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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So firstly id like to apologise to those who have seen me already make a thread about typing me before, I dont want you to think your efforts are wasted.

But ive recently become a little uncertain. Up until this uncertainty I had considered myself to possess the cognitive functions of an INFJ. However while I can identify Ni and Ti, or what I believe Ni and Ti to be, I cannot identify Fe as a strong prescence in my evaluations.

Of course there are different theories floating about. Only recently someone posted a thread about the nature of the tertiary function and how, rather than being inferior to the auxiliary, they sit side by side with each other as a couple of counterbalances to the dominant. Then of course there are cognitive function tests which put across the idea that we possess all 8 but to different degrees.

Lasty of course there is MBTI, a series of grouped letters designed to identify a person's 4 most prevelent functions as part of a catagory of 16 types for measuring behaviour.

Obviously there are probably many other intepretations, but my main problem is: Is the problem with my understanding of MBTI or MBTI itself?

Sorry there arent many questions for people to go off to help type me. Basically im a rather perfectionistic person who can get a bit intense and yet at the same time I possess a rather faecitious sense of humour, sometimes I do wind people up and push buttons, but I usually only do this to friends and they know im joking.

Im usually not a part of any group im with but I often feel like I should be. I feel obligated to join in and laugh or say the right thing at the right time in terms of social convention, but I also feel that if I did this I would lose some part of me that is me so I dont always go along with it.

As a child I was quite nervous and prone to lashing out verbally and physically at those around me, especially if they invaded my personal space. People have noted, especially my parents, that they could not read me in terms of body language or facial expression, my dad in particular expressed a bit of a worry that he could never tell what I was going to do in a situation and it made him nervous.

Ironic considering that his temper and outbursts make me feel the same way. Im not a conflictual person and sometimes this is to a fault. Oddly these days it is as if ive learnt to be more relaxed and opened up, because im far more visually expressive than I used to be.

However I always feel an obligation to help my closest friends and family if they are in trouble, it has been a great source of internal conflict for me that on the one hand is this ideal but on the other is the reality that I am selfish and sometimes I dont like getting dragged into other people's drama. Unfortunately I rarely express this.

Im not sure if I see things in a systemic or logical way, or not. I know that gender bias and roles make us believe we possess traits that often we dont. I have especially noticed many unhealthy male personalities who are adamant that they are using rational, sensible logic, as opposed to the reality of using sensible, rational values. Of course being unhealthy these are more often expressed as irrational and selfish values.

But then again we all possess thinking and feeling so an unhealthy thinker might confuse their flawed logic as being the most sensible choice when in reality it is out of touch with those around him/her. Ok im going off topic.

Im at my happiest when im barely succeeding, I enjoy doing small out of the way jobs because I cannot visualise any future in which I do well in a professional career. This is mainly because I am, for the most part, opposed to competitiveness in life. The competitiveness of the job market, intelligence and life in general seems abhorrent to me.

Not to mention as long as im doing something I dont have my parents worrying about my future and adding to my own worries. Most of my hobbies are both group and personal based. I enjoy painting models and playing warhammer as ive mentioned far too often on here and I frequently visit two different clubs.

To me this is like a social top up, ive spent 5 days in the house, but now I can go out and socialise for just long enough for me and then retreat back home to recharge my batteries. However if you were to meet me in such an environment you would find quite a loud and expressive personality who seems to delight in the company of others.

However I cant escape my need for alone time, I feel both energised by people and by spending time with my thoughts. When younger I would spend months at time by myself without anyone around me and I felt great, but then again I feel great when around others, although at first I am extremely shy in a new environment. I do sometimes miss social cues as well, which is odd because secretly I define myself via others, I have my own individual thoughts but what I really desire is group affirmation and validation, this might be because ive never had it.

I also seem to be a little argumentative without really realising it, sometimes I look at something online or go over what someone has said in my mind and it doesn't fit, there is some flaw or error on their part that I believe ive spotted. However I often get this wrong or jump the gun, im not crusader of rights though, it is merely that I feel strongly about incorrectness or what I perceive as shortsightedness when it comes to other's opinions on things or how they put them forwards.

