Personality Cafe banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi to all

When I was a child (7-12) I was a great speaker and performer. I was also a arbiter. I never teased enyone and wanted that everyone would get along with each other. Atleast this is the written proof in my school testimonys at that time and this is also how I remember it. I would say that I was more of an type 2 or type 9 when I was a child than I was 8. When I did get older I had couple of bad experiences when performing to audience and I started to hate it. In fact I started to hate everything and only thing that mattered was money, which I didn't have. I was a very unhealthy 8 who drank too much, smoked too much, ate too much and was willing to do drugs but I wouldnt becouse I didnt have the chance.

Performing badly wasnt the only reason that made me anxious towards life. My father is also an type 8 and we had our fights. Ages between 13 and 20+ we fought almost always when we saw. He was always challengin me even if I didn't give any reason. My existence was enough. So I had to press down my real personality and use other methods to express myself, but that made me unhealthy.

Now i've made some major progress across the years: dozens of self-help books, years of therapy, but one thing has remained: I feel anxious when performing to audience. I know that this isn't me. It is holding me back. Is here any eights that has gone through the same?

Through the years I've learned to defend myself again, to be more aggressive and just. I found that even when I am aggressive it doesnt mean that I'm doing something wrong, it feels natural in a way and I'm reliefed that I can allow myself be what my personality is. This is a point where I want to add that I believe that personality isn't something what we are. It is something we have.

I would most appriciate any advice you come in mind. Thank you.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,257 Posts
Your post sounds like a counter phobic 6. I had a similar experience growing up where I put all of this energy into auditioning for an orchestra festival and was 1 chair away from progressing to the next level.

An eight wouldn't care and keep up with it. Not all 6s would do this, but I said screw it and didn't continue forward with it (even though I had been playing for 11 years).

Read up on the differences between 6s and 8s. You should similar to myself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Type six sounded familiar too.. I maded a test when I was in therapy and they convinced that I was eight.. I tought that I was 2, in fact I was sure of it. Now I think I don't, once again, know what my type is :p Could someone point me to the right direction? I don't really know where to start. I read the differences between 6 and 8 and it made me doubt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Well I did the test again.. I can relate to the aggressive sides of six, but I don't feel I need to worry all the time.

Where ever I read about the type 8 there is a sort of dogma that says that type 8 will crush you and kill you and dominate you if you stand in hes/her way. What if there is two type 8's, who will win? Not both of them. I sure have fears but they wont stop me, as does sixes too. How about the unhealthy part that if 8 has been abused in childhood, doesnt the fear grow and stay as a trauma?

I read the type 6 description to my girlfriend, she said it was less than 50% right, then I read the type 8 description and she said it descriped me as I am. I think I am type 8 with some unhealthy features still on :/ How to be sure? Or do I have to be...
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,025 Posts
Well I did the test again.. I can relate to the aggressive sides of six, but I don't feel I need to worry all the time.

Where ever I read about the type 8 there is a sort of dogma that says that type 8 will crush you and kill you and dominate you if you stand in hes/her way. What if there is two type 8's, who will win? Not both of them. I sure have fears but they wont stop me, as does sixes too. How about the unhealthy part that if 8 has been abused in childhood, doesnt the fear grow and stay as a trauma?

I read the type 6 description to my girlfriend, she said it was less than 50% right, then I read the type 8 description and she said it descriped me as I am. I think I am type 8 with some unhealthy features still on :/ How to be sure? Or do I...
You might just be a counterphobic six; they look rather similar to eights, except for the fact that their motivations and congruency with their overall desire is different.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,865 Posts
Where do I find the description for counterphobic six?
There are many different ones, most of them are horribly written and only focus on phobic 6. I score 8 on every test -- ever -- every time, no matter what. 8 profiles always seemed just fine enough to convince me it wasn't wrong, but after actually understanding enneagram, I realized I was a cp6. I didn't absolutely hate tom condons profile for 6:

Sixes

People who anticipate the world's dangers. When healthy they are often courageous, loyal and effective or cowardly, masochistic and paranoid.

