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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
1. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.
[native german is writing...so please ignore any mistakes! :wink:]

At the moment i feel healthy (physical and psychological). Perhaps this is a good time to start my first type-me-thread about the Mbti and the functions?

I long thought such a thing is not necessary, as i thought myself capable enough to learn the functions and know myself.

But...i am not so confident anymore. I think we are (alone) not able to see ourselves clearly enough. And i've had good experiences with an enneagram-type-me-thread, which get me in the direction of the 6(w7). Something i, alone, would never seriously have thought. I was quite sure i was a 4, 5 or 9, because i see myself as extremely introverted etc. But now, after help of the community here, i can see the 6 in myself, which explains a lot.

But not all...

So i am writing this, because i think it's possible i am not seeing myself objectively enough. I tested a lot as INFP. I get doubts a lot. Thought i could be INTP, INFJ, ENFP or even ENTP. And again INFP.

But perhaps i am a Sensor after all and didn't quite get the N/S-thing? Who knows?

So i need your advice. :tongue:

Btw: I am 27 years old, a guy and in doubting modus. :cool:


2. What type(s) do you usually score as on tests?
See above. I can be anything i want to be, i think. Often i get INFP, but INTP or INFJ is also possible. Generally i think of myself as an introvert so this sure influences my answers at tests.

Because i've got a problem with touchy-feely-butterfly-images i often doubt my INFP-tests. I often get back to INFP, because a lot of info says they are "cold, difficult to know and hide their feelings/opinions".


3. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Choose 2 photos and look at each for as long as you feel that you need. Copy and paste the photos here (or write the link like example: www[dot]flickr[dot]com/photos/jacoboson/8697480741/in/explore-2013-05-01), and write your impression of each of them.

[Seychelles | Flickr - Photo Sharing!]
Dreamland! I would like to live at such a place. Have a lot of books, go swimming and enjoy my life! I don't think, that it could get boring! It's away from dirty citys, rats and other ugly things. A free live, without other people, who expect something of you. Paradise!

[Ore 6,30 (versione colore) - Hour 6,30 (color version ) | Flickr - Photo Sharing!]
Inspiration. Fantasy-land! Golden glowing sun (gold, dark yellow are my favorite colours btw) enters nature. The fog clouds the sky/nature. Secrets. Mystery, Adventure. Good old times? :tongue:

4. You are on the clock to fix something, a friend of yours sits beside you and gives a lot of interesting ideas, none of them actually help or are related to your situation, but they are still something you find interesting. What is your reaction? What do you say? What do you do? What's your train of thought?
I don't want to hurt my friend and i would try to show him that i am listening. But i am not so much listening as my friend would think, because i have to do this fixing (i think?). I wouldn't want to do this work, but i can't help it. When i had the chance to cancel this work/fixing, i would. Hearing the thoughts of my friend, idea-generating and brainstorming is much more fun whether it's useful or not...

5a. What are some of your most important values?
Yeah, that's difficult, but i'll will try:

- loyalty
- don't crush others dreams (what's the point of this? if these are indeed unrealistic shit, than the world is more than happy to destroy them anyway...why force things? Perhaps it's not so unrealistic as you think?)
- don't hurt anybody when you have the chance to avoid it
- everybody has some strength, you only have to find it...


5b. Can they change? What would be the reason if they changed?
I think the only reason why values change, is, when you get in conflict because of them. Perhaps two values contradict themselves (be straight forward and don't hurt anybody?) or the world pushes you to change yourself and your values. Perhaps you also learn other/new values on the way. Something like an update?


6. You are in a car with some other people, the people in the car are talking. Someone makes a claim that you see as immoral/rude/cruel. What is your inward reaction? What do you think? What do you say?
I would think that it's not ok to say something likes this and this person surely will lose something of my respect. But i would'nt say anything. People see the world, as they do. I don't believe you can change them. If there is somebody hurt, who doesn't defends himself, perhaps i would go to him after the ride and say, that i don't think like the cruel/rude/immoral one in the car.

Perhaps, when i know the other people in the car (family, best friends etc.), i would say something. I am not sure.


7. a) What activities energizes you the most? Why?
Reading, watching anime or other series. Playing in general. I like to be moderator (trivia games, discussion etc). I like to help people by coaching/giving advice, IF they come to me. Brainstorming...


7. b) What activities drains you the most? Why?
Talk on the phone. (Micro-)Manage other people against their will. Be honest, critisize. A lot of strangers around me a lot of the time. Have nothing to do at work and behave as i were busy. Planning.

8. Do you believe you are introverted or extraverted? Why do you believe that? (Please be as detailed as possible)
I think i am introverted, because i need a lot of alone time. I don't like small talk and/or strangers. Quality before quantity. I don't need a lot of people in my life. I can entertain myself quite good, when i've got books, a laptop or the internet. I am cautious with other people and don't like to talk about myself (at first). I am shy. I think i am introspective and look at myself, how i function etc.
I am often not interested in the "objective" world. It's boring.


9. Please describe yourself, what do you see as your greatest strengths and what do you see as your greatest weaknesses?
strengths:
- creative (story-plotting, brainstorming, concepts)
- thoughtful
- cautious
- witty
- loyal

weaknesses:
- thoughtful
- cautious
- indecisive
- shy
- weak


10. Please describe yourself when you are feeling stressed. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome.
When in stress-mode, i become sarcastic, hard on the outside, but fearful inside. I think a lot of things can go wrong and so i am much more unsure of myself than normal. I have low confidence in myself.

I've got a lot of stress as a teaching-assistant. Planing a lesson with A LOT of variables, which could go wrong, being critisized for not being able to handle these situations at the moment AND make a good lesson in the same time. I had no self-confidence and when being critisized only nodded, because i thought they were right after all. At home i didn't want to discuss any of this. I talked almost never and when i got questioned i was very short-lipped or sarcastic.
I hate problems and conflict...

