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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So I've been typed as an INTP 5 times, ENTP once and INFJ twice by other people (online). My family also thinks I make decisions based on logic and not on feelings and if I make judgement based on feelings then based on social moral and values rather than personal ones.

HOWEVER I relate so much to INFPs to the point that I think I may be an Fi-dom (It's like a piercing doubt in my mind). I feel so close to so many fictional INFPs, understanding their struggles with their irrational, subjective and impactful feelings that just come from within, the struggles of self and life sometimes not being congruent, their strive for getting to know who they are and being themselves. Asking themselves what is important, worth aspiring. Looking outside to find what is relatable or resonates with them. Spending a lot of time with their internal feelings about life and self.

What speaks against it though is that I don't have strong opinions since I think pretty much anything is debatable and sometimes it's hard to determine which is the best option. Sometimes I also dismiss my feelings because I don't trust them (they could stem from distorted perceptions and try to deceive me). According to my family I don't display out of character behavior when under stress and I think inf Te would be observable. It also annoys me when people dismiss logic just to push their own opinion that they believe are absolute (I don't think there is anything absolute or universal in this world, I think it all depends on definitions, applied rules and perception).

I'm very confused that on one hand I seem to display very low Fi, on the other hand I feel like I use it quite a lot (It's like inside there are so many feelings but outside I'm perceived as fairly logical) I'd be very grateful if anyone could help.


If you need some more info about myself to make a judgement concerning my type, read my previous two threads:
personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/1330139-am-i-mistyped-intp-isfj-even-infj-infp-entp.html
personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/1330991-type-me-get-magic-cookie.html
 

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Check out the INFP Enneagram 9. I feel like the descriptions are often leaning towards other E-types.
Fi/Ne especially in combination with 9 sees everything at once. Every side is right and wrong at the same time. A little bit like "the eye of the universe".
The 9 is also generally not acting out crazy unless VERY stressed for a VERY long time. Inferior Te here shows more in the form of being bad at following things through, hating pressure, being slow, being relaxed, no need to be perfect. Things like that. Like a sloth! :)

Fi is also a logical function. But Fi puts more value on your feelings, emotions, values, personal story, identity... and Ti more on knowledge, structuring, understanding structures. It's more detached. Fi is more involved.
But again: the E9 wants to dissociate. It's a funny combination with a lot of internal stress unless you reach healthier levels.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Check out the INFP Enneagram 9. I feel like the descriptions are often leaning towards other E-types.
Fi/Ne especially in combination with 9 sees everything at once. Every side is right and wrong at the same time. A little bit like "the eye of the universe".
That's interesting because I'm already pretty sure I'm a Type 9.

The 9 is also generally not acting out crazy unless VERY stressed for a VERY long time. Inferior Te here shows more in the form of being bad at following things through, hating pressure, being slow, being relaxed, no need to be perfect. Things like that. Like a sloth! :)
I am that way except the need for perfection (and I can't remember really acting out). & I'm a perfectionist.

Fi is also a logical function. But Fi puts more value on your feelings, emotions, values, personal story, identity... and Ti more on knowledge, structuring, understanding structures. It's more detached. Fi is more involved.
But again: the E9 wants to dissociate. It's a funny combination with a lot of internal stress unless you reach healthier levels.
I definitely relate to the internal stress, but now I ask myself: if I really am an INFP, why have I been typed 8 times on the Ti-Fe axis and never on the Te-Fi axis? And can an Fi-dom (even type 9) come off as logic-oriented? My brother even said he thinks I have a difficult time forming values without any given logical basis. But I think I need to check out INFP Type 9, perhaps this could explain some things.
Thank you for your input!
 

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That's interesting because I'm already pretty sure I'm a Type 9.


I am that way except the need for perfection (and I can't remember really acting out). & I'm a perfectionist.


I definitely relate to the internal stress, but now I ask myself: if I really am an INFP, why have I been typed 8 times on the Ti-Fe axis and never on the Te-Fi axis? And can an Fi-dom (even type 9) come off as logic-oriented? My brother even said he thinks I have a difficult time forming values without any given logical basis. But I think I need to check out INFP Type 9, perhaps this could explain some things.
Thank you for your input!
Sure, perfectionism can be a trait for the 9w1. :)

Hmm, I'm not sure, online I get typed INFP most frequently. Followed by INTJ, INTP, ENTP... pretty much anything INXX.
I don't really know anything else you posted before, sorry. And from this thread I also can't base any functions, because you are just writing about functions and types and stuff. I can only type when people write just based on real-life stuff. Otherwise everything seems so twisted and confuses me.

