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INFJ 1w9 so/sx
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Discussion Starter #1
It seems most 5s react to pressure in relationships by withdrawing in order to regain autonomy, but do any other 5s respond in the opposite way?

Although I withdraw sometimes, I often choose to preempt the loss of my autonomy in the first place by creating a culture around the relationship that will aid my own curiosity and other needs. For example, if I feel drawn towards pre-war film while in a relationship, my instinct will be to incorporate this into my relationship as opposed to finding alone time to explore this interest. Creating a culture of curiosity in my relationships does a lot to keep me comfortable and prevent the sense that I am losing my autonomy.

In general, I come on strong and try to actively preempt a partner from limiting me in any way. This means that, unlike a typical 5, I am the more intense partner in my relationships. I put more pressure on my partners than they put on me in this effort to construct an environment where all of my interests are welcomed and understood. I also make room for my partner's needs and interests.

With the effort I put into these relationships, I can easily become more attached to the relationship than my partners, since it represents not only a connection with another person to me but really a lifestyle that I have built around the relationship. I am not advocating this approach to love but this is a trend I notice and it runs quite contrary to the typical 5 in relationships. Are there other 5s out there that also notice this pattern in themselves?
 

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I'm not eager to build "two of us" worlds and don't promote my interests in the relationships, nor I try much to find common hobbies if the other party doesn't remark theirs. If, for example, I'm going to visit a museum, I simply ask my partner to come with me, and if he refuses twice I conclude that he isn't interested. Then I consider doing this hobby alone or with others. If such a pattern repeats again and again in different matters I perceive that as a signal of incompatibility, and think about investing my energy in something other that the relationship, with better results: the withdrawing process starts.
That said, if I'm put under pressure by my partner to do something- including pursuing their hobbies- at the early phases of relationship I MAY succumb out of some "inactivity" (due to laziness? passiveness? lack of motivation to hardly disagree? being averse to confrontation? I don't know exactly why. I just know that the pressure doesn't create any genuine intimacy and interest), but later feel extremely smothered and react impulsively to a degree that shocks others (not the best way to communicate, I know. I'm working on it. However the ones who exert pressure seem clueless about finer remarks of disagreement).
So I don't put much energy into building bounds, and leave relationships with relative easiness.
 

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something about the language in the first post is problematic for me. it appears as if you’re saying you think most fives withdraw when their face with pressure in relationships but you feel that you were the one creating pressure in your relationships.

I think I definitely try to foster sense of intimacy with my partner, I love sharing hobbies and passions and long conversations and then long periods of silence. I probably do put a little pressure on others to step into either my world or our mutual world most likely, I love creating a mutual space of communication and trust and shared interests. I am also a sexual subtype. When I withdraw it is into my mind where I think about thinking and disengage from emotions. this sometimes doesn’t mean I detach from people specifically and unfortunately the results are often that I completely ditch people who have cause me to need to withdraw in the first place. But from someone who is actually nice to me I don’t think there’s any reason to withdraw from them. I might need to take a day or two from extreme emotions that I don’t necessarily agree with if that comes up but I don’t think that is the reason to abort a relationship. I would almost rather have a high level of engagement the no engagement at all. I don’t respond well to fellow withdrawn types. It just creates too many fucking obstacles
 

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Discussion Starter #4
something about the language in the first post is problematic for me. it appears as if you’re saying you think most fives withdraw when their face with pressure in relationships but you feel that you were the one creating pressure in your relationships.
Not sure what you mean by problematic language but you get the gist. In other words, 5s are supposed to value their autonomy and private time so much that they withdraw in relationships. My approach seems to be different in that I find it easier to merge my private interests with my relationships so that I don't feel the need to withdraw. It's essentially emphasizing my interests and goals at the beginning of a relationship so they aren't offended or surprised if/when they realize I want more for myself than a family. The pure idea is that I'll end up forming relationships with people I won't need to withdraw from.

Of course, as you said, withdrawing doesn't have to be dramatic and can be as subtle as a period of silence. It's somewhat heartbreaking for me to think of silence and withdrawal as a fundamental 5 trait rather than a consequence of circumstances. Well into adulthood I still struggle to accept that there may be nobody on earth I won't feel the need to withdraw from. No matter how hard I try I still search for the One that eternally banishes awkward silence and flawlessly sees my best intentions (the ones that come closest I seem to have no interest in).

In general I relate to what you've said, particularly about not relating to other withdrawn types. That can become a living nightmare within hours of meeting the person.
 