11. What is your "soft spot" (the area that makes you upset if people mess with)?
I don't like it, when my family humour me about my "know-it-all", because i never say that i know everything! i only question some believes or thickheadedness.

I don't want to be looked down on. I don't want to be weak or get pity. I don't want to be a clueless-nerd and i don't want to show my emotions. I don't want to be vulnerable!


12. What are most of the ideas/thoughts you get generally centered around (try to expand your answers as much as possible)?
Fiction! Stories (inventing/combining). Role-Playing. People. Why so? Seeing how (fictional) people behave as they do...psychological functioning. To find associations in stories and about life in general. Love relationships, how do they find each other? Who can be together? Speculations! What if...

13. What's your opinion of getting frequent feedback on what you do? (Someone pointing out what is good, what is bad, what and how to improve) Is there a limit to how often you want feedback? If so, what is the limit?
I am not quite sure, whether i like feedback. Because if it's negative feedback, i quickly lose all my confidence, because i am my worst critic. On the other side, i think we need feedback to get it right about ourselves. One reason, why i write this post, right now. :tongue:

So, feedback is ok, when i ask for it. It's not so good, when somebody gives it without asking.


14. Anything beyond what has been discussed that you would like to add?
I am not so sure, if this information is enough, so i encourage you guys do dig deeper. Today, i am in INFP-mood, which influences my answers, i think. The past weeks i was more in INTP-mood. Perhaps you would have gotten other answers?

Perhaps you should have this in mind, when you analyse me?

And please ask questions, i really like to answer them!
:wink:
 

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[Seychelles | Flickr - Photo Sharing!]
Dreamland! I would like to live at such a place. Have a lot of books, go swimming and enjoy my life! I don't think, that it could get boring! It's away from dirty citys, rats and other ugly things. A free live, without other people, who expect something of you. Paradise!

[Ore 6,30 (versione colore) - Hour 6,30 (color version ) | Flickr - Photo Sharing!]
Inspiration. Fantasy-land! Golden glowing sun (gold, dark yellow are my favorite colours btw) enters nature. The fog clouds the sky/nature. Secrets. Mystery, Adventure. Good old times? :tongue:
This here sounds pretty INFP

I don't want to hurt my friend and i would try to show him that i am listening. But i am not so much listening as my friend would think, because i have to do this fixing (i think?). I wouldn't want to do this work, but i can't help it. When i had the chance to cancel this work/fixing, i would. Hearing the thoughts of my friend, idea-generating and brainstorming is much more fun whether it's useful or not...
I highlighted useful or not, since this points more to the P function. J's typically don't do much without some purpose. Also this sounds very Fe as well.
- don't crush others dreams (what's the point of this? if these are indeed unrealistic shit, than the world is more than happy to destroy them anyway...why force things? Perhaps it's not so unrealistic as you think?)
- don't hurt anybody when you have the chance to avoid it
- everybody has some strength, you only have to find it...
Fe

I think the only reason why values change, is, when you get in conflict because of them. Perhaps two values contradict themselves (be straight forward and don't hurt anybody?) or the world pushes you to change yourself and your values. Perhaps you also learn other/new values on the way. Something like an update?
Fe, if it was Fi like INFP you would place higher importance on your values and less apt to change the very important ones to you but more readily defend those values. You seem open and willing to change yours.


Talk on the phone. (Micro-)Manage other people against their will. Be honest, critisize. A lot of strangers around me a lot of the time. Have nothing to do at work and behave as i were busy. Planning.
Pi, This sounds like a pretty strong Pi response.

hate problems and conflict...
non confrontational sounds like INFP

I don't like it, when my family humour me about my "know-it-all", because i never say that i know everything! i only question some believes or thickheadedness.
Ne does a lot of questioning, in some Ne doms I know they are portrayed as a "know it all"

Fiction! Stories (inventing/combining). Role-Playing. People. Why so? Seeing how (fictional) people behave as they do...psychological functioning. To find associations in stories and about life in general. Love relationships, how do they find each other? Who can be together? Speculations! What if...
Ne

I am not quite sure, whether i like feedback. Because if it's negative feedback, i quickly lose all my confidence, because i am my worst critic. On the other side, i think we need feedback to get it right about ourselves. One reason, why i write this post, right now. :tongue:
From how this is written I would say ESFJ Fe-Si-Ne-Ti.
But I think that's because I don't have enough information to go off from.


Fe dominant because
You put a lot of emphasis on not wanting to offend others and trying to understand their feelings or intentions. You want to jump in their shoes to understand them and help others feel happy.

Si second
lookin for associations in life, how does something relate to a past experience. Since this is internally focused it is hard to see in writing.

Ne tertiary
trys to build on an external framework, always asks what if. Example "but what if the moon falls in the road and you can't get to work, then you would be late. Also how would we put the moon back?" Ne is a fun trait, always has crazy, fun, new ideas. A lot of Ne I know give great advice as well.

Ti last
organizing, internal organization. You may have your own way to organize that doesn't always make sense to others. Also you like your thoughts to be clear and orderly, Like a power point in your head.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
You sound like a very clear INFP....at least today :happy:
Thanks for your advice...
...but i am interested! The next post suggests i am an ESFJ. Your profile says ENFJ so perhaps you can elaborate about differences with INFP, ESFJ and yourself? That would be a great help! :wink:

From how this is written I would say ESFJ Fe-Si-Ne-Ti.
But I think that's because I don't have enough information to go off from.
Wow, THAT is really interesting! But it's exactly what i need: A fresh perspective!

What information do you need to get an even better analysis? I would really like to hand you that information!

Fe dominant because
You put a lot of emphasis on not wanting to offend others and trying to understand their feelings or intentions. You want to jump in their shoes to understand them and help others feel happy.
Yeah. But with dom-Fe i would have the problem that i am quite introverted AND (perhaps more important) i've something of a live-and-let-live-approach of life. I think Fe is more active in influencing life of others (to make it better). I am MUCH more passive about this...

Any thoughts?

