Personality Cafe banner

41 - 60 of 86 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,865 Posts
@lenabelle

staff tries to be vigilant about removing/infracting instances of typism, but its a large forum and we don't see each instance every time.

i'll agree that there are some unflattering stereotypes about types (and some types more than others) that are casually tossed around in online mbti culture. there are types that are stereotyped as more "intelligent" (even though there are clear cases of individuals of that type not even being very intelligent).

intellectualism is valued in online mbti communities for various reasons: its the internet and everyone has an opinion and thinks they're a genius, plus mbti is theoretical and involves abstract thinking. because of the stereotypes of some types being more 'intelligent,' other types will sometimes be the butt of a joke, marginalized, or at worst, you have really ignorant people with a chip on their shoulder looking for a 'type' to blame for their troubles (for example someone whos socially awkward in the workplace resents a person who has it easier, and their ego gets wrapped up in this whole "well i may not be charming like you but i'm a supergeniusmastermind and mbti validates me with these four letters." probably not, but thats what the ego needs to believe.)

i do wish it was easier to educate people on what typology -actually- explains. just because a person has a preference for Fe doesn't mean they can't use their Ti well, they're just more focused, more often on the Fe emotional atmosphere for example. They can also use their Ne, they're just, again, primarily focused on whatever their leading functions draws them toward. there is more going on in there than "sf" "nf" "nt" "sp." we are different combinations of all the functions, and i believe that it takes all the types to play different roles, in order for a society to work. if we had just a society of all "superevilgeniusmastermind introverts" then we would be more limited as a whole.

typology has nothing to do with actual intelligence, and even if some types have an inclination to focus on intellectualism, you will still find that some of them simply aren't that smart to begin with - no matter what their lineup of functions. type is not what you do, but how you do it, and its not how well you do it, either.

anyway, i do see what you're saying, but all we can really do about it is try to educate others on what typology really explains, and handle offensive posts where they say something ignorant about a type.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,550 Posts
When I first came onto PerCafe, I was surprised by how few ESFJs there are on this site. Now that I've been a regular user for over a year, I think I understand why. I've never seen one type get so much unwarranted hate around PerCafe (the ESTJs are a close second). The few times I stumble onto the NT forums, I always end up in an argument with some a**hole who's convinced that ESFJs are the spawn of Satan. Considering ESFJs make up a significant part of the population (particularly the female population), it just makes me shake my head that these people probably know a lot of ESFJs that they like and just don't realize are ESFJs, but they instead choose to focus on the obviously unhealthy ESFJs who are easiest to spot. Even on this forum, the threads about why everyone dislikes ESFJs and the thread about why everyone thinks ESFJs are stupid are immensely popular. I really appreciate when people come here to ask questions instead of just leaving a rant about how they hate their mother/grandmother/aunt.

I guess the point of this rant is, I find that I'm starting to avoid PerCafe more and more, and when I do go on, I usually come away annoyed with the internet. I think I'm pretty close to giving it up entirely. Any other ESFJs feel this way?
Im not ESFJ but i have felt this way before, i hate getting sucked into debates by people making incorrect assumptions about me and then for some unhealthy reason i always want to stick up for myself, but its pointless, they're idiots if they are assuming all of one type are one way. You are welcome to come to the ISFJ subforum, most people there are generally nice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts
To be an ESFJ in these forums without being able to take a lot of crap for being part of the oppressive majority is silly. You are going to be insulted and made to feel like the bad person.
This is nonsense. Everyone has a responsibility to be respectful toward everyone else. You are responsible for how you treat other people, and you can't treat the sensor bashing on the internet like it's some natural phenomena resulting from how "oppressed" we are in real life. Unfortunately, a lot of people come here to complain about how other people don't understand them, instead of trying to understand other people. You are just as responsible for learning about and respecting SJs as they are to do the same for you.


Frankly, we need folks like lenabelle and others in the S-type forums, and especially in the ESFJ, ISFJ, and ESFP forums. They are thin enough as it is, and if you guys leave, PerC will become a total iNtuitive circlejerk. Then a Lord of the Flies scenario will ensue between the NTs and NFs. They will turn on each other, break into separate camps, kill the kid with the conch shell trying to keep the peace, and then the NTs will set the island on fire and hunt down and kill and cannibalize the NFs until the last NF survivor stumbles onto the beach and is saved by the British Navy. Don't let that happen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,550 Posts
Bo-hoo, poor you.

Seeing as there are so few ESFJs around, i'll reply with a response you probably don't even want.

