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Hey guys, i'm new to both the cafe and this forum. I'm an enfp female who is really hoping some Istp's on here can help me to understand my istp husband. Before I cut to the chase I want to clarify I do not stereotype personalities. That being said, I have been with my Istp husband for 8 years and just recently caught him seeing another woman. They met 5 months ago at an autozone where she works. He recieved a text which I checked (we do things like that, we are both very open), and it was from girl I had never met. There was a nude pic on there and I have to say I felt like someone hit me with a truck. My husband and I are best friends. We ran away together when we were 19 and it's almost 10 years later. We are very open with each other and our relationship is very positive. We have lots of sex (hope that isn't tmi), hang out and laugh often, do extracurricular activities together such as hiking, trail riding, rock climbing etc. We have two kids ages 3 and 2 months. If someone would have asked me if I ever thought if my husband would ever cheat, I would have bet my life that he wouldn't. I didn't flip out on him when I found out btw. I was calm up until I broke down crying. Other than hanging out and exchange of a nude pic on her part nothing happened. Just so you know enfp's are more hurt by crimes of the heart than actual infidelity. So basically he might as well have slept with her, I couldn't feel any worse. He explained it wasn't a sexual thing and it was more of an adrenaline thing. She is artisan and so apparently they just got along well. He took me to meet her and the conversation was polite. He allowed me to ask questions and then ended it with her right in front of me. According to them both she pursued him and he turned her down multiple times before giving in. I really was/am more hurt than anything. He is my guy and I want him forever. I told him I will not be with anyone who does not want me and to please be honest. She text him the next day and said "thanks for the awkwardness yesterday. And dude,seriously, your wife is SO PRETTY". He showed me the text then deleted her number again without replying. He said he can't see himself with anyone else. It's been a week since all of this and I still feel so confused. Enfp's are VERY good at reading people so I do believe this was the first time and that he was honest about his feelings. But why?! Why did he do this in the first place? I do not understand, we are VERY close and get along great. And maybe I won't ever understand since enfp's and istp's are so opposite. I'm wondering if istp's on here can help give me some insight and guidance on the situation as a whole, or just understanding him better. I hope you guys don't think I'm whack lol. I feel like a fish out of water on an Istp forum. Thanks in advance:)
 

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i see where you're coming from here, but i wouldn't say this has anything to do with his mbti type.

i would really suggest couples counseling, seriously. he really did cross the line, it was disrespectful to you and he was playing with fire. a few drinks and who knows how much it would have escalated.
 

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Wow, that is pretty rough. :/ I'm sorry you're going through such a sh*tty situation.

It sounds like you both really care about each other, and that you have an overall good relationship. But regardless of how your husband handled it and "broke it off" or whatever, he screwed up big time. There were a number of ways he could have cut it off, and he could have been upfront with you in the process, especially if he knows you see his phone. Who would want to find out that way?

However, while I don't know either of you personally, it sounds like he may be open to resolving this. I think a commitment to couple's therapy is really the best approach. You both need to prove you're still in this, because words are just words, and deleting a number is just deleting a number. The reason I say both, is because both parties can get their head messed up when things like this happen. For you, it's obvious why. For him, it could be many things. Just a for instance, he could become so overwhelmed with guilt he starts imagining you're punishing him and he may begin lashing out as a result of his own unresolved issues.
 

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However, while I don't know either of you personally, it sounds like he may be open to resolving this. I think a commitment to couple's therapy is really the best approach. You both need to prove you're still in this, because words are just words, and deleting a number is just deleting a number. The reason I say both, is because both parties can get their head messed up when things like this happen. For you, it's obvious why. For him, it could be many things. Just a for instance, he could become so overwhelmed with guilt he starts imagining you're punishing him and he may begin lashing out as a result of his own unresolved issues.
^^YES. Very insightful. He could also start becoming paranoid that he is 'trapped' with you.
 