Si second
lookin for associations in life, how does something relate to a past experience. Since this is internally focused it is hard to see in writing.
Yeah, i am quite sure about my Si-Ne (instead of Se-Ni). But Si more prominent than Ne? Why do you think that?

Ne tertiary
trys to build on an external framework, always asks what if. Example "but what if the moon falls in the road and you can't get to work, then you would be late. Also how would we put the moon back?" Ne is a fun trait, always has crazy, fun, new ideas. A lot of Ne I know give great advice as well.
Ok, but see above.

Ti last
organizing, internal organization. You may have your own way to organize that doesn't always make sense to others. Also you like your thoughts to be clear and orderly, Like a power point in your head.
Ti-inferior... i don't have a picture about that in my mind yet. But i wouldn't say it's impossible. Because i really would like to be a great thinker! :cool:
 

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I agree with your INFP score.

Why are you doubting in particular? Did you read something about INFPs that didn't resonate, or do you know INFPs on or offline and they don't seem to think how you would think? Not sure where your doubt stems from.

Let's put it another way: what makes you think you're not an INFP?
 

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Actually I would have to say that is Fi since you aren't just thinking about how something makes others feel but how it relates back to your value. (Disliking harsh criticism)

- don't crush others dreams (what's the point of this? if these are indeed unrealistic shit, than the world is more than happy to destroy them anyway...why force things? Perhaps it's not so unrealistic as you think?)- don't hurt anybody when you have the chance to avoid it
- everybody has some strength, you only have to find it...
I thought this sounded Fe but actually it could just be Fi, your relating your personal value of disliking criticism back to how you think nobody should have to experience that sort of negativity. Looking at it this way, I can see how this is clearly Fi. :blushed: Oops.

I had no other reason to put Si in the second position, other than it fit with Fe - Ne. From this I believe You are a F dominant type. I don't pay much mind to the third and last function since those along with introverted functions are hard to type especially online. So really I am basing a lot of judgement on your first two functions, which you seem to be using most.
Being INFP would put your stacking like.. Fi Ne Si Te.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I agree with your INFP score.

Why are you doubting in particular? Did you read something about INFPs that didn't resonate, or do you know INFPs on or offline and they don't seem to think how you would think? Not sure where your doubt stems from.

Let's put it another way: what makes you think you're not an INFP?
Good question! :tongue:

So, i am going into detail about my doubts:

1. Fi is often portrayed as a "whiny Crusader/Drama-Queen/Emo", because of strong feelings AND values, which they wouldn't compromise. I am not quite sure, whether Fi or Fe is more active as a crusader. Fi should be about live-and-let-live (i could strongly identify with this), but also about a lot of intensity (crusader, when somebody hurts their values?!). Fe is more extraverted, and though stronger, BUT: It's about external harmony and conventions. Would they crusade (against society-values, which they adore?)

I am not sure. But i can't really identify with the crusader-image, because even if i don't like something or even hate it, i wouldn't run on the streets to demonstrate etc.
I hate it, when something of my inner thoughts/feelings come out. In some descriptions this is Fi, in others Fi is far more "in your face"/demonstrating/etc (because Te is always a factor when we talk about Fi).

2. I am searching for patterns in psychology. I can really relate to the pattern of the INTP (here: Personality Junkie: Type Tests, Profiles, Careers, & Relationships). This site is mostly written by an INTP and i can identify with these patterns. Not so much with the INFP. I think.
(Note: I am not so sure anymore, that i know myself that good. Perhaps it's more about who i want to be? I don't know!)

3. I have an interest in writing and "typical" INFP-fields (and i write more like a "typical-INFP", imho). But in objective career-tests i mostly score high in mathematical/informatics-related competences, not so much in the "soft communication-field". So it's imho quite possible that i long thought to be an artsy-INFP, but in reality i am much more header-type...

4. Yeah, the "header". I am quite confident about my enneagram 6w7 (head-lead), so this could explain, why i am a more "distant" INFP and not so into the feely-thing. But it also could be that i am a dom-head (Ti?) and my (childish) feelings come from my inferior (Fe). Others often see me as a thinker, not a feeler or spiritual person (although i am interested in these fields!).

5. I asked a good (and long) friend of mine. And he thought i would be an INTP (btw: i was in INTP-mood at that time). And he thought i talked/behaved like this: TiNe Visually Reading Type

This could all be a battle of Fi(dom) and Te(inferior). But i am not so sure. What do you think?

Actually I would have to say that is Fi since you aren't just thinking about how something makes others feel but how it relates back to your value. (Disliking harsh criticism)

I thought this sounded Fe but actually it could just be Fi, your relating your personal value of disliking criticism back to how you think nobody should have to experience that sort of negativity. Looking at it this way, I can see how this is clearly Fi. :blushed: Oops.

I had no other reason to put Si in the second position, other than it fit with Fe - Ne. From this I believe You are a F dominant type. I don't pay much mind to the third and last function since those along with introverted functions are hard to type especially online. So really I am basing a lot of judgement on your first two functions, which you seem to be using most.
Being INFP would put your stacking like.. Fi Ne Si Te.
No problem! If you hadn't confused these two (in these transparant way for me), i hadn't got your explanation, which is quite good!

I could see that i like seeing my values in other persons i admire (loyality eg). I also can see that my values have something to do with difficult situations of mine (especially the "crushing-dreams"-part). So thank you!

I really would appreciate your opionion about my doubts (above)!


I'd say INFP. Lots of Fi and Ne in your answers.
Thanks! Perhaps you also have an advice about my ramblings above? :happy:
 
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t
Thanks for your advice...
...but i am interested! The next post suggests i am an ESFJ. Your profile says ENFJ so perhaps you can elaborate about differences with INFP, ESFJ and yourself? That would be a great help! :wink:
I just get this INFP vibe about you in general...I see a lot of Fi in your post, and not enough Ti to warrant Ti-domness. An interest in how people work, consideration for other people's dreams, creative pursuits...it all sounds very Fi to me and unlike any of the INTPs I know. They have much more of a philosophical vibe to them and would probably put something like "discovering the secrets of the universe" as their greatest value, not something related to people (as this is their weak spot).

