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Discussion Starter #1
Main Questions

1. What drives you in life? What do you look for?
Creation, beauty, physical sensation, pleasures, freedom, solitude.

2. What do you hope to accomplish in your life?
I hope to find the freedom and power to create and flow as well as to really take in that which surrounds me to the fullest. To be able to solve problems effectively and influence people positively with my physical movements and creations.

3. What do you hope to avoid doing or being? What values are important to you?
I really hope to avoid being dependent on others and to be enslaved. I value beauty, freedom, power, pleasure, the Earth, and health.

4. What are your biggest fears (not including phobias)? Why?
Being dependent and controlled, can't get alone time to feel free and inspired. Can't bring creative ideas into reality. Dealing with people who are controlling and criticizing, not open minded enough to accept my way of living and see the value in it. Being unable to create and do, very unfufilling.

5. How do you want others to see you? How do you see yourself?
Compassionate eccentric doer who works magic when let free to go about on his own. Someone to love, hug, and cuddle. Lol

6. What makes you feel your best? What makes you feel your worst?
I feel amazing when I've done something beautiful and challenging, my worst when I'm yelled at for messing up accidentally or insulted.

7. Describe how you experience each of: a) anger; b) shame; c) anxiety.
Internal fire growing and spreading, challenging me to do something to change the physical world. Completely useless and hopeless, might as well die. Extremely obsessive about potential future occurrences, focused on possibilities of messing up and getting called out on doing something stupid.

8. Describe how you respond to each of: a) stress; b) unexpected change; c) conflict.
Actively attempting to release energy, loud music, physical activity, intense problem solving to align my life with values, doing or abandoning responsibilities based on alignment with values, cold beer and beauty. Anxiety, analysis and value checking, escapism or excitement. Shutdown, internalize, leave and disapear and then stress reduce.

9. Describe your orientation to: a) authority; b) power. How do you respond to these?
Cannot stand being controlled, anarchistic egalitarian, must escape unless our values our the same. Impressed by power, wish to acquire to create freedom and beauty, drastically avoid when attacked.

10. What is your overall outlook on life and humanity?
Humanity in the ideal is beautiful, but everyone is so misled or values things so different from mine that we don't relate. People are to inactive, don't create and do in response to their analysis and discussion. I need to find my own space to do as I please.

Optional Questions

11. Discuss an event that has impacted your life significantly; more importantly, how you responded to it.
Lived on my own by myself during college, was much more creative and unrestricted, more mature and took care of things better. Living with my parents atm, not so great...:/

12. Comment on your relationship with trust.
Difficult because I feel misunderstood by people, trust myself very much so, believe that I can always find a way, solve a problem.

13. List some of the traits you: a) like; b) dislike most about yourself.
Very creative and expressive when alone, very censored around others. Very loving when alone, very much frozen around others. Not driven unless I see the practical application of an activity. Very practical and can make things happen.

14. What do you see or notice in others that most people don't?
If they are essentially good and honest, if they are kindred spirits, if they are beautiful in the way they look, move, or behave. If they are creative and practical.

15. If a stranger insults you, how do you respond/feel? What if they compliment you?
I get pissed off internally and hate them for a long time, will avoid and not assist them again. Depending on how truely they do so, I will either believe them and feel good around them and about myself or I will think they are just trying to be nice and think they are dumb for not being honest.

16. What's something you are: a) thankful you have; b) wish you could have? Why?
I'm thankful I have a decent family that takes care of me, I wish I could have financial independence and thus more freedom to do what I value.

Please offer up any insights you may have about my type, I hope my responses help a bit, I thought I was a 5w6 for awhile, maybe a 4w5...not sure though.

Thanks :happy:
 

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I'll have to cast a vote for 9 as well...I can easily see 4w5 as the heart and 5w4 as the head; or possibly 7w8 for the head.

I don't have a lot of time now, but I'll try to give you a more detailed analysis within 24 hours.
 

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sure thing, the bolded parts are 7

1. What drives you in life? What do you look for?
Creation, beauty, physical sensation, pleasures, freedom, solitude.

2. What do you hope to accomplish in your life?
I hope to find the freedom and power to create and flow as well as to really take in that which surrounds me to the fullest. To be able to solve problems effectively and influence people positively with my physical movements and creations.