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Your feelings are completely legitimate. I would feel the same way. It's great that your husband has considered your feelings and his actions. Many men would say it wasn't a big deal and you're overreacting. It's a step in the right direction that he ended the friendship with this woman. I don't know in what way he was "hanging out" with this woman - if it was with a group of people from work or what - but married people need to be very conscious of who they're choosing to hang out with and why. It's easy to make some big mistakes without even realizing it, because at first it all seems harmless enough. It's very possible that's what happened with your husband, and your finding that picture on his phone was his wake-up call, and his ending it with her in front of you was his way of showing you that he recognized the problem and wanted to make it right for you.

If it's any consolation, I've learned that the majority of married people who are unfaithful in any way do so not because their spouse isn't enough for them but because they have some problem in relation to their spouse and it's easier to act out outside the marriage than it is to confront the real issue in the real relationship that really matters to them and risk real vulnerability with the person whose love they never, ever want to lose or endanger. I'm not saying that's what's going on with your husband - I don't know you two - it's very possible it was an innocent enough friendship that just took a wrong turn before he saw it for what it was and realized he needed to correct it. I'm just trying to reassure you that you're the one he loves. I think it's important for you to be honest with him about the things you're feeling now, and to be likewise open to him, don't push him away. This could be an opportunity to grow closer than ever.
 

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One more thought: have you seen the movie "Fireproof"? I hear it's about a person who has an affair that isn't a full-blown, sexually-active affair, and that the message of the movie is strongly in support of marriage. Just an idea.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
He related it to his mbti type which is why I started researching it. I told him that was not a valid excuse because we all have the choice to say yes or no however we may be feeling, no matter what our type. I personally do not stereotype personalities however I am clueless to the way an Istp's brain works, thought process etc. I feel as if I'm just grasping for some reasoning. Counseling is a good idea, I will suggest that. However I already know he will not care for that idea.
 

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Your feelings are completely legitimate. I would feel the same way. It's great that your husband has considered your feelings and his actions. Many men would say it wasn't a big deal and you're overreacting. It's a step in the right direction that he ended the friendship with this woman. I don't know in what way he was "hanging out" with this woman - if it was with a group of people from work or what - but married people need to be very conscious of who they're choosing to hang out with and why. It's easy to make some big mistakes without even realizing it, because at first it all seems harmless enough. It's very possible that's what happened with your husband, and your finding that picture on his phone was his wake-up call, and his ending it with her in front of you was his way of showing you that he recognized the problem and wanted to make it right for you.

If it's any consolation, I've learned that the majority of married people who are unfaithful in any way do so not because their spouse isn't enough for them but because they have some problem in relation to their spouse and it's easier to act out outside the marriage than it is to confront the real issue in the real relationship that really matters to them and risk real vulnerability with the person whose love they never, ever want to lose or endanger. I'm not saying that's what's going on with your husband - I don't know you two - it's very possible it was an innocent enough friendship that just took a wrong turn before he saw it for what it was and realized he needed to correct it. I'm just trying to reassure you that you're the one he loves. I think it's important for you to be honest with him about the things you're feeling now, and to be likewise open to him, don't push him away. This could be an opportunity to grow closer than ever.
Thank you :)
 

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First I want to say ((((HUGS)))) I am truly sorry you have had to go through this. I personally do not know if this has anything to do with MBTI type but I have been in similar situations with my ISTP.

My husband is charming and truly very thoughtful to other people. I have called him 'Mr. Nice Guy.' A lot of unhealthy needy girls gravitate towards him because he will listen to pretty much anyone with any issues. They become attached through his listening and he was completely oblivious to this behavior. That being said about 7 years ago this did lead to an infidelity situation. I can tell you at the time our marriage was very unhealthy. We both were overworked and had a kind of constant power struggle going on. He was hesitant to commit to anything throughout the first half of our relationship. He was also very unaware of how manipulative needy girls can act when they want something. Over the years I've lovingly talked to him about these issues and it has made him much more committed and realize how certain behaviors can lead to certain actions. I told him very plainly, 'I know how they think because I was one.' A girl does not spill all of her personal issues without a motivation behind it - period end of story.