Of course for every time I do argue there are 500 times im not. I usually overlook things and pretend to ignore them so as to preserve some harmony when im around others. However I also get quite annoyed when someone is completely ignoring what are the rigid and realistic facts of a situation, there are some facts you cannot argue against and which have nothing to do with reliability, yet some people argue against them anyhow which I cannot understand. Often it isn't a case of maybe's or might be's it truely just IS. In that sense I suppose you could say I dislike it when people look for grey reasoning where there is none.

Although a bit of a grey reasoner myself, I can usually judge when it is best to admit the subtleties of a situation or discussion and when it is best to adhere to the facts.

I also get really annoyed when I fail or do not succeed to my own level of standards, I also become frustrated and angry when I dont see an immediate solution to something, whether tangible or not.

I suppose im just a contradiction, many of my morals are personal and subjective, this might seem dangerous to some but im extremely objective on the important ones, the ones which concern life and death.
I always seem to be swinging back and forth across spectrums, never settling, which is odd because this is what I do naturally.

That cant be right can it? I suppose my main goal in life is to live and die, not in a simplistic sense, but I dont seem to have the same ties others do, friends and family come and go but I exist.

I want to hold onto them, but I dont know how. Essentially I want to be free of worries, guilts and prejudices, I want to scream 'FUCK IT' and just enjoy my life in my own way and hopefully bring the ones I love along for the ride. But I dont possess the charisma or charm needed for this and I doubt I ever will.

Oh and just for fun and as a bit of a reward for reading all this, or just scrolling down:

 

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Put MBTI on the backburner for now. It's meant as a supplement to cognititve functions. Read Jung's book "Psychological Types". It gives his description of the functions. I don't know if it's allowed to give you a direct link so I'll just say you can find a pdf of the book on Google.
 

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Obviously there are probably many other intepretations, but my main problem is: Is the problem with my understanding of MBTI or MBTI itself?

Im usually not a part of any group im with but I often feel like I should be. I feel obligated to join in and laugh or say the right thing at the right time in terms of social convention, but I also feel that if I did this I would lose some part of me that is me so I dont always go along with it.
However I always feel an obligation to help my closest friends and family if they are in trouble, it has been a great source of internal conflict for me that on the one hand is this ideal.
(Assuming you're an FJ) That sounds like it might be Fe - forming judgements such as, "being part of a group is good", "helping people you are close to is good", "laughing along with people is good" not because you personally feel that way, but because you feel it should be that way because of things you have perceived. But I don't really know.

I have suspicions about the validity of MBTI. I see it more as how people do things instead of why they do things. Enneagram might be better for the why, or even other theories such as Jung's on the ego/shadow/unconscious etc, or Adler's or Freud's theories etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
(Assuming you're an FJ) That sounds like it might be Fe - forming judgements such as, "being part of a group is good", "helping people you are close to is good", "laughing along with people is good" not because you personally feel that way, but because you feel it should be that way because of things you have perceived. But I don't really know.

I have suspicions about the validity of MBTI. I see it more as how people do things instead of why they do things. Enneagram might be better for the why, or even other theories such as Jung's on the ego/shadow/unconscious etc, or Adler's or Freud's theories etc.
Put MBTI on the backburner for now. It's meant as a supplement to cognititve functions. Read Jung's book "Psychological Types". It gives his description of the functions. I don't know if it's allowed to give you a direct link so I'll just say you can find a pdf of the book on Google.
Fortunately I own the book and im in the process of going through it now. It's really engaging stuff. Thanks both of you for replying.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Ok sorry to bump this but ive just found some new evidence that may or may not be useful.

So about 15 minutes ago I was talking to a friend of mine that I play games with and he went off on a tangent, (from a discussion about the latest star wars game mmo), all about alien life and the conception of the size of the universe and he had all these theories about the human race going in cycles, (which sounded like the plot of assasins creed if you ask me), and how the US government had covered up the Roswell incident and how they had access to all sorts of incredibly enhanced equipment but they wouldn't let on.

Then there was something about obsidian stone or something to do with the pyramids.