My values also always have to have a logical basis. Values based on thin air seem lacking and shallow to me. As if I let a random mood determine my values, kinda like that.
Values "just because" is more something other types seem to do, in my personal experience. Values, emotions, life itself, all that stuff is of most importance to me. So yea, I use logic. Logical emotions. Emotional logic. I want to connect everything.

I even feel bad for serial killers. Because I understand their pain. Or their lack of empathy. I want to understand where everyone is coming from.
 

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So I've been typed as an INTP 5 times, ENTP once and INFJ twice by other people (online).
I know I flipped around on yours because you never really settle on anything. It's like reading a horoscope a bit. "You have a need for other people to like and admire you, and yet you tend to be critical of yourself." Like you can be both thinking and feeling but you never settle on one or the other. You can be both smart and stupid. Everyone is a mix and you mention both ends so it is hard to say decisively.

Back in your other thread I have pulled the most candid and relevant information

This time I tried to focus on my doubts and trying to fit them into the model rather than another description assessment. I also thought maybe some could read between the lines and extract information. About myself: I'm not yet 20. I study biology though I'd rather have enrolled into arts, psychology or philosophy but the job perspectives are whack(high unemployment and lack of variety) so I tried going for the most interesting STEM field (though I have a ~25-year plan that in the best case will go (very summarized) from a bio-med job, to an art education to a biology Master and then a teacher diploma). My hobbies are mostly dreaming and thinking. As well as rarely reading, creating art/stories or watching anime. I'd also be interested in much more, I don't think I could ever be bored, there's so much that I want to think, dream, create & learn. But because I lack self discipline and organization I usually just end up dreaming/thinking/YT&IG next to (barely) finishing my duties.
All the other questions are kinda hard to answer. I don't know what I'm good at. In school I had good language(literature) marks and bad chem and physics marks. I prefer to think about concepts rather reading stuff (e.g motives in literature, imaginary numbers and infinity, unconsciousness in psychology rather than physics formulas and applications.) Basically I tend to do stuff that is low effort for me.& I do things that interest me, that I enjoy.
I've been told I'm good at storytelling and arts. I suck at focusing my energy on doing what I should be doing. When I said "I'm very smart, and analytical" I used this because other people (also psychologists) told me this (and to contrast my brother telling me that I can be very dumb). I've added critical because if I wasn't wouldn't I have less troubles on settling on an opinion instead of constantly doubting myself? Though I do tend to be gullible/naive concerning interpersonal stuff, I rarely think people have ulterior motives.
In bold is you being extremely characteristic of Ni over Ne and definitely more J than P.

This I think spells you out the most.

I'm not yet 20. I study biology though I'd rather have enrolled into arts, psychology or philosophy
In the MBTI Manual you will find that this is extremely typical of NF and particularly INFJ. You have a theme of not being so happy about anything STEM related but your 3 you want to go into are all INFJ. Male clinical psychologists are frequently INFJ. Language and arts are favored by INFP as well. You seem to be more of an Ni than an Ne though, because you consistently plot things out very far ahead and mention you have a slow reaction to things.

Another thing I WISH I had that the typical ENTP seems to be a pro in is ACTUAL improvisation. I can improvise well in my head (if not under stress), but in the actual moment I’m one of the slowest to respond.

It would do you better to look more into the predictive validity part of MBTI such as how you fare in education and career than self-descriptions which could apply to anyone.
 

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Hello again AnonyM. I see this conflict often with IXFPs and IXFJs who can't decipher one amongst the other because of Fi. In my opinion, Fi is the hardest function to precisely define. To me, it's the inner self's cauldron of feelings and personal morals. Some types can easily tap into this cauldron and some can't. For EXTPs and IXTPs alike, the latter is more than likely to be true because Fi are their respective trickster and demonic functions. This means that EXTPs and IXTPs have the hardest time in connecting to how they may feel about most things. To them, Ti and its subjective logic dominates their judgments about things.