I was out of state when it happened and he was drunk in a bar at a birthday party. They did not have complete sex but close enough. He tried to keep it hidden for 6 months. The build up of guilt caused him to have sex issues. I racked my brain for months wondering what was wrong with me and every possible scenario. I even questioned at one point if he was gay - truthfully I think I could have accepted that more-so. One night (out of seemingly nowhere - I still couldn't explain where it came from) my intuition nagged me to ask 'Is there someone else?' He responded, 'Well there was...' I flipped out. Total INFJ emotional rage mode, throwing anything I could get my hands on and crying/ screaming. I didn't let him touch me again for well over a month. That night he cried and wouldn't leave my side, actually laying on the floor next to wherever I sat. I hit a numb state of pain and then logic took over. I wanted to know everything, ALL the details and I told him - 'if you want to make this work YOU need to do something about it. This is on YOU not me.' The next day he called our state employee mental help hotline to get into a counselor. Over time I calmed down and logically started connecting dots about the state of our relationship. We only went to counseling a few times but I made an internal decision to stay. In my decision is where I found my strength. The counselor told him that it was up to him to not get into these situations again and I think it helped hearing it from an outside source for him.

After this happened there was one girl he worked with that kept cycling through coworkers - to each their own, but I don't want my husband ANYWHERE near that mess. He would tell me stories about how she was confiding in him and I got extremely nervous. He honestly didn't see anything wrong in her sharing or behaviors. Totally unaware. I finally lost it the day she left a note on his facebook page about 'finding her DD-cup.' Very obvious innuendo and he was oblivious. When he said 'not cool' to her after he saw I was upset, she said 'Oh what's the big deal?!? I was joking about my Dunkin Donuts cup!' Yeah right.... When I told him how this affected me personally and outwardly to the public he finally took note of it. I told him it made me look like he didn't care at all and that he had no care what this behavior showed about his interactions to others.

Both of our parents had been in similar situations and they are still married. I found out about my Dad's infidelity when I was a teen and saw that my mother made his life a living hell from hurting her. His parents on the other hand tried to run away from it. He was at Basic when it happened and did not see what his mom went through at all. His Dad couldn't handle the pressure and gossip so he literally left his family for 2 years and moved out of state. She followed and has an attitude of 'I'll go wherever he goes.' She did not and does not stand up for herself. I know both are unhealthy scenarios and I did not want that for myself. So I told him I will not beat him down for eons over it but we WILL continue to work through this. It has worked and although I will always be cautious of people's intentions now, we talk through it. It does take strength from a decision and constant commitment from both.
 
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Other than hanging out and exchange of a nude pic on her part nothing happened. Just so you know enfp's are more hurt by crimes of the heart than actual infidelity. So basically he might as well have slept with her, I couldn't feel any worse. He explained it wasn't a sexual thing and it was more of an adrenaline thing.
......
Enfp's are VERY good at reading people so I do believe this was the first time and that he was honest about his feelings. But why?! Why did he do this in the first place? I do not understand, we are VERY close and get along great. And maybe I won't ever understand since enfp's and istp's are so opposite. I'm wondering if istp's on here can help give me some insight and guidance on the situation as a whole, or just understanding him better. I hope you guys don't think I'm whack lol. I feel like a fish out of water on an Istp forum. Thanks in advance:)
Okay, let me be the bad guy here and say the unpopular things.

First of all, your feelings and emotions are valid. Never let anyone tell you otherwise. He should not hurt them.

That aside, the actual thing seems to be quite minor: a girl chased your husband and after being told off several times managed to get him accept a nude pic. Right? Though he clearly knew he shouldn't - he wouldn't have told her off otherwise - he still apparently didn't think that much of it, either, as he didn't hide it or delete the picture. I wonder - how much had you talked about what constitutes cheating? Have you discussed things like newspieces about people cheating on facebook or something similar? How well does he know what you consider cheating and what not? You said that you are good at reading people and that you didn't pick up any intentions etc of cheating - maybe it is because she - or the whole thing - just wasn't that important to him?