3. What do you hope to avoid doing or being? What values are important to you?
I really hope to avoid being dependent on others and to be enslaved. I value beauty, freedom, power, pleasure, the Earth, and health.

4. What are your biggest fears (not including phobias)? Why?
Being dependent and controlled, can't get alone time to feel free and inspired. Can't bring creative ideas into reality. Dealing with people who are controlling and criticizing, not open minded enough to accept my way of living and see the value in it. Being unable to create and do, very unfufilling.

5. How do you want others to see you? How do you see yourself?
Compassionate eccentric doer who works magic when let free to go about on his own. Someone to love, hug, and cuddle. Lol

6. What makes you feel your best? What makes you feel your worst?
I feel amazing when I've done something beautiful and challenging, my worst when I'm yelled at for messing up accidentally or insulted.

7. Describe how you experience each of: a) anger; b) shame; c) anxiety.
Internal fire growing and spreading, challenging me to do something to change the physical world. Completely useless and hopeless, might as well die. Extremely obsessive about potential future occurrences, focused on possibilities of messing up and getting called out on doing something stupid.

8. Describe how you respond to each of: a) stress; b) unexpected change; c) conflict.
Actively attempting to release energy, loud music, physical activity, intense problem solving to align my life with values, doing or abandoning responsibilities based on alignment with values, cold beer and beauty. Anxiety, analysis and value checking, escapism or excitement. Shutdown, internalize, leave and disapear and then stress reduce.

9. Describe your orientation to: a) authority; b) power. How do you respond to these?
Cannot stand being controlled, anarchistic egalitarian, must escape unless our values our the same. Impressed by power, wish to acquire to create freedom and beauty, drastically avoid when attacked.

10. What is your overall outlook on life and humanity?
Humanity in the ideal is beautiful, but everyone is so misled or values things so different from mine that we don't relate. People are to inactive, don't create and do in response to their analysis and discussion. I need to find my own space to do as I please.

Optional Questions

11. Discuss an event that has impacted your life significantly; more importantly, how you responded to it.
Lived on my own by myself during college, was much more creative and unrestricted, more mature and took care of things better. Living with my parents atm, not so great...:/

12. Comment on your relationship with trust.
Difficult because I feel misunderstood by people, trust myself very much so, believe that I can always find a way, solve a problem.

13. List some of the traits you: a) like; b) dislike most about yourself.
Very creative and expressive when alone, very censored around others. Very loving when alone, very much frozen around others. Not driven unless I see the practical application of an activity. Very practical and can make things happen.

14. What do you see or notice in others that most people don't?
If they are essentially good and honest, if they are kindred spirits, if they are beautiful in the way they look, move, or behave. If they are creative and practical.

15. If a stranger insults you, how do you respond/feel? What if they compliment you?
I get pissed off internally and hate them for a long time, will avoid and not assist them again. Depending on how truely they do so, I will either believe them and feel good around them and about myself or I will think they are just trying to be nice and think they are dumb for not being honest.

16. What's something you are: a) thankful you have; b) wish you could have? Why?
I'm thankful I have a decent family that takes care of me, I wish I could have financial independence and thus more freedom to do what I value.

Please offer up any insights you may have about my type, I hope my responses help a bit, I thought I was a 5w6 for awhile, maybe a 4w5...not sure though.

Thanks
ie, about half of your post. your post screams desire for freedom, escape, adventure, beauty, excitement and action. 7 integrates to 5, so I think you are a very healthy 7
 

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Discussion Starter #8
"When moving in their Direction of Disintegration (stress), detached Fives suddenly become hyperactive and scattered at Seven."

I did not feel healthy at all when I posted this...
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Important Parts in BOLD.

1. What drives you in life? What do you look for?
Creation, beauty, physical sensation, pleasures, freedom, solitude.

2. What do you hope to accomplish in your life?
I hope to find the freedom and power to create and flow as well as to really take in that which surrounds me to the fullest. To be able to solve problems effectively and influence people positively with my physical movements and creations.

3. What do you hope to avoid doing or being? What values are important to you?
I really hope to avoid being dependent on others and to be enslaved. I value beauty, freedom, power, pleasure, the Earth, and health.

