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Naw, they'd forget the things they thought up ;) (I always forget anything clever I've said, like random questions. So annoying!)
 

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Discussion Starter #23
INFJs are generally best at demolishing everything.
Last man standing.
Now if those same people could learn to put their considerable talents to constructive uses...
ive always believed we are the type that will build up something in our minds, and then we will get a new piece of information, and so we'll demolish it to try to rebuild it stronger, but the problem is with the conflicting data its like trying to build a building with only the + shaped tetris blocks so it takes an insanely huge amount of time to create a powerful thesis
 

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I don't think Plato was an INFJ, he might even have been an ENTJ, but we can never be sure (I also really doubt Wittgenstein was an INFJ and Whitehead might also have been a T, I don't know Plotinus and de Beauvoir well). Spinoza and Kierkegaard seem like INFJs, but it's almost impossible (it's guessing) to type people who you haven't met in person and you don't have many video recordings of.
There's a really strong internet consensus that Plato was INFJ, and my own reading of him leaves little to no doubt of that in my mind. His Fe is most apparent in 'The Republic' when he compares the nature of the human soul (pyche) to the social behavior manifested in the State (and whenever he talks about "The Good," "The Beautiful" and "The Virtuous," but I think his Ni-Ti is prevalent in almost all of his writings. It's also clear that he had inferior Se; he really didn't regard physical 'reality' as something to be trusted and preferred to focus on the "World of the Forms" (Ni).

Speaking of Ni-Ti, that's what (post-Tractatus) Wittgenstein was all about. The concept of 'language games' is essentially a systematic exploration of the Ni-Ti loop. His Fe isn't as apparent due to the troubles he had growing up with his family, but you can still see it in some of his writings if you look closely (namely his spiritual/mystical focus). Based on his biography it's also easy to see that he had inferior Se.

Spinoza probably was INFJ. I agree with you there. Keirkegaard, meanwhile, is controversial (either INFP or INFJ), but the majority side with the former, and I agree. His idea of of "teleological suspension of the ethical" is more Fi than Fe, and his writing style does not have the clarity or focus of a J type.
 

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There's a really strong internet consensus that Plato was INFJ, and my own reading of him leaves little to no doubt of that in my mind. His Fe is most apparent in 'The Republic' when he compares the nature of the human soul (pyche) to the social behavior manifested in the State (and whenever he talks about "The Good," "The Beautiful" and "The Virtuous," but I think his Ni-Ti is prevalent in almost all of his writings. It's also clear that he had inferior Se; he really didn't regard physical 'reality' as something to be trusted and preferred to focus on the "World of the Forms" (Ni).

Speaking of Ni-Ti, that's what (post-Tractatus) Wittgenstein was all about. The concept of 'language games' is essentially a systematic exploration of the Ni-Ti loop. His Fe isn't as apparent due to the troubles he had growing up with his family, but you can still see it in some of his writings if you look closely (namely his spiritual/mystical focus). Based on his biography it's also easy to see that he had inferior Se.

Spinoza probably was INFJ. I agree with you there. Keirkegaard, meanwhile, is controversial (either INFP or INFJ), but the majority side with the former, and I agree. His idea of of "teleological suspension of the ethical" is more Fi than Fe, and his writing style does not have the clarity or focus of a J type.
I think it's great that you researched this, I haven't, I just know about MBTI and about Philosophy. The things you say sound reasonable, the main objection I have is that much of typing people from the past is guessing and you can focus on many things to make your case. People want big names like Plato and Wittgenstein to be INFJs, but it seems to me a bit unlikely that a big part of the most famous philosophers ever are INFJs, when it is such a rare type. Plato was also described as being broad, he was involved and interested in politics, he puts much emphasis on power, he writes in dialogues he wasn't involved in himself (he never speaks in his own voice), he wasn't present on Socrates' last day and he's very harsh towards some people (mostly sophists); there are many con arguments, just like there are many pro arguments; isn't it just wishful thinking (it might be correct that he was an INFJ, but it doesn't seem very certain and therefore doesn't seem right as an argument for us INFJs being good at philosophy)? That some INFJ aspects aren't as apparent in Wittgenstein is also an indicator that it might be having a hammer and looking for nails (that point to them being INFJs). You might be right about all of them (you're probably right about Spinoza and Kierkegaard), but I wouldn't be as sure as you are. Thank you for the discussion though.
 