Things get a bit confusing when relating Fi to IXFJs. Fi is in the senex/witch/critical position for IXFJs. Think of Fi-critic as an old judge. On one hand, it can transform IXFJs into wise men/women of the highest integrity. On the other hand, it can descend IXFJs into meaningless contemplations, cyclical depressions, and prisons of deprecation if not appeased. Adding on to the fact that Fi is within the unconscious of IXFJs, which makes it pessimistic, the critical function by nature is also pessimistic. This makes Fi-critic doubly pessimistic, which means that it's very easy for IXFJs to descend into emotional turmoil when the Fi-critic is not paid attention to.

Relating this to Fi-dominant IXFPs, since Fi is in their ego and is their first function, Fi becomes doubly optimistic. In contrast to the IXFJ's old judge, Fi for IXFPs is the brave heart. IXFPs live life with the brave support of their super strong internal morals. They are by far the least stressed out by Fi because it is the easiest and most convenient function for them to value. In comparison, IXFJs learn to become wise through Fi, but it is still kinda stressful for them to value Fi because they value Fe far more. Fi-critic does give IXFJs more of a contemplative stint than that of Fi-dom IXFPs, but this stint can become degrading to the IXFJ if it does not prove meaningful. This contemplative degradation never happens to the Fi-dominant IXFPs because their Fi is heroic, positive to their ego, and uncritical.

I forgot to mention that unlike the IXFP, the IXFJ values Ti in a doubly optimistic fashion. So when the IXFJ undergoes emotional contemplation due to Fi-critic, Ti only intensifies the contemplation; possibly even to madness if the IXFJ isn't valuing Fe properly. To escape this madness, all the IXFJ has to do is relate to the wisdom gained from Fi(+Ti) contemplation and actively value this wisdom with Fe and Se/Ne.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Hello again! I apologize for responding so late, I really wanted to get back to you earlier. The tumblr acc you sent me wrote a lot and I couldn’t get myself to read through everything(/skimmed through it a bit) because I noticed it does not matter much if I read more I’ll keep identifying with too much. Looking at the type descriptions not one seemed obvious. In every function I saw parts of myself and aspects that do not fit. Even just looking at the «Signs that someone is NOT X dominant» not one was obvious/clear either to me. I try to have others tell me who I am, that is much clearer. I've mentioned already several times my sensory absorption is straight up terrible and I also don't have a good memory. In order to know that I use A more than B I need some sort of knowledge/info that I truly do use it more.

This means that EXTPs and IXTPs have the hardest time in connecting to how they may feel about most things.
Mmh honestly I'd say I'm like that too. I often don't really know how I feel (better: should feel) about something so I'll orient myself first about what others think and value. I have a tendency to devalue my own feelings.

Things get a bit confusing when relating Fi to IXFJs. Fi is in the senex/witch/critical position for IXFJs.
Senex Fi seems quite relatable. I think we figured out that Fi is most probably in the shadow, everything until now speaks for that. I mean aux Fe and tert Ti makes sense anyway. It's rather the dominant Ni coupled with inferior Se that I question. Especially Ni being such a insightful and predictive function. I don't see that. I mean lowkey Si is more relateable than Ni but... Si dom? That means Se opp... Like I know I put great value on certain sensory details such as aesthetics and so but I still barely know (/or am even interested in knowing) what happens outside of my mind (though I know this is crucial for growth) and I've been dispraised several times because of it.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
@Buttahfly
You sound quite similar to me but isn't what you described Fe rather than Fi?
Even though I do have this bizarre relation to Fi I doubt I’m an INFP. Especially since I’m quite flexible concerning my beliefs. I think I’m quite receptive to objective logic and values.
You mentioned you typed better when reading real-life experiences, is there any particular experience you’d like me to tell you that would facilitate your typing?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hi, The Last
Back in your other thread I have pulled the most candid and relevant information. In bold is you being extremely characteristic of Ni over Ne and definitely more J than P. This I think spells you out the most.
I do have to add that my plans are not set in stone, I need the option to adjust them. I usually have a rough one. Like the staircases in Hogwarts. You need a direction of where you want to end up and a plan which stairs you need to take, but make it very loosely since you know the probability is very high that while you are walking, some staircases will move so you need to adapt and you may even decide to visit a different place. That's how I plan. Rough plan from early on but I truly close it down only right before. In the last week I've even adapted the plan again for next year.

