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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Love & Savagery

Love and Savagery is a story of passion, fate, and the consequences of the two. In 1968, Newfoundland geologist and poet, Michael McCarthy, travels to Ireland, Ballyvaughan to examine the "Burren" a geological wonder. There he meets Cathleen, a beautiful woman who captures his heart, but because of the path she chose when she was young she cannot allow him to capture hers.

My point in posting scenes from this movie, is that I was captivated by this Michael character, from the very first conversation – about the sensuality of rocks. His strong silent type of attitude, yet passionate from within - especially when he writes poetry for his love Cathleen. The love affair seems against all odds, but he still never gives up.

He even endangers his life to be around his lady love. Something about this man is so fictional INFJ (based on some of what I have learned on PerC), especially expressed in the two poems. I had to post the poems, but I didn’t want to leave out the other scenes, as they bring meaning.

INFJs I hope you like this. Please do not continue to read if you don’t want to know what happens in the movie. But it is a Canadian movie, and not exactly a ‘guy’ movie or a ‘popular’ movie. So I imagine not many of you will see it soon. I actually wanted to post this in the Thread ‘Thoughts on INFJ men’ but I did not want to take away from that thread with too many posts about this movie. So I started this new Thread.

I won’t say too much, but I was deeply moved by this movie, as I am on a spiritual path, and yet unsure how to share my passion with another. I contemplate what it will be like to actually find love with an INFJ, or someone, who will be worth my while and somehow help me work out the kinks on my journey [I mean this literally too! hehehe] I hope you all like what I’ve posted...

3,245 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
First conversation between Cathleen and Michael

Picture a dimly lit Irish pub and a discussion in Irish accent...

What interests you then? [Kathleen asks Michael]

Rocks...A bit of writing I suppose...

Ok...What do you write?


Really [Kathleen is now intrigued]

Why poetry?

Because poetry has a texture;
You know life has a texture.
Poetry has a physical and spiritual landscape
Rocks have a texture too, and rocks have an amazing history...A story to tell.
They have a sensuality...

Are you as passionate about everything else? [Kathleen pauses, her eyes now glazed and alive]

Passion is a state of grace...Almost holy if you like... [Michael’s eyes now sparkle]

There are not many things truly holy, Michael, be careful how you use that word.
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Over a cup of tea, by the fire, Michael presents Cathleen with the poem he wrote for her...

What is that? Kathleen asks.

Oh no, don’t worry, it is a poem.

And one with great irony, due to what you have told me. [He hands her the poem]

You read it...A poem is like a Psalm, it should be heard. [Hands back to poem to him]

Michael reads the poem he wrote for Cathleen:

If she were blinded by rebellious light
Who would fix her hair and place entries in her dairy?
Who would be dutiful
And abandon whatever made them comfortable only to read her
And smooth her reluctant hands
He needed to imagine her helpless
Without her sought after judicial strength
Only then he would be sure of his place
His voice would become a religion
And she would reunite her mythology
By leaning closer to his chest
Leaning closer to his heroic hunger
He pleads with her
Listen closely...
These hearts that open and close so carefully
Are not meant for loving exercise
They fit so few of us...

That’s beautiful, Michael.

Keep it, it’s yours.

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Cathleen and Michael ponder their future together, by the sea on a blustery day...

What are we doing here Cathleen?

We are just having a walk [Cathleen says innocently]
A bit of fresh air is good for us...So tell me more about rocks?

I’m sick of talking about rocks! I don’t want to talk anymore about rocks for the first time in my life, I don’t want to talk about rocks! [Michael now expresses himself passionately, with emotional eyes]
Look, I need to know if you feel the same way that I do. I need to know if you can’t sleep; If you feel your heart is going to burst out of your chest like mine does every time you walk into the room.

I don’t know what I feel, Michael...I’m so confused. I cannot hold down my food...YES, I guess I feel all that too. [Tears in her eyes]
But it’s not the same for me Michael [referring to her spiritual path]. I just can’t let go like you. *Sighs*
I just can’t...

[Michael and Cathleen turn their eyes away from each other]

They quietly watch the waves rolling in; the wind whips around them as the storm of destiny arrives...
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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
To protect Cathleen, the Irishmen of her family continue to physically beat Michael threatening him to leave town, and leave her alone, so that she can pursue her chosen spiritual path, without the distraction he represents...

You have to leave now Michael [Cathleen begs]


Michael, I am begging you to go home. If you honestly feel for me as you say you do, then you know you have to go home.

Come with me, says Michael.


Come to Newfoundland (Canada)...Marry me.

Oh Michael [Kisses his forehead]

Or we can get married here. I’ll do whatever you want. I’ll do whatever you want. I’ll go to mass...I don’t care...I’ve never been so sure of anything in my life.

