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Discussion Starter #1
You know you always hear people talking about "beer goggles" when people become exceptionally sexually attractive because you're drunk, and I'm wondering if oxytocin has a similar affect, but in a way that is obviously healthier and more natural.

It's probably that idea that if you love someone they will be beautiful to you.

Of course, if you've been banging someone enough to even have oxytocin goggles you probably thought they were pretty damn fine to begin with...but it's like you look at them and they're just...breathtaking or something. Like WHY OH WHY.

Objectively you know they aren't model perfect, and even when you see them in some lights you see their flaws, but there's overall this kind of ...soft rosy glow...that coats your brain, and makes you see an angelically desirable person.

Thoughts?
 

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Not been my experience.
 

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I agree with this. Their personality gets things rolling and then the physical stuff just cements it. I like it - I've learned to care less and less about looks because I know I'll become very attracted to them eventually.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Not been my experience.
None of your partners has become more and more desirable to you over time?

I think the point that I realized I was in love with my ESFJ ex, for example, I realized he had that "glow" around him. It's hard to explain, but I think the ISTP I'm with I've started to see more and more in this light as well.

However, I think these "in love" feelings are chemical, and that in order for real love to cement there has to be the aspect of commitment, etc. I think I'm more skeptical because I'm older, but I think this is probably especially makes very young people act entirely irrationally. The oxytocin goggles.
 

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Yea I believe in this. When I was dating my ex I thought she was like the most beautiful person I'd ever seen. Now I look at her and she's less than average.
 
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Does oxytocin influence men and women equally?

Partners definitely grow on me over time, which be unfortunate if an infatuation occurs, it can sometimes lead to only seeing the good things about them rather than considering the negative parts too.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Does oxytocin influence men and women equally?
No, I think women on average get attached more quickly because of sex. This is why it seems to be fairly easy for men with very high levels of testosterone to have meaningless sex, even repeatedly with the same partner (the higher their testosterone is, the more their oxytocin is blocked).

HOWEVER, men who do not have this exceptionally high level of testosterone will be more affected by their oxytocin, maybe not to the same quick degree as the average woman, but in a more fair, even manner where they also can get attached.

Men also have another hormone called vasopressen.

Someone reported in another thread that it is affection and quality time spent with a partner that allows the man to build an oxytocin/vasopressin bond more and more, because his testosterone is less likely to block bonding hormones if he's spending happy times with you or cuddling with you when he doesn't have a raging testosterone filled hard-on.


Partners definitely grow on me over time, which be unfortunate if an infatuation occurs, it can sometimes lead to only seeing the good things about them rather than considering the negative parts too.
Yes that's why sexing the same person over and over again can make you less likely to decide to be with them for logical reasons.

I think it also makes it harder to leave a bad relationship, if you have a lot of time and investment in that relationship. It makes it very painful to detach.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Therefore obviously the answer is forced cuddling, ha ha ha.

Seriously though, men are more likely to "bond" immediately after sex, so getting hugs and kisses or being held after sex will help them to bond with you more. Be wary of men who jump up and run off immediately after sex, especially early in a relationship or when you don't know them very well. They're instinctively avoiding bonding. I'm sure some men do it consciously, but I think many of them may not even realize what they're doing, they're just fleeing potential emotional bonding on some subconscious level.

I think it's how it came to be that women were supposed to "withhold" even if they desired a particular man, to make him bond more and more over hugs and kisses and time spent together, to get him to pretty much already be relatively bonded before sex ever happened.
 

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That's all very interesting. Especially the avoiding physical closeness outside of sexual intercourse to reduce the level of emotional bonding part. Will have to look for studies on this!

:proud:

I'm definitely going to en-force the forced cuddling future, it just has to be done for the greater good. And who doesn't like cuddling?
 

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I guess I'm one of those high oxytocin level men then. :p There was this weird thing I got as a kid when I wanted to hold and cuddle my cat but the oxytocin rush was so strong I physically couldn't pick him up, like I couldn't grip him hard enough because of it. (At least I think that's oxytocin...though it doesn't really have anything to do with sex. I also read the cuddly, nurturing feeling you get when you see a cute child is the same chemical, which is sort of creepy...)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I guess I'm one of those high oxytocin level men then. :p There was this weird thing I got as a kid when I wanted to hold and cuddle my cat but the oxytocin rush was so strong I physically couldn't pick him up, like I couldn't grip him hard enough because of it. (At least I think that's oxytocin...though it doesn't really have anything to do with sex. I also read the cuddly, nurturing feeling you get when you see a cute child is the same chemical, which is sort of creepy...)
Yes, that's oxytocin. That rush of love and happiness when being in the presence of a particular person or pet, that high you get from being in love or having sex, from touch and from I think even a feeling of rapport with someone is oxytocin.