4. What are your biggest fears (not including phobias)? Why?
Being dependent and controlled, can't get alone time to feel free and inspired. Can't bring creative ideas into reality. Dealing with people who are controlling and criticizing, not open minded enough to accept my way of living and see the value in it. Being unable to create and do, very unfufilling.

5. How do you want others to see you? How do you see yourself?
Compassionate eccentric doer who works magic when let free to go about on his own. Someone to love, hug, and cuddle. Lol

6. What makes you feel your best? What makes you feel your worst?
I feel amazing when I've done something beautiful and challenging, my worst when I'm yelled at for messing up accidentally or insulted.

7. Describe how you experience each of: a) anger; b) shame; c) anxiety.
Internal fire growing and spreading, challenging me to do something to change the physical world. Completely useless and hopeless, might as well die. Extremely obsessive about potential future occurrences, focused on possibilities of messing up and getting called out on doing something stupid.

8. Describe how you respond to each of: a) stress; b) unexpected change; c) conflict.
Actively attempting to release energy, loud music, physical activity, intense problem solving to align my life with values, doing or abandoning responsibilities based on alignment with values, cold beer and beauty. Anxiety, analysis and value checking, escapism or excitement. Shutdown, internalize, leave and disappear and then stress reduce.

9. Describe your orientation to: a) authority; b) power. How do you respond to these?
Cannot stand being controlled, anarchistic egalitarian, must escape unless our values our the same. Impressed by power, wish to acquire to create freedom and beauty, drastically avoid when attacked.

10. What is your overall outlook on life and humanity?
Humanity in the ideal is beautiful, but everyone is so misled or values things so different from mine that we don't relate. People are to inactive, don't create and do in response to their analysis and discussion. I need to find my own space to do as I please.

Optional Questions

11. Discuss an event that has impacted your life significantly; more importantly, how you responded to it.
Lived on my own by myself during college, was much more creative and unrestricted, more mature and took care of things better. Living with my parents atm, not so great...:/

12. Comment on your relationship with trust.
Difficult because I feel misunderstood by people, trust myself very much so, believe that I can always find a way, solve a problem.

13. List some of the traits you: a) like; b) dislike most about yourself.
Very creative and expressive when alone, very censored around others. Very loving when alone, very much frozen around others. Not driven unless I see the practical application of an activity. Very practical and can make things happen.

14. What do you see or notice in others that most people don't?
If they are essentially good and honest, if they are kindred spirits, if they are beautiful in the way they look, move, or behave. If they are creative and practical.

15. If a stranger insults you, how do you respond/feel? What if they compliment you?
I get pissed off internally and hate them for a long time, will avoid and not assist them again. Depending on how truely they do so, I will either believe them and feel good around them and about myself or I will think they are just trying to be nice and think they are dumb for not being honest.

16. What's something you are: a) thankful you have; b) wish you could have? Why?
I'm thankful I have a decent family that takes care of me, I wish I could have financial independence and thus more freedom to do what I value.

Ugh...I keep changing the way I describe myself it seems. I feel pretty healthy today though...I think the bold parts are the most important.
 

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5w6 could explain why you thought you were Ti-dom.
 

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I fancy you a 9w8, @Benja. (and not just because your picture is a tree! I promise!)
It might be worth doing a little more research-- 9s and 5s can look very similar (quiet, independent, intuitive, defensive of self and personal space). I see Ni all over this. It's very developed for you, clearly-- I think that might be throwing you off a little since you don't fit the stereotypes of ISFP 9s. Check out these threads.

http://personalitycafe.com/type-9-f...s-streams-new-descriptions-9w8-stackings.html
http://personalitycafe.com/type-9-f...bliss-streams-descriptions-9w1-stackings.html
http://personalitycafe.com/type-9-f...stream-conscious-venting-thread-nines-30.html (that's at a random spot. no significance in the page number)

It's easy to be rough handed typing others on this site-- my apologies if that's what I've done here. You've got to know for you. If you need to talk through it, it might be useful to approach someone you know in real-life who is interested in/ might be interested in enneagram theory. I found that to be very helpful-- people are more careful with you when they can look you in the eye, you know? :p
 

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Discussion Starter #13
It's interesting how everyone so far has seen their own type in me.

What one focuses on, one finds...

