Personality Cafe banner
1 - 20 of 83 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
17,781 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
some random things I've observed about 5s. feel free to agree or present contrary either evidence. either way, sharing your own experience and/or observations is welcome

- how intellectual a 5 is is related to how strong their Social instinct is. for that reason, most will be at least somewhat intellectual, but there are some with very weak Social who wouldn't readily identify as extremely intellectual (Bella Swan from Twilight, a 5w4 Sx/Sp, is a good example of this).
- similarly, the not all 5s are STEM nerds who spend all their time studying hard sciences. this is a very specific type of 5 (Social 5w6 with a 3 fix), not 5s in general.
- also similarly, Social 5 is the least lazy of the subtypes and has the widest scoping interest in the external world
- the pragmatism of 5s tends to be underestimated in most descriptions, with the exception of Sp-last 5s, who tend to struggle with this and become annoyed when people expect them to be practical.
- on a somewhat contradictory note, the competency focus of 5s is over-inflated in general. the wing makes a big difference here (5w6 is significantly more competency driven than 5w4), and the stacking makes an even bigger difference. Sx-last 5s are the most competency driven, while Sexual 5s are often not competency driven at all. speaking for myself here (5w4 Sx/Sp), my drive for competence is entirely fear based and arising from strong secondary Sp. that shouldn't suggest I hate learning (I love watching documentaries on history,
- similarly, valuing independence is a universal trait of 5s (to the point where I would have no problem telling any 5 who didn't value it that they were mistyped). however, that doesn't mean that they are necessarily good at getting independence. 5s struggle a lot with feeling like reality is overwhelming, so many of them lack the guts to put in the substantial work necessary to become independent.
- energy conservation is a huge deal for 5s, perhaps even moreso than for 9. for this reason, I believe a lot of "geeks" who are traditionally typed at 5 are either Self Preservation 3 with a 5 fix or Social 5 with a very strong 3 fix (@Vajra and I were discussing Bill Gates's type a while back, and agree he is actually a 3)

@Animal @Flatlander you might find this interesting
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
17,781 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
some more
- Self Preservation 5 has the strongest connection to 8 of the 5 subtypes. they are the most realistic, down-to-earth 5 and can exhibit strong territorial tendencies. this is also the most power-seeking 5 and shares the jaded, quasi-Darwinian outlook of 8s.
- in contrast, Sp-last 5s can look very similar to 9s. however, it generally becomes clear upon getting to know them that they are far more individualistic and opinionated than 9s.
- also unlike 9s, 5s have an ability to shut off feelings which rivals 8s and makes them more impervious to insults, peer pressure and social conditioning than most types.
- Naranjo's correlating Buddhism with 5s is bullshit. many 5s are extremely materialistic. granted, it's not a status driven materialism (3) or an extreme, addictive materialism (7 and 8), but 5 is a survivalist type, which is generally acutely aware of their need for material possessions in order to be safe, comfortable and secure. if I were to correlate Buddhism with an Enneagram type, 9 and Social 7 come to mind as far better candidates.
- 5s with strong sexual are intensely loyal personalities (far more than 6 imo).
- 5s are, in general, extremely cowardly; however, this tendency can be as dangerous as it is pathetic, because 5s are more strategic than 8s and less reactive than cp6s, in addition to the aforementioned ability to shut off feelings.
- similarly, while 5s are generally out of touch with their anger, they can, if cornered, explode in an incredibly vicious manner which, for a short while, can resemble and exaggerated depiction of Sexual 8w7.
- 5s' eyes typically resemble their demeanor: laconic, checked out. Social and Self Preservation 5s typically have a more robotic gaze (unless they have strong secondary Sexual) while Sexual 5s have a sweeter, more melancholic gaze which appears more sensitive and a little more vulnerable.
- unlike other 5s, Sexual 5s are more likely to be Feelers. in my experience, Self Preservation 5 is most likely to be INTJ, Social 5 is most likely to be INTP and Sexual 5 is most likely to be INFP. additionally, Social 5 INTJs, Self Preservation 5 ISTJs, and Social or Sexual INFJs aren't rare.
- the theme "Confidence" for Sexual 5 is patently absurd. "Loneliness", "Soul Mate" or "Romance" would all be far more accurate descriptions
 

