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Fu Dominant
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Hey there, crazy kids.

So after browsing through a few threads about INFJs liking people, how they act around their infatuations, etc, I started to ponder why we may be hesitant to try initiating a relationship (i.e. asking someone out or whatever). And then it occurred to me:

Am I hesitant in initiating a relationship because of some sort of fear of rejection on my end, or am I hesitant because I'm extremely aware of the awkward/unsolicited situation I put that other person in and I'm uncomfortable with doing that?

How about you fellow INFJs?

At first, I thought I just avoided the possibility of rejection for myself, because let's face it, no one likes being out on that limb only to be shot down. It's not fun. But then I wondered... am I putting myself out on that limb, or am I sort of shoving the other person out there, to accept or reject me?

Stupid Fe and its unsettling effects. >_>
 

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big time problems in this department...yes it is when you value somebody/infatuated/etc... super weird.
probably b/c we are thinking already of the future possibilities and repercussions with this person, so if it would be a rejection it would be a BIG loss.
Even though...it really shouldn't be, doesn't mean we haven't played it out in our minds though.
 

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Interesting, I think you might be onto something. My boyfriend does this a lot, but I've never quite fleshed out the reasoning behind it; I just assumed that he was playing shy (I'm a lot more assertive than he is). We have this routine where he gives me this meaningful look and then I ask him what he's thinking about and then he kind of resists a little bit and then I poke and prod him until he shares and he usually prefaces whatever request it is really apologetically, like "I was just wondering if you might be interested in maybe...", almost like he feels like he's imposing on me simply by making a request. Which is weird for me to wrap my head around because I tend to just obnoxiously blurt out whatever I'm thinking as soon as I think it, usually without consideration of how it will affect my audience (selfish Fi, I know). I've tried a few times to explain to him that he doesn't have to feel awkward about asking me things, that I want him to feel like he can ask or tell me anything -- I'm completely capable of saying no to him because I know that he will always respect my answers -- but he still does it. But I find it thoughtful and endearing, especially if this is the rationale behind it :proud:
 

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My fear of rejection is on the same wavelength as my fear of making people uncomfortable. Making them uncomfortable will lead to them avoiding me, essentially rejecting me.

Rejection is a very complicated process in my mind. Sometimes the smallest gestures and the most casual remarks make me feel that I am an unwanted nuisance. Sometimes I question why anyone would respond to me anyway. In the middle of many social interactions, I find myself slightly disconnected from my body on occasion. I am observing my relationships from a strange perspective and I can't quite understand what I'm doing, what I want, and what the other person is looking for.

For every clear, almost enlightened moment I experience about my relationships with people, I get a vague and doubtful image as well. Perhaps my Fe and Se take over when I am "living in the moment" and responding on the spot, but once I retreat into an emptier space, my thoughts bloom, causing me to overanalyze and question and detach myself from the people I will eventually go back to because I can't help wanting to immerse myself in the human tides. My friends don't know how much I love and how much I want to get away from them at the same time.
 

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Fu Dominant
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Discussion Starter #5
We have this routine where he gives me this meaningful look and then I ask him what he's thinking about and then he kind of resists a little bit and then I poke and prod him until he shares and he usually prefaces whatever request it is really apologetically, like "I was just wondering if you might be interested in maybe...", almost like he feels like he's imposing on me simply by making a request.
Even though it's been like a decade now, I still remember having that issue as well. :laughing:

Fortunately, my SOs found that endearing too. At the time, I couldn't articulate why I did that, but I'm pretty sure this is the reason now, that Fe puts us in a position of highly valuing those around us, at times to paralyzing levels. We definitely benefit from having someone willing to patiently prod us for that stuff. :tongue:

Edit/Addition: It's probably a mix of Ni/Fe/Ti, not just Fe. We extrapolate possible reactions based on previous encounters using Fe, form how it could all go with Ni, and internalize it all thanks to Ti which results in the nearly paralyzing effect until the outside prodding through Fe comes in to bring stuff out.
 
