Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I've been with my INTJ partner for just over two years now and since probably 6 months into our relationship I noticed that each and every time I try to arrange to go out with friends (9/10 times with her also - and if not, she is always invited) she always finds something wrong with it, or a reason to be upset with me.

When this first started happening, (I am ENFP) I IMMEDIATELY felt extremely guilty about upsetting her or causing an argument, as I saw it at the time. At that point, I would typically go into "I'm such a bad GF" mode and feel intensely bad for ages. Each time though that it happened, she gave me a different reason for why it is inconvenient that I/we go, e.g. We haven't spent time alone together in a couple of weeks or that she's tired or as is now often the reason she gives me "We haven't been the way we usually are together in ages cos of the arguments. I just want to relax with you and chill out together".
Obviously, because of a) We literally fall out every single time I try to go out, and b) Because about a year ago for the first time ever (I was only just 18) I went out for the night in the pubs with my friends - it was a friend's 18th at the time - she had a problem with that too (she had a problem with that because she said that she was going to now be up all night worrying if I'm OK and she's got work tomorrow) - when from my point of view, I felt that I wasn't dragging her with me this time, it was on a night we weren't meeting up (so wasn't interfering with our time together, etc) so I thought that as she isn't going to be a social situation that she dislikes, the argument will be eliminated - nope. And it never is.
Because it literally works like this: I suggest going out + Asks her what she wants to do = massive argument that lasts hours and leaves us still feeling crap a day or so after, and that no matter what approach I take in making an arrangement with friends, e.g. arranging it for in the future/arranging it for later that day, arranging it for just myself/arranging it with her also, arranging it with one or two friends and her/arranging it with lots of friends and her..no matter how I approach this issue to avoid pissing her off, she gets pissed off.
As a result, intense frustration over the last two years has built up in me, to the point that I've seriously started questioning whether or not I want to continue this relationship. This needs to stop. I hate feeling a sense of ominous doom each time I'm asked by my friends if I'd like to meet up with them, I'm sick of the stress I have to go through when I ask her if she'd like to meet up with my friends, I'm sick of the arguments we have about it before going, that put me in such a crap mindset that it ends up partially ruining the meet-up. I also feel that this behaviour is manipulative - that she tries to indirectly make me choose to not go out by making it so damn uncomfortable for me to maintain a social life.

What I want to ask INTJs is:
Do you feel and act the same way as my GF? How do you handle social situations like these? Do you let your GF go alone if/when you don't want to go? Are you tolerant of her wanting to go out? Do you normally have arguments with her about this? Also, is there any way I can handle this? How do I keep her happy in this issue whilst still being able to have a social life - or as is now - the remains of one?

I'd also like to mention that I don't go out a lot. I'm 18 years old and go out with friends only once every few months. Also, I'm ENFP, if that helps.

Any help is very, VERY appreciated. I love her to bits and everything about our relationship is so perfect...except for this one, massive issue that is driving me crazy at this point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
73 Posts
I'm not an INTJ, but I'm married to one, so I can give you my personal perspective:

In my experience, this sort of matter is more individual/personal. My husband, for example, isn't very interested in social activities (let's just say he dislikes people, lol), but will make the occasional exception if he knows it's what I really want. Otherwise, he is more than happy for me to go-it-alone (I, like yourself, don't make a regular habit of this).

Does your girlfriend have a running theme/chief concern regarding you going out? If you're not sure, maybe it's time to ask her - perhaps it's an underlying insecurity that she isn't comfortable expressing outright, so she's being round-about? Sorry I couldn't be much help from the INTJ POV, but I hope I help to give you a rounded out picture when you receive more responses. =]
 
  • Like
Reactions: redorbluepill

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Otherwise, he is more than happy for me to go-it-alone (I, like yourself, don't make a regular habit of this).