·
Registered
NiTe 549
Joined
·
5,321 Posts
some random things I've observed about 5s. feel free to agree or present contrary either evidence. either way, sharing your own experience and/or observations is welcome

- how intellectual a 5 is is related to how strong their Social instinct is. for that reason, most will be at least somewhat intellectual, but there are some with very weak Social who wouldn't readily identify as extremely intellectual (Bella Swan from Twilight, a 5w4 Sx/Sp, is a good example of this).
- similarly, the not all 5s are STEM nerds who spend all their time studying hard sciences. this is a very specific type of 5 (Social 5w6 with a 3 fix), not 5s in general.
- also similarly, Social 5 is the least lazy of the subtypes and has the widest scoping interest in the external world
- the pragmatism of 5s tends to be underestimated in most descriptions, with the exception of Sp-last 5s, who tend to struggle with this and become annoyed when people expect them to be practical.
- on a somewhat contradictory note, the competency focus of 5s is over-inflated in general. the wing makes a big difference here (5w6 is significantly more competency driven than 5w4), and the stacking makes an even bigger difference. Sx-last 5s are the most competency driven, while Sexual 5s are often not competency driven at all. speaking for myself here (5w4 Sx/Sp), my drive for competence is entirely fear based and arising from strong secondary Sp. that shouldn't suggest I hate learning (I love watching documentaries on history,
- similarly, valuing independence is a universal trait of 5s (to the point where I would have no problem telling any 5 who didn't value it that they were mistyped). however, that doesn't mean that they are necessarily good at getting independence. 5s struggle a lot with feeling like reality is overwhelming, so many of them lack the guts to put in the substantial work necessary to become independent.
- energy conservation is a huge deal for 5s, perhaps even moreso than for 9. for this reason, I believe a lot of "geeks" who are traditionally typed at 5 are either Self Preservation 3 with a 5 fix or Social 5 with a very strong 3 fix (@Vajra and I were discussing Bill Gates's type a while back, and agree he is actually a 3)

@Animal @Flatlander you might find this interesting
In your view of things, am I a 5w4 or a 5w6?

Also, as to your second post, I find confidence is highly important for me and makes all the difference in the world in how I respond to things. When I know all my shit and am intimately familiar with what I'm dealing with, I am confident and I will take charge easily; when I don't, I stay behind the scenes learning, and respond to the world more weakly. I always rejected feeling lonely without others, I don't identify with being romantic unless I'm in love, etc.. I am reliant on the bond between myself and whatever I have mentally grabbed, so "soul mate" may not be too far off, but that doesn't have to be human and often isn't.

I should go through your posts and do a line by line, we'll see if I have the energy later.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
17,781 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
In your view of things, am I a 5w4 or a 5w6?
Also, as to your second post, I find confidence is highly important for me and makes all the difference in the world in how I respond to things. I always rejected feeling lonely without others, I don't identify with being overromantic unless I'm in love and etc. I am reliant on the bond between myself and whatever I have mentally grabbed, but that doesn't have to be human and often isn't.
I don't have any reason to doubt 5w4 for you, but, since you asked, you have always struck me as more Sp/Sx than Sx/Sp. a longing for romantic intimacy is central to Sexual 5.
PS: in general, I am skeptical of most self-typed Sx doms who say that their desire for intimacy/bonding is wholely linked to non-human objects (I think the instinctual nature of the Sexual instinct is under-emphasized in most texts).
 

·
Registered
NiTe 549
Joined
·
5,321 Posts
I don't have any reason to doubt 5w4 for you, but, since you asked, you have always struck me as more Sp/Sx than Sx/Sp. a longing for romantic intimacy is central to Sexual 5.
PS: in general, I am skeptical of most self-typed Sx doms who say that their desire for intimacy/bonding is wholely linked to non-human objects (I think the instinctual nature of the Sexual instinct is under-emphasized in most texts).
Instinct happens toward anything in the world that can be interacted with, not just humans. Instinct happens toward machines. Instinct happens toward scholarly subjects. Instinct happens toward ideas.

This is part of the beauty of having a human mind. Human minds are founded on instinct.