Six is the most explicitly fearful style in the Enneagram. People with this orientation are especially aware of life's dangers and wary of the hazards that may lurk beneath everyday appearances.
There are two types of Sixes: phobic and counterphobic. Their reactions to being fearful are so different that outwardly they can appear to be different Enneagram styles. When phobic Sixes sense danger, they lie low. They may act cautious, compliant or ambivalent in order to avoid potential attack. When counterphobic Sixes sense danger, they often deliberately provoke it by acting outspoken and aggressive, wanting to handle trouble before it handles them. Phobic Sixes can be charming, modest and meek while counterphobics can seem tough, challenging and punchy. Some Sixes are absolutely phobic or counterphobic, but most exist along a continuum where they are more one than the other.

Healthy phobic Sixes are steady, loyal and idealistic. They are dutiful, but in a voluntary, dedicated way. They are usually committed to a group, tradition or cause beyond themselves. They fulfill their promises, work hard and are honorable, protective friends.
Healthy phobic Sixes are often gracious and diplomatic. They put people at ease and are well liked for their discretion and manners. Often they are very funny and have vivid imaginations. Healthy Sixes handle power with integrity and may be fair-minded leaders because they sympathize with underdogs. They can affirm their personal value but also want others in their chosen group to get recognition. Theyre not pushovers and they will take unpopular stands when necessary. Generally, however, healthy Sixes work towards solutions that benefit the group and allow everyone to win.
When less healthy, phobic Sixes can become more blindly dutiful even as they assume less personal responsibility. They might subtly shift their power onto an outside authority and begin to romanticize those who seem surer of themselves. The Six strikes an unconscious bargain with his hero, a bargain that says, I'll do what you want me to do if you'll protect me from danger. The Six then hides under an imaginary umbrella, pledging fealty to this outside force, growing addicted to the security that this arrangement seems to offer. The healthy Six capacity for deep loyalty is double-edged when less healthy, Sixes are often loyal to the wrong person.
When they give away their power, phobic Sixes start to chronically worry and feel consciously helpless. To compensate, they become cautious and wary, trying to anticipate the motives of others. They may also try to check their own aggressive or powerful impulses, so that they don't deviate from the submissive role they have agreed to play. They could have trouble finishing what they start as they worry about who will criticize the finished product. They may seem friendly, but can be passive-aggressive or give off contradictory messages as their anger breaks through. Phobic Sixes can also be nervous, hesitant, skeptical, tense, indecisive and attached to victimhood.
When deeply unhealthy, phobic Sixes become addled with fear and openly dependent upon others. They might surrender their life to work, becoming an abject slave to a job or a boss. They could act like weak, powerless losers and yet demand coddling from friends, tyrannizing others with their helplessness, placing strict, narrow limits on what they will risk or try.
Very unhealthy phobic Sixes avoid challenges, chronically catastrophize, and may persecute others who deviate from norms. They can also be cowardly, legalistic, petty, intolerant, melodramatic and dogmatic.

When healthy, counterphobic Sixes are often courageous, willing to take a tiger by the tail and yank. They can be physically adventuresome, highly skilled and have a real gusto for living. If they participate in a tradition, it is usually in the role of constructive gadfly. Their underlying mission is to serve the tradition by stirring it up. They consider themselves team players who offer useful alternatives, using the old as a springboard to the new. To this end, they may be energetic, honest, assertive, and have many good ideas.
If a healthy counterphobic Six is not serving a tradition, he or she is often creative and original. The Sixes ability to look past appearances and to question assumptions leads them deeper into a unique point of view. Artistic expression is attractive as a core assertion of their power and as a way to resolve a general sense of alienation.
Less healthy counterphobic Sixes often have an edgy, restless quality. Some channel their energies into physical activity; they enjoy sports and tend to be more openly competitive than phobic Sixes. Counterphobics tend to hide their insecurities with cool or tough masks. The point of physical challenge is to expel fear by facing danger. Instead of being passively afraid, they take risks, call up fear, and then beat it. If phobic Sixes are addicted to security, then counterphobic Sixes are addicted to insecurity.
Counterphobic Sixes are often defiant or rebellious towards authority and habitually find counterexamples to whatever others assert. Despite this attitude, counterphobics are often loyal, hard-driven workers and highly idealistic. They may feel more acutely that the world is unfairly biased against them; some Sixes have a ranting quality, especially when they talk about governments and power structures. Many counterphobics are wryly funny and good at satire. When insecure, however, their humor can bite and sting.
When deeply unhealthy, counterphobic Sixes can be aggressive, unstable and senselessly contentious. To quell their inner fears, they take action compulsively and are prone to making bad decisions. They can also be fruitlessly hyperactive, as well as paranoid, accusative, belligerent and vengeful. Some counterphobics prize their hatreds and can be aggressively unlikable or even dangerous. When inflamed they can adopt a vigilante-like mentality. Deeply unhealthy counterphobics generally act much worse than the authorities they accuse of abusing power.



