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Hi, I made up this term to describe something that happens to me and that I hate very much. Maybe it happens to you too.

So, introverts are seen as "shy", perhaps, because we don't initiate social things as much. And extraverts aren't shy because they are more out there and social. Paradoxical Extravert Shutout(PES) is what happens whenever I, an introvert, encounter a extravert who has a moment of "shyness" and we are unable to form a connection.

I'll describe one of my roommates for an example, but it happens in a variety of situations. She's ESFP, very kind, sociable, relatable, overall bubbly, and everyone likes her. I like her too, but we can't talk to each other. She can be talking to the other roommates about her day, and all is well and good, but when she gets to me... well, she doesn't get to me. Suddenly her skill of conversation is of no use, and we both remain speechless. We at least greet each other now, but there is no hope for holding a conversation unless other people are involved so that at least they can talk.

This example doesn't fully describe PES though. Here is another: My roommate invited a highly extraverted friend over. I was also in the room because I was doing some work. I prepared myself to greet this new person. They were obviously very sociable and energetic, so I got all powered up to match their energy for an amiable first greeting. Well, the friend glanced at me, then ignored me! Whaaaat?? You're a "friendly" sociable extravert inside my house, and you're going to ignore me?

Now maybe I'm just socially awkward—but I'm not. Maybe I look mean. Maybe my dark brown, deep, probing Fi/Ne eyes make people at a loss to communicate with me. Maybe they expect me to talk over them/rudely interrupt their conversation. Would they like me to do that? I don't know.

I just think that if we're going to call the stereotypical extravert sociable, and never shy, then they should be able to talk to the introverts in the room—especially when the introverts are making eye contact, turned in your direction, and smiling at you!

I call it Paradoxical because the extravert is outgoing and reserved at the same time. I call it a Shutout because when people can see that I want to talk to them, but they respond in the negative, it shuts me down, and I feel like the awkward one in the group that doesn't belong. PES definitely doesn't happen all the time, but it can strike at random.

Anyway, share your experience with this or with something similar. Explain the cause/origins of this behavior to shed some light on it. Bash me for being stereotypical:tongue:(come on, you know you want to!!). Do what INFPs do. Etc. I hope I at least used the concept of paradox correctly!
 

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Ooh, I'm not sure of the origins, but this happens a lot with me vs extroverts! I feel like there's something sobering about me that makes them clam up.

It's really hard to articulate, but the energy feels very competitive between us. We both have the same type of energy, but command the room in different ways. I'm more of a strong and reserved type, while the high extroverts are loud and outgoing. It's almost like we cancel each other out in a way?

I had this experience vividly with an ENTJ woman. We had many discussions within our large group (many joint activities), and on her own (away from me), she was very stereotypically an extrovert. Around me though, she dialed it back several notches, almost as if she was being submissive to me. It was...something, especially when she asked me to be on her team for some projects a few weeks later, then tried to shut me up! :rolleyes:

Maybe we're like magnets in a way? You can't push two magnets together, they'll never stick..
 
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Yes, competitiveness, as you said!! It's so strange.

When that visitor came to my house and didn't acknowledge me, I did feel a bit smug afterwards, and I made sure that I stayed in the same room to show that I wasn't going to back down. It turned into some territorial thing in my mind!

A fight for dominance, maybe? I don't buy into people or things unless I personally assess it and agree with it, but I don't feel like this is very visible to outsiders. Maybe it is, though! Maybe people can see and feel that a patiently listening INFP is also a shrewd individualist who will not take anyone's ideas without careful examination. Extraverted people can be the dominant speaker in a situation(and in your case, she was an Extraverted Thinker), but we are the dominant inner judger.

I suppose it would be rather intimidating to be talking and then see someone who looks like they have surgical tools in their eyes, ready to measure and weigh my organs! I'm sure I'd crap my pants if someone looked eager to tear me apart, and it would be worse because it would be across a foreign mental plane that my words could not seem to reach across, like the magnetic field.
 

