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I've noticed a very strange pattern among xNFJ's, and as an INFP it's hard to understand this. I've heard many xNFJ's state things that comes down to the fact that they are reluctant to express their own views, thoughts or opinions, because they are all so sure, that it will offend all kinds of people and it will do a lot of damage in some way. I really can't come into that as an INFP, I always very honest about what I think myself and I think it's interesting that everybody else thinks differently. I really can't see how thoughts or expression of self would be offensive. I respect the other person for who they are, and what they think. And I think what I think about things. If they don't agree with me, who cares. It's not like I won't like them anymore or something. I've been expressive my whole life, and I never experienced damage in my human relationships for it. I just don't get how xNFJ's even think that.

Can someone please explain what their own views about this topic are?
 

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Thoughts per se aren't harmful. It's thoughts that go against beliefs that can be harmful. Not all people are offended when someone states something contrary to their beliefs but there still is a large portion of the population that are. So you mention something about believing in the flying spaghetti monster. I say that I think the universe wasn't created by a flying spaghetti monster but rather by an advanced alien scientist and we are a part of it's experiment. The thoughts clash, we identify with those thoughts, so we feel like we are denouncing some part of each other because only one of the two must be correct. Thus conflict.

It also doesn't help that infj's are good at reading between the lines so they may see potential for conflict where others may not and therefore be more hesitant to saying something which may cause conflict.

As for damaging relationships, perhaps you are correct that most all thoughts could not do so. I'm not sure how infj's feel but at least for me it's not so much about damaging relationships as it is about avoiding any sort of conflict. I'm easy to anger/upset, I've seen many others who are easy to anger/upset, so I avoid things that could cause me to do or feel something that I'd rather avoid.
 

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My Grandma had always said, "What you think, you can keep to yourself; what you say, you can't take back."

I carry this with me literally every time I encounter something conflicting, stressful or a game-changer in a relationship.

Part of it may be personal security for INFJs.
It hurts immensely to be backed into a corner in a relationship where the wisest course is to slam the door shut and move on.
It hurts equally as much to have someone else judge you and slam the door on you (if you know you didn't deserve it).

I have to believe that most INFJs play 30 different scenarios in their heads in the split second before they speak their minds.
Sometimes, it can be the equivalent of a falling glass you're trying to catch :
During the next few seconds, everything is either going to be all right, or else there is going to be damage and chaos. :shocked:
 

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I've noticed a very strange pattern among xNFJ's, and as an INFP it's hard to understand this. I've heard many xNFJ's state things that comes down to the fact that they are reluctant to express their own views, thoughts or opinions, because they are all so sure, that it will offend all kinds of people and it will do a lot of damage in some way. I really can't come into that as an INFP, I always very honest about what I think myself and I think it's interesting that everybody else thinks differently. I really can't see how thoughts or expression of self would be offensive. I respect the other person for who they are, and what they think. And I think what I think about things. If they don't agree with me, who cares. It's not like I won't like them anymore or something. I've been expressive my whole life, and I never experienced damage in my human relationships for it. I just don't get how xNFJ's even think that.

Can someone please explain what their own views about this topic are?
Hmm, that's a tough one.
I think thoughts itself cannot be offensive, they only exist in the safety of my own head (even though i could argue that my thoughts sometimes scare me too, but they're not offensive at least). But the moment you actually speak the words they become much more than that.

The moment you speak them, they're not yours anymore. First, the words you use do they actually cover exactly what it looked like inside your own head (huge struggle with this one sometimes)? Secondly, every person who listens will use their own filter and might interpret things differently.

So yes, i sometimes struggle saying what goes on in my head. Because the things you say and do have consequences. Sometimes i might put myself on the line when i'm not ready to do so, other times i'm not sure how other's reaction will be. I can do it, but i usually have to mentally prepare myself. And even then, i sometimes chicken out of it.
 

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I have to believe that most INFJs play 30 different scenarios in their heads in the split second before they speak their minds.
Sometimes, it can be the equivalent of a falling glass you're trying to catch :
During the next few seconds, everything is either going to be all right, or else there is going to be damage and chaos. :shocked:
And voila, while i was typing @Copper North wrote it down exactly.
It's like playing chess with conversation lines.
 

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If the receiving end does not have the strength or the right frame of mind; it can at best be disregarded and at worst life shattering.

Also, any kind of discrimination?
 

