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My perspective in debates is usually...

  • Apathetic

    Votes: 2 11.8%
  • Cynic

    Votes: 2 11.8%
  • Realist

    Votes: 5 29.4%
  • Optimist

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Conflicted

    Votes: 2 11.8%
  • Independent, objective and impersonal (Cynic or Apathetic)

    Votes: 2 11.8%
  • Serious and very conscious of grim reality (Cynic or Conflicted)

    Votes: 1 5.9%
  • Objective, opportunistic and unburdened (Apathetic or Realist)

    Votes: 1 5.9%
  • Relational glue and team player w/ influence (Realist or Optimist)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Idealistic, interpersonal and empathetic (Optimist or Conflicted)

    Votes: 2 11.8%
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Based on the TV Tropes info, the five possible angles to see from are like this:
Apathetic -- uninvested in the outcome (whether a bystanding observer, mindlessly obedient servant, or an "opportunist" busy with a separate objective); stolid; fickle "wild card"; "drinks from the glass" while others are busy debating if it's "half empty" or "half full"
Cynic -- Awareness of mostly what is not to be done/not a wise decision (often leaning toward "glass half empty"); snarky; tends to do what must be done without being burdened by whether it will hurt/spare anyone's feelings; book/street smart and highly fixated on duty/survival; assumes oneself the only one sane in the debate (doubting often the sanity of even the Realist); usually sees the Optimist's viewpoint as a naïve, gullible "sunshine and rainbows" fantasy
Realist -- Works to be a decisive leader/mediator; takes middle ground between Cynic and Optimist or satisfies everyone with the best alternative; capable leader toward a goal, but also like a parent looking out for everyone's well-being, sees from multiple angles; "glass half empty and half full"
Optimist -- friendship and the right thing at heart both more important than strict rules or survival; believing in everyone's "inherent goodness at heart" and that and an ending that does good to everyone is possible - won't give up on such idealism; "glass half full"; assumed therefore by the Cynic to live in a "sunshine and rainbows" fantasy world
Conflicted -- Caught in the middle of awareness of when the Cynic is right, but deeply idealistic and longing to concur with the Optimist; wants to be the group's emotional glue; moral and empathic, if a bit indecisive a lot of times; more dependent and less confident than the others; the most burdened of the five
 

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I guess Apathetic. I can be any of the other ones as well though, although the Optimist less of all of them I think.
 

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Based on the TV Tropes info, the five possible angles to see from are like this:
Apathetic -- uninvested in the outcome (whether a bystanding observer, mindlessly obedient servant, or an "opportunist" busy with a separate objective); stolid; fickle "wild card"; "drinks from the glass" while others are busy debating if it's "half empty" or "half full"
Cynic -- Awareness of mostly what is not to be done/not a wise decision (often leaning toward "glass half empty"); snarky; tends to do what must be done without being burdened by whether it will hurt/spare anyone's feelings; book/street smart and highly fixated on duty/survival; assumes oneself the only one sane in the debate (doubting often the sanity of even the Realist); usually sees the Optimist's viewpoint as a naïve, gullible "sunshine and rainbows" fantasy
Realist -- Works to be a decisive leader/mediator; takes middle ground between Cynic and Optimist or satisfies everyone with the best alternative; capable leader toward a goal, but also like a parent looking out for everyone's well-being, sees from multiple angles; "glass half empty and half full"
Optimist -- friendship and the right thing at heart both more important than strict rules or survival; believing in everyone's "inherent goodness at heart" and that and an ending that does good to everyone is possible - won't give up on such idealism; "glass half full"; assumed therefore by the Cynic to live in a "sunshine and rainbows" fantasy world
Conflicted -- Caught in the middle of awareness of when the Cynic is right, but deeply idealistic and longing to concur with the Optimist; wants to be the group's emotional glue; moral and empathic, if a bit indecisive a lot of times; more dependent and less confident than the others; the most burdened of the five
ENTP = a mix of all of the above, jumping from one style to the next.
 

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Add "I am right and you are wrong" to your poll and you will probably get more responses.




hahaha... I slay me.
 

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I picked "Realist" because it seems like the best one.

I'll defend my POV, since I think it is correct, probably by stating why I'm right and insulting the offenders.