I have been interested in other humans across my life too, but I'm intensely interested in and devote myself to anything that is in my mind, human and non-human alike. I bond with it and hold with a death grip. That's the critical point of sx, especially for 5 which is a mind type based in avarice. I have far less care for my health, life and limb (those are typical talking points for sp). I am currently going through a patch where I'm more dedicated to self-preservation in an overall sense, focused on making my own way in the world, but that is not typical for me as a primary motivator (rather than dependent on sx). It's a rebound from a breakup and it's weird as hell.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
17,781 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Instinct happens toward anything in the world that can be interacted with, not just humans. Instinct happens toward machines. Instinct happens toward scholarly subjects. Instinct happens toward ideas.

This is part of the beauty of having a human mind. Human minds are founded on instinct.

I have been interested in other humans across my life too, but I'm intensely interested in and devote myself to anything that is in my mind, human and non-human alike. I bond with it and hold with a death grip. That's the critical point of sx, especially for 5 which is a mind type based in avarice. I have far less care for my health, life and limb (those are typical talking points for sp). I am currently going through a patch where I'm more dedicated to self-preservation in an overall sense, focused on making my own way in the world, but that is not at all typical for me. It's a rebound from a breakup and it's weird as hell.
I have not observed you at length, but from what I've seen of you, you don't strike me as obsessive enough to be Sx dom. I don't doubt you have strong passions about particular things/topics/people, but you seem to have an easier time pulling away than Sx doms to. Sx doms are married at the hip to their passions, in a manner which can resemble co-dependence if they don't know how to deal with it. a central facet of the Sexual instinct is not simply passion for someone/something, but a need for reciprocation. at the very least, it would have to be from something like a dog or a close friend, but Sexual doms of all nine types are emotional creatures who require mutual "spill your guts" interaction (for lack of a better word) to stay sane. inanimate objections and abstract concepts are simply not enough to suffice.

I have been interested in other humans across my life too, but I'm intensely interested in and devote myself to anything that is in my mind
this is a common thread among all 5s, regardless of stacking.
 

·
Registered
NiTe 549
Joined
·
5,321 Posts
I have not observed you at length, but from what I've seen of you, you don't strike me as obsessive enough to be Sx dom. I don't doubt you have strong passions about particular things/topics/people, but you seem to have an easier time pulling away than Sx doms to. Sx doms are married at the hip to their passions, in a manner which can resemble co-dependence if they don't know how to deal with it. a central facet of the Sexual instinct is not simply passion for someone/something, but a need for reciprocation. at the very least, it would have to be from something like a dog or a close friend, but Sexual doms of all nine types are emotional creatures who require mutual "spill your guts" interaction (for lack of a better word) to stay sane. inanimate objections and abstract concepts are simply not enough to suffice.
I don't typically spill my guts to the public at large. Why would I? It doesn't get me anywhere. I could spill as much as I want but I'd get no meaningful response. Communities and communal response do little to nothing for me, so when I think about it I even question why I'm here, except I'm interested in specific individuals and individual topics on this forum.

I'm social blindspot to the point of absurdity, so that is why you don't see spillage from me in this way.

There are a few who get that side of me, and get it at extreme length. Recursively, they are my sx attachments. Often, they are also people I feel like I can talk to about my sx attachments. We have them in common, care about them mutually or what have you. I get a response from them that goes somewhere.

this is a common thread among all 5s, regardless of stacking.
Not as much as you think. Self-preservation and social instincts are not predicated on that same attachment. Self-preservation types are focused on making their own way in the world and keeping themselves safe above all, while social types are focused on how they fit into the rest of the world and can navigate it socially. Sure they also put their mental content to good use, but the attachment to it as an object rather than for its utility in other contexts is more sexual than anything because it is an instance of bonding.

You could put forth some argument for self-preservation in this respect too, as I have before on the forum. Self-pres is preserving whatever you see as yourself and if you are merged with your mental content, it also can come out in this way. But I've spent considerable time reflecting on myself since I've said things like that, and I think I am not exactly as consciously/self-defined in that way by my mental content as I once thought I was. And yet I am. It's not the easiest thing to explain.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
17,781 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I don't typically spill my guts to the public at large. Why would I? It doesn't get me anywhere. I could spill as much as I want but I'd get no meaningful response. Communities and communal response do little to nothing for me, so when I think about it I even question why I'm here, except I'm interested in specific individuals and individual topics on this forum.

I'm social blindspot to the point of absurdity, so that is why you don't see spillage from me in this way.