Just as I am, Michael [Cathleen pauses, pensively]

Sure about God?


Do you love him?

Yes I do.

Do you love him, more than you love me?

You’re hurting me Michael.

Answer my question!

[Cathleen gets up, and leaves quietly closing the door behind her]
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Cathleen and her superior Nun who guides her pray together in this scene...

Dear precious Lord
We beseech you in all thy wisdom and glory.
Show Cathleen the true path to your heart.
Let her feel the glory of your love.
And the warmth of your beauty.
In the name of the father, the sun, and the holy ghost, Amen [They both do the sign on the cross]

Do you understand lust? [Nun knowingly asks Cathleen]


Well so do I...Physical attraction does not go away, even at my age.
Lust lingers for a long time.

Did you consummate your relationship, when you were on the Island? [Nun questions Cathleen]

No, of course not.

I don’t think it’s lust, Sister.

Call it what you like. It is still an aching in the body...All the body...Not just your heart.
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Michael in the foyer of the monastery speaks to the Head Nun, demanding to see Cathleen before he leaves...

I need to see Cathleen O’connell!

I’m afraid that isn’t possible

Why not!

Because of her specific instructions in her not wanting to see you.

I don’t believe you! [Michael accuses the Nun]
She wouldn’t say that. She knows I would never hurt her.

You’ve already hurt her. And I will not stand here and be called a liar, young man.

I’m sorry sister, I did not mean that. I am sorry [Michael sits down, he is exhausted of emotion]

[Nun sits beside Michael] How is the healing? [She looks at his face]

I’ll be fine.

Could you tell her that I’m leaving?

[Sister nods]

Will you say a prayer for me; because I am somewhere between love and mythology. That is a good place as any to risk your life, don’t you think?

Boys don’t risk their own lives young man, they never have...They simply risk the lives of everyone around them. [Nun mysteriously walks away]
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Michael's best friend sings and Irish song, as all around at the Pub listen solemnly. They are to leave Ireland shortly, to return to Canada. Michael is completely heartbroken at this point. It is like there has been a death, and all around are witness to his emotions...

Here is the song:

I go down to yonder valley to meet my heart’s delight.
I’ll sit and sing with Mary from morning until night.
I’ll sit and sing with you there, let the bottle remain with me.
Ten guinnies for a wager, ‘cause married we’ll never be.
I was coming from church on Sunday, when my love, she passed me by.
I knew her mind was altered by the rolling of her eye.
I knew her mind was altered by a land of high degree.
Saying, Mary, my love Mary, your looks have wounded me.
If you ever meet with a pretty girl,
With a dark and rolling eye,
Take her in your arms, don’t tell her the reason why.
Take her in your arms ‘til you cause her heart to bleed.
Like many’s a brave young soldier lad, has done upon the field.
Fare the well to the field, so fare the well, the moor
Fare the well to Ireland, should I ever see you more
America is far away, it is a place I go to see.
My curse, my curse, and ten times worse, on the girl who slighted me

...The song is kind of foreshadowing...
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Now in Newfoundland, Michael recites his poetry he wrote in Ireland. His book is quite popular. He recites the last poem in his Irish series. The book is titled: ‘The passions of saint Ursula’...

This next poem will be my final poem of the night. It is another one from the Irish series...

Michael reads his poem:

For the man who walks through the ruins of love and wraps his feet in the bandages of battle
The man behind this brief justice
Is unsure of himself
The unfamiliarity of wind and tide, makes him anxious.
He must shelter his mood and perfect what some may call his sentence.
He has no real illness, and no reason for ignoring the Apostles of verse
Yes, it is I, who fears Jerusalem,
And the Ecclesiastical frames of poetry.
Yet long to hear the final words of decency that tumble from the lips of saints

Michael later on reads from a letter he received from now Sister Cathleen O’connell...

P.S. I have just finished reading the book you’ve sent me. I find your poems truly remarkable. The only think I could correct you on, was in the last poem. Which you so kindly dedicated to me...

The last night we shared together...It was I who undressed you, not the other way around as you implied in your poem.

[They did end up consummating their love in a city outside her hometown, in one passionate night]

Goodbye, Michael.
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Hi Female INFJ,

I can see why you found this movie to be deeply moving given your spiritual path. The passion of Michael is familiar to me. So is his pain at being unable to be with the woman he loved. The choices we make determine the lives we lead.

This is the kind of movie that I would watch if it were placed in front of me. But I doubt I would purposely watch it knowing that it is sad. I guess I never liked this kind of sad movies where the love between a couple cannot be fulfilled.
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