But if it's something I don't care about, it can be amusing to try to group the wrong people, so they can become one or a handful of bundles of wrongness that I can then think about as a small little paragraph or footnote.
 

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Realist now I suppose. I used to call myself a cynical optimist(things could be so awsome, but they never will get there because society is flawed.)
 

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A mixture between Cynic and Realist.
 

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I, as well, would select Realist (though "Independent, objective and impersonal - Cynic or Apathetic" is attractive) yet, I would not attempt to be a "decisive leader/mediator". Being as I would have arrived at my conclusions by "seeing from multiple angles", researching and 'honing-down' the possibilities and probabilities to the optimal framework before presenting my views, I would oversee implementation from 'behind the scenes' and not involve myself in the personal interaction and extroverted functioning necessary to be a 'leader'.

The "middle ground between Cynic and Optimist" would be the most intelligent and optimal threshold for arriving at a concise conclusion/framework/process. Any result that "satisfies everyone" would not necessarily be the "best alternative". Leadership or direction by concensus is derived usually from 'majority rule' which leaves dissenters as well as a core group of 'leaders' who prefer their own agenda in relation to the current debate over any other smaller groups or individuals - even if these other groups or individuals possess more effective conclusions/frameworks/processes.

Similar to being a "decisive leader/mediator", the thought of engaging in being "like a parent looking out for everyone's well-being" strikes me as being more INFJ than INTJ. I possess less concern for the well-being of others than the effectiveness of the conclusions. Being as "everyone's well-being" is difficult to define because the 'well-being' of an individual or small group more than likely differs from other individuals or small groups, "looking out for everyone's well-being" would unnecessarily and ineffectively hamper the execution of the conclusion(s).

Before considering whether the glass is "half empty and half full", I would deem it prudent to define the 'glass' as precisely and accurately as possible.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I'm starting to consider if I should have added in a couple more options to the poll, like "Skeptical, providing scrutiny (Cynic or Realist)" and "Middle ground, pondering (Realist or Conflicted)" after your comment in the thread. I'd have to start a new thread with a slightly different-worded title, but I know what words I'd add to the title if I do. Would people like me to?
 

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I would leave it as it is, as there may be additional options voiced by others.
No need to complicate the options further.
 

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Apathetic -- uninvested in the outcome (whether a bystander, mindlessly obedient servant, or an "opportunist" busy with a separate objective); stolid; fickle "wild card"; "drinks from the glass" while others are busy debating if it's "half empty" or "half full"
I can see myself in the apathy perspective, usually, I see everything without much of a tint of morality and emotion, just how it is.
Like the "Does God exist?" argument is pretty pointless. We would never find a definitive proof that one exists with our limited human minds and even if we did, would it satisfy our expectations or shatter them because God's a douche? Even then, so many rely on such an existence and revolve their lives around it, if it weren't existing anymore, they'll be spiritually vagrants without any idea of what to do knowing that everything they learned was wrong.
However, under such presence of evidence, there would be many who'll deny its existence, ergo, pointless.
 

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My problem here is I choose all of them...
 

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Formal affairs, indirectly personal (re: personal owned business / college debates - ingroup conflict/projects - teamwork is necessary for efficiency (certain work related scenarios suffice)), et al - Realist.

Formal affairs, directly impersonal - Work / professionalism - businesses - policies/politics; public-affairs (re: public ethics/public health) - community - et al - Cynic.

Informal affairs - directly personal - Intimate / romantics (re: coital - lovers / deep friendship / dealing with certain strangers) - et al, - Optimist.

Informal affairs - indirectly impersonal - certain familial conflicts - familiarity - in conflict/dramas (re: high-functioning emotionally complex-situation(s) that are best resolved without violence (and without strong reasoning skills) - some forms of Conflicted.


Informal affairs - directly impersonal - strangers in conflict/stranger personalized dramas/regulars - and/or stranger(s) not in need of immediate assistance; et al - Apathetic.
 

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I think we can get any point of view really , depend of the context.
agree with this. also: i enjoy discussion, but debate as a kind of mental workout that takes place within a constructed zero-sum framework does very little for me.
 

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I think I can be just as likely be the apathetic as the cynic. Conflicted sort of fits too, except that I am reluctant to get emotionally involved and want to stay independent so that I can be sure I am thinking for myself.
 

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Depends on topic, what is said and how it's said.
 
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