Personality Cafe banner
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
701 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've noticed a very strange pattern among xNFJ's, and as an INFP it's hard to understand this. I've heard many xNFJ's state things that comes down to the fact that they are reluctant to express their own views, thoughts or opinions, because they are all so sure, that it will offend all kinds of people and it will do a lot of damage in some way. I really can't come into that as an INFP, I always very honest about what I think myself and I think it's interesting that everybody else thinks differently. I really can't see how thoughts or expression of self would be offensive. I respect the other person for who they are, and what they think. And I think what I think about things. If they don't agree with me, who cares. It's not like I won't like them anymore or something. I've been expressive my whole life, and I never experienced damage in my human relationships for it. I just don't get how xNFJ's even think that.

Can someone please explain what their own views about this topic are?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,695 Posts
I've noticed a very strange pattern among xNFJ's, and as an INFP it's hard to understand this. I've heard many xNFJ's state things that comes down to the fact that they are reluctant to express their own views, thoughts or opinions, because they are all so sure, that it will offend all kinds of people and it will do a lot of damage in some way. I really can't come into that as an INFP, I always very honest about what I think myself and I think it's interesting that everybody else thinks differently. I really can't see how thoughts or expression of self would be offensive. I respect the other person for who they are, and what they think. And I think what I think about things. If they don't agree with me, who cares. It's not like I won't like them anymore or something. I've been expressive my whole life, and I never experienced damage in my human relationships for it. I just don't get how xNFJ's even think that.

Can someone please explain what their own views about this topic are?
The reason behind it is because many people, usually people who use Fe, feel a need for harmonious group opinion. We (any Fe user) have trouble seeing values outside of the realm of the group, deep down. Therefore, differing opinions (particularly opinions regarding morality or "values") means SOMEONE is wrong, due to the "objective" nature of Fe. This causes conflict.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DAPHNE XO

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,106 Posts
@Summery
I think @Happy about Nothing. has it squared in. I might take it a step further and say that well, some honest views are in fact offensive and can be offensive to people, and unless we know you won't be offended we probably don't want to open a can of worms that will end up making us feel bad.

Takes a little longer for J's to move on from a bad experience I think.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,801 Posts
Rambling time, awesome.

So okay, opinions/thoughts are simply observations that we personally have found to be true, either through our own experiences or through any emotional context. If we are to keep things objective, which is really the thing here, we should be able to interpret personal opinions and thoughts, ideas, and especially musings, as simply a divulgence of observation. If I have been taught anything by my life, it's that when you are in an exchange of thoughts, emotional attachment and trivial things such as tact, or brevity, are unimportant, and that what I must focus on is what the individual has observed, and how has the person interpreted his experience and feels about it. So in the end you have to ditch not only their biases aside, you have to ditch yours, and simply step into his experience and see for yourself without any predispositions.

It is intended by our biologies that we adapt specifically to our extremities, it's simply efficient, and if we were to inject human morality into the mix, we say that it's common sense. So in the sense of... common sense, it's okay for every human being to live and think the way that they do (barring biological damage to the person causing it, that complicates things). The evil, and righteous deeds of every human being is natural (we only give it names and attach meanings to those two words), what we observe as a species to be harmful to us, or inefficient will obviously be twisted into a moral argument simply due to the fact that we are self-aware creatures who can experience something of subjective value such as emotions... we were built like this as social creatures.

But anyways, right and wrong are products of time and place, social progress is proof of that. So much like the collective mind, and agreed social conventions and mores, you will personally adapt, learn, and create an individual worldview of life, based on your specific experiences, and whatever biological variables that are specific to you. There's the big world, and it's consisted of small worlds, anything that occurs frequently, or are important enough, become a part of an agreed big world.

tl;dr

You've lived a different life, I've lived a different life, we all have biases due to different lives, why the fuck do our opinions have to hurt eachother? Just observe and entertain the thought, in case you're the one being mentally rigid.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
701 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Your intuition is your inner - function. So when someone doesn't respect you for it, you feel personally hurt. Extraverted intuition works the other way around: it doesn't take in the subject to play with the idea. It focuses on the object, but an idea isn't a part of the xNFP's personality, because extraverted intuition external focus. For example, I had an ENFJ chicken out - for already 1 year - whenever I would bring up a subject he totally avoided, because he didn't agree with me (which he didn't even want to tell me, but was oh so 100% clear). And I think that xNFJ's may do that, because there Fe wants everyone to be accepted.