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I'm pretty sure this is the reason now, that Fe puts us in a position of highly valuing those around us, at times to paralyzing levels. We definitely benefit from having someone willing to patiently prod us for that stuff. :tongue:
And this is why INFJs are my favourite people ever. Such a delightful combination of thoughtful and awkward! :wink:
 

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INFJs are so adorable, always worrying about how others are feeling, or whether they might make people uncomfortable. It is one of their most charming qualities. I don't know if you are looking for advice, but if you are, here are my suggestions.

For any empathetic INFJ who worries about putting unwanted pressure on a potential mate, I suggest that the solution might be to declare your own feelings in a matter-of-fact way, without imposing the expectation for a response. Just tell the person you are interested in him/her, and let the other person decide what to do with the information, without making it a question or a demand. Instead of saying, "Will you be my girlfriend?" say "I would choose you if I were given the opportunity," and leave it at that.

I know there might be the implied expectation, but if you are really worried, there are ways of being subtle or ambiguous about it, in order to give the person a way out of having to reject you directly in a worst case scenario. I'm not saying this is the best option, but INFPs (people like me) tend to drop hints repeatedly and watch for signs that indicate whether those hints are being received positively or negatively. This serves several purposes: It allows us to retain hope rather than being crushed by direct rejection, and the hope of some vague possibility sustains us in times of emotional drought; It allows us to avoid inconveniencing those we care about; It sometimes leads to a very natural flow of events in which a relationship happens almost automatically, without any pressure on either side. Some INFJs might lack the necessary subtlety, or might consider such an approach irritating. Also, it only works on people who are especially perceptive. A person who doesn't understand might think of it as playing mind games, even though some of us take the approach quite seriously. It rarely works on __TP types, so if the person you are pursuing is, for example, an INTP, then s/he might not even notice. Anyhow, it's still an option, if you are trying to win the heart of a fellow NF.

Realistically, I doubt that most people would be disturbed by being told directly that they were liked, even if it turned out that they didn't reciprocate. As long as you aren't being pushy, and as long as you aren't treating the person in a dehumanizing manner, giving him/her the option of accepting or rejecting you doesn't have to be uncomfortable or awkward.

If you allow an easy way for the person to avoid having to address the matter directly, while still being as honest as possible, the fear of causing discomfort or awkwardness can be eliminated entirely, although trying to get this perfectly right can be a little tricky.

Maybe I am wrong, and maybe I have unknowingly caused people distress by being too open or too mysterious about my feelings in the past. There is a certain balance to guessing what will work best in any specific situation. Admittedly, I am not socially skilled, and I might not always know when I have made others uncomfortable, unless they are at least a little expressive, but I have gotten into some good relationships with people I still consider worthy by using a sincere approach, or a subtle one, depending on the person, and of the people who have rejected me before things got to that point, I doubt many felt particularly awkward about it, since most of them remained close friends with me even after turning me down romantically. I suppose that is one of the advantages to the fact that I am only attracted to people with whom I already have some kind of preexisting intimate connection, such as a strong friendship or a sense of being interconnected through shared values.










One thing I would like to mention, which is only partly related, is that there can be a downside to the tendency to avoid making other people uncomfortable, despite how refreshing the quality can be for those of us who are used to having our sensitivity violated by those who don't care at all. The avoidance of other people's discomfort can be a problem when a necessary confrontation is postponed for so long that it becomes a bigger disaster, especially when the feelings that are being withheld are negative. In such situations, the fear of causing others discomfort can cause a peace-loving person to quietly tolerate unpleasantness while the oblivious source of that distress continues to unknowingly harm him/her without meaning to do so. At the peace-loving person's breaking point, s/he may withdraw unexpectedly, causing more harm through abandonment or sudden cruelty than would have occurred if the problem had been addressed earlier. (The INFJ doorslam can be very painful from the other person's perspective.)