I felt it toward a child most strongly with my favorite nephew, and I think it's because I cared for him as if he were partly "mine" while my sister was having some severe ....personal problems. I think the fact that he shares my blood combined with the fact that I was responsible for his well-being caused me to see what a mother-child bond would probably be like. I feel fiercely protective of him and attached to him, like I'd kill anyone who laid a hand on him.

I would agree that it's definitely the same feeling that we feel when falling in love, minus any sexual feelings.

I wonder if men are more likely to mix up this feeling with sex, though, because there seem to be a larger number of men who claim to be sexually attracted to children, which I think is disgusting and don't understand.
 

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Infatuation has never stopped me from consciously knowing there are 'hotter' women around than my spouse at the given time.

Not knowing, and not caring is a difference. That stuff be bad if you didn't know.
 

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Have never gotten beer goggles but definitely get the oxytocin ones. I've found people have been surprised by who I'm attracted to, when I'm feeling like "wow they're so beautiful", and even knowing that other people don't rate them very highly doesn't change whatever it is my eyes see. It's fascinating.

Makes sense I guess... if oxytocin is all about bonding, then having an effect that makes you see someone as beautiful/glowtastic -> makes you feel a kind of awe -> makes you feel you're lucky to be with this person -> makes you more likely to engage in behaviours to keep being together and stay bonded. If there was just objective attraction-gauging then maybe we'd be flitting around a lot more.

I'm curious about how people talk as if oxytocin just makes them experience stuff, like it's program running them and they're totally helpless. I mean... I don't get cuddly love rush with hugs and close shared experiences with just any person. Well, I can't say for sure what my oxytocin is doing since I don't go around with needles all the time, but I do know that warm bondy feeling very well. That only happens with a few people. So I don't see it as oxytocin mindlessly controlling me but the oxytocin is like a seal of approval.

That's maybe what I find interesting here, which you touched on in your OP. That sure, one might get oxytocin goggles because of oxytocin, but why the oxytocin in the first place? For goggles the oxytocin ones are still very selective. As opposed to beer goggles.
 

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Happens to me a lot. On both ends. I've had girls who insisted they wanted nothing to do with me starting chasing me down because I gave them a critical mass of orgasms. And I 've found myself more attracted than I expected to someone I was comfortable with over time. Is a powerful chemical!
 

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fourtines said:
I wonder if men are more likely to mix up this feeling with sex, though, because there seem to be a larger number of men who claim to be sexually attracted to children, which I think is disgusting and don't understand.
This is really an interesting hypothesis. I think you may be right.

People get confused. Testosterone doesn't literally "block" the effects of oxytocin, it competes with them, since they tend to promote opposite types of behavior (testosterone, self-absorption/extra-punitive behavior, oxytocin, immersion in someone else). Women have significantly higher baseline levels of oxytocin, with lower levels of testosterone. So being able to tune into another person without getting wrapped up in social dominance is pretty standard for most women.

Sex is practically the only time men get a huge spike of oxytocin, plus another chemical vasopressin (which is what causes them to get jealous and possessive). The problem is not that men don't "feel" bonding - in fact you might say they're bonding even stronger and the oxytocin hit probably feels more noticeable, since their baseline is lower. The problem is that they have an extra layer of drive on top of the other one that's supposed to keep them motivated and out there providing for the person they're bonding with. They have to both immerse themselves in the bonding but keep separate enough to continue being effective in the world. Being pulled in both directions could get tricky, I'm sure.

I do think that men are likely to associate oxytocin rushes with sexuality, and that this could lead to sexualizing a bond with children. Especially in men who are otherwise oxytocin deficient, or who have trouble "bonding" with adult women for whatever reason (bad childhood experiences, etc.) The oxytocin rush some women get while nursing creates sexual arousal, so I can't see why it would be impossible for something similar to happen to men.
 

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I've actually been thinking about this a lot lately.

It's always been the case for me that I click with someone on an intellectual level and then I start to find their appearance attractive as well. I still have physical preferences, but they are practically non-existent in comparison to the kind of mental connection I need in order to be interested in someone. That's how it's worked for me with my partner as well as every other person I've had feelings for.

But lately when I look at him, I just get this really unnerving "holy crap" feeling. And it's really intense (like I just want to touch him all the time, even in completely non-sexual ways) and weirdly maternal/wifely... and look at the awkward NT trying to describe feelings. I know that I love him, but it's something more than that and I'm not sure what it is. I wonder if it might not be from how much he touches me in comparison to the other people I've been with. Seriously, all the time and in lots of non-sexual situations. Damn you, oxytocin
 
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