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Discussion Starter #1
As the title says, I think I may have made a massive mistyping somehow.

Basically, I was goofing around on the internet and it got into my head to try and properly type my mother. My process was basically assembling her type one letter at a time by comparing each preference to her observable behaviour today and I got to the conclusion that she's an ESFJ, so I went to check out the type descriptions.

Then, after reading the descriptions and reading the entirety of the massive thread "Why do people dislike ESFJs?" over in the FJ forum, I realised that I sometimes do a lot of what people described as ESFJ traits.

Now, of course a bit of variation is to be expected for anyone, but 2 things in my life exacerbated my concerns.

1) I had a relationship a few years back where I think if I'd typed myself, I would have gotten ESFJ or something close, based on my memory of my behaviour at that point. For example, I always put the happiness of the girl far above my own, such that when the relationship ended because I'd turned clingy and irrationally jealous, I amplified that behaviour to push her away, with the reasoning that she would be able to be happier with someone other than me at that point. Also, I was using guilt trips and passive aggressiveness to get what I wanted, which backfired. Needless to say, this wasn't the best course of action, and now unfortunately we no longer talk.

2) My mum's an extreme ESFJ, for sure. For example, just this week, she told me to keep from driving when I go overseas to study, saying that many foreign students have died because they were driving, citing an article that she'd read. I pressed slightly and she finally admitted that the actual figure was below a hundred. In a country of millions. Irrational fears for loved one, check. Blind faith in newspapers, check. There are also a lot of times when she screams at me for not sleeping, in the middle of the night when she wakes up for a drink and I am reading on my laptop. I'm about to leave for undergrad in the US, and her rationale for her anger was that if I could not sleep at 'normal' times, I would end up keeping to my strange sleep schedule after school starts, which I know will not happen because I usually wake up just before my alarm goes off on school days.

To add on, I can definitely recall both ENTP and ESFJ tendencies throughout my life, and it seems that I tend to oscillate between the two, with more ENTP at this point. I can also, strangely, identify with both types.

This is a condensed version since I want more people to actually be able to get to the end of it. So my concern is, did I actually mistype myself and am actually ESFJ, or is this kind of strongly ESFJ behaviour an ENTP stress reaction, or is it some kind of strange imprinting from my mother?

And yes, the mix of abstraction and concrete examples is on purpose, though not as well implemented as I'd like, but I've spent the last 5 hours thinking in bed so I can't be bothered to fine edit it.
 

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1) I had a relationship a few years back where I think if I'd typed myself, I would have gotten ESFJ or something close, based on my memory of my behaviour at that point.
Personally, I avoid making any type evaluations based on someone's relationship with a SO. That's stacking one type of chaos onto another, in my opinion.
 

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Personally, I avoid making any type evaluations based on someone's relationship with a SO. That's stacking one type of chaos onto another, in my opinion.
What do you mean by "SO"?
Hmm what would you work better with? Writing sample? Personal blog?
 

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What do you mean by "SO"?
Significant Other.
Sometimes relationships don't exactly bring out the best in people (due to the nature/circumstances, or the other person(s) involved), so it can be difficult to accurately type someone at times. Also, keep in mind that our shadow type is ISFJ, so if you're under stress then you may be displaying some of those characteristics.
 

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What do you mean by "SO"?
Hmm what would you work better with? Writing sample? Personal blog?
SO = Significant Other. I default to that term instead of "Romantic Interest" these days. Shorter, and less defining.

While I'm quite comfortable discussing and interacting with the 16 types, I'd never tell someone else what type they are with certainty. Mostly, I'm comfortable typing some people when I've known them for quite some time, and even then, it's much easier to type the Extroverts than the Introverts. ISFP's and ISFJ's are especially difficult for me to get a read on.

I was merely commenting that I avoid using that area of someone's life for typing, because there's a lot of instinctual and societal forces at play there.