My last boyfriend was most likely an INFJ type 9, or at least seemed so to me, with a double helping of the non-confrontational tendencies I generally admire so much, and I think people who have that very attractive combination can be accidentally dangerous because of it if they aren't careful to remain honest about their own feelings in times of stress. (Admittedly, my being openly sensitive can make it especially difficult for such people to do so.)
 

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Yep I put this into action a couple months ago. I wanted so very much to compliment someone, so I spent weeks writing and rewriting this letter for her. I bought special paper, a good pen, practiced my handwriting over and over... I even ripped the very edge around the paper to give it a rustic look, folded it and tied it with a simple thin ribbon. I spent so much time making this perfect, and it sits collecting dust in my apartment.

Then I sent an electronic message asking her if she was cool with receiving something like this in public. We work in the same building, I dont know her situation (though I have hunches), and didn't want to put her on the spot or make her feel uncomfortable. I wanted her to know I was harmless and had no real agenda. I even wrote in the electronic message "I would rather these things go unsaid than to make you feel awkward for even a moment." I also wanted her to know that I didn't expect a response, I didnt want to put her on the spot and make her feel obligated to engage me if she really didnt want to.

Rejection is part of the reason I have a hard time stepping out, but you can be rejected even over email. There is something about face to face that causes my brain to start misfiring. I forget how to walk, mind goes blank etc etc. I am better at expressing myself through written word (though terribly long winded), so that seemed best to me. All in all, I want to protect them as much as me.

I feel like I have to justify my interactions with people. I feel like I am bothering them, and so I approach them gingerly and in the least invasive way possible. Combine this with a whole heap of negative baggage based on experience, and this becomes quite the challenge.

Edit: all this talk about this behavior being adorable and endearing makes me a little envious lol. I either get ignored or just viewed as a weirdo. I suppose this is because people dont know me and therefore dont know just how innocent and harmless I really am. All I want is to be given the benefit of the doubt just once :D
 

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almost like he feels like he's imposing on me simply by making a request.
I always feel like I am imposing on somebody, I do the same thing if I were to bring up a "heated" topic. It isn't about the topic, it's just that I think, "hey they seem like in a pretty good mood, I don't want to bring them down"

Justifying action is a big one too...

I made a friend a happy birthday thing...and was already kind of embarassed about it, then they posted it to every one on facebook and I was like AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. I mean, they loved it, but it was so embarassing.

I don't really like showing people my writing either, I'm scared of their reactions. I know a lot of people can be judgmental, so I have to keep my feelings protected.
 

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My fear of rejection is on the same wavelength as my fear of making people uncomfortable. Making them uncomfortable will lead to them avoiding me, essentially rejecting me.

Rejection is a very complicated process in my mind. Sometimes the smallest gestures and the most casual remarks make me feel that I am an unwanted nuisance. Sometimes I question why anyone would respond to me anyway. In the middle of many social interactions, I find myself slightly disconnected from my body on occasion. I am observing my relationships from a strange perspective and I can't quite understand what I'm doing, what I want, and what the other person is looking for.

For every clear, almost enlightened moment I experience about my relationships with people, I get a vague and doubtful image as well. Perhaps my Fe and Se take over when I am "living in the moment" and responding on the spot, but once I retreat into an emptier space, my thoughts bloom, causing me to overanalyze and question and detach myself from the people I will eventually go back to because I can't help wanting to immerse myself in the human tides. My friends don't know how much I love and how much I want to get away from them at the same time.
I relate to a lot of this: anticipating poor reception to passing thoughts I might otherwise consider expressing, the dissociation, the detachment. In particular, though, the bolded really gets to the crux of my difficulties interacting with others.

I am not a decisive person. I am also a boring person with no goals or interests. As is plainly apparent, the one tends to beget the other. The result is that I never experience a strong sense of identity or purpose . . . the lingering presence of these unanswered questions always seems to becloud my interactions with the world and others: Why am I here? What am I doing? Why am I doing this?