Don't let the stereotyoes about INFPs affect you...not all of them are whiny emo artists who love cuddling, pink bunnies and rainbows :happy: They can also be great mathematicians and very intellectual, you don't have to be a thinker to have a brain :happy:


Still interested in those differences, btw? :happy:


Oh yeah, as a Fe-dom I'm into crusading too, but more in a "let's help these people" kind of way than in a "let's fight for this cause" way. For example, if I see a thread titled with a pleading "Please, don't overlook my thread", I just have to jump in and help :kitteh:
 
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1. Fi is often portrayed as a "whiny Crusader/Drama-Queen/Emo", because of strong feelings AND values, which they wouldn't compromise. I am not quite sure, whether Fi or Fe is more active as a crusader. Fi should be about live-and-let-live (i could strongly identify with this), but also about a lot of intensity (crusader, when somebody hurts their values?!). Fe is more extraverted, and though stronger, BUT: It's about external harmony and conventions. Would they crusade (against society-values, which they adore?)
my boss is an INFP, I have a pretty strong example recently he portrayed his Fi to the point he almost lost his job. Something had gone wrong and the INFP was not at fault, so his boss (ESTJ) called him and screamed the ESTJ became very irrational, insulting, and unprofessional. My INFP boss defended his position, defended his employees, and defended his values (be treated with respect). In the end our phone was broken. The Fi function is not a whiny crusader, but a defender in right and wrong. I see them as being strong, the attitude of "this job isn't that important for me to be walked all over." I find is commendable, pick and choose your battles and I find he is very rational about the battles he chooses to fight.
In another scenario, a coworker had asked INFP boss to borrow money (20$) because he needed food, the next week this coworker bought two horses and a 700$ vacuum. The INFP boss said nothing about it, so I asked "why didn't you say something? Why not tell him that was wrong?" In response I got "well he needed the money, and it's not a big problem to me."


I am not sure. But i can't really identify with the crusader-image, because even if i don't like something or even hate it, i wouldn't run on the streets to demonstrate etc. I hate it, when something of my inner thoughts/feelings come out. In some descriptions this is Fi, in others Fi is far more "in your face"/demonstrating/etc (because Te is always a factor when we talk about Fi).
this is pretty normal for INFP, usually the things you defend will be very strong values to you, but since you typically dislike confrontation you don't go out looking for protests. The threat has to come to your house and knock on your door before you will typically defend it. Fi isn't "in your face"

3. I have an interest in writing and "typical" INFP-fields (and i write more like a "typical-INFP", imho). But in objective career-tests i mostly score high in mathematical/informatics-related competences, not so much in the "soft communication-field". So it's imho quite possible that i long thought to be an artsy-INFP, but in reality i am much more header-type...
how you write is irrelevant since MBTI is based off how you perceive the world. I could write an article like an ESFP but still be an INTJ.

4. Yeah, the "header". I am quite confident about my enneagram 6w7 (head-lead), so this could explain, why i am a more "distant" INFP and not so into the feely-thing. But it also could be that i am a dom-head (Ti?) and my (childish) feelings come from my inferior (Fe). Others often see me as a thinker, not a feeler or spiritual person (although i am interested in these fields!).
Well, I am not sure how enneagram really relates to MBTI type. I can't help you here.


5. I asked a good (and long) friend of mine. And he thought i would be an INTP (btw: i was in INTP-mood at that time). And he thought i talked/behaved like this: TiNe Visually Reading Type
This could all be a battle of Fi(dom) and Te(inferior). But i am not so sure. What do you think?
This website looks interesting, but I don't have the time tonight to review that in depth. I also don't know you in person to see how you react to even compare. But I wonder how much they actually get right?

To me, it sounds like you may be rejecting being an INFP. I like all the INFP's I meet though, they are great people so don't disregard the type because you don't want to be a feeler. :happy:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
t

I just get this INFP vibe about you in general...I see a lot of Fi in your post, and not enough Ti to warrant Ti-domness. An interest in how people work, consideration for other people's dreams, creative pursuits...it all sounds very Fi to me and unlike any of the INTPs I know. They have much more of a philosophical vibe to them and would probably put something like "discovering the secrets of the universe" as their greatest value, not something related to people (as this is their weak spot).

Don't let the stereotyoes about INFPs affect you...not all of them are whiny emo artists who love cuddling, pink bunnies and rainbows :happy: They can also be great mathematicians and very intellectual, you don't have to be a thinker to have a brain :happy:
Yeah, i know stereotypes are bad and shouldn't be taken too serious (and yeah i know that not every "cuddling, pink bunnie" is ALWAYS in this mood etc.)...

...BUT: I think every stereotype has some true core, because if not, it wouldn't be a stereotype for long!

But i think i can isolate my problem now. It goes in the direction of function pairs, FiTe or TiFe. More specifically:

Am i a Fi-Dom or an Fe-Inferior? I guess you would vote for Fi-Dom, yeah? :tongue:

Some Fe-inferior-descriptions sound also like me, but it seems that Fi-Dom is the healthy way i am operating...

Still interested in those differences, btw? :happy:

Oh yeah, as a Fe-dom I'm into crusading too, but more in a "let's help these people" kind of way than in a "let's fight for this cause" way. For example, if I see a thread titled with a pleading "Please, don't overlook my thread", I just have to jump in and help :kitteh:
Hehe, i got you! :cool: Very nice idea with the pleading, eh? :wink: It's always difficult to attract people to your thread with a few words...