Because xNFJ's intuition is such introverted function, I think you guys may have the feeling you would offend someone on a very personal level, by rejecting someone else thoughts. Because it's an integrate part of your personality. You are your thoughts... I think that's why you may be more reluctant to share them freely than we are and why you assume something like a thought may be even able to offend someone that deeply.

Extraverted intuition works like extraverted feeling. About external object X I think/feel... For us it's the other way around. I can never be upset on a personal level by a different thought or opinion, or someone hating mine - because it doesn't affect me internally - my thoughts are about objects. It's not integrated part of the subject... But when I want to tell someone about my feelings, I plan it, it's very deep and hard sharing, and when it turns out bad - or not that I wanted... It's an internal stab beyond description, I will be so upset, and shut the door forever in my head.

Shifted introverted - extraverted functions I suppose.
That's how thoughts can be offensive for the xNFJ. Because thoughts are subjective - and so are able to offend another subject with different thoughts and why you are so careful about them. Which sound very weird for a Ne - user who think thoughts are exciting things to explore.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts
Your intuition is your inner - function. So when someone doesn't respect you for it, you feel personally hurt. Extraverted intuition works the other way around: it doesn't take in the subject to play with the idea. It focuses on the object, but an idea isn't a part of the xNFP's personality, because extraverted intuition external focus. For example, I had an ENFJ chicken out - for already 1 year - whenever I would bring up a subject he totally avoided, because he didn't agree with me (which he didn't even want to tell me, but was oh so 100% clear). And I think that xNFJ's may do that, because there Fe wants everyone to be accepted.

Because xNFJ's intuition is such introverted function, I think you guys may have the feeling you would offend someone on a very personal level, by rejecting someone else thoughts. Because it's an integrate part of your personality. You are your thoughts... I think that's why you may be more reluctant to share them freely than we are and why you assume something like a thought may be even able to offend someone that deeply.

Extraverted intuition works like extraverted feeling. About external object X I think/feel... For us it's the other way around. I can never be upset on a personal level by a different thought or opinion, or someone hating mine - because it doesn't affect me internally - my thoughts are about objects. It's not integrated part of the subject... But when I want to tell someone about my feelings, I plan it, it's very deep and hard sharing, and when it turns out bad - or not that I wanted... It's an internal stab beyond description, I will be so upset, and shut the door forever in my head.

Shifted introverted - extraverted functions I suppose.
That's how thoughts can be offensive for the xNFJ. Because thoughts are subjective - and so are able to offend another subject with different thoughts and why you are so careful about them. Which sound very weird for a Ne - user who think thoughts are exciting things to explore.

interesting Summery, ��

I really would like to know ENFJs point of view about this post , if it is really exactly the way you explained it , it will highlight and explain a lot for me ...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
interesting Summery, ��

I really would like to know ENFJs point of view about this post , if it is really exactly the way you explained it , it will highlight and explain a lot for me ...
Ditto. An epiphany of sorts. Would love to hear feedback on that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,801 Posts
Not sure I understand. It seems the INFJ forum is simply more prolific in comparison.
Late reply. I was noticing the consistencies between the replies to that thread.


Your intuition is your inner - function. So when someone doesn't respect you for it, you feel personally hurt. Extraverted intuition works the other way around: it doesn't take in the subject to play with the idea. It focuses on the object, but an idea isn't a part of the xNFP's personality, because extraverted intuition external focus. For example, I had an ENFJ chicken out - for already 1 year - whenever I would bring up a subject he totally avoided, because he didn't agree with me (which he didn't even want to tell me, but was oh so 100% clear). And I think that xNFJ's may do that, because there Fe wants everyone to be accepted.
I'll respectfully disagree with your first point. Personally, I know when to compartmentalize my feelings and my thoughts. I can entertain ideas without being emotionally attached to them, I do this every time I meet strangers, as that is necessary to have open channels of communication. This may be a case of personal development, I did not have this ability when I was younger, and was rather stubborn and sensitive about my own thoughts.

Because xNFJ's intuition is such introverted function, I think you guys may have the feeling you would offend someone on a very personal level, by rejecting someone else thoughts. Because it's an integrate part of your personality. You are your thoughts... I think that's why you may be more reluctant to share them freely than we are and why you assume something like a thought may be even able to offend someone that deeply.
It's not so much an issue of severity, but in a situation like this, I'd rather not trigger somebody or have to deal with unnecessary butthurt. In a situation where it is clear that it is an objective exchange of thoughts, it's fair game, and at that point I don't really care if I hurt feelings. Context is what matters.