This is problematic, to be sure, but not understanding what other people are looking for/expect compromises my ability to communicate even further. Every interaction occurs within the confines of expectations, most of them implicit and unstated. But it seems to me that people do not customarily advertise (perhaps especially do not advertise, actually) even those expectations which are not at all implicit. For me, lack of self-certainty combines with this unfortunate reality to disastrous effect.

This is why I struggle in casual settings. The easiest interactions are dialogues with one other person in a question and answer format. All I have to do is answer the questions. But most interactions are not nearly as simple or prescriptive. Among a group of people without a predetermined to context limiting the scope of interactions between them and consequent potential outcomes, there exist a virtually infinite possible number possibilities. This is overwhelming.

Most people do not think like this. They just act. Sometimes the results are favorable, and sometimes they aren't. And life goes on. But I'm too neurotic and self-absorbed to adopt this approach. I am constantly searching for the right thing to do or say, which, even if this exists, is obviously inaccessible to the extent that it depends upon other people's unspoken expectations (of which even the people who hold them may not be consciously aware).
 

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Yes, I think this is definitely a part of it for me too. I just remember the first time I rejected someone. It was terrible! I felt that I was now causing unbearable misery and heartbreak for this guy, and I spent hours agonizing over the fact that I was going to reject him. Only later did I realize that it wasn't a big deal to him at all! He hardly knew me and just thought I was interesting because we liked the same band. :tongue: When I talked to him a year later he was dating someone else, and they were expecting a baby... I guess he must have been quite comfortable asking girls out, but I was definitelly not prepared for it!

I'd certainly not put anyone through that unnecessarily, though I don't think it's the biggest reason why I don't ask people out. Usually I fall for people that I already know well, so I'm more afraid that it will affect our friendship and cause awkwardness between us. Also, I think I'm actually more afraid of being embarrassed than rejected. Rejection I can deal with on my own, embarrassment is more public. I love everything Snail wrote though! It seems like an approach that would lessen the amount of embarrassment...
 

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Yes, I think this is definitely a part of it for me too. I just remember the first time I rejected someone. It was terrible! I felt that I was now causing unbearable misery and heartbreak for this guy, and I spent hours agonizing over the fact that I was going to reject him. Only later did I realize that it wasn't a big deal to him at all! He hardly knew me and just thought I was interesting because we liked the same band. :tongue: When I talked to him a year later he was dating someone else, and they were expecting a baby... I guess he must have been quite comfortable asking girls out, but I was definitelly not prepared for it!

I'd certainly not put anyone through that unnecessarily, though I don't think it's the biggest reason why I don't ask people out. Usually I fall for people that I already know well, so I'm more afraid that it will affect our friendship and cause awkwardness between us. Also, I think I'm actually more afraid of being embarrassed than rejected. Rejection I can deal with on my own, embarrassment is more public. I love everything Snail wrote though! It seems like an approach that would lessen the amount of embarrassment...
I had this problem recently when I broke it off with a girl. I learned that her feelings were not NEAR as bad as mine, and she moved on almost immediately. I thought I was going to hurt her pretty bad, but she didn't even really care. Which made my predictions of her being "fake" correct... as I had a hunch of that already, but never can be sure.
 

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Hey there, crazy kids.

So after browsing through a few threads about INFJs liking people, how they act around their infatuations, etc, I started to ponder why we may be hesitant to try initiating a relationship (i.e. asking someone out or whatever). And then it occurred to me:

Am I hesitant in initiating a relationship because of some sort of fear of rejection on my end, or am I hesitant because I'm extremely aware of the awkward/unsolicited situation I put that other person in and I'm uncomfortable with doing that?

How about you fellow INFJs?