There are a few who get that side of me, and get it at extreme length. Recursively, they are my sx attachments. Often, they are also people I feel like I can talk to about my sx attachments. We have them in common, care about them mutually or what have you. I get a response from them that goes somewhere.
good point (I'm hardly open about most of my vulnerabilities for that very reason, though I feel like more of them "slip through the cracks" with me)


Not as much as you think. Self-preservation and social instincts are not predicated on that same attachment. Self-preservation types are focused on making their own way in the world and keeping themselves safe above all, while social types are focused on how they fit into the rest of the world and can navigate it socially. Sure they also put their mental content to good use, but the attachment to it as an object rather than for its utility in other contexts is more sexual than anything because it is an instance of bonding.

You could put forth some argument for self-preservation in this respect too, as I have before on the forum. Self-pres is preserving whatever you see as yourself and if you are merged with your mental content, it also can come out in this way. But I've spent considerable time reflecting on myself since I've said things like that, and I think I am not exactly as consciously/self-defined in that way by my mental content as I once thought I was. And yet I am. It's not the easiest thing to explain.
Self Preservation types have an intimate connection with anything pertaining to themselves and Social 5s specifically have an intimate connection with the theories, competence, knowledge, etc that they put inside their mind. therefore, all 5s have an intimate connection with their own minds for different reasons.
 

·
Registered
NiTe 549
Joined
·
5,321 Posts
Self Preservation types have an intimate connection with anything pertaining to themselves and Social 5s specifically have an intimate connection with the theories, competence, knowledge, etc that they put inside their mind. therefore, all 5s have an intimate connection with their own minds for different reasons.
How did you get that information on social 5s? That isn't the way I understand the instinct on the whole, never mind how it manifests in the 5 which is a different story and again, dependent on context.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
17,781 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
How did you get that information on social 5s? That isn't the way I understand the instinct on the whole, never mind how it manifests in the 5 which is a different story and again, dependent on context.
Social 5 (whether we are looking at Naranjo, R&H, Maitri, etc) is the most intellectual and knowledge-acquisitive of the 5s.
 

·
Registered
ILI
Joined
·
5,652 Posts
some more
- Self Preservation 5 has the strongest connection to 8 of the 5 subtypes. they are the most realistic, down-to-earth 5 and can exhibit strong territorial tendencies. this is also the most power-seeking 5 and shares the jaded, quasi-Darwinian outlook of 8s.
I identify as 5 sp but not as 8. I'm much more 9w1.

- Naranjo's correlating Buddhism with 5s is bullshit. many 5s are extremely materialistic. granted, it's not a status driven materialism (3) or an extreme, addictive materialism (7 and 8), but 5 is a survivalist type, which is generally acutely aware of their need for material possessions in order to be safe, comfortable and secure. if I were to correlate Buddhism with an Enneagram type, 9 and Social 7 come to mind as far better candidates.
Disagree quite a bit. Materialism for survival is 6, no? In any case, I don't relate to it. Even as an sp 5.

- unlike other 5s, Sexual 5s are more likely to be Feelers. in my experience, Self Preservation 5 is most likely to be INTJ, Social 5 is most likely to be INTP and Sexual 5 is most likely to be INFP.
Astute observation!
 
  • Like
Reactions: UnicornRainbowLove

·
Banned
Joined
·
17,781 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I identify as 5 sp but not as 8. I'm much more 9w1.
your questionnaire didn't sound very 9-ish, but fair enough (could be in your trifix)

Disagree quite a bit. Materialism for survival is 6, no? In any case, I don't relate to it. Even as an sp 5.
no, the 6's survival style is more social in nature (or at least anti-social)

Astute observation!
:)
 

·
Registered
ILI
Joined
·
5,652 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,436 Posts
I really liked the observations. Great work!

However, the Buddhism part struck me as too quickly judged (mostly because I use that philosophy for lots of inspiration.) While I find it unlikely that objective contemplation will lead to the notion that materialistic objects have no value and that all happiness is found within, it won't have much interest in objects beyond their basic function. For all that is unnecessary Fives can be aware of avarice as a personal problem that perhaps spirituality can relieve them of.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,175 Posts
- how intellectual a 5 is is related to how strong their Social instinct is. for that reason, most will be at least somewhat intellectual, but there are some with very weak Social who wouldn't readily identify as extremely intellectual (Bella Swan from Twilight, a 5w4 Sx/Sp, is a good example of this).