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A kind of answer could come from social psychology with implicit and explicit attitudes. (A poor example but the only one that comes to mind) When asked, explicitly stating that you have no problem with blacks or mexicans while implicitly behaving passive aggressively or condescending towards other races as inner biases you may be unaware of even when pressed.
Considering how thoughts may shape our non verbal communication or how anger or fatigue may make us prone to falsely attributing negatively towards others (also known as 'kick the dog' moments ).
 

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When reading the forums, I notice that each type has a different vibe. INFPs are very candid and introspective, which I find very appealing. So I understand your question. The only way I can spot INFjs is they laugh hysterically at my jokes, so I guess they have a pent up need for goofiness. Have you tried being more goofy with them?
 

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And voila, while i was typing @Copper North wrote it down exactly.
It's like playing chess with conversation lines.
Sometimes, I think that I should wait an extra 10 minutes before sending out any reply.

Your reply was much more to the point and helpful, where a lot of mine end up on a rambling chord until the shiny red ball sends me back to the subject. :laughing:
 
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being conciliatory suits me just fine. if I detect someone in the group would be a problem (stubborn, extreme, or easily offended), why should I disturb the peace? it's better to keep my thoughts/ideas to myself.

can i be a devil's advocate? yes. when it's to my advantage (got me noticed by the right ppl or i was absolutely on the right side of the law), i can definitely be outspoken. But I have to be absolutely sure of my position and feel comfortable in order for me to be so bold (unlike ENTPs and INTPs).
 

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Yes I'm sure you respect other people opinions but there are lot of people who don't do that. When you express your opinion you "pick a side". Especially if your opinion is controversial or different from most of society. Some people will like you more for it and some will dislike you. Now if you are introvert and don't like annoying people trying to make you think as them you keep opinion for yourself and problem solved. Well but that doesn't work for everyone. People who are very close to me know my opinions and ideals very good.
 

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Sometimes, I think that I should wait an extra 10 minutes before sending out any reply.
Your reply was much more to the point and helpful, where a lot of mine end up on a rambling chord until the shiny red ball sends me back to the subject. :laughing:
That's why (thank goodness!) there is an edit button.
No, i thought you were spot on actually.


being conciliatory suits me just fine. if I detect someone in the group would be a problem (stubborn, extreme, or easily offended), why should I disturb the peace? it's better to keep my thoughts/ideas to myself.

can i be a devil's advocate? yes. when it's to my advantage (got me noticed by the right ppl or i was absolutely on the right side of the law), i can definitely be outspoken. But I have to be absolutely sure of my position and feel comfortable in order for me to be so bold (unlike ENTPs and INTPs).
And then there's is someone else who is always spot on!
The surprising thing is that i feel i keep the majority of my thoughts to me. And yet, i so often get the comment from colleagues that i'm saying out loud what everyone is thinking. But when i do, i've typically really thought it through and i know it would help a lot of people if someone speaks up. So i also want to be sure that i have it right before i will go and do it.
I don't have the boldness of NTPs either :)


When reading the forums, I notice that each type has a different vibe. INFPs are very candid and introspective, which I find very appealing. So I understand your question. The only way I can spot INFjs is they laugh hysterically at my jokes, so I guess they have a pent up need for goofiness. Have you tried being more goofy with them?
I love goofiness :D
 
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In all honesty, I am very surprised by you not understanding this. To me it's almost an axiom of life, a gloomy one indeed, that our thoughts can never be fully shared. Imagine if a loudspeaker were plugged into your brain and played out all the thoughts you had in real time. First of all we would all think you were a maniac, but secondly we'd be displeased by many of your actual thoughts as they would break the nice social atmosphere with its complacent and kind beliefs we've put up. We all have bad thoughts, like, I'll think something negative about a person and it will be reiterated even in situations where it doesn't apply, I might find women who aren't my girlfriend attractive, I assume negative things about others, in some cases I might find pleasure in their agony, or see them as inferior to me. All of these are contents of the mind that I really don't want to have, but yet I do, and most of them I could never share with those they involve since basically no person is developed enough to handle such information in a logical way and would much rather live in complacency. It would break the spell we're living under, and nobody would benefit from that.

Edit: Alright, I seem to not respond exactly to what was posted. It is however still clear to me that opinions do affect others and that it would be gullible to assume that they would all be understood correctly.
 

