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Well, over the last 3 months or so i have gotten to know a guy from my class in community college. Hes a INTP and i would say we're friends at the same point. He had invited me to his house a few times and i had noticed that he had 3 other women that lived with him and his wife. Well, last month he told me that he was married to all 4 woman, ceremonially without a marriage lincense of course. Of course, given that this guy was not a morman (he's a Christian), and that his wives all consented of this and we're of legal age when they did (around 23 or so) this made me rethink my perception and start researching the issue more. As a Side note, I found it interesting, no joke, that they took the personality test and each one was a NT (INTP, INTJ, ENTJ, ENTP). After much reasearch, and the fact that they don't fullfill the stereotype that the media often protrays, quite the opposite actually, i have gotten to the point where I think have gotten to the point where i think Polgamy (both having multiple husbands or multiple wives) should be legal or at the very lease decrimilized so that no one has to worry about going to jail for it. Frankly, seeing as their are crimes against property and crimes against people, i dont see how my friend's life style qualifies under those definitions of a crime. I don't see how him having multiple wives steals or damages other peoples property or causes direct harm to them. It may flare up their moral senses a bit but that by itself does not qualify something as being criminal. The only people so far that I have seen that have been causing harm are those acting self righteous and calling their children deragatory names. I do want to get other people's opinions about this though.

---Darth

P.S. Can't imagine havin 4 mother-in-laws >.<'''
 

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Damn you have interesting friends Darth. Your friend sounds very interesting, and I like interesting people. He's INTP??? What a world what a world.

I don't have a problem with polygamy, but I am glad I have some peace in my house. I don't think that I would like living with such an extended family under one roof. I am very surprised that they are all NT's, I would have thought that it was some emotional or spiritual trap of some sort. I would like to hear your INTP friend's views. I don't like dating more than one person at a time, and I don't think I would like having more than one wife. I guess it would be nice to have 4 people earning money in the house and taking turns on cooking and cleaning. I am somewhat sure that if I was married I would not want my wife married to someone else. I guess that is my petty or jealous side idk. What keeps them from killing each other? I would think that I would be plotting the other husbands deaths or something:) Polygamy is a wild subject that is completely alien to me, and I find the experience very interesting.
 

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Interesting subject. I have issue with polygamy as it has been commonly practiced, with the wives as property who have little say in the arrangement. It is also an arrangement that I associate with warfare because if one man has several wives while others have none, those lower-status men are more easily groomed for raping and pillaging. Also, a woman may be expected to share her husband with a war widow.

If not grooming for warfare, I think some cultures have gotten around the problem of equal proportions of men and women by having the man marry women much younger than him. It evens out somehow, although I don't know exactly how that works. It is common in history for men to have multiple wives; very rare for the reverse.

In a modern society, it seems logistically complicated. Spouses have certain rights and responsibilities including property rights, next-of-kin, etc. How would that all work out if there are five members of the group? What if one or more want to leave, can you imagine the court battles over property and parental rights? More importantly, is it sustainable? What would be the long-term effects on society if polygamy were to be legalized? Our current practices of serial monogamy don't seem too stable for the future of society.

The history of polygamy leaves me feeling squeamish since it treats women as property and lower-status men as cannon fodder. It seems too legally complex to be practical in the modern world. On the other hand, it may be more stable for the long-term survival of the society. I don't know. I don't believe very many people would want this lifestyle anyway, but if they do I guess it is their choice. However, I don't think a spouse should ever legally be allowed to marry another without the consent of the current spouse.
 