It would do you better to look more into the predictive validity part of MBTI such as how you fare in education and career than self-descriptions which could apply to anyone.
Mmh I don’t exactly know what kind of information you are looking for. I’ve tried providing information about myself from my perspective, from my family’s perspective, online «typers» as well as scores from online tests. Which perspective has yet to be presented?
If you mean my marks in school: I’ve been very average. It's about passing and balance. I only have a need to excel when it's something important to me. I also have a strong tendency to be last minute so my plans usually don't end up being followed through.

And I don't think I'm an INFP since the probability is low due to never being typed with Te-Fi. The question is just: Which function in which position creates my perceived distortion? I know you said just because I resonate to INFPs does not mean much but that is obviously an emerging pattern that almost all characters that I relate to are being typed as INFPs. I think this may also be a reason why I so desperately want to understand my functions. I try to be as self-aware as possible, because only when you know your weaknesses you can work on improving/fixing them.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
@Pessimissing

Actually I've read now through
"How Functions Work: Dominant Ni (INTJ/INFJ)" from mbti-notes and this does sound much like me (especially point 8). But there is still much that does not apply to me. Introverted Intuition seems to be a useful function. If I truly use that function then I do it so badly that I get zero benefits from it. I don't get sudden insights, I can't make any predictions, I have no good social ability (My sister, ESFJ or ESFP, even called me a robot and thinks I terrible at communication and I have no feeling for how to communicate properly).
I also don't see inferior Se: (mbti-notes)
Loss of normal and healthy dominant Ni functioning:

  • I feel as though my mind is murky and opaque.-> No
  • I cannot find meaningful direction or purpose. -> Yes
  • Every day feels empty but I don’t know what to do. -> No
Examples of out of character Se grip tendencies:

  • I am easily thwarted, provoked, disturbed (so I avoid). -> No
  • I can’t help feeling impatient, implacable, or nonexistent. -> Yes
  • I am more unfocused, clumsy, accident/error prone. -> Yes
  • I am quite bothered by sensory/aesthetic “imperfections” or changes. -> No
  • I exert physical forms of control (e.g. clean, organize, exercise, etc). -> Not at all. (I'd say even opposite)
  • I restlessly seek “facts” to justify my impulsive/extreme behavior.-> No
  • I seek out excitement but always end up apathetic/dissatisfied. -> No
  • I overindulge unhealthy sensory pleasures (to address inner emptiness). -> Yes
  • I often regret wasting too much time (obsessing) on trivial things. -> Yes
That's more No than Yes (Either I never enter the inferior, or I'm prob not inferior Se)

I remember you wrote paralysis has sth to do with Ni dominance. But wouldn't this fit better to an Se dom? Isn't inferior Se the opposite of paralysis, inner restlessness and immobility?

I think as a child I was mainly using Ne (or Se). Could it be that I’m an Se/Ne dom, but during puberty I repressed it and started using the inferior and kept on using it which would leave to me constantly using a function I can’t use well?


In the previous thread you said I appear to be a healthy INFJ. Whatever type I am, I doubt I'm a healthy version. I barely see any benefits. I really hope this is not how it's all supposed to function or else I'm kinda screwed.
 

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Any time you get pinned on anything you say you have to have the opposite so I guess you just won't be typed.
 

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Mmh honestly I'd say I'm like that too. I often don't really know how I feel (better: should feel) about something so I'll orient myself first about what others think and value. I have a tendency to devalue my own feelings.
Yeah that kinda seems like Fe.
It's rather the dominant Ni coupled with inferior Se that I question. Especially Ni being such a insightful and predictive function.
Ni is probably not necessarily very insightful for someone as young as you are. I don't know where the "Ni is about predictions" concept came from; it's never made sense to me. Ni is a Perceiving function (inward-directed Intuition), and making predictions is more of Judging thing it seems to me.