There are more ESFJs than there are NTs at all. You may not be the spawn of satan, i certainly know ESFJs i appriciate, but still you have to understand that being a young NT in a SJ world can be pretty fucking rough. You're part of the oppressive majority. Hell, i'm 25 and just yesterday i had an IRL conversation with an INFJ and an INTJ hating on sensors in general. You guys drive intuitives fucking insane, and you infest the whole world. I'm not saying that you are bad people but you ARE different from intuitives, or rather intuitives are different from you, and that is not always easy on an intuitive, especially not the young ones. Hell, we go around feeling like UFOs most of the time. ;)
so you are a minority trying to oppress the majority? hows that goin for ya? I think it would be a million times more productive to just say "dear ESFJs (or all sensors) its rough being an NT, heres what would make us happier: " then list some things (without insulting) that would make your life easier. NTs can come off as entitled when they insult sensors.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts
@Promethea , Oh man, reading your post and then looking at your avatar made me laugh really hard. :laughing:
 

·
Sweet Matrimony.
Joined
·
7,160 Posts
Frankly, we need folks like lenabelle and others in the S-type forums, and especially in the ESFJ, ISFJ, and ESFP forums. They are thin enough as it is, and if you guys leave, PerC will become a total iNtuitive circlejerk. Then a Lord of the Flies scenario will ensue between the NTs and NFs. They will turn on each other, break into separate camps, kill the kid with the conch shell trying to keep the peace, and then the NTs will set the island on fire and hunt down and kill and cannibalize the NFs until the last NF survivor stumbles onto the beach and is saved by the British Navy. Don't let that happen.
I will fight tooth and nail to be that NF.

Bring it NT's.

To OP: Just ignore the haterz, a lot of people also come on here to escape the real world and vent in doing so they take out their frustrations on certain members or whole types. There's not a lot you can do about that unfortunately, but my experience of PerC became a lot more positive when I focused my energy on maintaining and creating happy friendships :)

Some fights just aren't worth having.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,475 Posts
Please don't let those ignorant venting teenagers get to you. I mean, I too get annoyed sometimes by the SJ prejudice of some around here, but the more people assume, the less they know. Heck all those weird stereotypes SJs get make me sometimes doubt my type but I'm really Si-Fe.

And what is this oppressing thing? I never oppressed anyone... Hitler on the otherhand did, as did Stalin, Mao and so is Kim Jong-un doing right now. Unless you bother me, I will not bother you. Dead simple. Live and let live.

My mom is an ESFJ (yes an actual ESFJ and not just because she has a 'nurture role' in my life) and she's a really wonderful sweet lady. And she's so tolerant of other people's bs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
I frankly don't like the hate SJs have to experience on here. My sister is a ESFJ and she is a really nice person. I know, I know, N and S don't understand eachother too well but I don't see a reason to start a war over our differences.
 

·
[dis]illusioned
Joined
·
3,578 Posts
@Promethea Do you think the Keirsey classifications tend to do more harm than good in terms of educating people about typology?

I've noticed several members (some of them MOTM) express their dislike of having the forum divided by NT, NF, SJ, SP because it seems to reinforce bad stereotypes (i.e., "NTs are geniuses" "SJs are boring"). I think PerC does a good job of giving each typology theory its own space for discussion, but I feel like Keirsey's presence is more imposing than it should be—but then again, I'm biased because I don't really give Keirsey much credit.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,865 Posts
@Promethea Do you think the Keirsey classifications tend to do more harm than good in terms of educating people about typology?

I've noticed several members (some of them MOTM) express their dislike of having the forum divided by NT, NF, SJ, SP because it seems to reinforce bad stereotypes (i.e., "NTs are geniuses" "SJs are boring"). I think PerC does a good job of giving each typology theory its own space for discussion, but I feel like Keirsey's presence is more imposing than it should be—but then again, I'm biased because I don't really give Keirsey much credit.
yeah, i don't think the keirsey classifications are worth a damn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
When I first came onto PerCafe, I was surprised by how few ESFJs there are on this site. Now that I've been a regular user for over a year, I think I understand why. I've never seen one type get so much unwarranted hate around PerCafe (the ESTJs are a close second). The few times I stumble onto the NT forums, I always end up in an argument with some a**hole who's convinced that ESFJs are the spawn of Satan. Considering ESFJs make up a significant part of the population (particularly the female population), it just makes me shake my head that these people probably know a lot of ESFJs that they like and just don't realize are ESFJs, but they instead choose to focus on the obviously unhealthy ESFJs who are easiest to spot. Even on this forum, the threads about why everyone dislikes ESFJs and the thread about why everyone thinks ESFJs are stupid are immensely popular. I really appreciate when people come here to ask questions instead of just leaving a rant about how they hate their mother/grandmother/aunt.

I guess the point of this rant is, I find that I'm starting to avoid PerCafe more and more, and when I do go on, I usually come away annoyed with the internet. I think I'm pretty close to giving it up entirely. Any other ESFJs feel this way?
I can sympathize, lenabelle. I believe I first found this site through searching for information about ESFJs, and then becoming more and more shocked and saddened that the other types seemed to hate our type so much. However, I've found that the information I've been able to glean about other types and people in general makes me keep coming back for more, so much so I finally got myself an account to be able to join in. It's so nice to find other ESFJs on the internet, too, even if we're in the minority here. You all make me feel like I've found my people! :proud: Don't let the haters get you down, girl! (As an aside, I would just like to add that I adore your icon. It always makes me feel happier whenever I see it. :kitteh:)

Best wishes,
Butterfly
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
930 Posts
Speaking of the temperments, I prefer classifying by communication style:-

ESFP, ENFP, ENTP, ESFJ are all fun loving , people centric extroverts for example.
ESTJ, ESTP, ENFJ, ESTJ are the more ordered, task centred extroverts
INTP, INFP, ISFP and ISFJ are the people centred introverts
INTJ, ISTJ, INFJ and ISTP are the task centred introverts.