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I've noticed a very strange pattern among xNFJ's, and as an INFP it's hard to understand this. I've heard many xNFJ's state things that comes down to the fact that they are reluctant to express their own views, thoughts or opinions, because they are all so sure, that it will offend all kinds of people and it will do a lot of damage in some way. I really can't come into that as an INFP, I always very honest about what I think myself and I think it's interesting that everybody else thinks differently. I really can't see how thoughts or expression of self would be offensive. I respect the other person for who they are, and what they think. And I think what I think about things. If they don't agree with me, who cares. It's not like I won't like them anymore or something. I've been expressive my whole life, and I never experienced damage in my human relationships for it. I just don't get how xNFJ's even think that.

Can someone please explain what their own views about this topic are?
Maybe it's a P vs J thing. Maybe the J types strongly percieve the world to be one certain way, and P types don't really have that (to that degree, or at all). J types put themselves into that certain view, identify with it, and if someone states a view that challenges that certain way, they feel like they themselves are challenged. That's why detachment from our views is taught in some philosophies.
 

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There's what you think, and then there's what you do. Some people just can't separate the two.

Sorry, just came from the poetry thread. Still got some on me.
 

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As an INFJ, I'm 100% sure about the things that I value which are very precious for me. When I plan to tell someone about something, I have to be sure that person would be able to understand and respect them, or at least trying to. I usually think thoroughly about what are the things that I want to share, how and when. Expressing my own views/values on someone means I respect and trying to connect with that person. So, sharing is a deep thing for us. And if it doesn't turn out the way we want it, let's say that they disagree with our value or just doesn't really care about them... It hurts us really bad, sometimes it feels like disconnected to that person. And it upset us for several days, or months. Sometimes I even stop trying to reconnect again, and just leave it that way.

And somehow I also can understand that everyone has their own value. Not only I'm able to understand it, but I also able to put myself in their shoes, it's like "if i were him probably i would be thinking bla bla bla", so I always try to find his/her reasoning. Why the other person has different value, and I can accept that, even if the value is opposite from mine, i still able to understand that. That's why whenever we try to speak up about our value, we are unable to fully express ourselves, because even when we're explaining our value, deep down inside we're also thinking about "what I should and shouldn't say it without making him/her upset?". My mind would go creating several scenes of "what would happen if I say this" in instant. So usually i try my best to avoid confrontation.

Just yesterday, I had confrontation with my boss. So both of us have different values, I know it from the start so I never speak up. But he's the kind of person who likes to debate (just so he could win). And he started that "debate" by asking me about my views. As an INFJ, I'm very fond of my own views, and would hold it till the day I die. I'm the kind of person that when someone (especially if that person is not that precious for me or just acquaintance) confronting my values, I would just escape the confrontation by saying "okay, you win". No I would not betray my values. At first I tried to slowing it down by not telling him too much, but it seemed that he's so eager to convinced me about his own views and then after a never ending debate, I was so fed up by negative emotions and went to "the hell what i'm going to say" mode. In all of sudden I eat the chips that he gave me before the "debate". He smiled and said "are you hungry?", and I said sarcastically "of course I'm hungry, I've been talking for hours. We're not done yet?". And somehow he seemed so upset and said "i just want to have a chat with you" and left. It made me feel sooo bad...even until now the fact that I made him sad still upset me. I kept thinking "maybe I went too far" but another part of my mind went "well, he caused that, he's the one who confront you about that". And so that's how it goes when INFJ share their thoughts...
 

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My Grandma had always said, "What you think, you can keep to yourself; what you say, you can't take back."

I carry this with me literally every time I encounter something conflicting, stressful or a game-changer in a relationship.

Part of it may be personal security for INFJs.
It hurts immensely to be backed into a corner in a relationship where the wisest course is to slam the door shut and move on.
It hurts equally as much to have someone else judge you and slam the door on you (if you know you didn't deserve it).

I have to believe that most INFJs play 30 different scenarios in their heads in the split second before they speak their minds.
Sometimes, it can be the equivalent of a falling glass you're trying to catch :
During the next few seconds, everything is either going to be all right, or else there is going to be damage and chaos. :shocked:
Its a beautiful way to put it. Words last forever, whether said or written. As Gibran said:
"Words are timeless. You should utter them or write them with a knowledge of their timelessness."
 