I have to say that my "native" thought is that there is a lot of gray area between being an acquantance with someone and cheating. For me there is no clear line what's okay and what's not, and I regularly get baffled about things other people might or might not consider inappropriate. For me it would be actually quite trivial to flirt with someone in a pub or in a chat room and forget about it next day. I would not send nudes, but receiving them would be just a step away from glancing Men's Health in the grocery store; I would take it as entertainment and not as attachment of any kind. My bottom line is this: don't expect him to have same understanding and idea about what is cheating and what is not nor understand your opinions if you haven't talked about the matter openly and in enough detail. I'm not saying this to defend him, though, but maybe to understand one of the possible reasons.

I now have dated an INFP since some years, so I can understand where you come from. My S.O. has very different opinions of this whole matter of relationships than what I have, and it has taken me a while to accept his point of view. I have come to understand that for him many things unimportant to me would be a big deal. I still can't say that I would be totally sure of exactly what he would have a problem with and what not, as we haven't taken that discussion to details yet. In kinky circles it's common to give one's new partner a form, a list of things, and mark which of them are okay, which need to be talked about first and which are not okay ever. It's very awkward form to fill, but doing so provides a lot of information and insight to the other person's needs, wants and fears. Then, of course, the things allowed would be those, and only those, both are okay with. Sometimes, maybe right now, it would be a good idea to make such a silly-sounding list of different actions and behaviors, have both of you to mark which behaviors from your partner you would accept and which not - and then swap the lists, compare and talk it out: "How can you think X is (not) okay? What would you really think if I did that? What would you do?"

The bottom line of this post is that the his fault is not so much accepting the picture per se, but hurting your feelings by accepting that picture. I doubt it's actually a "crime of heart", because I doubt his heart was involved in this crime - and this, of course, is the real problem: NOT paying too much attention to another girl, BUT paying too little attention to you and your feelings.

Does this make any sense to you?
 
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Shit, man. Have him read this. That's what I always say. He would point out his personality to show that it wasn't a big deal to him. You need to have him understand that his carelessness does not make it okay in any shape or form. Deleting her number and moving on might make it okay for him, but he needs to be more attentive to you. He needs to show that he feels your betrayal, and respond to your feelings, not his lack of feeling.
 

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One more thing. ISTPs tend to be rather clueless and somewhat naive in social matters. Not that I'm trying to make excuses for your husband, I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt ( which is something I generally believe is the right thing to do until someone has proven they don't deserve it.) I would be much more concerned if he were an ENFJ, for example, in this same situation. I would expect an FJ to have a greater awareness of a situation they're in as it's developing, and I know as an ISTP I tend to be oblivious to them and to another person's intentions until things have gotten a little out of control, and then I realize I have a problem and I have to figure out what to do about it. That goes for all kinds of situations. My life would be so much simpler if other people were not involved. :| ;)

One thing that's true for me (and maybe for other ISTPs as well?) is that I tend to be oblivious about things - especially personal things - until I finally catch on, and then once I start to realize something it's like the dam breaks and I quickly understand the whole situation - the whole big thing and all its parts - in depth. I tend not to make the same mistake twice. If your husband's an ISTP this could be his learning curve as well.
 
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It could be helpful if you'd try to analyze to yourself, and then to him, what exactly you are feeling: are you afraid of losing him, are you disappointed because he looked at someone else, are you feeling disrespected because you feel a promise has been broken, and so on. If you just say "I feel bad" it doesn't tell an ISTP anything at all. We need details. Invite him for a journey to find out what you're feeling and what exactly did trigger it. That could help him to understand your point of view better.
 
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Okay, let me be the bad guy here and say the unpopular things.

First of all, your feelings and emotions are valid. Never let anyone tell you otherwise. He should not hurt them.