At first, I thought I just avoided the possibility of rejection for myself, because let's face it, no one likes being out on that limb only to be shot down. It's not fun. But then I wondered... am I putting myself out on that limb, or am I sort of shoving the other person out there, to accept or reject me?

Stupid Fe and its unsettling effects. >_>

It's a matter of the INFJ Fe/Se.
Se seeks external gratification. Every other trait of Se stems out of that.
Se's are more concerned with how they dress,
they are more competitive in their need for acceptance and can come off as show-offs.

Si is more "I'm doing it MY way".
That's why Si's can have a stodgy / stubborn streak in them.

Our Fe / Se combo makes us very sensitive.
If I'm not mistaken, it's also responsible for why many INFJs are kinda depressed.

Our Ni/Ti makes us so different from everyone else,
and our Fe/Se is upset about that.
 

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Fu Dominant
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So it's an inferior Se that's to blame. No wonder. Good call there. :eek:) I usually only think about my inferior Se in terms of things like having the occasional Oreo craving or whatever.

Damn it, now I want some Oreos. :dry:
 
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Se is basically acting on anything. Se is about minutia, small decisions, being in the moment and things like that. Ni is more elaborate...sometimes the efforts of Ni just seem plainly off the wall and often are compared to how they are acted upon in the real world.
Ni often creates meaning off Se... when other types just see it as no meaning at all, and there probably shouldn't be any. But we make it this big ordeal for ourselves anyway, it's paralyzing.

One thing that has helped me is to set time limits on making decisions... I know my Ni might sometimes jump me... so I make sure it matches up with the outer world, then try to turn it on it's head... and realize my mind might see a pattern, or see an outcome... but reality is often random and I should just do it and not tie any meaning behind things.

Ni/Fe often likes to jump to conclusions about people, and I have tried my best to stop this... basically checks and balances to make sure my hunches are real. Often times they are, sometimes not... just have to be careful.
 

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Am I hesitant in initiating a relationship because of some sort of fear of rejection on my end, or am I hesitant because I'm extremely aware of the awkward/unsolicited situation I put that other person in and I'm uncomfortable with doing that?

But then I wondered... am I putting myself out on that limb, or am I sort of shoving the other person out there, to accept or reject me?
I like the way your mind works!!!!!! :D
It is indeed a question worth considering; possibly it's true.
I have been pondering something a little similar.
Thanks for asking this
 
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It's a matter of the INFJ Fe/Se.
Se seeks external gratification. Every other trait of Se stems out of that.
Se's are more concerned with how they dress,
they are more competitive in their need for acceptance and can come off as show-offs.

Si is more "I'm doing it MY way".
That's why Si's can have a stodgy / stubborn streak in them.

Our Fe / Se combo makes us very sensitive.
If I'm not mistaken, it's also responsible for why many INFJs are kinda depressed.

Our Ni/Ti makes us so different from everyone else,
and our Fe/Se is upset about that.

Looove your explanations. So my Ti has trained my Fe not to give a flying Feck about rejection because of my Si?:tongue:
 

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i dislike both being rejected and rejecting. i'll feel their emotions just as strongly.

i always enter a kind of rut when i realise someone has feelings. sometimes i think i'm starting to reciprocate their emotions... until i realise i'm only mirroring them. empathy confuses things. i wish i never had to reject anyone. they only want what everyone wants - to be loved. i want to slink away and die of guilt.

paradoxically, i thus have no time for manipulators who try to guilt-trip me into a relationship or play on my emotions. i see right through it. i surround myself in a dense enough cloud of self-hatred to make my own miniature hell... don't compound it.
 

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Looove your explanations. So my Ti has trained my Fe not to give a flying Feck about rejection because of my Si?:tongue:
Wow, lol!
Yeah, pretty much!

To quote @Ann Kane :
"[ENTPs] got swag". Lol!

ENTPs are better (nicer) about it due to your Fe.
ENFPs have that Fi/Si combo that means they do it their way and REALLY don't care what you think.
 
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