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I know for me, the main reason I edit myself is because I hate being misunderstood, and I tend to be misunderstood a lot. I also am aware that most people really don't want to hear the truth the way that I am sometimes capable of laying it bare, and if I see that it won't do any good, or will hurt the relationship & not be received to a positive end, I'll keep it to myself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
As an INFJ, I'm 100% sure about the things that I value which are very precious for me. When I plan to tell someone about something, I have to be sure that person would be able to understand and respect them, or at least trying to. I usually think thoroughly about what are the things that I want to share, how and when. Expressing my own views/values on someone means I respect and trying to connect with that person. So, sharing is a deep thing for us. And if it doesn't turn out the way we want it, let's say that they disagree with our value or just doesn't really care about them... It hurts us really bad, sometimes it feels like disconnected to that person. And it upset us for several days, or months. Sometimes I even stop trying to reconnect again, and just leave it that way.

And somehow I also can understand that everyone has their own value. Not only I'm able to understand it, but I also able to put myself in their shoes, it's like "if i were him probably i would be thinking bla bla bla", so I always try to find his/her reasoning. Why the other person has different value, and I can accept that, even if the value is opposite from mine, i still able to understand that. That's why whenever we try to speak up about our value, we are unable to fully express ourselves, because even when we're explaining our value, deep down inside we're also thinking about "what I should and shouldn't say it without making him/her upset?". My mind would go creating several scenes of "what would happen if I say this" in instant. So usually i try my best to avoid confrontation.

Just yesterday, I had confrontation with my boss. So both of us have different values, I know it from the start so I never speak up. But he's the kind of person who likes to debate (just so he could win). And he started that "debate" by asking me about my views. As an INFJ, I'm very fond of my own views, and would hold it till the day I die. I'm the kind of person that when someone (especially if that person is not that precious for me or just acquaintance) confronting my values, I would just escape the confrontation by saying "okay, you win". No I would not betray my values. At first I tried to slowing it down by not telling him too much, but it seemed that he's so eager to convinced me about his own views and then after a never ending debate, I was so fed up by negative emotions and went to "the hell what i'm going to say" mode. In all of sudden I eat the chips that he gave me before the "debate". He smiled and said "are you hungry?", and I said sarcastically "of course I'm hungry, I've been talking for hours. We're not done yet?". And somehow he seemed so upset and said "i just want to have a chat with you" and left. It made me feel sooo bad...even until now the fact that I made him sad still upset me. I kept thinking "maybe I went too far" but another part of my mind went "well, he caused that, he's the one who confront you about that". And so that's how it goes when INFJ share their thoughts...
This was I what was searching for, it was very interesting to hear. Your intuition is your inner - function. So when someone doesn't respect you for it, you feel personally hurt. Extraverted intuition works the other way around: it doesn't take in the subject to play with the idea. It focuses on the object, but it isn't a part of the xNFP's personality, because extraverted intuition external focus. For example, I had an ENFJ chicken out - for already 1 year - whenever I would bring up a subject he totally avoided, because he didn't agree with me (which he didn't even want to tell me, but was oh so 100% clear). And I think that xNFJ's may do that, because there Fe wants everyone to be accepted. I think ENFJ in this case, couldn't do it, because he liked me as a person. Weird - but now I think about that: an xNFJ complementing you all the time about what you think - about your opinions - is an xNFJ way of saying. I really respect and like you?? :frustrating: Wholy... You're giving my relevations...

Because xNFJ's intuition is such introverted function, I think you guys may have the feeling you would offend someone on a very personal level, by rejecting someone else thoughts. Because it's an integrate part of your personality. You are your thoughts... I think that's why you may be more reluctant to share them freely than we are. Extraverted intuition works like extraverted feeling. About external object X I think/feel... For us it's the other way around. I can never be upset on a personal level by a different thought or opinion - because it doesn't affect me internally - my thoughts are about objects. It's not integrated part of the subject... But when I want to tell someone about my feelings, I plan it as well, it's very deep and hard sharing, and when it turns out bad - or not that I wanted... I can't describe the hurt that causes... I understand so hard what you mean about the sharing.. Shifted introverted - extraverted functions I suppose.
That's how thoughts can be offensive for the xNFJ. Because thoughts are subjective - and so are able to offend another subject.
 

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Thoughts are the greatest divider and connector of man. If I say something that pisses off a room of people, like a classroom, then I can feel all the weight and heat of all those pissed off people. It's not very comfortable, and I try to avoid it when I can. It can be hard for people to level with me, and I've learned that I have to be precise when expressing my views. People like to put thoughts in your head and words in your mouth, and they judge you based on that. My reservation is about avoiding uncomfortableness and misunderstanding. Both of those things stress me out. That, for me, is the danger. You can't unsay what you say, and it's difficult to undo the consequences if something should go wrong.

That's why I tend not to talk unless I have to, lol
 
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