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Well, from my analyzation of the situation the arrangement seems to work out fine. What usually happens is that the wives work together to decide how duties will be worked out for the week. Usually, each wife has a day assigned to her to either cook, do laundry, or watch the kids (naturally, with the ENTJ usually delegating duties lol). Because of this arrangement the wives have alot more free time to do what they want. Matter of fact, in the past they have had times where wife "A" might go back to school and the other 3 wives and the husband continue to work while wife "A" might finish her masters degree.Its quite interesting that in this life styel, the women are able to have a full career while having a family(6 children so far) at the same time. As for the NT thing, i might see why this might work out with our type then others. I mean the NTs are less emotional than other types, therefore there isn't as much of a need for spend every waking moment with your spouse, not to mention if theres a dispute obviously they can solve it in more rational manner without all the drama. I think the reason they don't get at eachother throats also is because is the whole "sister wife" thing. Apparently in africa (there not from there, their purely Euro- American) from my research so far, when this kind of relationships develop the wives participating develop a close knit sister-hood, hence the term "sister wife". So far, like you, i find them facinating so far. I can have dinner over their house and we will literally talk for hours on Intellectually stimulating things.

As for my friends views, he does think it, since hes religious, that it does not betray any biblical views. In short, since i dont want to bore you with a theological history lesson:wink:, basically the church didn't have a problem with polygamy what so ever until around 200A.D. or so. Thats when a guy called Tertullian apparently started having a problem with it (since apparently he had a problem with marriage in general. He was part of the if your Celibate, your more "holy" than someone who marrys). After a while, in order to get more butts in those pews, the christian "leadership" accepted monogamy as the only form of marriage to be more "popular" with the roman public (besides for concubines, the Romans were Monogamous along with teh greeks). Of course since this became policy, and the church would come to dominat western culture this influenced western culture to move along a Monogamy only type of path. So far my research has seemed to roughly confirm this story for the most part. Though i still have more to learn on the subject.
 

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the women are able to have a full career while having a family
That is what I mean about sustainability. Putting little ones in daycare all day isn't good for the children and it isn't good for society.
 

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Is there consent? Yes
Are all members willingly involved? Yes
May members leave at anytime? Yes
Could there be more than one gender, sexual orientation, political affiliation, MBTI type, etc? Yes
Love between two people is love? Yes
Can men love other women and men? Yes
Can women love other women and men? Yes

Is it an outsider's business about what goes on in their private life? NO.

In a modern society, it seems logistically complicated. Spouses have certain rights and responsibilities including property rights, next-of-kin, etc. How would that all work out if there are five members of the group? What if one or more want to leave, can you imagine the court battles over property and parental rights? More importantly, is it sustainable? What would be the long-term effects on society if polygamy were to be legalized? Our current practices of serial monogamy don't seem too stable for the future of society.
That's when I will become a family lawyer and make the big bucks. This industry will be booming!
 

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I saw a very short documentary not to long ago, I cannot remember the name, but it was about some small polygamist town. The older men enforced the laws of the town, and the town was very private. Kinda weary of outsiders or whatever and they didn't even like strange cars driving down the streets. Anyways, the doc was about the young men from that town. They were treated poorly and given very little freedom. When they reached a certain age they had to leave town, but until that age they couldn't leave. These young men couldn't watch movies or TV or anything that might "corrupt their minds". When they reached the age to be a threat in competition with the girls, the older patriarchs expelled them because, according to them, the older guys didn't want the competition.

I am not posting this to start a bias or insert fallacy, I know that the documentary was extreme and about that town. I guess my point is that I would agree with Nitou. I would think laws would be difficult and human nature is somewhat proven by history. The chances for corruption would be high I would think.

Another thing about that movie I just remembered, the church made the laws. The church decided if the young men were good or corrupt and had to leave. It dictated their entire life really. The church was bias because the minister was older and had several wives. He and some council or whatever decided who got to marry, and who had to leave. For some reason the young good looking guys were usually seen as evil.

The doc was bias from the perspective of the young men that left the town. The people living in the town would not appear on camera.
 