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Yes, competitiveness, as you said!! It's so strange.

When that visitor came to my house and didn't acknowledge me, I did feel a bit smug afterwards, and I made sure that I stayed in the same room to show that I wasn't going to back down. It turned into some territorial thing in my mind!

A fight for dominance, maybe? I don't buy into people or things unless I personally assess it and agree with it, but I don't feel like this is very visible to outsiders. Maybe it is, though! Maybe people can see and feel that a patiently listening INFP is also a shrewd individualist who will not take anyone's ideas without careful examination. Extraverted people can be the dominant speaker in a situation(and in your case, she was an Extraverted Thinker), but we are the dominant inner judger.

I suppose it would be rather intimidating to be talking and then see someone who looks like they have surgical tools in their eyes, ready to measure and weigh my organs! I'm sure I'd crap my pants if someone looked eager to tear me apart, and it would be worse because it would be across a foreign mental plane that my words could not seem to reach across, like the magnetic field.
Haha, these are the thoughts that go through my mind! It becomes a mental game for me, even if the situation doesn't necessarily read as a challenge. Keeps me interested in being 'present' and not inside my head during 'social time'.

I don't know if it's a fight for dominance for me as much as showing that my quietness does not imply anything other than cool confidence. Nowadays speaking is overrated as a tool to show leadership / dominance / power, but I find there's just as much strength, if not more, in being silent and letting my actions voice my inner world. People have tested that quality of mine a lot, and I don't hesitate to let them know when they've gone too far. I'm not into petty catfights for the sake of them, and I think that ruffles a lot of the drama-seeking people in my outer circles. :tongue:
 
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Mm, I actually used to think that way as well, but not anymore.

There is definitely a distance between an extrovert and an introvert when they cannot understand one another. They strongly believe the other one is going against some sort of social rules. But I had a realization one day that approach of an introvert and an extrovert is completely different.

An introvert clams up when they are shy. When there is enough space with silence, an introvert will slowly start to speak. However, extrovert will fill in the space with words, especially if they feel awkward. They are receiving energy from every opportunity to spit out words and react. The feeling of distance between an extrovert and an introvert comes from this. An introvert smiles and looks pretty, waiting for the other to include them in the conversation. However, an extrovert sees the quiet introvert and thinks they are bored or does not like the company. An introvert continues to clam up, because no one is including them, thinking s/he is not wanted. An extrovert sees the quiet introvert again and decides the introvert is rude for not participating in the conversation and making them do all of the work in the 'interaction.'

I don't believe it's competition, but merely a misunderstanding.

What I started to do is become chattier around extroverts. You do not need to do this, but I personally think it is an easier way to get along with others. I retreat back into my quiet self whenever I have a chance by letting others speak, but I learned that knowing how to fill in silence was another skill as well. Even introverts appreciate that. You don't need to sound smart or confident. I do a ton of self-deprecating humor, and rarely serious during conversations. It's just more fun for me that way (as life, in my opinion, is to have fun), while I can create a comfortable, friendly environment.
 

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Thank you for sharing your insightful perspective, @sippingcappucino!

I will certainly give what works for you a try! I normally wait to speak until I have something clever to say, but I'll practice this skill of filling a silence—sometimes that perfect remark never comes! I think my practice filler topic of the week can be the weather—my region had some pretty scary weather yesterday, and I bet that will lead to a lot of storytelling:proud:
 

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Thank you for sharing your insightful perspective, @sippingcappucino!

I will certainly give what works for you a try! I normally wait to speak until I have something clever to say, but I'll practice this skill of filling a silence—sometimes that perfect remark never comes! I think my practice filler topic of the week can be the weather—my region had some pretty scary weather yesterday, and I bet that will lead to a lot of storytelling:proud:
I'm glad I could help. I hope you have a fun adventure ahead learning to fill space :friendly_wink::friendly_wink:

But do make sure to look for lots of introversion time too. Introverts get crabby after a long interaction with them human-beings.