That aside, the actual thing seems to be quite minor: a girl chased your husband and after being told off several times managed to get him accept a nude pic. Right? Though he clearly knew he shouldn't - he wouldn't have told her off otherwise - he still apparently didn't think that much of it, either, as he didn't hide it or delete the picture. I wonder - how much had you talked about what constitutes cheating? Have you discussed things like newspieces about people cheating on facebook or something similar? How well does he know what you consider cheating and what not? You said that you are good at reading people and that you didn't pick up any intentions etc of cheating - maybe it is because she - or the whole thing - just wasn't that important to him?

I have to say that my "native" thought is that there is a lot of gray area between being an acquantance with someone and cheating. For me there is no clear line what's okay and what's not, and I regularly get baffled about things other people might or might not consider inappropriate. For me it would be actually quite trivial to flirt with someone in a pub or in a chat room and forget about it next day. I would not send nudes, but receiving them would be just a step away from glancing Men's Health in the grocery store; I would take it as entertainment and not as attachment of any kind. My bottom line is this: don't expect him to have same understanding and idea about what is cheating and what is not nor understand your opinions if you haven't talked about the matter openly and in enough detail. I'm not saying this to defend him, though, but maybe to understand one of the possible reasons.

I now have dated an INFP since some years, so I can understand where you come from. My S.O. has very different opinions of this whole matter of relationships than what I have, and it has taken me a while to accept his point of view. I have come to understand that for him many things unimportant to me would be a big deal. I still can't say that I would be totally sure of exactly what he would have a problem with and what not, as we haven't taken that discussion to details yet. In kinky circles it's common to give one's new partner a form, a list of things, and mark which of them are okay, which need to be talked about first and which are not okay ever. It's very awkward form to fill, but doing so provides a lot of information and insight to the other person's needs, wants and fears. Then, of course, the things allowed would be those, and only those, both are okay with. Sometimes, maybe right now, it would be a good idea to make such a silly-sounding list of different actions and behaviors, have both of you to mark which behaviors from your partner you would accept and which not - and then swap the lists, compare and talk it out: "How can you think X is (not) okay? What would you really think if I did that? What would you do?"

The bottom line of this post is that the his fault is not so much accepting the picture per se, but hurting your feelings by accepting that picture. I doubt it's actually a "crime of heart", because I doubt his heart was involved in this crime - and this, of course, is the real problem: NOT paying too much attention to another girl, BUT paying too little attention to you and your feelings.

Does this make any sense to you?
You gave much food for thought. Yes she was the one who did the chasing for the most part, however he kept returning to see her at HER place of work. At one point they went and rented a red box movie and took it back to her house where they "hung out". According to both parties nothing happened. Later she wanted more I guess and he said he can't because he is in a relationship. Then she sent the nude pic saying "how about now". In which he replied "tempting". The funny thing is he deleted so much of the conversation ahead of time outside of normal chitchat, but he didn't delete the picture. He still kept talking/texting with her even after that. He also admitted he knew there was a high possibility things would go too far. As far as both of us being on the same page as what constitutes cheating we are both fully aware of where to draw the line. Pretty much neither of would do anything we don't want the other person doing if that makes sense. When we were dating almost 10 years ago there was a guy I hung out with in a group setting once and afterwards he made it very clear if I was serious about my relationship with him neither of us should give the opposite sex any unnecessary attention. Which he was right. If there is attraction one thing can very easily lead to another. My fear was and still is that he at some point started feeling something for this girl. However he assured me that wasn't the case in the slightest. I do appreciate you pointing out that a possible reason for me not picking up on the sneaking around was perhaps because it really didn't mean anything to him. Maybe you are right and I can breathe a sigh of relief. The interesting part is before this if anyone would have asked me how much I loved him I would have replied I couldn't possibly love him any more, we were perfect. Now he says he realizes how important this relationship is to him and I feel like I'm so torn I wonder if I will ever get those feelings back. Its a sucky place to be. I feel very betrayed.
 