So i understand your Fe a lot better. And i am more confident now that Fe-dom is not my favourite suit. I like people, who care and help, a lot. But i am much more on the introverted side and i never can be sure whether people like to being helped or not. So i am much more passive...

my boss is an INFP, I have a pretty strong example recently he portrayed his Fi to the point he almost lost his job. Something had gone wrong and the INFP was not at fault, so his boss (ESTJ) called him and screamed the ESTJ became very irrational, insulting, and unprofessional. My INFP boss defended his position, defended his employees, and defended his values (be treated with respect). In the end our phone was broken. The Fi function is not a whiny crusader, but a defender in right and wrong. I see them as being strong, the attitude of "this job isn't that important for me to be walked all over." I find is commendable, pick and choose your battles and I find he is very rational about the battles he chooses to fight.
In another scenario, a coworker had asked INFP boss to borrow money (20$) because he needed food, the next week this coworker bought two horses and a 700$ vacuum. The INFP boss said nothing about it, so I asked "why didn't you say something? Why not tell him that was wrong?" In response I got "well he needed the money, and it's not a big problem to me."
I can identify with your boss, yeah. Thanks for your example! (in a few hours, days, weeks i still will doubt my type, because i will ask myself: How could he know the type of his boss for sure? :frustrating:)

Especially the second example would be exactly my reaction, i think!

this is pretty normal for INFP, usually the things you defend will be very strong values to you, but since you typically dislike confrontation you don't go out looking for protests. The threat has to come to your house and knock on your door before you will typically defend it. Fi isn't "in your face"
Very nice point, indeed. The confrontation-thing is something you read a lot about INFP and i can totally relate to that.


This website looks interesting, but I don't have the time tonight to review that in depth. I also don't know you in person to see how you react to even compare. But I wonder how much they actually get right
It's a nice side. I can see some true patterns there, yeah, but i also have the same doubts you have about that. Personality IS about patterns, yeah, but the more you go into detail, the more obscure the thing becomes.

e.g.: There are millions of reasons you nod the way you do or why you love the colour red. Without more data it's not useful to conclude anything in these single facts.

To me, it sounds like you may be rejecting being an INFP. I like all the INFP's I meet though, they are great people so don't disregard the type because you don't want to be a feeler. :happy:
Probably it's my inferior Te speaking, who desperatly wants to be integrated? :wink:

Yeah, i would like to be a cool and smart thinker and no irrational feeler. But what's quite more harmful for me, is lying to myself about how i think and feel. And i understand that INFP are a lot more "contemplative" than most folks, can be smart, loyal etc.

And as Jung said: “Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.”
 
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But i think i can isolate my problem now. It goes in the direction of function pairs, FiTe or TiFe. More specifically:Am i a Fi-Dom or an Fe-Inferior? I guess you would vote for Fi-Dom, yeah?

Some Fe-inferior-descriptions sound also like me, but it seems that Fi-Dom is the healthy way i am operating...
so this was not all in vain, we have narrowed your type down to Fi or Ti dom for you. :crazy: The final decision is yours, which do you most relate to? Take some time to look at how you respond to situations. Notes from conversations and such might help you. The important thing is you are always leaning something new about yourself and using that to grow into someone better. Good Luck.
 
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So, i am going into detail about my doubts:
Perhaps you also have an advice about my ramblings above?
Okay, here goes:

1. Fi is often portrayed as a "whiny Crusader/Drama-Queen/Emo", because of strong feelings AND values, which they wouldn't compromise. I am not quite sure, whether Fi or Fe is more active as a crusader. Fi should be about live-and-let-live (i could strongly identify with this), but also about a lot of intensity (crusader, when somebody hurts their values?!). Fe is more extraverted, and though stronger, BUT: It's about external harmony and conventions. Would they crusade (against society-values, which they adore?)

I am not sure. But i can't really identify with the crusader-image, because even if i don't like something or even hate it, i wouldn't run on the streets to demonstrate etc.
I hate it, when something of my inner thoughts/feelings come out. In some descriptions this is Fi, in others Fi is far more "in your face"/demonstrating/etc (because Te is always a factor when we talk about Fi).
I myself personally think that the Fi = crusader thing is bullshit as related to activism. Not that Fi-doms can't be involved in such things, but the idea that it is a defining characteristic - hell no.

I once had a discussion/argument with an INFP on this site who argued that without Fi there would be no social change. We went back and forth and I finally asked her what social movement/activism experience she had and the answer was NONE.

Compare that with me, INFJ Fe-aux, who spent twenty years involved in various social movement contexts (so yes, Fe-aux in an INFJ at least is quite consistent with activism, though truth be told I questioned it just as I question everything).

Anyway, back to the Fi=crusader thing. I did find it funny that the INFP insisting on a connection like that had no lived experience doing what she insisted Fi is uniquely suited to do, while I had the lived experience with activism as a Fe-aux. And when I told my INFP mate about it, she laughed because she has no activist background either, we've known for a while that that's an interesting difference between us (I don't do it anymore, so she's never seen this side of me all the way active, but it's a huge part of my life and history).

As for Fi as Drama-Queen/Emo: I'd be more inclined to describe the Fi core as stubbornness about the internal value matrix. How that stubbornness shows up seems to me to vary with other factors like enneagram type. My INFP is 9w8 and tends toward stoicism and withdrawal with a lot of suppressed anger underneath that can come out when her core values are violated. I'd never describe her as emo or a drama-queen.

Okay. Next? :)

2. I am searching for patterns in psychology. I can really relate to the pattern of the INTP (here: Personality Junkie: Type Tests, Profiles, Careers, & Relationships). This site is mostly written by an INTP and i can identify with these patterns. Not so much with the INFP. I think.
(Note: I am not so sure anymore, that i know myself that good. Perhaps it's more about who i want to be? I don't know!)
I have difficulty when people discuss whether they can "relate" to type descriptions. I think it could be because of what you mention, that it's never clear if that relating is due to how they are or how they want to be. Now that I think about it, I bet a fair amount of my irritation when people talk about what type they "relate to" may be based on that, that I feel the ungrounded-ness in such an approach.