Just my two cents, it stops generalisations based on two letters of your type >.< there are tons of flaws here to but still xD
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
264 Posts
I don't feel wronged in particular, i just sympathize with the people who do... The point being that what you are experiencing is not very far from what many intuitives experience in real life. I am not saying woe be me, poor me poor me i'm an intuitive and the world is mean towards me. I am trying to make you see that what you experience here is what the people ragging on you experience in real life.
This is your brain on typology. When you split people into 16 different categories, certain categories are liable to dislike others. The possibility of the boogeymen in your life being ESFJ is almost entirely irrelevant. In real life, typology is not going to stop anyone from ridiculing you for being an outcast if they have that kind of a temperament. This is standard human psychology. It is their disposition that causes them to bully or ridicule you. Not their MBTI type.

But one problem you do not have is that particular kind of alienation that many younger ( and older for that matter ) intuitives feel in a heavily SJ society.
Society as a whole is not condemning Ns. Usually it's a select group of people with a bad temperament who make a deal out of someone being an outcast. Yelling at ESFJs on the internet is not going to change the reality of this. The majority of ESFJs are not bullies. This applies to all categories. Deal with it. There is no one type to blame for all of your asspain and butthurt in life.

This is just fact. And no i do not feel that an eye for an eye is a good policy, but it is FACT. That is how many people are going to behave... Here sensors are the weird ones, and the intuitives are the norm. Obviously it would be great if everybody could just leave their IRL experiences with sensors and be all even minded.
And yet you claim to 'sympathize' with the idiotic people who try to get revenge on certain people in real life by criticizing other people on the internet. It doesn't need to be how people behave on this site. If so many people didn't defend it and claim to 'sympathize' with it, this wouldn't be as big of a problem as it is. It would be great if type wars stopped. Defending it won't make that possibility any more likely.

But you see that is not going to happen. It might not be a good excuse, but it is fact. Denying fact just because it is not smart or makes no sense is just being delusional. You can't expect other people to live up to your high standards, because they never will.
Stating that it is a fact doesn't disregard the fact that PerC could easily change this behavior by condemning it. Some people are going to dislike certain types so long as types exist, but that doesn't mean we have to encourage the filth by allowing it or sympathizing with it. The people on PerC are not the boogeymen of your childhood. Don't get angry at them because they might be a type that ridiculed you at some point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
930 Posts
"Oppressive majority." Oi. Can we not talk like sensors have institutional, systematic power and bigotry over intuitives? It's a type theory with arbitrary divisions.

@rawrmosher I'm not people-centered? :crying:
Like I said, not exactly accurate :p It just gets rid of the stupid idea that 'all SJ's are boring', and the ESFJ's I know are always seem fun.

And I think you'd be more people-centric than an ESTJ, no? :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
Speaking of the temperments, I prefer classifying by communication style:-

ESFP, ENFP, ENTP, ESFJ are all fun loving , people centric extroverts for example.
ESTJ, ESTP, ENFJ, ESTJ are the more ordered, task centred extroverts
INTP, INFP, ISFP and ISFJ are the people centred introverts
INTJ, ISTJ, INFJ and ISTP are the task centred introverts.

Just my two cents, it stops generalisations based on two letters of your type >.< there are tons of flaws here to but still xD
I like this, but then, I'm generally interested in communication.

To Lenabelle (sorry if I misspelled that, I'm still getting used to around here): I personally try to see people as they are. Even though irl I tend to say "I don't like people" (only to my friends who laugh when I say it), I really do like people. I'm fascinated by how alike a group can be and all individually unique at the same time.

So, I hope you find some comfort in this forum as I have.

Friends. (Until you cross me and then "Off with your head!") (Sorry, joking here, in a way)

:)
 

·
Auntie Duckie
Joined
·
2,720 Posts
@Praelatus, one small point here...

The people on PerC are not the boogeymen of your childhood.
There's no way of making that guarantee. You never know who you will meet on PerC, or their past. A bit of cynicism is a good thing when you participate in internet discussion boards.

That might be a little off-track, but I thought it was important enough to mention. My "esfj/9w8 protector mode" coming out :kitteh:



-ZDD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
218 Posts
"Oppressive majority." Oi. Can we not talk like sensors have institutional, systematic power and bigotry over intuitives? It's a type theory with arbitrary divisions.

@rawrmosher I'm not people-centered? :crying:
It's a bit sad that this thread exists in the first place. The thing with some of these anti-xx-type rants is that there seems to be an implicit argument that "my type would do it better!" when, in reality, the main source of discord is ignorance which is a universal human trait. Typology can only take you so far.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
264 Posts
There's no way of making that guarantee. You never know who you will meet on PerC, or their past.
It's exceedingly unlikely you'll ever meet anyone you've ever seen or known on PerC. If you mean that they might actually have been bullies at some point - judge them on how they act, not how they might have acted at a younger age.
 
41 - 60 of 86 Posts
Top