Does your girlfriend have a running theme/chief concern regarding you going out? If you're not sure, maybe it's time to ask her - perhaps it's an underlying insecurity that she isn't comfortable expressing outright, so she's being round-about? Sorry I couldn't be much help from the INTJ POV, but I hope I help to give you a rounded out picture when you receive more responses. =]
Thank you so much for your reply : )

What you said in that first comment - that's exactly what I want from my girlfriend. I understand that she doesn't enjoy social situations, and I accept that. But I really feel and think that she doesn't respect my need for one at all. If she doesn't want to go out, that's fine, but I wish she'd be tolerant of me going out. And she isn't. Also, my GF makes hardly any effort in social situations, she literally looks like I've dragged her there (even though I make it clear to her that if she doesn't want to go, I respect that and it wouldn't be a problem). She also openly criticizes particular friends of mine, including when we're actually sitting there in a group with them (luckily, I don't think they've ever heard though), which obviously is something I extremely dislike (and that I fear is more manipulation from her part, as if she's trying to make them dislike her/us and therefore make them stop wanting to include me in meeting up - it sounds awful, but it's happened enough times now).

The next time I suggest going out/me going out, I'm going to ask her that. It's very hard getting her to actually acknowledge that this happens every time though, let alone get her to actually talk openly about why this stuff keeps happening.

Thank you, you've helped even without being an INTJ : )
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,795 Posts
This is an interesting discussion even if split between two threads. I see a lot of myself and my ex wife in this, she was a very outgoing person and resented that I did not enjoy social situations. I think this was part of what built up between us over time, I resented being drug out and left alone while she went to talk to her friends, and she resented me for always wanting to keep to myself. We never solved it even after being together almost 20 years, it actually got worse. We are still friends, but that part was always an irritant for both of us. Good luck, I hope that you guys can come to a compromise, but don't expect her to ever really be thrilled to go out to a party with you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Good luck, I hope that you guys can come to a compromise, but don't expect her to ever really be thrilled to go out to a party with you.
Thank you for telling me everything you're telling me. I've only just signed up to this forum, but it feels so good to finally be able to talk about all of this.

I just wanted to reiterate though that I don't expect to change her, nor do I want to. I love who she is, and I really do adore being with her. All I want to change is that I want her to let me have a life outside of her. I want her to let me go out when I want to. I hardly go out as it is, but on the few times I do go out, I want to do it unpunished. She has me to herself on all of my free days. I see her many evenings after work and college. She has me completely. And so when I try to see other people, I want to at least do it without having to be crucified by her.

Also, I'm not even totally convinced that she has a problem with the social life thing purely because she has to be bored by the situation. My reason for saying that is that on the times I have talked about wanting to look for a part-time job (I go to college) she was immediately and persistently (though not angrily) trying to almost persuade me out of it. I really do get a strong vibe from her that she doesn't want me to do anything that doesn't directly involve her.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
73 Posts
Thank you so much for your reply : )

Also, my GF makes hardly any effort in social situations, she literally looks like I've dragged her there (even though I make it clear to her that if she doesn't want to go, I respect that and it wouldn't be a problem). She also openly criticizes particular friends of mine, including when we're actually sitting there in a group with them (luckily, I don't think they've ever heard though), which obviously is something I extremely dislike (and that I fear is more manipulation from her part, as if she's trying to make them dislike her/us and therefore make them stop wanting to include me in meeting up - it sounds awful, but it's happened enough times now).
My husband also doesn't make much effort in a social environment, but again: he doesn't like people. Mostly he'll come if it's something that interests him and if it interests him, he's more likely to make an effort. Luckily he doesn't criticise people while out and about (most of the time, unless they are truly incompetent or stupid and then he just can't help it, lol). He can however complain about people in general (I hate people, they're so stupid, blah blah blah) afterwards, but he seems to be getting better at it. He seems to be more sensitive now to how I feel about it, as I have always been sensitive to how he feels about it. I guess his growth period in that department just came a bit late.

The next time I suggest going out/me going out, I'm going to ask her that. It's very hard getting her to actually acknowledge that this happens every time though, let alone get her to actually talk openly about why this stuff keeps happening.