FAMOUS SIXES
PHOBIC: Actor Jason Alexander, Woody Allen, Kim Basinger, Candice Bergen, Albert Brooks, Actress Lynda Carter, Stockard Channing, Ellen DeGeneres, Julie Delpy, Teri Garr, Cartoonist Cathy Guisewite, Actor Ed Harris, Philosopher J. Krishnamurti, Jack Lemmon, Comedian Richard Lewis, Actress/director Penny Marshall, Marilyn Monroe, Mary Tyler Moore, Bob Newhart, Richard Nixon, Anthony Perkins, Director Sydney Pollack, Paul Reiser, Pat Robertson, Meg Ryan, Carly Simon, Suzanne Somers, Bruce Springsteen, Meg Tilly, Beach Boy Brian Wilson.

COUNTERPHOBIC: Ellen Barkin, Photographer Peter Beard, Warren Beatty, U.S. Politician Jerry Brown, George Bush, Sr., Comedian George Carlin, Actress Judy Davis, Sally Field, Carrie Fisher, Mel Gibson, Gene Hackman, Adolf Hitler, J. Edgar Hoover, Dustin Hoffman, Tommy Lee Jones, Wynona Judd, Director Spike Lee, David Letterman, Gordon Liddy, Charles Manson, Steve McQueen, Filmmaker Michael Moore, Paul Newman, Actress Lena Olin, Lee Harvey Oswald, Actress Rosie Perez, Richard Pryor, Robert Redford, U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno, Julia Roberts, Steven Seagal, James Spader, Patrick Swayze, Ted Turner, Actress Sean Young, Russian extremist Vladimir Zhirinovsky.

http://thechangeworks.com/ennprimer/enn9styls2.html
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,257 Posts
The fact you said "Performance anxiety" in the title thread and that you're unsure is the most surefire assumption I can give that you're a 6.

A side story for you, I've been pitching an "imaginary" idea for a business to a few alumni of my school. The business is a mobile cable TV app in China. I've pitched to a VC and a CEO of a tech start up.

I mentioned to the class how nervous I get before I do it. Every one was baffled because of the way I project my voice and talk. My advisor is the teacher and he knows how unsure of myself I am, and constantly reminds me that my pessimism on success/failure is my biggest motivation killer.

Read some of the articles in the 6 forum and see if it
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
17,781 Posts
Type six sounded familiar too.. I maded a test when I was in therapy and they convinced that I was eight.. I tought that I was 2, in fact I was sure of it. Now I think I don't, once again, know what my type is :p Could someone point me to the right direction? I don't really know where to start. I read the differences between 6 and 8 and it made me doubt.
I was gonna say, your post sounded pretty 2-ish and a male 8 mistyping as a 2 o_O I suppose it's possible, but it doesn't sound very likely. from your post you sound much more like a 2 or a 3w2 than either a 6 or an 8
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
17,781 Posts
The fact you said "Performance anxiety" in the title thread and that you're unsure is the most surefire assumption I can give that you're a 6.

A side story for you, I've been pitching an "imaginary" idea for a business to a few alumni of my school. The business is a mobile cable TV app in China. I've pitched to a VC and a CEO of a tech start up.

I mentioned to the class how nervous I get before I do it. Every one was baffled because of the way I project my voice and talk. My advisor is the teacher and he knows how unsure of myself I am, and constantly reminds me that my pessimism on success/failure is my biggest motivation killer.