3. I have an interest in writing and "typical" INFP-fields (and i write more like a "typical-INFP", imho). But in objective career-tests i mostly score high in mathematical/informatics-related competences, not so much in the "soft communication-field". So it's imho quite possible that i long thought to be an artsy-INFP, but in reality i am much more header-type...
My INFP is very numbers-oriented at times. It's Te-inf, I think. She mentioned the other day that she has "an accountant mind." It's only one side of her but it is there and I have observed its existence.

4. Yeah, the "header". I am quite confident about my enneagram 6w7 (head-lead), so this could explain, why i am a more "distant" INFP and not so into the feely-thing. But it also could be that i am a dom-head (Ti?) and my (childish) feelings come from my inferior (Fe). Others often see me as a thinker, not a feeler or spiritual person (although i am interested in these fields!).
The comment in bold is the first thing that might pull me away from INFP, just because I don't know much about how Fe-in can show up. But ... I saw a lot of Fi in your comments and Fe is really different from Fi IMO.

As for how others see you: My INFP told me once that when asked which Muppet she most resembled, many people who knew her said Sam the Eagle. Not consistent with the stereotypical INFP dreamy spiritual healer thing, yeah? I didn't understand how people could see her that way because our connection links into the visceral side of her, and so I said her Muppet would be Animal (she agreed from her perspective but told me she understood why others saw Sam the Eagle).

After some time together, I can see how she presents a Sam the Eagle vibe sometimes, out in the world. It's just part of how she moves.

She is also an amazingly talented healer, and is trained in alternative modes of doing that that that incorporates things like "energy work," but her approach to that work is incredibly physically grounded at its core - the opposite of airy-fairy dreamy-INFP-stereotypes. (my take is that when it comes to being a healer, she's the real thing that so many New Age posers pretend to be. Others have noticed this about her as well and it can get confusing since so much of the alternative healer stuff is wrapped in New Age bullshit)

Anyway.

As for the feelings, my INFP can present a really stoic face to the world (her 9 influence) so I could see you presenting as a head type due to being a 6 - though that would be more convincing to me if you were 6w5.

The thing with my 9w8 INFP is she has a very carefully guarded intensely emotional center. It's incredibly well-protected and kept internal to a large extent. It's so well-guarded that I can lose track of it sometimes and then I find myself surprised again to see and remember its existence. Most people aren't at all aware of this part of her, and certainly not its extent. I think this is as much an enneagram thing as anything else, but if others see her as stoic due to her enneagram, why wouldn't others see you as a thinker if that's how your enneagram presents?

5. I asked a good (and long) friend of mine. And he thought i would be an INTP (btw: i was in INTP-mood at that time). And he thought i talked/behaved like this: TiNe Visually Reading Type
I'd love to see a video of you and ask my INFP to compare it with FiNe and TiNe. (I'd ask her because she's much better at consciously tracking the visual cues than I am (Se-inf gets in the way for me to some extent with the visual reading, though I do love those CognitiveType videos).

Absent that, I can't say anything about this because your friend is working with data I don't have access to.

This could all be a battle of Fi(dom) and Te(inferior). But i am not so sure. What do you think?
Based on my INFP, I would say never underestimate the Te dynamic in an INFP.

I'd say that even in the inferior form, Te is really different from Ti. It's more linear, rigid, numerical, prone to universal rules rather than the more inductive context specific logic of Ti. What's your take on Te versus Ti, which feels "better" to you, do you know?

Hope this is useful!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Okay, here goes:

I myself personally think that the Fi = crusader thing is bullshit as related to activism. Not that Fi-doms can't be involved in such things, but the idea that it is a defining characteristic - hell no.

I once had a discussion/argument with an INFP on this site who argued that without Fi there would be no social change. We went back and forth and I finally asked her what social movement/activism experience she had and the answer was NONE.

Compare that with me, INFJ Fe-aux, who spent twenty years involved in various social movement contexts (so yes, Fe-aux in an INFJ at least is quite consistent with activism, though truth be told I questioned it just as I question everything).

Anyway, back to the Fi=crusader thing. I did find it funny that the INFP insisting on a connection like that had no lived experience doing what she insisted Fi is uniquely suited to do, while I had the lived experience with activism as a Fe-aux. And when I told my INFP mate about it, she laughed because she has no activist background either, we've known for a while that that's an interesting difference between us (I don't do it anymore, so she's never seen this side of me all the way active, but it's a huge part of my life and history).
Thank you! :wink: I get more confident i could be an INFP and also being "normal" in not liking crusading very much... :tongue:

As for Fi as Drama-Queen/Emo: I'd be more inclined to describe the Fi core as stubbornness about the internal value matrix. How that stubbornness shows up seems to me to vary with other factors like enneagram type. My INFP is 9w8 and tends toward stoicism and withdrawal with a lot of suppressed anger underneath that can come out when her core values are violated. I'd never describe her as emo or a drama-queen.
If Fi really is about INNER and/or hidden feelings than it's already unlikely they act as drama-queens. And yeah, i think enneagram is very important. Because an E4 will certainly show more feelings as an E9 (and both are considered typical INFPs).


I have difficulty when people discuss whether they can "relate" to type descriptions. I think it could be because of what you mention, that it's never clear if that relating is due to how they are or how they want to be. Now that I think about it, I bet a fair amount of my irritation when people talk about what type they "relate to" may be based on that, that I feel the ungrounded-ness in such an approach.
Yeah, it's difficult. But i believe (when i am right about my INFPness), that Fi is about identifying with others. They can identify with a lot of things and they can identify with a few sentences in a descriptions. And if they strongly relate to these sentences they could beginn doubting their type because of that.

At least it sounds plausible! :laughing:


As for how others see you: My INFP told me once that when asked which Muppet she most resembled, many people who knew her said Sam the Eagle. Not consistent with the stereotypical INFP dreamy spiritual healer thing, yeah? I didn't understand how people could see her that way because our connection links into the visceral side of her, and so I said her Muppet would be Animal (she agreed from her perspective but told me she understood why others saw Sam the Eagle).