Essentially I just switched off listening to him drone on and on and kept going "Uh-huh" over the mic. Rude I suppose but this made me realise that I dont actually enjoy wild theories of this nature.

A lot of what he was saying was gibberish to me and I knew that he thought I was stupid and that it had gone over my head, primarily because I didn't really add much to the discussion, but I had no opinions on them since I didn't care, of course he also asked literally whether it had gone over my head because I was so 'silent' on the mic.

This made me wonder on the nature of perhaps feeling vs thinking? What he was talking about and the way he put it forward sounded like rampant Ti to me. It was all connections based around loose correlations with no real proof or useage, i'm more interested in the nature of people and their motivations I would have been interested if he had been talking about an application for the benefit of others. Although it must be noted that im not saying that people who possess Ti as a function will necessarily do this.



Although nothing annoys me more than being underestimated and others assuming that I am ignorant or shallow of thought. He clearly thought that this was some kind of massive mind-fuck for me, a revelation that I had not previously considered when in reality id considered such things but not to the extent he had, because I just wasn't interested in them.

Most of the more wild conspiracy theories come across as complete nonsense anyhow. I expect there are probably coverups and secrets, but that is to be expected, governments the world over probably conceal information that they believe is harmful to the general populace or just their own misdeeds. Of course whether or not this is justified or right is part of another discussion that im not going into here.

However this discussion, or rather one sided being talked at, actually annoyed me a little, I found myself a little angry at his suppositions about me and his theories which had no basis in reality or conception beyond what he could cognitively bias together.

While I didn't express this anger, it did make me consider my cognitive functions and whether or not I was merely misunderstanding the theory as well as my myself, which brought me back here.

The stereotypes of sensors not liking theories is a load of rubbish of course, which is why I mentioned thinking vs feeling and not sensing vs intuition.
Afterall my friend here could easily be an ISTP or ISFP getting in touch with his Ni. Although the way he jumped around from idea to idea made me suspect ENTP or INTP.

The point is that in the nature of who I am, I wanted to refute his points, call them nonsense, ask for proof. But I knew there was no point because the intense conviction of what he was talking about meant that any questioning along those lines would most likely result in him accusing me of not understanding his concepts or being small minded.

I could tell this from little signals and his general demeanor; I was here to be lectured not to give input. I couldnt see any future possibility in which he would accept what I wanted to ask, without it turning into a 'you just dont understand' or 'you are too stupid to understand' style of back and forth. So I said nothing apart from 'Uh-huh' and 'Yeah makes some sense'.

Some of what he said did make sense of course and I could see the correlation, but im a bit of a one track minded person, I need to be allowed time to work on one idea extensively at a time, jumping around all the time and being given so many different ideas at once just gives me a headache.

I work through depth not extensivity. So what do you think?
 

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Hmm...I'm thinking you seem like an Fe aux. type to me. You seem concerned with others enough to have it high up there. Aux. Fe, tert. Ti makes sense from what I'm getting out of this. That person you're talking about sounds like a tert. or inferior Ni type in terms of conspiracy theorist stereotypes (e.g. the conspiracy theories are pretty generic). Also, I agree with everything @alionsroar said.
 
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Hmm...I'm thinking you seem like an Fe aux. type to me. You seem concerned with others enough to have it high up there. Aux. Fe, tert. Ti makes sense from what I'm getting out of this. That person you're talking about sounds like a tert. or inferior Ni type in terms of conspiracy theorist stereotypes (e.g. the conspiracy theories are pretty generic). Also, I agree with everything @alionsroar said.
Thanks for the answer, yeah Fe aux does seem to make a lot more sense. I think the problem is that im trying to balance what I believe my obligations to others and their ideas are, with my own ideas.

So I had a misrepresented notion of what the functions were because I assumed what others had told me was correct, but reading Jung's book is definitely a minds-eye-opener. Im actually leaning more towards Si now than Ni because his description of it is so far removed from anything ive ever read of it before, the tradionalistic tendendcies of Keirsey's rubbish and even the MBTI one, are nothing like this.

It also helps that his description seems so familiar to me or rather....relatable. That might put me under the heading of ISFJ.
 
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