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You gave much food for thought. Yes she was the one who did the chasing for the most part, however he kept returning to see her at HER place of work. At one point they went and rented a red box movie and took it back to her house where they "hung out". According to both parties nothing happened. Later she wanted more I guess and he said he can't because he is in a relationship. Then she sent the nude pic saying "how about now". In which he replied "tempting". The funny thing is he deleted so much of the conversation ahead of time outside of normal chitchat, but he didn't delete the picture. He still kept talking/texting with her even after that. He also admitted he knew there was a high possibility things would go too far.
The "Tempting" could be something I could say just to say something and, well, draw the conversation out some more, so that reply doesn't necessarily mean much. If he himself said that there was the risk of things happening, then that's his honest analysis of things, I'd say. I still don't believe that he cared about that girl more or even as much as he cares for you, as he was sensible enough to put brakes on and all, but that you of course knew already

As far as both of us being on the same page as what constitutes cheating we are both fully aware of where to draw the line. Pretty much neither of would do anything we don't want the other person doing if that makes sense. When we were dating almost 10 years ago there was a guy I hung out with in a group setting once and afterwards he made it very clear if I was serious about my relationship with him neither of us should give the opposite sex any unnecessary attention. Which he was right.
"Don't do things upon others you wouldn't want others to do upon you" isn't detailed enough, but if he himself has told you to stop a specific behavior, going against his own rules is clearly wrong of him. There is no doubt that he knew this - or at least should've known had he stopped to think - as well.

If there is attraction one thing can very easily lead to another. My fear was and still is that he at some point started feeling something for this girl. However he assured me that wasn't the case in the slightest. I do appreciate you pointing out that a possible reason for me not picking up on the sneaking around was perhaps because it really didn't mean anything to him. Maybe you are right and I can breathe a sigh of relief. The interesting part is before this if anyone would have asked me how much I loved him I would have replied I couldn't possibly love him any more, we were perfect. Now he says he realizes how important this relationship is to him and I feel like I'm so torn I wonder if I will ever get those feelings back. Its a sucky place to be. I feel very betrayed.
I understand what you say about the risk, and yes, you're right. That's always possible. Still, if we commit we're usually stay committed, and his commitment still is with you. But even if he was just interested in an exciting way to spend some time and nothing more, he still is an ass for not considering you and your feelings. It's not like he hadn't any chances to. He has deliberately chosen to play with fire, he has decided to continue even if he knew it was a damned bad idea and wrong against you, and now the fire is upon him. It doesn't really matter what happened and what didn't because a trust lost is a very difficult thing to recover.

Maybe he has now really realized something, or rather, remembered the fire he one knew, the one that had become too comfortable a warmth with time. ... I mean, if he wanted to run away, now would be a perfect time to do so. Still he's around. But it's also a stupid thing to say, because how stupid can a person be so that it took him this many years? Even if I risk sounding like a senile old maid giving oh-so-relevant advice to everyone passing by, I toss an idea: maybe the relationship you guys had, good as it was, was so comfortable that he felt he wanted some excitement, a rush... not necessarily an emotional one or a physical one, but just the idea of doing something new and exciting, and forbidden things are usually exciting. Because, honestly it still doesn't even look like he'd been really hiding things from you in such a guilty manner. It sort of looks to me (without me knowing anything real about anything, of course, so I'm speaking in the confident tone of one who knows nothing about the matter) that maybe he sort of wanted to stop the thing but found it difficult - so you finding it out was something that forced / would force him to make a real decision. If so, it's quite cowardly as well as thoughtless of him to throw the weight of the whole thing on your shoulders instead of dealing with it himself.

You know those comics and stories and whatnots where the wife finds out that her husband has been naughty and complains, to which the husband always replies: "But honey, she didn't mean anything to me!" Like your guy now. All these guys probably spoke the truth, but it doesn't help a lot to know that you have been injured and disrespected for something that didn't even matter any. So if your guy does this, feel free to bop him in the head from me, because it shows a serious lack of respect and understanding to what you will be going through when his little game is out in the open.

Okay, it's past midnight, so my stuff is probably even more incoherent than normally. Apologies.
 
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