Read some of the articles in the 6 forum and see if it
Performance anxiety =/= 6. lots of people of different types get performance anxiety or have had it in the past.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
The fact you said "Performance anxiety" in the title thread and that you're unsure is the most surefire assumption I can give that you're a 6.
Why?

I just cant relate so much for a six that I can to an eight. I need to investigate more.. still, even when I've read 2-3 descriptions of 6 I can't relate to them. Don't really know. What I came across is that eights tend to have more difficulty with self exploration and this part fits now :p but well.. I don't know. I'm very impatient and this reminds me of that :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,299 Posts
Best thing to do is get your hands on a quality book and look at the core motivations, desires, and fears of each type to determine which one you relate to. Also, if you relate to the ugly dark descriptions of that type then it probably is a correct typing. In other words, if it seems to you that the information is exposing your deepest darkest fears then you probably are on to something.

In my opinion, you can't go by the tests. I think it really requires some deep introspection of self and being very, very honest about your fears that drive you whether it be conscious and/or unconscious. Also, in my opinion, trying to do it by matching your behavior to behavioral descriptions provided on the internet can lead to faulty typing.

I agree with SOM, any type can experience performance anxiety. However, as an eight this statement struck me as odd. Not that all eights are alike but from my personal experiences it struck me as odd. More details below.

Through the years I've learned to defend myself again, to be more aggressive and just.
I can't relate to this statement as I didn't have to learn to defend myself, be aggressive and/or be just. They have come naturally to me and I have done it since I can remember.

Anger has been just a part of me and has been with me since I can remember. I recall telling my therapist the only three feelings I could relate to where anger, fear, and happy.

Most negative emotions for me are converted and expressed as anger. It has only been within the past two years that I am beginning to recognize what my true emotions are. And, it is a very difficult and challenging process for me to interrupt the cycle of subconsciously and automatically converting everything to anger.



I found that even when I am aggressive it doesnt mean that I'm doing something wrong, it feels natural in a way and I'm reliefed that I can allow myself be what my personality is.
When I see statements that places anger in a framework of being right versus wrong it reminds me more of Enneatype 1 relationship with anger than Enneatype 8.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I can't relate to this statement as I didn't have to learn to defend myself, be aggressive and/or be just. They have come naturally to me and I have done it since I can remember.
This learning might be more of a remembering for me. My therapist suggested that when my father was an abusive 8 I had to rely upon my wings instead of being 8. So when I was too young to defend myself from other 8 I adopted to be a 7. When I got older I started to be more of an 8 and it was traumatic to always fight with my father who was much stronger at the time than me. So my personality was pressed down and I became sick. Many years of therapy and stuff I can and have challenged my father succesfully. We come along, but we never go too intimate about things, we never talk about things and we come along just fine. He havent pushed me since when he noticed that I can and will give back.

So this has been a very traumatic for me and I don't consider myself as growing in a very healthy environment and therefore I don't consider myself to be as stereotypes. And no, I am not saying that I am 8 even when most of the signs imply to the type in my head. I will investigate more. Thank you for the insights. If theres more, all help is appriciated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I think this book is fairly trusthworthy: Deep Coaching (couldn't do it as a link, check amazon if interested)

Core Believe of enneagram type 6:

"I believe that the world is full of threats. I can't trust the world or others and can't trust myself to make the right decision or do the right things. I need to be prepared to protect myself from these threats."

I don't relate.

Core Believe of enneagram type 8:

"I believe that it's hard and unjust world. I need to protect myself from the unfairness and injustice of others. I cannot show my vulnerability, becouse orhers will take unfair advantage of me. Therefore, I must show my strenght and power"

I don't relate much to the part: "I believe that it's hard and unjust world. " Must be becouse of my spiritual development. But I sure as hell relate to the part: "I need to protect myself from the unfairness and injustice of others. I cannot show my vulnerability, becouse others will take unfair advantage of me. Therefore, I must show my strenght and power"

I'm willing to hear any toughts you might have about the subject.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,299 Posts
This learning might be more of a remembering for me. My therapist suggested that when my father was an abusive 8 I had to rely upon my wings instead of being 8. So when I was too young to defend myself from other 8 I adopted to be a 7. When I got older I started to be more of an 8 and it was traumatic to always fight with my father who was much stronger at the time than me. So my personality was pressed down and I became sick. Many years of therapy and stuff I can and have challenged my father succesfully. We come along, but we never go too intimate about things, we never talk about things and we come along just fine. He havent pushed me since when he noticed that I can and will give back.