Yes, it's actually pretty interesting if you start observing some extroverts. When they feel awkward but have nothing to talk about, they laugh and go "Hahahaha! Oh my god, this is awkward. I don't know what to say!" At first I thought that was directed at me and thought it as a criticism. However, they are just saying stuff out loud because they hate silence. I've realized what I have to do is be as awkward as they are and say, "Hahaha, seriously, um, yo, how about them weather today?" and let the conversation go wherever they need to go. No need to wait. Everyone is just talking over one another. No one cares what the other ones says. They spit and forget most of it.


EDIT: I hope you and your house was okay in that weather! It seems like there was a lot of rain all over!
 
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I have experiment that feeling it happens to me sometimes. I dont know the exact origin, of this but I have some thoughts to share:

- maybe your roomate build a, preconcept of you to that person, and because she knew you were introvert, she didnt know how to react. I guess would be similar like an introv doesnt know how to behave in front of extrovert, I guess the opposite also ocurrs. Extrovert tend to interact with extrovert, she might be out of her confort zone.
- Dont assume instantly that people dont like you or think you are "weird", this can be an isolated case, maybe she wasnt in the mood to talk. But Im agree with you she had to say hello at least, thats basic manners.
- You can't like to everybody and thats fine!, dont focus on that kind of people better put your attention on people that likes you, your real friends. I know is hard to accept but is better for your peace of mind.
- I have this idea while writing this. What would you think would happen if you face directly the situation with her and tell her: " hey Im cordially saying hello, you are enter my space you should show good manners, dont you think?". Ok this might sound rude but you could find softer words. Sometimes I think people treat us bad because we allow it, but we should put a stop, and we have a special card called «asertivity». I found no MBTI type cant resist to polite words, and we INFP are gifted on this part. We dont need to scream or fight to defend our believes

Greetings

Charly the rabbit
 

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Discussion Starter #9
- I have this idea while writing this. What would you think would happen if you face directly the situation with her and tell her: " hey Im cordially saying hello, you are enter my space you should show good manners, dont you think?". Ok this might sound rude but you could find softer words. Sometimes I think people treat us bad because we allow it, but we should put a stop, and we have a special card called «asertivity». I found no MBTI type cant resist to polite words, and we INFP are gifted on this part. We dont need to scream or fight to defend our believes
:laughing: I could at least speak up and say "Welcome to our home!" and then ask for their name. I agree with you that I should work on being more assertive. That might be all it takes. Thank you for sharing your ideas!
 

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I don't know what is happening here, but I am certainly plenty awkward. For me, it has to do with the fact that I have nothing to say and I'm shy, so I don't bother saying anything at all. But, I don't know if I put that expectation on others (extroverts, specifically) to carry me though.

I was at a bridal shower a few weekends ago, and let me just say, it was so painful for me. I only knew the bride to be (Extrovert) and her sister (Introvert, but in charge of the party) and sort of her sister's friend (Extrovert) - EVERYONE ELSE knew someone else. I tossed back a glass champs and tried to look friendly and comfortable. Blurting out (excuse me, mumbling) an occasionally ill-timed, "So, how do you know the bride?" Like @sippingcappucino said - increasing my chatter to at least LOOK approachable.

I could easily spot the comfy extroverts in the room, but I already know not to trust them to really help me out. They want to flit about and not be hindered by any clingy introvert, so I auto-avoid. Maybe that is what you are seeing here with your friend's friend. I'm not sure. Not enough info. My roommate (INTP) would ignore my friends because he knew he would never see them again. So, the motivation behind it could be as simple as that.

And, here's a duh statement, but common ground is also key. My roommates at one time were both extroverted females, and it was crystal clear they were more similar to each other than to me. They would chat all day long about things I could care less about, but I eventually was able to establish separate relationships with each of them - finding common ground in talking about relationships.

I find it difficult to find the common (lighthearted) ground in most social settings though.

Anyway, I'm rambling... haha.
 
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