After some time together, I can see how she presents a Sam the Eagle vibe sometimes, out in the world. It's just part of how she moves.
I am not quite into the Muppet-thing. But i googled it. And i can relate to that! :laughing: Except in my case, i personally could relate more to Sam than Animal.
I think it's about inferior-Te. An INFP after all "shows" N(e) and T(e) to the world. For me Te is the "normal/first" thing people see (the cold/aloof thing of INFP...and my E6?). Ne mostly comes out, when i am in a relaxed atmosphere (among friends), which is sadly not too often. :wink: The more "warming-up" was done, the more Ne gets rolling...

She is also an amazingly talented healer, and is trained in alternative modes of doing that that that incorporates things like "energy work," but her approach to that work is incredibly physically grounded at its core - the opposite of airy-fairy dreamy-INFP-stereotypes. (my take is that when it comes to being a healer, she's the real thing that so many New Age posers pretend to be. Others have noticed this about her as well and it can get confusing since so much of the alternative healer stuff is wrapped in New Age bullshit)

As for the feelings, my INFP can present a really stoic face to the world (her 9 influence) so I could see you presenting as a head type due to being a 6 - though that would be more convincing to me if you were 6w5
The "physically grounded" is nothing like me. But i'll attribute this to the ennegram. I am more the "airy-header"-type 6.
(On a side note: I could relate better to 6w5, because i long thought i was a 5 and never considered 7, but nobody thought about 6w5, all said 6w7 as their first response, independently of another :laughing:. But perhaps the "7ish-writing" comes from my Ne, who knows? Btw: I've got a lot of 9w1 in me, too...tritype etc)

The thing with my 9w8 INFP is she has a very carefully guarded intensely emotional center. It's incredibly well-protected and kept internal to a large extent. It's so well-guarded that I can lose track of it sometimes and then I find myself surprised again to see and remember its existence. Most people aren't at all aware of this part of her, and certainly not its extent. I think this is as much an enneagram thing as anything else, but if others see her as stoic due to her enneagram, why wouldn't others see you as a thinker if that's how your enneagram presents?
Yeah, right. I can relate a lot to the "carefully guarded" part.

I'd love to see a video of you and ask my INFP to compare it with FiNe and TiNe. (I'd ask her because she's much better at consciously tracking the visual cues than I am (Se-inf gets in the way for me to some extent with the visual reading, though I do love those CognitiveType videos).

Absent that, I can't say anything about this because your friend is working with data I don't have access to
When i cross this bridge (making a video of me and presenting it to the world), i'll give it to you! :tongue:

Based on my INFP, I would say never underestimate the Te dynamic in an INFP.

I'd say that even in the inferior form, Te is really different from Ti. It's more linear, rigid, numerical, prone to universal rules rather than the more inductive context specific logic of Ti. What's your take on Te versus Ti, which feels "better" to you, do you know?

Hope this is useful!
Yeah, its VERY useful, indeed!

I really, really, really...like deductive more than inductive. I can understand the background of inductive, but it's difficult for me. I often get a very fast "impression" of something and than it's somewhat "clear" for me. Than i hate to "proof" it in a detailed fashion. Objective Hermeneutics etc sounds cool for me, but it's very, very difficult, because i often already have some clue where it's going and i have to forcefully "delete" it of my mind - to be objective.

I relate to the Te-inferior-descriptions very well. For example the thing that you go with one idea through a lot of material (this isn't quite thorough though). I think thats deductive.

I hate logical nitty-gritty analysis. I really, really hate it! :angry:

Under stress i can sometimes go into "Te-mode" (as i would call it). Beeing responsible, clear structures, organising etc.

What do you make of this? Is this inferior-Te or Ti-dom?
 
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You seem like an INFP to me as I don't see much Ti dominant in your original post or your replies though Ti is a bit harder to detect. You seem to be me Fe dom.

I'd also like to comment on something you said in a reply about feelers being irrational in comparison to thinkers just to help you think about this from a different angle (since you seem to really not be fond of being a feeler). This is really an untrue statement that a lot of times causes a mess when people are trying to type themselves because they don't want to be a feeler (because ew feelings and emotions). Really feelers can be extremely intelligent, logical people. I have an INFJ friend who you'd never guess is a feeler because he comes across incredibly logical. Thinkers can also come across quite emotional. For example, a stressed out INTP can lash out with their inferior Fe and create quite a scene.

Just out of curiosity, what exactly are you like when you are stressed. Describe it. Don't put it in terms of functions.

I was also searching for information on how the inferior function plays out in INFPs and found this. Thought it might be helpful for you: http://personalitycafe.com/infp-articles/76770-recognizing-inferior-function-ifps.html. Particularly this quote: "As an INFP psychotherapist, I find that cleaning the house, organizing drawers, or alphabetizing spices can provide a relaxing and welcome break from seeing clients, theorizing, doing research, and writing.This gives my dominant Feeling and auxiliary Intuition a rest when they have been used particularly intensively" since you stated that when you become stressed Te comes out which sounds exactly like what this INFP is doing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
You seem like an INFP to me as I don't see much Ti dominant in your original post or your replies though Ti is a bit harder to detect. You seem to be me Fe dom.
So..INFP or Fe-dom? Both together would be quite difficult! :tongue:

I'd also like to comment on something you said in a reply about feelers being irrational in comparison to thinkers just to help you think about this from a different angle (since you seem to really not be fond of being a feeler). This is really an untrue statement that a lot of times causes a mess when people are trying to type themselves because they don't want to be a feeler (because ew feelings and emotions). Really feelers can be extremely intelligent, logical people. I have an INFJ friend who you'd never guess is a feeler because he comes across incredibly logical. Thinkers can also come across quite emotional. For example, a stressed out INTP can lash out with their inferior Fe and create quite a scene.

Just out of curiosity, what exactly are you like when you are stressed. Describe it. Don't put it in terms of functions.