So this has been a very traumatic for me and I don't consider myself as growing in a very healthy environment and therefore I don't consider myself to be as stereotypes. And no, I am not saying that I am 8 even when most of the signs imply to the type in my head. I will investigate more. Thank you for the insights. If theres more, all help is appriciated.
TBH haven't heard of or read anything that implies a person rely on their wings rather than their core type before so I really don't have a comment on that one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,299 Posts
I think this book is fairly trusthworthy: Deep Coaching (couldn't do it as a link, check amazon if interested)

Core Believe of enneagram type 6:

"I believe that the world is full of threats. I can't trust the world or others and can't trust myself to make the right decision or do the right things. I need to be prepared to protect myself from these threats."

I don't relate.

Core Believe of enneagram type 8:

"I believe that it's hard and unjust world. I need to protect myself from the unfairness and injustice of others. I cannot show my vulnerability, becouse orhers will take unfair advantage of me. Therefore, I must show my strenght and power"

I don't relate much to the part: "I believe that it's hard and unjust world. " Must be becouse of my spiritual development. But I sure as hell relate to the part: "I need to protect myself from the unfairness and injustice of others. I cannot show my vulnerability, becouse others will take unfair advantage of me. Therefore, I must show my strenght and power"

I'm willing to hear any toughts you might have about the subject.
I was a huge fan of Riso and Hudson. But, after following the advice of @Boss and acquiring the books by Naranjo and Maitri....I find them to be much more reliable sources. Good luck in your self discovery process in identifying your enneatype.
 

·
(ノ´ヮ´)ノ*:・゚✧
Joined
·
5,110 Posts
I think this book is fairly trusthworthy: Deep Coaching (couldn't do it as a link, check amazon if interested)

Core Believe of enneagram type 6:

"I believe that the world is full of threats. I can't trust the world or others and can't trust myself to make the right decision or do the right things. I need to be prepared to protect myself from these threats."

I don't relate.

Core Believe of enneagram type 8:

"I believe that it's hard and unjust world. I need to protect myself from the unfairness and injustice of others. I cannot show my vulnerability, becouse orhers will take unfair advantage of me. Therefore, I must show my strenght and power"

I don't relate much to the part: "I believe that it's hard and unjust world. " Must be becouse of my spiritual development. But I sure as hell relate to the part: "I need to protect myself from the unfairness and injustice of others. I cannot show my vulnerability, becouse others will take unfair advantage of me. Therefore, I must show my strenght and power"

I'm willing to hear any toughts you might have about the subject.
I think that Six and Eight will both recognize that there's some kind of danger out there, but it's of an entirely different sort for each type. For the Six, there is more of a danger in uncertainty. Eight is more about the loss of control in an unjust world.

Six and Eights are both in the "Intensity" Harmonic group, but also look at their triads. Six is a counter-fear head type (e.g. acting to prevent fear) while Eights are a counter-anger body type (e.g. acting to prevent anger.) So Sixes are framed in "thought-based" terms while Eights are in "action-based" terms.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,265 Posts
Interesting, you say you used to be a 2 then acted like an unhealthy 8. Sounds like you're a 2 that disintegrated to an 8 under stress. 2's are known to self medicate with alcohol and drugs and stuff because it does something for them somehow of which I do not understand.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Interesting, you say you used to be a 2 then acted like an unhealthy 8. Sounds like you're a 2 that disintegrated to an 8 under stress. 2's are known to self medicate with alcohol and drugs and stuff because it does something for them somehow of which I do not understand.
Hi IoE

This thread made me start a new thread to the "What's my enneagram type?" - section. Pretty sure my personality is counterphobic six, but also it would be nice to hear what you think after reading this:

Counterphobic 6, type 8 or something else?
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top