Extraverted intuition works like extraverted feeling. About external object X I think/feel... For us it's the other way around. I can never be upset on a personal level by a different thought or opinion, or someone hating mine - because it doesn't affect me internally - my thoughts are about objects. It's not integrated part of the subject... But when I want to tell someone about my feelings, I plan it, it's very deep and hard sharing, and when it turns out bad - or not that I wanted... It's an internal stab beyond description, I will be so upset, and shut the door forever in my head.
The parallel between Ne and Fe that you describe, is what I've found to be true. But I think drawing a parallel between Fi and Ni is a little complicated, so I find it difficult to explain my version of your scenario.

But I can say that what comes from my Ni is still preceded by Fe, in that I can still entertain thoughts, and throw them out into the air like nothing, as I have no personal attachment to them. The only problem with that is how other people will take them, that's what Fe cares about. So lately I've been trying to have conversations with people who can objectively analyze ideas, instead of knee jerk reactions due to personal values. With them, no time or energy is wasted.


That's how thoughts can be offensive for the xNFJ. Because thoughts are subjective - and so are able to offend another subject with different thoughts and why you are so careful about them. Which sound very weird for a Ne - user who think thoughts are exciting things to explore.
Thoughts are subjective, but many people share similar thoughts about specific things. What is important is knowing that the value you place on your thoughts is a product of your own experience, and that anything that you hold dear in your mind may have never been relevant in another's life.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,085 Posts
I don't know how to not censor my opinions? If I think a person is ugly, that's rude. It's a subjective opinion, one that is false just by the fact that everyone is beautiful and because my definition of ugly is not true. It's not even a definition, it's a feeling. If I think that someone is ugly (at first glance) and they ask me how I percieve them... I will have to tell them that I love the way they look. That they're beautiful. I can't imagine not doing that? Sorry, I find it interesting that anyone would not consider that offensive and censor themselves. It's not bad of course, it's just very different from how I approach anything / everything.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,801 Posts
I don't know how to not censor my opinions? If I think a person is ugly, that's rude. It's a subjective opinion, one that is false just by the fact that everyone is beautiful and because my definition of ugly is not true. It's not even a definition, it's a feeling. If I think that someone is ugly (at first glance) and they ask me how I percieve them... I will have to tell them that I love the way they look. That they're beautiful. I can't imagine not doing that? Sorry, I find it interesting that anyone would not consider that offensive and censor themselves. It's not bad of course, it's just very different from how I approach anything / everything.
Yeah, when talking to people about insecurities and flaws, the only course of action is to have them realize that by no means should they feel punished or otherwise victimized by them. Physical flaws especially, it doesn't make sense to make them feel that way about something so out of their control. The best thing do to is make them comfortable with themselves, to accept those things.

That's all you have to do, what they make of their new-found comfort is up to them, really. It only matters that they accept themselves.

Everybody has flaws, and it's a disservice to disillusion people, I want people to be able to look at themselves and think, "Damn that part of me is fugly, good thing it doesn't mean anything about who I really am."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
Yeah, when talking to people about insecurities and flaws, the only course of action is to have them realize that by no means should they feel punished or otherwise victimized by them. Physical flaws especially, it doesn't make sense to make them feel that way about something so out of their control. The best thing do to is make them comfortable with themselves, to accept those things.

That's all you have to do, what they make of their new-found comfort is up to them, really. It only matters that they accept themselves.

Everybody has flaws, and it's a disservice to disillusion people, I want people to be able to look at themselves and think, "Damn that part of me is fugly, good thing it doesn't mean anything about who I really am."
I like the way you think. Its very admirable to go about this way in life.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
701 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Yeah, when talking to people about insecurities and flaws, the only course of action is to have them realize that by no means should they feel punished or otherwise victimized by them. Physical flaws especially, it doesn't make sense to make them feel that way about something so out of their control. The best thing do to is make them comfortable with themselves, to accept those things.

That's all you have to do, what they make of their new-found comfort is up to them, really. It only matters that they accept themselves.

Everybody has flaws, and it's a disservice to disillusion people, I want people to be able to look at themselves and think, "Damn that part of me is fugly, good thing it doesn't mean anything about who I really am."
That may be you @Eggsies. :)
When I was detecting a flaw in an ENFJ I know, he got upset with me, by pressing it too much. I like to talk about flaws. :) Flaws is what makes us interesting. It's the most inspiring thing about people, they become so real.
Not talking about mbti, but as a human person, I totally share your point of view. No shame about flaws. We're all human. Am happy I'm not alone with this thing: “Share your weaknesses. Share your hard moments. Share your real side. It’ll either scare away every fake person in your life or it will inspire them to finally let go of that mirage called “perfection,” which will open the doors to the most important relationships you’ll ever be a part of.”
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top