Agreed.


- similarly, the not all 5s are STEM nerds who spend all their time studying hard sciences. this is a very specific type of 5 (Social 5w6 with a 3 fix), not 5s in general.

Agreed.

- also similarly, Social 5 is the least lazy of the subtypes and has the widest scoping interest in the external world


I think it depends on what you mean by external world here - a lot of 5's have interests that take them out of their own head/space. For example, I'm someone who loves the outdoors but I don't necessarily like having to interact with other people. I have my external world interests, but I still tend to like having that solitary space to explore and enjoy them. I tend to do a lot but most of my doing takes place on my own and within my own home/space/hobbies.


I would agree that SO 5's seem to be the most readily able to interact with others.


- the pragmatism of 5s tends to be underestimated in most descriptions, with the exception of Sp-last 5s, who tend to struggle with this and become annoyed when people expect them to be practical.


Agreed.


- on a somewhat contradictory note, the competency focus of 5s is over-inflated in general. the wing makes a big difference here (5w6 is significantly more competency driven than 5w4), and the stacking makes an even bigger difference. Sx-last 5s are the most competency driven, while Sexual 5s are often not competency driven at all. speaking for myself here (5w4 Sx/Sp), my drive for competence is entirely fear based and arising from strong secondary Sp. that shouldn't suggest I hate learning (I love watching documentaries on history,


3-5 years ago I probably would have agreed with this, but as I do more and more self exploration, its been really surprising how much competency permeates all parts of my life, in so many ways that I couldn't see when I was younger. I'm SX5 and I don't think my competency is very visible to others, but its a big part of my the core of my neuroses. I agree that my competency is fear-based, but I don't think that negates the fact that it is part of my core.


- similarly, valuing independence is a universal trait of 5s (to the point where I would have no problem telling any 5 who didn't value it that they were mistyped). however, that doesn't mean that they are necessarily good at getting independence. 5s struggle a lot with feeling like reality is overwhelming, so many of them lack the guts to put in the substantial work necessary to become independent.

Agreed.

- energy conservation is a huge deal for 5s, perhaps even moreso than for 9. for this reason, I believe a lot of "geeks" who are traditionally typed at 5 are either Self Preservation 3 with a 5 fix or Social 5 with a very strong 3 fix (@Vajra and I were discussing Bill Gates's type a while back, and agree he is actually a 3)


Definitely agree. One of the things I've struggled with the most in my life.


- Self Preservation 5 has the strongest connection to 8 of the 5 subtypes. they are the most realistic, down-to-earth 5 and can exhibit strong territorial tendencies. this is also the most power-seeking 5 and shares the jaded, quasi-Darwinian outlook of 8s.


Not sure if I agree with this one - I've seen a lot of different 5's (tritypes and instincts) who share a lot of different aspects of 8. I don't know if I would say one type necessarily has a stronger connection than another - there's a lot of factors that go into connection to other types and I think some 5's have stronger connections to various aspects of 8.


- in contrast, Sp-last 5s can look very similar to 9s. however, it generally becomes clear upon getting to know them that they are far more individualistic and opinionated than 9s.


I agree with this, but I don't think it's restricted to only sp-last 5's (trend perhaps).


- also unlike 9s, 5s have an ability to shut off feelings which rivals 8s and makes them more impervious to insults, peer pressure and social conditioning than most types.


I don't know if I would agree 'shutting off feelings' is exactly what happens. I think 9's can actually be very skilled at that, but in very unhealthy times they can get stuck in the depersonalization where they don't even know how to recognize feelings that occur - which can look very 5ish, but it's more like a total loss of connection to themselves as well as everyone else. I don't think 9's typically completely lose that connection though (unless very unhealthy), more typically they still feel the feelings and are led by their emotions without realizing it.

I haven't ever experienced a loss of connection to myself. How it happens for me isn't a shutting off of feelings, but an intellectualizing of them. It's like they're filtered through logic/objectivism (as objective as we can subjectively be) but they're not exactly gone either - I can be aware intellectually of a 'feeling' but I also won't have an external release of that feeling.