I'm still undecided, though @davisk that 9w8 sp/sx had some good parts in it.
Specifically this "sense for the harmony between themselves and nature /animals, even wild animals. They have a natural affinity for the wilderness and also have the can-do attitude to chart a course towards a more simple lifestyle."
I just cannot relate to going along with others to keep the peace or being trusting though...

I feel like a very pragmatic 5?
 

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How Fives Fit in the Triad by Susan Reynolds

Fives are one of three types in the head-centered, thinking, or fear-based triad, which means they rely on their heads rather than their hearts or their physical bodies to interpret the world. Fives are most comfortable in the world of ideas and learned at an early age to use their intellectual abilities to make sense of what was happening to and around them. Like the other types (Six and Seven) of the thinking triad, Fives feel threatened when fearful but deal with it by withdrawing or compartmentalizing the fear. Fives rely on their ability to analyze and rethink situations and use their ability to counteract fear by accumulating enough information to get a grip on the situation, or at least to appear smarter than everyone else on the subject.

Fives are the introverted point in the thinking triad, and they exemplify this by withdrawing from whatever or whomever makes them feel afraid. Whenever a normally reclusive Five feels anxious, she will pull back into her shell, retreat to a private space, and analyze what went wrong so that she can either reorder her universe or contemplate a solution. Fives retract from anxiety by seeking solitude.

Fives need orderly, logical lives and feel most secure when they build a substantial base of knowledge. Because Fives tend to be highly intelligent, introverted loners, they are often attracted to the sciences or fields where they can retreat to a research lab or library for hours, days, or preferably weeks at a time. As introverts who prefer the intellectual realm, they strongly prefer learning about life from books over learning about life by becoming involved in messy emotional relationships. In relationships, Fives often appear withdrawn and disinterested when all they really want is a little space to be the outstanding thinkers and observers they are.
 

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What It's Like to Love a Five by Susan Reynolds

Fives are often brilliant, inventive thinkers and scholars who gravitate toward science, math, or some other intellectually challenging profession that accommodates solitude and utilizes their overactive brains. Their quiet, reserved, and centered countenance often makes them very attractive, but Fives can be powerhouses in the intellectual realm and stunted in the emotional realm. They are reluctant to form relationships and are not very good at successfully maintaining them. Fives would rather intellectualize and think through problems than get down to the nitty-gritty, messy emotions involved and battle it out. Fives may also spend so much time reading and improving their knowledge base that they tend to neglect relationships.

Intimacy feels risky to Fives, who will only cautiously enter relationships in which they are permitted sufficient time alone, independence, and autonomy. Anyone who makes demands will be kept at arm's length or avoided altogether. Generally, they choose relationships that they can wrap their mind around and justify intellectually — such as someone who meets some of their physical needs but does not require a deep emotional engagement. They don't like feeling strong emotions, and if spooked they will cower from a blossoming romance or commitment and will run away from conflict. When they are hurt, rather than express their feelings, they retreat to sort it out intellectually and will too easily chalk it up to poor communication.

What you'll love about Fives:

They can absolutely dazzle you with their brilliance and their commitment to knowledge.

They have a strong, quiet center that implies exceptional wisdom and confidence.

They are often unusually rooted, structured, and serene.

What you see is what you get; there are few surprises.

They can be real homebodies and make few demands on your time.

They typically have a storehouse of knowledge, are usually intellectually invigorating, and can participate in multilayered conversations.

They can be witty and entertaining, like a normally shy and reclusive Johnny Carson when the camera is switched on.

What will drive you crazy about Fives:

They would rather bury their heads in a book than talk, especially when you're upset.

They may lord their intelligence over you, constantly correct you, or imply that you are dumb.

They may think they know better than you or anyone else.

They often become very fixed in the way they think and live life.

They typically don't like social occasions and rarely want to do anything adventurous.

They may suffer from a deeply ingrained fear of never having enough and can be miserly with money and affection.

Their fantasy life can be more real to them than their life with you.

They can demand so much privacy that you will feel neglected or even shut out.

Self-actualized Fives are also slow to connect but in a healthy way. When they decide on someone, they make long-term commitments and remain faithful and trustworthy. They may fall short when it comes to being verbally or physically expressive, but they show their undying affection and appreciation in quiet ways.
 