Edit: Didn't know about Clever Waffle's response because I was still in my editing phase. Apparently I've been editing for 26 minutes now :/
 

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Discussion Starter #6
While I'm quite comfortable discussing and interacting with the 16 types, I'd never tell someone else what type they are with certainty. Mostly, I'm comfortable typing some people when I've known them for quite some time, and even then, it's much easier to type the Extroverts than the Introverts. ISFP's and ISFJ's are especially difficult for me to get a read on.
I appreciate your restraint, I know how you can't be absolutely sure of your answer in this circumstance. Still, might I get your first impression? As an ENTP, I'm sure you have some faith in your intuition.
 

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I appreciate your restraint, I know how you can't be absolutely sure of your answer in this circumstance. Still, might I get your first impression? As an ENTP, I'm sure you have some faith in your intuition.
Yeah, I subcontract pretty much everything to my intuition, as you can see from my cognitive test results in my sig. I'd be more than happy to look around a bit at previous posts, and let you know which way I'd lean on your type. Just so long as you, and more importantly, random viewers, don't get the impression I'm making a definitive call. That's why I was editing so much, I started to say a lot more, but I've seen, in my short time here, quite a few people get riled up over how others apply these systems.

Let me root around a bit.
 
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Alright, I found a quote you put up in one of your posts, if you wouldn't mind elaborating on it. I'm about done evaluating everything I found, but I wasn't certain about this, and thought it might provide some insight. I'm somewhat weak what it comes to analyzing poetic phrases.



Just listen while shaken by emotion but not with the coward’s imploration and complaints. - Unknown​
 

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Yeah, I subcontract pretty much everything to my intuition, as you can see from my cognitive test results in my sig. I'd be more than happy to look around a bit at previous posts, and let you know which way I'd lean on your type. Just so long as you, and more importantly, random viewers, don't get the impression I'm making a definitive call. That's why I was editing so much, I started to say a lot more, but I've seen, in my short time here, quite a few people get riled up over how others apply these systems.

Let me root around a bit.
Awesome, much thanks! And don't worry, I'm not a MBTI cultist, just see it as a possibly very effective avenue to self-improvement, since the descriptions tend to be pretty accurate and insightful.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Just listen while shaken by emotion but not with the coward’s imploration and complaints. - Unknown​
This was from the period with the SO, but I liked the quote after because it was a pretty good reflection of my mentality at that time, that emotion was not something that could be eliminated or controlled; the only thing that we can control, to any appreciable extent is our physical actions, and it is this control that is the mark of a true man, not the blind avoidance or denial of emotions.
 

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Here's a few selections from your posts that I suspect are most relevant.

Originally Posted by @szhongren
We're improvers by nature, we are always on the lookout for a better way, even with the most meticulously thought through plan.

It's Google's mentality: Everything is always in beta.
Jazz and blues, for some reason. A lot of Ray Charles and B.B. King. Other than that, pretty much anything depending on circumstance and mood, even metal (especially when at the gym).

Personally I don't like to have favourites because I'm worried it'll restrict me mentally
. Anyone else have this experience?
And when responding to the question "How do you feel about your body?"

Extension of the mind, mostly for me to get around and collect sensory experiences so I can be better and know more from personal experience.
These are not the sort of things I'd anticipate an ESFJ responding with. There's plenty of types that might say thiese things, so I wouldn't say they are ENTP specific, I just suspect that finding an ESFJ that gives three responses like this is unlikely. Maybe one such response, for some unique reason, but not all three. Again, this is only my suspicion, not a declarative statement.
 
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These are not the sort of things I'd anticipate an ESFJ responding with. There's plenty of types that might say thiese things, so I wouldn't say they are ENTP specific, I just suspect that finding an ESFJ that gives three responses like this is unlikely. Maybe one such response, for some unique reason, but not all three. Again, this is only my suspicion, not a declarative statement.
Again, many thanks. My main worry is this:
The ESFJ's value system is defined externally. They usually have very well-formed ideas about the way things should be, and are not shy about expressing these opinions. However, they weigh their values and morals against the world around them, rather than against an internal value system. They may have a strong moral code, but it is defined by the community that they live in, rather than by any strongly felt internal values.
and this:
ESFJs incorporate many of the traits that are associated with women in our society. However, male ESFJs will usually not appear feminine at all. On the contrary, ESFJs are typically quite conscious about gender roles and will be most comfortable playing a role that suits their gender in our society. Male ESFJs will be quite masculine (albeit sensitive when you get to know them), and female ESFJs will be very feminine.
The above seems to suggest that the ESFJ is highly prone to changing based on society's expectations, which is true of me, however I also seem to display the weaknesses of ENTP (inability to follow plans, boredom is my kryptonite) which is what is most worrying. That, and the fact that my mother is strongly ESFJ (Whose intentions are always clear to me) would seem to suggest that my natural type could be ESFJ masquerading as an ENTP? And the fact that I know I know ENTPs are getting more mainstream popularity doesn't help. Not sure if this makes sense.
 