I was also searching for information on how the inferior function plays out in INFPs and found this. Thought it might be helpful for you: http://personalitycafe.com/infp-articles/76770-recognizing-inferior-function-ifps.html.
Thanks for your thoughts! I know this link. :cool: But i'll do as you said and try to describe myself with stress:

- i defeat myself (inwards and outwards) and never think that the critisim i get isn't true and right. For me it's a strategy to get a bit pity :wink:
- i close down and don't want to talk about the stressors etc. --> ignoring
- i become anxious inside and try to hide it
- i become more extroverted and i am not that comfortable alone anymore
- i "forget" to read (i don't do it anymore...but i like it very much and it's good for my health!)
- by playing football (and fearing losing) i can snap, become very competitive, hard and tough (temporaly). I am easily angered and can't keep it in! It's a hard effort to stay calm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Particularly this quote: "As an INFP psychotherapist, I find that cleaning the house, organizing drawers, or alphabetizing spices can provide a relaxing and welcome break from seeing clients, theorizing, doing research, and writing.This gives my dominant Feeling and auxiliary Intuition a rest when they have been used particularly intensively" since you stated that when you become stressed Te comes out which sounds exactly like what this INFP is doing.
I am not quite sure, whether i do this, when i am stressed. But i have my moments, where such "organising" (NOT cleaning! :laughing:) is very relaxing indeed...:proud:
 

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I really, really, really...like deductive more than inductive. I can understand the background of inductive, but it's difficult for me. I often get a very fast "impression" of something and than it's somewhat "clear" for me. Than i hate to "proof" it in a detailed fashion. Objective Hermeneutics etc sounds cool for me, but it's very, very difficult, because i often already have some clue where it's going and i have to forcefully "delete" it of my mind - to be objective.

I relate to the Te-inferior-descriptions very well. For example the thing that you go with one idea through a lot of material (this isn't quite thorough though). I think thats deductive.
I hate logical nitty-gritty analysis. I really, really hate it! :angry:

Under stress i can sometimes go into "Te-mode" (as i would call it). Being responsible, clear structures, organising etc.

What do you make of this? Is this inferior-Te or Ti-dom?
There's a lot in what you're saying that I don't understand well enough (what it means to you) to be able to tell if it's Te or Ti. It's just a matter of not understanding what you mean by the words you're using.

I can say I have very clearly seen this particular part in my INFP, we've even discussed it:

Under stress i can sometimes go into "Te-mode" (as i would call it). Being responsible, clear structures, organising etc.
She does this, I think. I've seen it a number of times. If her stress is extreme, it can actually get a little scary for me because it can get kind of ... well, she calls it "hyperfocus.," It's like she has this set of Te-logic assumptions or arguments or something, and follows that structure obsessively, to the point where she can actually get caught inside it and not be able to see anything outside those logical constraints governing her actions.

So for example (the situation I remember as being most obvious and scary), there was a point last year when she was under great stress and developed a rigid linear logic chain something along the lines of: "Our family is important to me, the way to help the family is for me to get more income, the way to get more income is to search these websites every day and put in as many applications as possible." And in the process she began moving like some sort of automaton and was unable to think outside of the logic-rut she had created for herself. It's like if she stopped doing things how she had decided they had to be done, she would be harming the family.

I kept trying to get her out so she could think more creatively and respond to the actual external environment better, and she kept saying she couldn't see anything but her own logic structure. What finally broke her out was me telling her that what she was doing was harming our relationship and thus harming the family and if she stayed in that mode, she risked losing me and thus the relationship giving her her initial purpose for her actions. That somehow broke the logic prison, maybe because it went after the overarching assumption that started the whole chain. (all I was doing was telling the truth but she said that particular truth had a unique impact on her being able to get out of the logic rut).

I think I would describe this mode as Te-inf freaking out and trying to run the show, interacting with Fi-dom values (setting the value terms, "Our family is important to me") and Si-tert ("this is how I have been doing it so this is what must be done" or something like that) ... and in all of this, Ne-aux was somehow mostly inaccessible to her.

And since I shared that example, I want to be clear that I've also seen an alternative mode in her that is far FAR better for getting things done IMO. When her Ne-aux is allowed to be fully open/accessed, she can perceive and navigate opportunities in a truly amazingly effective way, and I know Te-inf is part of that, but it's not trying to run the show like it seemed to be in other contexts. In her case, Ne can get suppressed under extreme stress, but when it's not, she is eerie perceptive about her environment and its flows. I'm watching her move now and it's just a wonder to behold, she's amazing.
 

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Have you read the article similar to the INFP one I linked that discusses the inferior Fe in INTPs? It would probably be a good read to compare the differences between the two.
So..INFP or Fe-dom? Both together would be quite difficult! :tongue:
Sorry, I mistyped. I meant Fi dom. I was thinking about INTPs inferior Fe when I was typing. The quote I gave you was just about relaxing after using Fi/Ne for long periods of times and using Te or Si instead. There's an interesting section in what I linked you about how Te comes out under stress (I hadn't gotten to that part when I originally wrote that).

What you described being stressed like doesn't exactly sound like the stressed INTP's Ti-Si loop or sound like the INFP's stressed Te function so I'm not sure what to make of it (except for "i defeat myself (inwards and outwards) and never think that the critisim i get isn't true and right. For me it's a strategy to get a bit pity" which sounds like what can happen when inferior Te takes over).

Honestly the biggest reason I see you as not a dominant Ti is because you obviously care about people and interacting with them which is not something that is really ever present in Ti dominants (not to say they don't interact with people, it's just not on their list of things they particularly care about). Actually now that I think about it and read over your profile again, it really sounds like you have more of an Fe instead of an Fi. What do you think about INFJ (Ni, Fe, Ti, Se)? It kind of also may make sense with how you act when you're stressed because unlike Si which make us look inward and examine our actions, Se tends to make people interact with the world around them (like playing football) as well as not wanting to be alone which is partly Fe. I'll be honest, I haven't read much about INFJs so I have very limited knowledge on them and just how my INFJ friend is.
 
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