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The Process of Individuation or Self-Actualization by Susan Reynolds

According to Jung, individuation occurs when you successfully separate your personality from that of your parents and become an integrated personality — becoming what or who you were born to be, what you were before you formed an ego or persona, or suppressed negative behaviors in your shadow. The individuation process is a lifelong, ongoing process or quest. Through therapy or active self-development using introspection and conscious choice, you can work toward the unveiling of your shadow, the unraveling of your persona, and the integration of your psyche.

Fives, especially with a Four wing, are often philosophers, theologians, or psychologists who turn their intellectually oriented, rational observation of human behavior into coherent theories. Often, they not only make astute observations, they discard antiquated theories and create a new order or system of their own. The Buddha is an example of a fully self-actualized Five, and Sigmund Freud is an example of an ego-driven Five.
Basically, when merging aspects of Jungian theory with Enneagram theory, one could presuppose that when things in your life are going really well, you are ripe for expansion and are more likely to progress toward individuation and self-actualization by adopting behaviors that support forward movement. On the other hand, when you feel insecure or are under severe stress, you are more likely to regress from the goal of individuation and self-actualization by adopting behaviors that allow you to cope but that do not necessarily help you progress toward health. Again, in some instances, you may uncover traits inherent in your stress point that help you grow during times of extreme stress, e.g., you might both cope and progress toward health by discovering determination, integrity, or industry in your stress point.


How Fives Progress

Fives progress toward Eight, and when it's working well, Eight energy lights a fire, motivating fearful Fives to actually do something to improve their lives. Often, when feeling the Eight's confidence and physicality, they actually inhabit their bodies and not only surrender to an urge to congregate with others but will risk intimacy. Instead of withdrawing, they socialize, and as they do they grow more comfortable being visible.

They also get more in touch with all of their feelings, including the dreaded fear. Once they learn that fear is part of being human and that they can express it without damaging anyone or looking foolish, they will often acknowledge rather than repress it. Unleashing the energy behind repressed fear helps Fives feel confident and assertive, even to the point of being willing to take on leadership roles.

When Fives adopt positive behaviors from Seven, they come out of their reclusive shells and venture into the outer world. Seven energy helps them loosen their more typical inhibitions and express an atypical playful side, which translates into pleasurable socializing and connecting with others on a more intimate level than a guarded Five would usually achieve.

How Fives Regress

Fives regress toward Seven, which manages to confuse them further, meaning Fives lose their grip on order. They become restless, insatiable, and lose their ability to focus. They become so distracted that they find it difficult to finish what they start. They also lose their patience more quickly and lose control of their feelings in general. They find justifications for being self-absorbed and feeling as if they are superior to other lesser beings. They dominate conversations and may be both flippant and disrespectful. They find even more reasons to distract themselves by overthinking or by fantasizing about how it could be instead of how it is.

If reclusive Fives adopt behaviors from the low side of Eight, they may develop a cold ruthlessness and may use their love for isolation, coupled with a desire for revenge, as a way to plot revenge from a distance — similar to the infamous Unabomber, Ted Kaczynski, who went after his victims in an orderly manner and who wrote volumes about his thoughts on the state of the world.
 

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It's interesting how everyone so far has seen their own type in me.

I just cannot relate to going along with others to keep the peace or being trusting though...

I feel like a very pragmatic 5?
EEK! I did not mean to do that. I saw the gigantic bolded 'USELESS' and 'freedom' and my mind went right to nine. But, that could be any of the withdrawn types. And, if you don't go with the flow for the sake of harmony, then you are not a nine, my friend! My apologies, sir.
I know nothing about E5 so I'm leaving you now. Good luck!

You've probably run across this already, but I found the 9 version of this to be quite helpful if you feel you need some more visual confirmation.
 

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I agree, you sound like an ISFP based on your words here.

I'll reaffirm what I said before--I can see you being a 9 (of either wing). You seem to be more "other" oriented than I would attribute to most 5s, in your capacity to express love and your dislike of others' criticisms. You also seem to be attuned to the beauty and unity of the universe--a sort of creativity that 9s possess. Your outlook on humanity seems to give them lots of credit, a quality not always associated with 5s. ISFP is often, though certainly not always, associated with E9, so keep an open mind towards that.

I could almost equally see you as a 5w4. You are interested in competence and power; when you are under stress, you tend to rely on escapism. These are 5 strategies, and they combine with an aesthetic sense and a feeling of wonder towards the universe which is generally associated with 5w4 rather than 5w6.