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Interesting subject. I have issue with polygamy as it has been commonly practiced, with the wives as property who have little say in the arrangement. It is also an arrangement that I associate with warfare because if one man has several wives while others have none, those lower-status men are more easily groomed for raping and pillaging. Also, a woman may be expected to share her husband with a war widow.
I have thought about this before and seen the arguement though ithink theres one problem with it. The under lying assumption about the lower status man is that they are "Entitle, or have a Right" to be married which obviously isn't so. Do the immature, the irresponsible, and the abusive deserve to be married? I see it kind of like (and i don't use to illustration to objectify women in anyway, whatsoever) supply and demand in economics. If there is high competion for courting a female, then the males that are immature, irresponsible, and abusive will know they need shape up to catch the eye of a pontential woman. Not to mention this type of relationship already goes on to a certain degree. I mean hugh hefner or George Clooney can have a bunch of live in girlfriends and no one cares. But if any of them were to marry all those girls then society gets angry for some reason. At least thats how i see it so far. I would like some input on this if anyone see's any faulty logic anywhere.

If not grooming for warfare, I think some cultures have gotten around the problem of equal proportions of men and women by having the man marry women much younger than him. It evens out somehow, although I don't know exactly how that works. It is common in history for men to have multiple wives; very rare for the reverse.

In a modern society, it seems logistically complicated. Spouses have certain rights and responsibilities including property rights, next-of-kin, etc. How would that all work out if there are five members of the group? What if one or more want to leave, can you imagine the court battles over property and parental rights? More importantly, is it sustainable? What would be the long-term effects on society if polygamy were to be legalized? Our current practices of serial monogamy don't seem too stable for the future of society.

I've thought about this as well. I think there are only 2 steps to deal with this problem. (1) is to make it where children are involved that the case of custody is only between the biological mother and father. This would make it so that custody would proceed as they normally would in monogamy. (2) I would highly reccomend mandatory prenups, in terms that both partys can agree to, in this type of marriage since this would make sure that all things are prepared for in the case of divorce. As for imapct on society, thats as always hard to determine. I dont think it will affect it too much. More and more people a deciding not to marry and the fertility rate in the western world is below replacement for the continuation of a civiliation. So, given that it might not even affect the ratio of men to women very much.

The history of polygamy leaves me feeling squeamish since it treats women as property and lower-status men as cannon fodder. It seems too legally complex to be practical in the modern world. On the other hand, it may be more stable for the long-term survival of the society. I don't know. I don't believe very many people would want this lifestyle anyway, but if they do I guess it is their choice. However, I don't think a spouse should ever legally be allowed to marry another without the consent of the current spouse.
That can be agreed upon. I have read, unlike what is commonally asserted, that in certain Islamic countries the man actually in some cases has to get the permission of his first wife before he can take on a 2nd wife.
 

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I agree with polygamy. Because men are usually polygamous in nature anyway. i think there could be more harmony in this type of situation if everyones happy. No sneaking around, everyone gets what they want, girls have female company and emotional support so the man doesn't really need to be 'softer' if its not in his nature. It's seems a good way forward.
 

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That's when I will become a family lawyer and make the big bucks. This industry will be booming!
Lol! on that last sentence :laughing:

Nothingnew: i'm hoping if it were legalized this might change. I mean if you have more than one wife and you are threatened to be in jail because of it you probably might decide to stay in a town in the middle of no where far away from any big civilized city. Hence, since your there you can commit alot more abust than if you lived in the middle of SanFrancisco or New york. I'm thinking if it were legalized more people might come out in the open and abuse would be more readily dealt with. I see it kind of like Prohibition with alcohol. When it was prohibited, all that happened was it went underground. Since that happened, the quality of the alcohol would be bad, or even made wrong causing health problems. once th prohibition was lifted though, you had some over sight again to make sure their was safety rules in check. I think this might apply to polygamy as well.

And darn my last post when i quoted turned out weird >.<''
 

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I would agree with decriminalizing it and making it legal. It makes no sense for the government to have control over who marries who as long as the individuals are adults and are consenting to it. Thats the personal decision and lifestyle choice of those involved. Its not hurting anybody.