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Not sure what you mean by problematic language but you get the gist. In other words, 5s are supposed to value their autonomy and private time so much that they withdraw in relationships. My approach seems to be different in that I find it easier to merge my private interests with my relationships so that I don't feel the need to withdraw. It's essentially emphasizing my interests and goals at the beginning of a relationship so they aren't offended or surprised if/when they realize I want more for myself than a family. The pure idea is that I'll end up forming relationships with people I won't need to withdraw from.

Of course, as you said, withdrawing doesn't have to be dramatic and can be as subtle as a period of silence. It's somewhat heartbreaking for me to think of silence and withdrawal as a fundamental 5 trait rather than a consequence of circumstances. Well into adulthood I still struggle to accept that there may be nobody on earth I won't feel the need to withdraw from. No matter how hard I try I still search for the One that eternally banishes awkward silence and flawlessly sees my best intentions (the ones that come closest I seem to have no interest in).

In general I relate to what you've said, particularly about not relating to other withdrawn types. That can become a living nightmare within hours of meeting the person.
another thing to watch out for is overly identifying yourself with any framework you didn’t create yourself. You are not defined by enneagram.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
another thing to watch out for is overly identifying yourself with any framework you didn’t create yourself. You are not defined by enneagram.
Yeah I was more suggesting that it could be a fundamental trait of who I am and reading about that as a 5 characteristic only reinforces that suspicion. But good point. In the past I cared about fitting the mold cause I was unsure of my type. Today I take what's useful and move on. But that doesn't stop me from being curious about the limits of the system.
 

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My type 5 brother likes: movies, TV series, anime, video games, music...

What he does with anyone that he knows well enough to spend personal time with, including friends and family but also partners, is to find movies, TV shows, anime, etc. that he thinks a particular person (and sometimes more) might like. His impulse is to share them, and include others in the experience. He'll watch something multiple times with each person who has yet to see it. That way, he can enjoy his preferred mediums with them. Sure, he could enjoy those things alone, but ultimately it's still not as satisfying.

I understand his approach, but I don't do it to the degree that he does. I don't feel that need to.

I either gravitate to something that my partner likes naturally, or I don't like it and just try to understand what's appealing about it from my partner's perspective by asking questions about it. My boyfriend is more likely to request that I join him in doing an activity together than I am of him, as I'm pretty content to go see a movie that we're both interested in seeing, and just as fine seeing it on my own. When one of us honestly states disinterest there's not a big fuss about it. Instead, there's an enthusiasm when we do mutually enjoy doing something together, instead of angst over what we don't both like.

There's not much point in feeling bad when an activity isn't mutual, though I understand my partner's frustration when I'm content to do some research or reading and he really wants to go out.

Perhaps, what I've been getting at with saying all this is that I don't see compromise in my relationship as something that's threatening my autonomy, I actually see compromise as something I can do that, proactively, is preserving my autonomy.
 

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Lotus Jester
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I can be friends with other withdrawn types; but it would be difficult to sustain a relationship with one.
 

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I am too curious about pressure and the concepts of how people reach their boiling points to withdraw. If anything, I withdraw to an observational point of view, find a new approach or perspective, then take action. I never act on instinct and expect others to follow pursuit.

If it's a relationship, then the moment is shared, so I will say what I want to do, correlate it to what they want to do, and make a decision. If they are not interested in something I want to do, I will do it in my own time, or form a compromise. It has nothing to do with losing one's independence. From what you described, it sounds as if you are trying to take control because you don't want the other person to take control, which sounds more like a trust issue.

I love to have connection and understanding with others, and having shared, mutual motives with another person is much more valuable to me than trying to do what I want to do because of an insecurity. I spend so much time alone, reading or writing or researching, that it seems nonsensical to feel pressure in such cases as you described -- surely my sense of autonomy would have been through the hobbies I mentioned. To say that I might 'lose my autonomy' would insinuate that my autonomy, or independence, is reliant on those decision makings, on taking control over somebody else's desires, which isn't true. There should never be pressure within a relationship in having to make a decision, particuarly as small as deciding what film to watch, or should we go to mini-golf - if it's a consistent mechanism to the relationship, I would probably leave, because something isn't right.

As to a mass group such as family, I seldom open my mouth. They all decide on what they're going to do, they agree, and if I don't want to do it, I either do it anyway in order to spend time with them, or do my own thing. I'm never in a position of being locked down
 

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Lotus Jester
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I have this bad habit of pissing people off in the beginning of forming connections. I tend to be very ambivalent at the beginning and come across as somewhat disinterested; I do this both, because I both want and fear closeness and because I tend to get overwhelmed by strong emotions - particularly my own. Being an SX first, forces me to try to stage engaged, while simultaneously fighting it every step of the way.
 
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