There is indeed a 7-quality to your writing; don't rule it out immediately. See if it applies to you in any way. (Some of this may admittedly be your freedom-loving SP qualities.)

If you have not done so, I recommend you examine the following standard website and try to determine how each may be a part of you.
the enneagram ...info from the underground

Nines and 5s can look a lot alike, so definitely do your research. A love of solitude can apply to either. You could be a 9 with a 5-fix, or vice versa. I am not sure about your heart fix...it depends largely on what core type you decide upon. Four is the most obvious, but you have a clear sense of warm-hearted compassion, which you wish for others to see (2), and seem to take great pride in your ability to remain competent (3).

Take everything we say with a grain of salt and do your own research. Determine which pattern best fits you. The final call is yours.

PS--I'd tentatively place your instinctual stacking at sp/sx, although you should research and determine that on your own.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hmm, 5w6 9w1 3w4 sp/sx seems like a good fit.

5-9-3: these Fives are naturally diplomatic, peaceful and somewhat charismatic. They care about harmony and balance and are a bit anxious of people’s rejection and disapproval. Very sentient and tactful, they know how to reach their objectives without causing much fuss around them – they go with the flow and adapt to people and situations in a facile manner. They’re the type of people that others don’t see coming, skillfully speculating opportunities to their advantage while keeping a low profile.
typical subtypes: self-preserving, social, 5w6
similar tritypes: 5-3-9, 9-5-3
flavours: tactful, well-mannered, collected and adaptable
@holyrockthrower That site is really good, thanks. :)


Here's what I relate very well to with 5:
They have busy minds, are endlessly curious, observant, perceptive and frequently intellectually provocative.

Areas of expertise.

can be recognized by their need for privacy, their focus on competency.

idiosyncratic view of the world. This they tend to reveal in bits and pieces, often by way of quips or strategically placed one-liners.

Others in the Five's life often recognize, if only on an intuitive level, that some part of the Five is not quite present. It is that part which Fives reserve for themselves and perhaps share with a very few others. For most Fives, a great deal is kept in reserve. So, while it is true that not all Fives are "intellectuals," all of them share certain basic markers. In particular, all Fives utilize or over-utilize their intellects as their chief means of negotiating life.

uncomfortable in the social realm. Part of this stems from the Five's eccentricity, which in turn stems from the fact that Fives spend so much time in the realm of thought.

Fives tend to be sensitive.

To compensate for their sensitivity, Fives sometimes adopt an attitude of careless indifference.

Fives are usually somewhat restrained when it comes to emotional expression, but often have stronger feelings than they let on. (Introverted Feeling?)

Fives are afraid of being emotionally vulnerable; they lack a certain resilience in this regard and have a pervasive sense of distrust when it comes to expressing themselves to others, who "just don't understand."

Fives don't tend to think of themselves as being unemotional and are often surprised when they realize just what a disjunct there is between their own perception of themselves and the perceptions that others have of them. This frequently exacerbates the Five's feelings of alienation and adds to their sense that human relationships are somehow essentially flawed.

They sometimes deal with this by developing a minimalistic lifestyle in which they make few demands on others in exchange for others making few demands on them.

Fives tend to withhold themselves from others, from emotional involvement and sometimes from life itself. There are many Fives who have accumulated a vast wealth of knowledge, which they never share with anyone.



I relate so much to 5, I'm not a highly intellectual scientist 5 though, more of a thinking and very pragmatic 5 which may show through the 9'ness and 3'ness.

Am I missing anything important?
Any objections?

:unsure:

Side note: there is simply no way I'm a seven. I'm not upbeat, not outgoing, not of high opinion of myself, not future oriented, not restless, etc etc ect...7 is essentially my opposite.
 

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Those are all key descriptors of type 5. if that's what you relate to strongly, then i think you can settle on type 5.

Having really strong Fi like you do is probably why you don't have such pointy edges, which is probably what's making people think 9.

I got a little frustrated for a while, because I had many people saying I was type 9 because I have manners and I'm not a pot-stirrer. Sometimes it seems like nobody thinks anyone is a 5 or an 8. They just say you're a 9 or a 6/3.

Ultimately you know yourself best. If you relate to 5 the most, then you're probably a 5.
 
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