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I find that I possess a lot of different traits from a few MBTI profiles. Not much you can do other than try and align cognitive functions correctly and keep an open mind. Have some traits extroversion, others intro; some are F while others are T. All I'm really consistent with is the xNxP part of it. Although once I tested J - but have yet to find any correlation.

I initially thought I was ENTP but life situation has made things murky so I cannot fairly declare one way or the other. My advice is to go with the flow until something strikes the bell.
 

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The above seems to suggest that the ESFJ is highly prone to changing based on society's expectations, which is true of me, however I also seem to display the weaknesses of ENTP (inability to follow plans, boredom is my kryptonite) which is what is most worrying.
Nah, I think that is perfectly plausible for an ESFJ.

ESFJ:

Fe is just making evaluations (good/bad, nice/mean, pretty/ugly, etc.) of things using external arbiters. Since it's dealing with value judgments here, that means those external arbiters are going to be people or ideas made by people. External arbiters doesn't always mean just what all the cool kids are saying. A good example of an adaptive and successful external arbiter is the Scientific Method, which is a great example of a system that Te would approve of. Unfortunately, not being a Fe type myself, I can't come up with a good example of an external measure a Fe type might use, but I suspect a lot of philosophies may be applied by extroverted feeling in a similar way.

Si, now that I have a lot of experience with. As a dominant. My description for the auxiliary form shall be a bit shorter. Si forms its understanding and idea of reality based on its own internal perception/conceptions of it (The fire is comforting. Why is the fire comforting? Because it is warm, and to the Si type, warmth is a comforting thing.). So in the auxiliary form, Si works as a guide or a adviser to the ESFJ's Fe.

ENTP:

Ne isn't actually oriented towards the future; its possibilites are oriented towards "What is this thing really, beyond the surface/beyond what we can perceive of it?" Now Si, the opposing function, isn't surface, but Ne thinks so (I am a touch biased from being a Si dominant, yes). Ne looks for all the possible meanings and signifigances of an object. It believes those meanings are out there and you have to find them (unlike Ni, where the meaning is formed by the person) because it is extroverted.

T in general is just making judgments of validity, correctness, and classification. Now, Ti is making those sorts of judgments with your own mind as the arbiter, instead of Te, which decides things with external systems. It too works as a guide or an adviser to the ENTP's Ne.

Both:

A good way of identifying type is looking at the inferior.

ENTPs have inferior Si, and I have already mentioned Ne's opinion about Si. It also tends to think that Si is a stick in the mud, because Si doesn't find truth in scouring the external, but by understanding in the internal. Basically if you find my description of Si to be something useless or just ???, that might lead you to ENTP.

ESFJs have inferior Ti. They might see it as groundless. "Where is your proof?", they ask, because the concept of "internal proof" is a bit preposterous in their eyes.
 

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ESFJ: Dominant Fe followed by secondary Si. What this means is that is that ESFJs gain more enrgy from interacting with others and making others feel good than anything else. This is accompanied by a strong knack for thinking about details.

ENTP: Dominant Ne followed by secondary. What this means is that ENTPs gain more energy from thinking about and trying possibilities for the future than they gain from.anything else. This is followed by a logical filtration system to analyze the validity of these possibilities/ideas.

Whichever hits closer to home is the one you most likely are. Although the fact that you are so heavily analyzing the concept of MBTI would suggest an N preference.
 
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