Thank you, you've helped even without being an INTJ : )
You're more than welcome. I really hope that you find the right direction for yourself and your relationship. If she has an insecurity, and you think it's worth it, try and work through it. Don't stay in an unhealthy relationship though. You won't thank yourself later - you may end up feeling like you've lost a part of who you are. Best wishes. =]
 
  • Like
Reactions: redorbluepill

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
The longer I stay with her, the more I feel that, and fear, my life is going to consist of a) seeing her, b) Seeing only her, and c) Having only other things/people in my life that are unavoidable, e.g. work colleagues or family.
I feel that, in 10 years or so (Particularly when/if we move in together, and I'm no longer with people that remind me of life and the world and people and living) I am going to have only her, and nothing else. I fear that I'll eventually give up trying to have a social life, I'll have no real friends, I'll not see family often (as she's not into that really after), and my life will consist of coming back from work every evening, to her. Only her. Every day. Forever.
It scares the living fuck out of me. Because that isn't a life spent with two people where they are both enjoying life together and feeling free, happy, and fulfilled. That is imprisonment, being somewhere because I feel I have to be because I will be given shit if I don't. I want to spend time with her and only her because I want to, not because its the only thing I can do to avoid an argument. I don't want my life to be filled constantly with her AND everyone else. I want moments with my friends, and the majority of the time with her. But when it comes to what she wants and is trying to acheive, it has to be only with her - no one else, ever.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,795 Posts
You need to say those things to her, I would be as direct as possible if you want to try and save the relationship. Try to get an agreement of specifically what you want from her, she will likely respect that if her personality is like mine. I wanted my ex to spend more time with me than she would, with few friends I tend to get a little overly possessive of what I do have. I am a bit relieved now that I am no longer in that relationship though, it was very stressful for both of us.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
You're more than welcome. I really hope that you find the right direction for yourself and your relationship. If she has an insecurity, and you think it's worth it, try and work through it. Don't stay in an unhealthy relationship though. You won't thank yourself later - you may end up feeling like you've lost a part of who you are. Best wishes. =]
Thank you. I will definitively do that. I really feel as if this relationship is getting more and more unhealthy (a) I've started going out less and less, b) I feel more and more stressed initiating socializing with her each time, c) She is starting to react even more intensely in arguments, and d) For what is probably about a month now I have started feeling bitter towards her, and resentful, and to dislike our relationship. I hate that I feel like that. I love her, I have never had such a connection with anyone else before, and I can't put into words how much she completes me. So to feel resentful towards her feels bloody awful, and I never want to feel like that in a relationship with anyone.
I do feel already that I've lost a part of myself - and that I'm still losing a part of myself. I feel I'm slowly starting to lose my love of life and socializing, and that my enthusiasm and curiosity is burning out and I can't access who I am anymore. I'm definitively not staying in this relationship if I continue to feel like this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
You need to say those things to her, I would be as direct as possible if you want to try and save the relationship. Try to get an agreement of specifically what you want from her, she will likely respect that if her personality is like mine. I wanted my ex to spend more time with me than she would, with few friends I tend to get a little overly possessive of what I do have. I am a bit relieved now that I am no longer in that relationship though, it was very stressful for both of us.
Logically I know I must. The last time we had an argument about this was just before Christmas. For the first time ever I didn't hold back and went on a rant about more or less exactly what I've just said (apart from going as far as the imprisonment part). She immediately calmed down from her anger and we made up - but apart from the fact I said those things and was more open than before, it ended with the same thing as always. And there's no doubt in my mind it will happen again.

Do you think, as an INTJ, if I told her about the imprisonment-feeling and the rest of what I wrote in direct terms that that will help us? I'm just extremely uncomfortable with saying something that I feel will be very hurtful (I know that would hurt me a LOT if someone said that to me), especially if it is likely to just make her angry and want to give up our relationship or doesn't change anything at all.