On the other hand, I think the self-reflective nature of Ni can cause a person to relate to INFPs. And other things you've said in this thread seem Fe to me, so INFJ is my guess.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Any time you get pinned on anything you say you have to have the opposite so I guess you just won't be typed.
It's not like I do this deliberately to confuse you or play with you. I'm sincerely concerned about my type. And it is how I argue that if you present me with a side that I present you all my doubts to it and everything that does not fit. Or else I could just say I'm any of the proposed types because for each there's a possible story that I could create that would fit me if I cherry pick the information.
To me this typing is like solving a mental puzzle and I get irritated if not all pieces fit perfectly - as they probably should. For example: I feel strongly to barely about Ni (depending which definition) but I don't see how my Ni is interacting with my Se while I see it very clearly on the Ne-Si axis. It's much easier for myself to see myself using Ne-Si than Ni-Se.
It's like a game that I got myself into. If it works out for so many people, why shouldn't it work out for me?
But you're probably right and I got caught too much into it and am running now in a cycle. I'll still be grateful for any replies on my threads but it's probably better to retreat and leave it or approach it alone from a less serious/compulsive point of view.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Ni is probably not necessarily very insightful for someone as young as you are. I don't know where the "Ni is about predictions" concept came from; it's never made sense to me. Ni is a Perceiving function (inward-directed Intuition), and making predictions is more of Judging thing it seems to me.
On the other hand, I think the self-reflective nature of Ni can cause a person to relate to INFPs. And other things you've said in this thread seem Fe to me, so INFJ is my guess.
Mmh that would make sense. From all the functions I think Ni is the hardest for me to understand and I really question if I'm actually using it rather than Ne. I'm also still unsure on how much I really "intuit". The INFJ does strike me as having certain overlaps but it still doesn't quite quite 1+1=2 to me. But thanx for your input.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I forgot to mention that unlike the IXFP, the IXFJ values Ti in a doubly optimistic fashion. So when the IXFJ undergoes emotional contemplation due to Fi-critic, Ti only intensifies the contemplation; possibly even to madness if the IXFJ isn't valuing Fe properly. To escape this madness, all the IXFJ has to do is relate to the wisdom gained from Fi(+Ti) contemplation and actively value this wisdom with Fe and Se/Ne.
Could you show me an example of this process? I have an idea of it but I'm not sure if we're thinking about the same. It's much easier for me to understand sth via direct examples ( I think so?). And thank you for sharing what you know I appreciate your knowledge very much.
 

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Could you show me an example of this process? I have an idea of it but I'm not sure if we're thinking about the same. It's much easier for me to understand sth via direct examples ( I think so?). And thank you for sharing what you know I appreciate your knowledge very much.
While I'm past the stage of emotional contemplation, I was still a prime example of what I posted. So stereotypically, I was an extreme perfectionist. When moments in life didn't either come to my high standards or my high ideals, my subconscious Fi-critic would judge me in unrelenting amounts. These judgments would force me to brood on the causes of my failures, which spurred on Ti-child to loop causations to no helpful avail. The thoughts would go like this: "I failed because of this and then this" "But I still failed, so I'm utter trash. Why would I try again, when I'll just crack and fail horribly" "But you only failed due to this and then this". Ti and Fi would loop over and over again and form arrogance, self-deprecation, and emotional contemplations that decided either extreme. I've only recently gained a sense of self respect, and that would be due to the holistic support that I've been given by everybody present in my life, good and bad. This noticed support has opened my eyes and made me realize that my emotional contemplations will never help the progression of man. I have realized that I must be emotionally strong in order to progress man like man has progressed me.
 

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Two more cents: I'd say INFJ. Read more on Ni. That would be the best way to learn more about your type.
 

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@Buttahfly
You sound quite similar to me but isn't what you described Fe rather than Fi?
Even though I do have this bizarre relation to Fi I doubt I’m an INFP. Especially since I’m quite flexible concerning my beliefs. I think I’m quite receptive to objective logic and values.
You mentioned you typed better when reading real-life experiences, is there any particular experience you’d like me to tell you that would facilitate your typing?
Sorry, for some reason I never saw this notification.
Fe is concerned about group harmony, Fi is concerned about the individual. That's why Fi in general feels more empathy towards the underdog. Fe can be more scared of underdogs, if they seem dangerous to the group harmony.

As an Enneagram 9 INFP I am deeply concerned about figuring out who I am in this world and what I want. At the same time I logically and emotionally value every point of view there is and because of my high empathy and the tendency of 9s to want to connect to others it's almost impossible for me to take sides.

But yea, after re-reading what you wrote I don't think that's what you are talking about, but maybe it can help you as a reference point.
 
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