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I think it's great that you researched this, I haven't, I just know about MBTI and about Philosophy. The things you say sound reasonable, the main objection I have is that much of typing people from the past is guessing and you can focus on many things to make your case. People want big names like Plato and Wittgenstein to be INFJs, but it seems to me a bit unlikely that a big part of the most famous philosophers ever are INFJs, when it is such a rare type. Plato was also described as being broad, he was involved and interested in politics, he puts much emphasis on power, he writes in dialogues he wasn't involved in himself (he never speaks in his own voice), he wasn't present on Socrates' last day and he's very harsh towards some people (mostly sophists); there are many con arguments, just like there are many pro arguments; isn't it just wishful thinking (it might be correct that he was an INFJ, but it doesn't seem very certain and therefore doesn't seem right as an argument for us INFJs being good at philosophy)? That some INFJ aspects aren't as apparent in Wittgenstein is also an indicator that it might be having a hammer and looking for nails (that point to them being INFJs). You might be right about all of them (you're probably right about Spinoza and Kierkegaard), but I wouldn't be as sure as you are. Thank you for the discussion though.
Yeah, I started analyzing philosophers by cognitive function preference after a discussion in my 'Modern Philosophy' class regarding the role of family background, temperament (in a general sense of the word; no model of personality was mentioned), and alleged physical/mental 'issues' in influencing a philosopher's ideas. Some people balked at the mere possibility that these factors should be taken seriously, preferring merely to take their ideas at 'face-value.' I was intrigued though. So, in order to form a solid opinion on the matter I started analyzing whoever we were reading (and anyone I've read before) to see if their type could be ascertained. Not surprisingly (to me at least) most of the time its pretty easy to type them based off of how they reason and what ideas they cherish; not to mention how their systems were built in response (either in appraisal, criticism, or some combination thereof) to those that came before them. The ways in which they disagree also makes sense in light of their difference in temperament.

I mention this only to show why I'm as confident in my assertions as I am (especially since others on the internet who have noticed this trend seem to match up pretty closely to my estimations). That said, when I said their types were "confirmed" I definitely set the road up for misunderstanding. My bad on the word choice :crazy:

Don't worry, I'm not going to go around spouting this as "objective truth" (especially considering I have a temperament bias of my own). I'll be careful to phrase things better next time :wink:
 

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INFJs ARE philosophical...i also love philosophy.
i wanted to recommend a good book to all u philosophers- Sophie's World by Jostein Gaarder
Has anyone already read it?
 

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All speculation:

I think that harmony-obsessed trait tends to make us more spiritually-inclined than the INTs. I'm a fairly serious skeptical atheist (read: strong agnostic), and I've trained myself to check pretty much everything through my Ti, but I still feel constantly pulled towards the spiritual, metaphysical, paradoxical, and unknowable. For me at least, this pull is definitely driven by a need for harmony. I can't just flatly turn anything down. I could write you a lengthy paper discussing the cultural evolution and origins of religion and spirituality, but I will never feel like that's all there is to it.

Starting off loving western philosophy, I went on my rebellious eastern philosophy phase when I was released into the world (after high school) and at this point I see neurotic nut-cases when I read western philosophy and ambiguous simpletons when I read eastern philosophy. :laughing: Really though, I love them both. I try to take the "middle path" :wink: and incorporate them both.

I'm sure you'll see a lot of harmony-seeking in all of this, and I think that's probably why INFJs and INFPs could start a philosophy club. In this club, INFJs would be doing the writing and trying to put our ideas into a structure and the INFPs would be keeping us on our toes the whole time.

That was all @Souled In, but to answer the OP, yes. I think living in abstraction qualifies us to be some of the better philosophers (and philosophims). :wink:

P.S. I promise I'll eventually cut down on emoticon use.
 

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@Vaan I'd say they are, I personally am of the opinion that the best function for philosophy is Nx at any rate. Ni works on seeing perspectives that are not always seen by others, making it naturally good for the subject of philosophy since that is essentially how some questions within philosphy work. There are of course so many fields in philosophy and so many subfields and so on that make philosophy pretty good for nearly every type. Ludwig Wittgenstien was an INFJ he is arguably the greatest philosopher that there has been. While Neitszche was an INTJ... Neither of these men made something completely new, they rather looked at already existing philosophies and amalgamated them with their own thoughts...