I can understand what you put at the end. I think underneath the heartache, there'd be a big part of me that is relieved if we did split up - and from her side too. I'll try what you have suggested about explaining to her what I want on this issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
73 Posts
Do you think, as an INTJ, if I told her about the imprisonment-feeling and the rest of what I wrote in direct terms that that will help us? I'm just extremely uncomfortable with saying something that I feel will be very hurtful (I know that would hurt me a LOT if someone said that to me), especially if it is likely to just make her angry and want to give up our relationship or doesn't change anything at all.
I have, unfortunately, said things to my INTJ that would've ruined me inside if they were said to me. D'you know what? He didn't even bat an eyelid and I can tell it truly hasn't bothered him (ie: he's not trying to hide hurt, etc.). He just doesn't seem to think/feel in those terms, which can make discussions about problems harder for us. I talk from an emotional standpoint and he's just like, "Huh?" So definitely try and put it into direct, measurable (where possible) terms. =]
 
  • Like
Reactions: redorbluepill

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
I have, unfortunately, said things to my INTJ that would've ruined me inside if they were said to me. D'you know what? He didn't even bat an eyelid and I can tell it truly hasn't bothered him (ie: he's not trying to hide hurt, etc.). He just doesn't seem to think/feel in those terms, which can make discussions about problems harder for us. I talk from an emotional standpoint and he's just like, "Huh?" So definitely try and put it into direct, measurable (where possible) terms. =]
That suddenly makes it a hell of a lot easier to do that then, phew. My INTJ is a very strong INTJ, so I'm certain she'll react in a similar way to yours : ) Maybe she does genuinely underestimate how serious this is then, if she (as she operates in such a way) expects me to tell her with no inhibitions how I feel if there is a problem, and as I haven't, she thinks the problem is smaller than it is. I hope it is that way, as that I think could mean that we will be OK afterwards : )
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
73 Posts
That suddenly makes it a hell of a lot easier to do that then, phew. My INTJ is a very strong INTJ, so I'm certain she'll react in a similar way to yours : ) Maybe she does genuinely underestimate how serious this is then, if she (as she operates in such a way) expects me to tell her with no inhibitions how I feel if there is a problem, and as I haven't, she thinks the problem is smaller than it is. I hope it is that way, as that I think could mean that we will be OK afterwards : )
Just to clarify: that is not to say don't tread carefully! Your INTJ might be more emotional than mine. ;P

Edit: Also, if she has insecurities in the relationship, it might make her reaction quite different, too. Just do what feels right, but remember that she's a thinker. Yup. Hope you figure it out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: redorbluepill

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,795 Posts
Don't confuse lack of a reaction with no emotion. I often have pretty extreme emotions but pride myself on not showing them, I suspect that is true with many of us. The social issue is also not necessarily because I don't care about others, I think it is more just that I hate small talk and it feels like a waste of time. I am capable of going immediately into very deep discussions though. I think your best bet is to be as blunt as possible, but use I language not you language (I need this, not you don't do this). I don't think she realizes how serious of an issue this is for you. Staying happy with yourself is the best thing you can do for any partner, denying yourself something so core to who you are over and over will just cause resentment to build up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
73 Posts
Don't confuse lack of a reaction with no emotion. I often have pretty extreme emotions but pride myself on not showing them, I suspect that is true with many of us. The social issue is also not necessarily because I don't care about others, I think it is more just that I hate small talk and it feels like a waste of time.
Like I said to OP, my example was highly individualistic.

I think your best bet is to be as blunt as possible, but use I language not you language (I need this, not you don't do this). I don't think she realizes how serious of an issue this is for you.
That. Best way right there and put into words just right.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,328 Posts
Do you think, as an INTJ, if I told her about the imprisonment-feeling and the rest of what I wrote in direct terms that that will help us? I'm just extremely uncomfortable with saying something that I feel will be very hurtful (I know that would hurt me a LOT if someone said that to me), especially if it is likely to just make her angry and want to give up our relationship or doesn't change anything at all.

I can understand what you put at the end. I think underneath the heartache, there'd be a big part of me that is relieved if we did split up - and from her side too. I'll try what you have suggested about explaining to her what I want on this issue.
Hi. INTJ.

Do tell her you're feeling imprisoned and you're developing a Pavlovian-conditioning panic attack when you want to see your friends. Tell her that you're thinking this isn't going to work, because you're miserable. Maybe, as MissSith said, your INTJ won't bat an eyelid. Maybe it will hurt her. But she's hurting you, and you have the right to defend yourself.

