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Discussion Starter #1
idk exaclty from where originate this ethical stuff about the "badness of emotionnal projection" in our culture. This probably have something to do with Freud, or at least have been popularized by, and the association with OCD and differents neuroses possibly gave bad press to it. Enneagram fall into the trap, considering projection as a state of mind wich should be avoided for the six.

I think this is a false "bad", a "ethical common place" mistake, if you want. I dont personnally see projection as inherently "bad", I just understand that can be boring for some. In their core personnality, some have not the "choice" to use it, especially the 6. This is for the six imo the way he relate to the world ; the way he see his mother, his friend, his pet, a stone or his proper creation.
That is not a trait that should be eradicated from a personality, and imo the very trait is not changeable, unless the 6 is ready for a massive self-repression. Just as other possible personnality trait, it can be "ameliorated" (for the lambda man), or "sublimated" (the great man version). Its not something we can or should "see throught" or "avoid to use" like enneagram said about the integrated six : we just can make the projection more universal, more adapted, more harmonious, and paradoxically closer to our real self. This is what I call "integration" when it come to projection, in the sense of becoming more ourself and mature, not just "outwardly mature because other expect that".

This message because when I read about 6 things, I feel sometime that a great deal of the description seem to say "the way a 6 become integrated is to be all stuff other than his real self and ability". Lets stop this garbage.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
EPIC short MANIFEST with only 4 POINTS :

- USE PROJECTION
- AMELIORATE IT
- YOU WILL BE YOURSELF, UNDERSTAND OTHER BETTER and DEVELLOP YOUR REAL PERCEPTIONS/OPINIONS
- FUCK GUYS WHO SAY STOP PROJECTING : chance is they use too projection, but they want to just feel superior than you. These asshole think each time they discover smth in themself, it's bad so no one need to do it, no wonder if they actually do it.
 

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Yeah, I kind of get annoyed with the whole "projection" thing myself. Every type projects.

When I read 6 descriptions, they generally say that 6s a) don't trust their own minds and b) project their fears on others. Then they go on to say that 6s a) need to learn not to trust their own projections and b) need to learn to trust their own minds.

I read this, and I roll my eyes.
 

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There can be good projections. In health care I put people's minds at ease. Sometimes people need a little hope. Sure I know the person probably won't walk again, but if they are determined to try, I see no harm in that. I think even if a goal seems impossible, having it will get the person further than not having it, because it raises the bar. I also project confidence because it helps a person trust that I know what I'm doing. I do that by planning ahead and not hesitating.

As for anxious projecting, I think that's me just expressing myself more so than projecting. Though I guess projecting is when you want others to be on the same wave length. The only people I expect that from is my partner and my family, at times. To some extent or another our lives affect each other and I'd hope if something was really bothering me that it would bother them, especially if I needed support or they had more influence in a situation. I actually think people who are more socially inclined or extroverts might be more likely to project, to more people and more often. It's the whole idea behind a fashion statement etc. etc.

I don't like attention but I do want respect from those I love. For instance my fiances family has been disrespectful towards me by being too publicly friendly to his ex wife. In that regard I sure expected for my fiance to understand how I was feeling and that, they were disregarding my role in his life. Though I still feel upset with them, I'm fine in the fact that my fiance supports me and doesn't contact her and feed her hungry attention seeking ego. I could act like she's acting and project this friendship I want the whole world to see with his family but I choose to be my genuine self. When I really love people I don't have a need to project it because I'm private and I feel like when I do that I'm seeking the approval of others when the relationship is between me and that person. I am opening up and doing that more to make people feel special, like my esfj childhood best friend really responds well to that. etc.
 

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I suppose it depends on how you project. I know that I project my own negative feelings on other people all the time and it causes all sorts of issues. I don't really want to do that anymore. I guess I don't feel I can trust my own mind, because I realize that my automatic negativity is wrong 99% of the time. Why should I trust that? So I guess I think a type six, or at least me, has to find the difference between trusting overly negative responses and negative projections, and finding the instinctual part of me under all that which is far more realistic. It's a confusing mess, but I'm getting better at it slowly... I've learned to tell the difference a lot through the way my body feels. When I'm being overly negative and and fear projecting my entire head tightens and I feel like my brain is short circuiting. When I feel the more instinctual side, it actually does feel more like it's coming from my gut area and rising and my brain clears.
 

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Psychological projection was first conceptualized by Sigmund Freud as a defense mechanism where a person subconsciously denies his or her own negative attributes by ascribing them to objects or persons in the outside world instead. Thus, projection involves imagining or projecting faults onto others.[1] The original idea was that projection would allow for reduced anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted unconscious impulses or desires without letting the conscious mind recognize them.
Hmm...

I PROBABLY do it, BUT I'm unaware when and how I do it. I know my Mother does this a LOT and it is very annoying. She is a 6w7 too so myeah....she basically accuses others of things she is afraid of or is thinking of. I can see how I do the same.

The thing that amuses me is when I'm questioning Fi vs Fe and someone will say something along the lines of me being a 6, so I am projecting Fi and to me it looks like Fe. Now the problem with this is that I know what I'm feeling/valuing and its not what I think others are feeling, unless I start valuing what they are valuing so that they like me better (usually I don't feel shit as I can't maintain or internally generate intense feeling without an outside influence). Either that or I must be so unaware of what I'm feeling/valuing that I'm projecting it, thus I'm not a Fi dom (logic fail?).

I mean sure, I can imagine me reciting all the ways I fear I could fail in a situation to someone else as if they would, but when it comes to me being in that situation I'll just figure it out and manage. Sometimes I project my fears on others because I can't control what they do and don't know whether they will manage, but when I have to do the same thing, the fears take a backseat, because now I AM IN CONTROL.

I sometimes take control of situations exactly because I'm overwhelmed by anxiety and then project my fear of them being incompetent and unable to handle the situation. At this point I usually think that I'm more capable and I usually am very capable of managing crisis situations.
 

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No, I am going to disagree, heavily.

There is very rarely some kind of value or merit that can be found in projection... unless there is some Enneagram-specific definition of "projection" that I am unaware of. And, so. Let me speak about projection in a strictly mundane sense.

Projection is bad because it obscures reality, truth, and the other person's identity.

Do we all do it? Sure. It is about inevitable as prejudice and bias. In fact, those things are often one in the same, but that doesn't male it permissible. Is projection inherently bad? Well, I don't normally like calling anything inherently bad, but it really doesn't have a lot of merit.

Can it be a form of expression and communication? Is your sense of reality any less valid than another's? Not at all, but if you are projecting and are unaware of it... taking your emotions as superior and dictating how another's must be... then you have crossed a terrible line. Let others be who they are as much you should be who you are. You can feel and express yourself without projection. Projection, by definition in my opinion, is viewing another through your own emotional lenses which makes interpersonal progress practically impossible in my opinion.

Understand how you feel, understand how another feels, and then 'integrate' to find a common consensus and reality to work upon.
 
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Discussion Starter #8
sure sure sure but Im not here for thinking I am logicaly unbiased or some other genius. Im just myself. What I do ? projection. What I can do ? instead of refusing it (this can lead to wrecked situations), ameliorating it.
 
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