- Naranjo's correlating Buddhism with 5s is bullshit. many 5s are extremely materialistic. granted, it's not a status driven materialism (3) or an extreme, addictive materialism (7 and 8), but 5 is a survivalist type, which is generally acutely aware of their need for material possessions in order to be safe, comfortable and secure. if I were to correlate Buddhism with an Enneagram type, 9 and Social 7 come to mind as far better candidates.


I think this again depends on what you define as materialistic. I agree with the survivalist perspective, but I don't know if I would equate that with materialism.


- 5s with strong sexual are intensely loyal personalities (far more than 6 imo).


I would agree with that as a trend, not a rule.


- 5s are, in general, extremely cowardly; however, this tendency can be as dangerous as it is pathetic, because 5s are more strategic than 8s and less reactive than cp6s, in addition to the aforementioned ability to shut off feelings.


Agreed.


- similarly, while 5s are generally out of touch with their anger, they can, if cornered, explode in an incredibly vicious manner which, for a short while, can resemble and exaggerated depiction of Sexual 8w7.


Hah! Would have to agree, however these types of episodes are extremely rare nowadays.


- 5s' eyes typically resemble their demeanor: laconic, checked out. Social and Self Preservation 5s typically have a more robotic gaze (unless they have strong secondary Sexual) while Sexual 5s have a sweeter, more melancholic gaze which appears more sensitive and a little more vulnerable.


My partner calls me 'pensive', but I'm also a fairly friendly person in my professional life - at a distance.


- unlike other 5s, Sexual 5s are more likely to be Feelers. in my experience, Self Preservation 5 is most likely to be INTJ, Social 5 is most likely to be INTP and Sexual 5 is most likely to be INFP. additionally, Social 5 INTJs, Self Preservation 5 ISTJs, and Social or Sexual INFJs aren't rare.


I don't have enough expertise in the model, but my best guess is that I'm an INFP.


- the theme "Confidence" for Sexual 5 is patently absurd. "Loneliness", "Soul Mate" or "Romance" would all be far more accurate descriptions


I disagree. Confidence is another one of those things that I would have agreed on a few years ago, but now I can see how its a very big part of my personality. I don't agree with the loneliness piece although I used to hope to find someone who could understand me, I also always felt like I was looking for a particular connection and if I didn't find that I would be okay on my own. But soul mate makes sense in the way that I've always been searching for a very specific kind of connection. Romance only makes sense in my head, as my partner wouldn't say I'm particularly romantic. In my head the idea of romance correlates to the type of writing I posted to Ripley a few weeks ago. http://personalitycafe.com/type-5-forum-investigator/99223-type-5-confession-s-52.html#post15819618
 

·
Registered
NiTe 549
Joined
·
5,321 Posts
Social 5 (whether we are looking at Naranjo, R&H, Maitri, etc) is the most intellectual and knowledge-acquisitive of the 5s.
When you make a claim like that, you need to explain your reasoning. There needs to be some reason why the social variant, in particular, should drive a 5 to acquire knowledge more than a different variant. If these sources haven't, then that's on them, and their statement really contains no meaning and is no aid to understanding the type. It portrays what they have seen in the type but offers no intrinsic proof that this defines the type.

If they have, what is the rationale? I'm sure if there is one you've probably posted it somewhere else but I'm kinda busy to do a search, so if you could give me a quick explanation? Because I disagree that it's fundamentally about the social variant of enneagram 5 to be this way, but I could be wrong.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
17,781 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
When you make a claim like that, you need to explain your reasoning. There needs to be some reason why the social variant, in particular, should drive a 5 to acquire knowledge more than a different variant. If these sources haven't, then that's on them, and their statement really contains no meaning and is no aid to understanding the type. It portrays what they have seen in the type but offers no intrinsic proof that this defines the type.

If they have, what is the rationale? I'm sure if there is one you've probably posted it somewhere else but I'm kinda busy to do a search, so if you could give me a quick explanation? Because I disagree that it's fundamentally about the social variant of enneagram 5 to be this way, but I could be wrong.
ok, I'll give you a slightly less lazy answer. some bits from Beatrice Chestnut's book which explain it better.