Personally, I think you're entirely within your rights to go out with your friends, without her if she doesn't want to come. From what you've said, it sounds to me like your INTJ wants things to be very routine, because it gives a sense of control. Predictability can be nice. I can sympathize with that -- I used to be very habit-driven. But she doesn't have the right to control you through nit-picking and harassment.

I hope it works out. Or that you can break up as amicably as possible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
311 Posts
she might feel envious of the people you are going out with because she knows she can't offer you the extraverted fun they can, and the appeal that your friends have as extraverts might be making her worry that you'll leave her for one of them
just a little idea.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Just to clarify: that is not to say don't tread carefully! Your INTJ might be more emotional than mine. ;P

Edit: Also, if she has insecurities in the relationship, it might make her reaction quite different, too. Just do what feels right, but remember that she's a thinker. Yup. Hope you figure it out.
Thank you, I'll definitively tread carefully then. I think I might adapt to however she is responding, and hopefully it'll be OK. I might say as well that I'm sure she can't enjoy our relationship being like this either, and that if this can't be sorted out maybe we are not right for each other (I don't want to say that, but I think she should know that that is how I am feeling so we do have one last chance to change things).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Don't confuse lack of a reaction with no emotion. I often have pretty extreme emotions but pride myself on not showing them, I suspect that is true with many of us. The social issue is also not necessarily because I don't care about others, I think it is more just that I hate small talk and it feels like a waste of time. I am capable of going immediately into very deep discussions though. I think your best bet is to be as blunt as possible, but use I language not you language (I need this, not you don't do this). I don't think she realizes how serious of an issue this is for you. Staying happy with yourself is the best thing you can do for any partner, denying yourself something so core to who you are over and over will just cause resentment to build up.
I'll keep all of that in mind. I think she has quite intense emotions (she rarely reacts in a calm un-angry way with these arguments (and these are the only ones we have), and she does get very angry, so I think she's either going to be very furious or she's going to take a more serious approach and focus on what we need to do to sort it out. And I don't know what scenario it's going to be, because I haven't told her that this is making me reconsider our relationship before (though I've told her how this is affecting me and making me feel). I agree completely with the "I" language too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Do tell her you're feeling imprisoned and you're developing a Pavlovian-conditioning panic attack when you want to see your friends.

Unfortunately, I've already tried this several times with her : ( She has known for a long time now that whenever someone asks me if I want to meet up with them I immediately feel uncomfortable knowing she's going to get pissed off, and I've also told her that I feel awful bringing up social plans or ideas with her. She always says she doesn't want me to feel like that (she has usually calmed down at this point), but then she can't genuinely surely because it never changes anything. It feels like lip-service now. I used to feel in the beginning that she finally understands that I need to have a social life and that she'll stop, but now I know damn well that it's going to happen again. It's just a case of waiting for the next social event to arise.

Personally, I think you're entirely within your rights to go out with your friends, without her if she doesn't want to come. From what you've said, it sounds to me like your INTJ wants things to be very routine, because it gives a sense of control. Predictability can be nice. I can sympathize with that -- I used to be very habit-driven. But she doesn't have the right to control you through nit-picking and harassment.

I think she definitively likes the routine part. She's said to me before numerous times that she dislikes surprises or changes to plans - even if how the plan is changed isn't a problem at all. I used to (especially when I discovered she is an INTJ) try to make an effort to respect that when it came to socialising - I am an extravert and my way of planning to socialize before meeting her was to plan a day or two before - so I instead started to plan things for a week or two weeks in advance, thinking maybe that would erase the problem. It seems I get the same kind of anger and frustration from her however I try to arrange something. And I definitively feel that this is controlling behaviour. There must be a purpose in her behaviour? Whether conscious or otherwise? What is she trying to acheive? (That's something I'm going to ask her, and I hope this is one of the questions she doesn't try to avoid this time).

I hope it works out. Or that you can break up as amicably as possible.
Thanks.
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top