Really, its time for the government to focus on more pressing issues rather than controlling how people can or can't live.
 

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I can see two sides to this. One is being an INTP male it would take 4 women to clean up after me. The other side is I do well now to ignore just one.
 
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I saw a very short documentary not to long ago, I cannot remember the name, but it was about some small polygamist town. The older men enforced the laws of the town, and the town was very private. Kinda weary of outsiders or whatever and they didn't even like strange cars driving down the streets. Anyways, the doc was about the young men from that town. They were treated poorly and given very little freedom. When they reached a certain age they had to leave town, but until that age they couldn't leave. These young men couldn't watch movies or TV or anything that might "corrupt their minds". When they reached the age to be a threat in competition with the girls, the older patriarchs expelled them because, according to them, the older guys didn't want the competition.

I am not posting this to start a bias or insert fallacy, I know that the documentary was extreme and about that town. I guess my point is that I would agree with Nitou. I would think laws would be difficult and human nature is somewhat proven by history. The chances for corruption would be high I would think.

Another thing about that movie I just remembered, the church made the laws. The church decided if the young men were good or corrupt and had to leave. It dictated their entire life really. The church was bias because the minister was older and had several wives. He and some council or whatever decided who got to marry, and who had to leave. For some reason the young good looking guys were usually seen as evil.

The doc was bias from the perspective of the young men that left the town. The people living in the town would not appear on camera.
That sounds like an episode of "Lie to Me" a couple years ago...
 

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I would agree that regulation is better than sending something underground. I once got into a debate about social laws and right and wrong with a Baptist minister and he hit me with, "Well, do you think it is a good idea to just let people have sex with dogs on sidewalks?" I had to agree with him in that I would like public sex of that nature to remain illegal. I think of that conversation when I think about government control and personal freedoms.

I am open to most anything. I would like to see all drugs decriminalized, but what would the newest version of RedBull look like and how would it be marketed? There are consequences to every criminalization or decriminalization. I wish more discussion was on the cause and effects by our government rather than personal dislikes but I am starting to rant already.

I can't take a stance on it ether way I guess. The subject is unknown to me and I can't see past the possible variables. My personal bias is that I would be happy with just one girl I really liked and if she really liked me. Throw in the legalization of pot and I would die happy. But I would not stand for being husband #3 and sleeping in some room while someone else was with my wife. I am not a swinger, at least not if I intended to marry. I would beat him with a ball bat or walk away and not look back. Homie don't play that. To not consider the topic from a female perspective on the same laws would be sexist.
 

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Subjectively, it isn't for me. Otherwise, I don't see any reason for it to be unethical, if all parties are consenting, and I think it should be legal.
 

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I don't have a problem with polygamy, and if it works both ways even better. Being a polygamist doesn't make you automatically a child abuser or a person that takes advantage of the welfare system.

Government has more important things to worry about then polygamy and gay marriage. I say, let them alone and let them have their marriages. The government has reduced marriage to a financial contract status anyway, otherwise we would all have ceremonies, be married in spirit and the government would accept it.
 
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After watching Sister Wives... I put some thought into this matter. I don't think anyone should be able to tell a person who they can and can't marry/love. Why is it such a big deal? Just like I don't think gays shouldn't be allowed to get married if they choose. I think women should be allowed more than one husband if they choose. However, I don't think most people could handle a situation like that because of jealousy and having too many women in one house... man, the hormones that would be flying! I lived with my mom and sister growing up and that was enough to deal with on a daily basis. lol
 

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This issue can be framed similarly to gay marriage: if the parties are consenting adults, who cares? Let them do what they want. Why restrict freedom in such a way? If a cluster of, say, a hundred desire to marry and be very wealthy, why not? Totally serious.

I'm not a polygamist, obviously, but people should be able to do what they want, provided they're not infringing on the rights of anyone else in such a way that brings harm.
 
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