An interesting thing I recently discovered was if you read "Thus Spake Zarathustra" alonside the New Testament you find that Nietszche pretty much copied it in its format and the way the story flows but put in his own message, when looking for this the similarities are striking.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
@Vaan I'd say they are, I personally am of the opinion that the best function for philosophy is Nx at any rate. Ni works on seeing perspectives that are not always seen by others, making it naturally good for the subject of philosophy since that is essentially how some questions within philosphy work. There are of course so many fields in philosophy and so many subfields and so on that make philosophy pretty good for nearly every type. Ludwig Wittgenstien was an INFJ he is arguably the greatest philosopher that there has been. While Neitszche was an INTJ... Neither of these men made something completely new, they rather looked at already existing philosophies and amalgamated them with their own thoughts...


An interesting thing I recently discovered was if you read "Thus Spake Zarathustra" alonside the New Testament you find that Nietszche pretty much copied it in its format and the way the story flows but put in his own message, when looking for this the similarities are striking.
Yeah i think that INFJ's are better for Philosophies that require a more fluid style of logic such as Philosophies regarding human nature etc.

Ugh i abhore Neitszche, he irritates me to no end with his existientilism :/
 
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Yeah i think that INFJ's are better for Philosophies that require a more fluid style of logic such as Philosophies regarding human nature etc.

Ugh i abhore Neitszche, he irritates me to no end with his existientilism :/

Really? The two main parts of philosophy that I adore are the philosophy of language and existentialism, a big fan of scepticism, however Sartre pretty much wrapped that one up, INTJ as well I believe...

From what I've seen most philosophers are- INTP ENTP INTJ INFJ INFP.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Really? The two main parts of philosophy that I adore are the philosophy of language and existentialism, a big fan of scepticism, however Sartre pretty much wrapped that one up, INTJ as well I believe...

From what I've seen most philosophers are- INTP ENTP INTJ INFJ INFP.
I'm just my own style, and take bits and pieces from everywhere, but for me existientialism seems quite pointless, it'd be like Gnosticism without the religion :/
 
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All speculation:

I think that harmony-obsessed trait tends to make us more spiritually-inclined than the INTs. I'm a fairly serious skeptical atheist (read: strong agnostic), and I've trained myself to check pretty much everything through my Ti, but I still feel constantly pulled towards the spiritual, metaphysical, paradoxical, and unknowable. For me at least, this pull is definitely driven by a need for harmony. I can't just flatly turn anything down. I could write you a lengthy paper discussing the cultural evolution and origins of religion and spirituality, but I will never feel like that's all there is to it.

Starting off loving western philosophy, I went on my rebellious eastern philosophy phase when I was released into the world (after high school) and at this point I see neurotic nut-cases when I read western philosophy and ambiguous simpletons when I read eastern philosophy. :laughing: Really though, I love them both. I try to take the "middle path" :wink: and incorporate them both.

I'm sure you'll see a lot of harmony-seeking in all of this, and I think that's probably why INFJs and INFPs could start a philosophy club. In this club, INFJs would be doing the writing and trying to put our ideas into a structure and the INFPs would be keeping us on our toes the whole time.

That was all @Souled In , but to answer the OP, yes. I think living in abstraction qualifies us to be some of the better philosophers (and philosophims). :wink:

P.S. I promise I'll eventually cut down on emoticon use.
T vs. F.

F= Magic
T= Empirical

Just figured I'd cut to the chase. I'm only 75% magic though, lol.

That being said, I feel the only way to be spiritual is right in the "center peace" of T and F.

N and S is much more simple, and not complex, and is more about the style or art form we use to reach the spirituality.

But the T and F deals with much more complex thought, and complex values that can actually decide NOT to become spiritual with conscious behavior.

Too much F, and we do drugs or screw shampoo bottles. (jk for effect)

Too much T, and we never decide what we "like" enough to use our J function productively.

What we like as in our tastes= F, because we can't explain how we got them.

We can explain what they are, and sort of why we have them, but not "why" as far as solving the big bang.

Therefore it is a magical F! Woot!

Lol I hope its ok that I am more relaxed here with my descriptions :) There are certain subforums I think I will never post in again.
 

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Too much F, and we do drugs or screw shampoo bottles. (jk for effect)
Too much T, and we never decide what we "like" enough to use our J function productively.
My life in two sentences. :laughing:

Lol I hope its ok that I am more relaxed here with my descriptions :) There are certain subforums I think I will never post in again.
I know what you mean. I think you're safe here... *looks around cautiously*
 
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