These Fives don't need the nourishment relationships provide because their passion for knowledge somehow compensates for what they might get from direct human contact. It's as if they have an intuition that they can find everything they need through the mind.
The name given to this subtype is “Totem,” which communicates their need for “super-ideals,” or the need to relate to people who share their intellectual values, interests, and ideals.
These Fives do not relate to regular people in everyday life- they relate to easily idealized experts who share their ideals; to people who display what they see as outstanding characteristics based on shared values and knowledge and who they can keep at a certain distance. One Social Five I know says he “collects people” who share his interests and values.
basically, the main differences
- Social 5s feel that all the resources they need are in their mind, unlike Self Preservation 5s who are acutely aware of their need for resources and protection and Sexual 5s who are aware of their burning need for a perfect partner
- more than other 5s, Social 5s have a strong reliance on role models, whom they try to emulate and acquire competence in the hopes of becoming akin to
- Social 5's thirst for knowledge is often a little bit elitist. they are the most 3-ish of the 5s and view knowledge and competence as a means of being useful and fitting into groups of more "advanced" individuals
 

·
Registered
NiTe 549
Joined
·
5,321 Posts
ok, I'll give you a slightly less lazy answer. some bits from Beatrice Chestnut's book which explain it better.








basically, the main differences
- Social 5s feel that all the resources they need are in their mind, unlike Self Preservation 5s who are acutely aware of their need for resources and protection and Sexual 5s who are aware of their burning need for a perfect partner
- more than other 5s, Social 5s have a strong reliance on role models, whom they try to emulate and acquire competence in the hopes of becoming akin to
- Social 5's thirst for knowledge is often a little bit elitist. they are the most 3-ish of the 5s and view knowledge and competence as a means of being useful and fitting into groups of more "advanced" individuals
Okay but that still doesn't explain anything about why she thinks this defines the type. What about being social plus core 5 makes it work that way? She's interpreting things others have said and not really explained, either, such as the "totem" designation for social 5.

It isn't satisfying and it doesn't mean anything to me. It just tells me this is what she thinks a social 5 is, which leaves it open to bland disagreement.

I don't think it defines social 5 as opposed to any other 5 to:

- Think all their resources are in their head. That's 5 in general, but why would a social 5 in particular be that way if their focus is on the humans around them?
- Rely on role models. I can see how that might be related to the social subtype in general, in a weird way, but not related to type 5 in particular. It seems more likely for 6.
- Elitism, being useful... fitting in? Doesn't make sense as a 5-exclusive thing either. If it's not exclusive to 5, it can't define 5.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
17,781 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Okay but that still doesn't explain anything about why she thinks this defines the type. What about being social plus core 5 makes it work that way? She's interpreting things others have said and not really explained, either, such as the "totem" designation for social 5.

It isn't satisfying and it doesn't mean anything to me. It just tells me this is what she thinks a social 5 is, which leaves it open to bland disagreement.
I'm not really sure what you're confused about. it seems pretty straightforward to me. Social 5s wish to be seen as "advanced" and associate with other people whom they view as such. an extreme, somewhat stereotypical example would be pretentious STEM degree students who are paranoid about whether or not they are "smart" enough.
 

·
Registered
NiTe 549
Joined
·
5,321 Posts
I'm not really sure what you're confused about. it seems pretty straightforward to me. Social 5s wish to be seen as "advanced" and associate with other people whom they view as such. an extreme, somewhat stereotypical example would be pretentious STEM degree students who are paranoid about whether or not they are "smart" enough.
I take issue with the idea that types all need to be seen as anything. I don't think that's a universal for types, while some authors definitely do.

Types are how you instinctively respond to the world. Some people don't care nearly as much about being seen in any which way by others. So it's a question of how to distinguish what types really care about this, and what types don't.

Is it a social instinct thing to care about how the world sees you? Maybe sometimes it gets conflated... but I tend to think this is more an image type thing in general. Image types have investment in what the world sees, as that's the image. Mind types have more investment in surviving the world, as they're a fear type. So the "social" 5 would be no different in that respect, just relying more on their understanding of the social world to get by.

I could see this leading to more focus on understanding or knowing about people. Think Abed from Community. Abed knows all about the people around him and more than his fair share of how society works, which leads him to feel more secure in navigating it. He's a walking social type 5 archetype, and I'd argue him at so/sp. But I can't see why it'd necessarily lead to this behavior of paranoia over whether one is smart enough. In my view that's more of an image thing, as it deals with how one is recognized by others.
 
1 - 20 of 83 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top