want to lead, but I don't want it to always be obvious. I don't need the credit. I am sure of myself, and don't need the approval of others....

Except for those I care about. Which I'm very protective and supportive of, in my own way. I'm not overly aggressive, and absolutely LOVE when people underestimate me. I posted this in another thread, but I've said things before in situations with people who've never seen the "dominant" me that were totally unexpected. Many would never look at me the same way again. It's a great feeling, and the unassuming exterior lulls people to sleep so effectively...

B)
I think many ENTJs are actually 3s who think they're 8s.
 

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I think many ENTJs are actually 3s who think they're 8s.
I think you're right. There are a lot of 8 (perhaps even more with 8w9) behaviors that don't much match the ENTJ description. That, I think, is what causes some conflict for me at times.
 

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I think you're right. There are a lot of 8 (perhaps even more with 8w9) behaviors that don't much match the ENTJ description. That, I think, is what causes some conflict for me at times.
I'm curious which ones?

swordsman of mania said:
I think many ENTJs are actually 3s who think they're 8s.
Do mind sharing which observations led you to this conclusion?
 

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I'm curious which ones?
Sure. I'll copy a few from the original article that sound like me, but maybe not your typical ENTJ.

"They are also less self-assertive, exuding an aura of quiet strength and of power held in reserve"
ENTJs are supposed to be pretty self-assertive

"They tend to maintain a “poker face” with others, somewhat stolid and impassive, although when aroused they can suddenly become passionate and angry."
I tend not to get angry too often. Passionate I can be, though. I'm also not as "straight-up" with people as a lot of ENTJs are. That poker face is something that I use every day of my life. Keeps people even further away from that inner sanctum they referred to.

"strong-willed but mild-mannered, who tend to assert leadership more through support and protectiveness."
Some people think it's an INTJ trait, but I do tend to wait and see how current leadership does before going and taking it for myself. If current leadership is competent, I'll just eschew getting involved and support them. I tend to wind up the "de facto" leader of things, but not because I took control; it grabs me. lol

"People of this subtype usually do not seek publicity actively, and like to live quietly, privately, and unobtrusively, preferring to control their affairs from behind the scenes."
My perfect leadership position would be an advisory one. I want to be the wizened old man that the king goes to for sage advice. I don't directly run the kingdom, but if I want anything done in the kingdom, it happens. My power is not necessarily direct, it's indirect. If the king bungs it up somehow, I could then step in and lead until a suitable replacement is found.

Think Gandalf.

"There is a sly, watchful quality in average Eights with a Nine-wing."
Just doesn't sound very ENTJ-like to me. It does sound like me, though.


Now, that's not to say that I don't display other, more MBTI-expected behaviors; I do. I just don't PERFECTLY fit into the little box that is created by my 4 letters.
 

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Sure. I'll copy a few from the original article that sound like me, but maybe not your typical ENTJ......
.....
.....
......

Now, that's not to say that I don't display other, more MBTI-expected behaviors; I do. I just don't PERFECTLY fit into the little box that is created by my 4 letters.
Thanks for expounding. I see what you mean concerning unique attributes of 8w9 that don't quite line up with typical ENTJ descriptions. Great info!
 

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In reference to post #17 @Sovereign, many of the knee-jerk instinctual tendencies 8's are known for being linked to their type's ways are unlike yours. I would look into the possibility of being a 3w4
Type Watches misidentification comparison
3 vs 8: Unlike threes, eights are anything but apologetic and are comfortable with people not liking them. Eights see themselves as animalistic while threes don't.
 

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Except for those I care about. Which I'm very protective and supportive of, in my own way. I'm not overly aggressive, and absolutely LOVE when people underestimate me. I posted this in another thread, but I've said things before in situations with people who've never seen the "dominant" me that were totally unexpected. Many would never look at me the same way again. It's a great feeling, and the unassuming exterior lulls people to sleep so effectively...

B)
YES! I'm the same way. I love watching peoples' shocked reactions when they see me erupt. One time in college I was trying to study. My friends were across the hall with their door open just having a quiet chat. Some guy down the hall was being obnoxious and loud, so I stuck my head out the door and yelled with my opera voice "shut the f*** up!" He went silent, and my friends across the hall just looked at me with a more or less jaw-dropped expression, then talked to each other, "was that [dj]?"
 
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