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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
These days, we modern humans seldom find ourselves in a life or death struggle with the natural world.

In those ancient times before civilizations arose, the threat of a violent death was present every day. Predators, raiders, broken bones, infection, childbirth, and the elements were very likely to kill you, where as today, the majority of these threats have been neatly packaged into manageable risks by modern medicine and technology.

Prehistoric people were only successful if they were strong, fast, cunning, and aggressive. Reproduction wasn't a matter of courtship and social factors, it was "Hey, I survived long enough to reach puberty! And so did you! Jackpot."

There was no room for the weak, the sick, or feeble. Genetic disorders and inherited disease were eradicated before they could tarnish your bloodline.

Hemophilia? Nope, that time you fell off that rock as a kid led to your death. Didn't breed.

Down Syndrome? Nope, not enough tools to survive. Didn't breed.

Cystic Fibrosis? Nope, that lung infection when you were two. Didn't breed.

Duchenne muscular dystrophy (DMD)? Nope, gotta be strong to hunt. Didn't breed.


Prehistoric man was a product of a constantly refined bloodline of awesomeness.

We are a cesspool of invalidity.



Domesticated man : Prehistoric man

As

Domestic Dog: Wolf
 
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I find this interesting.

I think we've come a long way since it being survival of the fittest.

Now it's survival of the most socially capable. Which kind of makes sense, since our rise to global dominance was through our ability to act communally. Like Chimpanzees but way fucking better.

The one comparison I do like to draw is - who was more free?

Ok hunting and foraging was a life-or-death thing, but I don't think prehistoric man had to set a fucking alarm clock, and force himself to go out to do shit if he didn't necessarily want to at that time. Amongst all the other bullshit things we 'modern' humans put ourselves through. Prehistoric life will have had more death lurking at every corner, but I strongly believe they'll have been much more at peace, in terms of overall psychological well-being at least. The complexity of modern society is certainly a whole new level of absolute mindfuck at times.

Chimpanzees and gorillas look to be mostly rather relaxed the majority of the time, if that's any comparison to go by.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I find this interesting.

I think we've come a long way since it being survival of the fittest.

Now it's survival of the most socially capable. Which kind of makes sense, since our rise to global dominance was through our ability to act communally. Like Chimpanzees but way fucking better.

The one comparison I do like to draw is - who was more free?

Ok hunting and foraging was a life-or-death thing, but I don't think prehistoric man had to set a fucking alarm clock, and force himself to go out to do shit if he didn't necessarily want to at that time. Amongst all the other bullshit things we 'modern' humans put ourselves through. Prehistoric life will have had more death lurking at every corner, but I strongly believe they'll have been much more at peace, in terms of overall psychological well-being at least. The complexity of modern society is certainly a whole new level of absolute mindfuck at times.

Chimpanzees and gorillas look to be mostly rather relaxed the majority of the time, if that's any comparison to go by.
Totally agree, I'm glad you brought that up, because it was something I meant to add to my statement.

We have so many things that we're supposed to be stressed out about, that if you take one goddamn second to not be stressed over something, you're lazy and non-productive.
 

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Totally agree, I'm glad you brought that up, because it was something I meant to add to my statement.

We have so many things that we're supposed to be stressed out about, that if you take one goddamn second to not be stressed over something, you're lazy and non-productive.
I want to be lazy and non-productive. Is this bad?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I want to be lazy and non-productive. Is this bad?
See, you're choosing to be lazy and non-productive. Probably due to the unnatural expectations of a domesticated society, and pressures of civilization in general.

Like @HAL said, prehistoric man didn't have to set an alarm clock and do shit he didn't want to do at the time. If he had a successful hunt that week, or secured food in some other way, he was doing fine.

The only reason we even have labels like: "lazy" or "non-productive" is because of expectations placed on us by a culture of servitude and oppression.
 

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That's why you live your own life by your own standards and not a life influenced by your friends standards or the society as a whole.
I do that.
My friends, my family, my employers they know I do.

The way to do it is to get respected first, then you can play it as you want.
Are you going to question the ways of a person you respect?
No, you will be understanding. Therefor I can do as I want.

A post above mentioned "socially capable". Not necessarily.
Because once one of of those mouths recognize your skillset.
You can trust two things. They will respect you, and they will tell on you.
They will build your respect for you. Word of mouth, finest respect builder there is.

Get skilled in your field. Action over words. ISTP way. The best hunter and gatherer.

I have a good relationship with my friends and family. And no alarm clocks for my employers.
I control my own day. I tell my employer I'm not working today.
 

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The interesting thing about prehistoric man was that their point of reference was externalized. i.e. they would be in what Levy-Buhrl and Jung call participation mystique where they saw themselves as sons of deities and beholden to hidden forces of causality; everything outside the norm was synchronistic. For these reasons, prehistoric man were cautious and took few chances.

Modern man's first point of reference has moved within himself and is egocentric, interested in his own freedom and sense of agency as much of the archetypal projections of old have moved into the unconscious. In this sense, modern man is no longer embedded in culture and must invent his own niche knowing that regression back to historical collectives or older ways of living is incompatible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
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The only time I feel free is when I am away from civilization. Civilization traps you by providing comforts and conveniences which we come to depend on because they make us weak. I think most people would die fairly quickly if civilization collapsed; one bad winter would be enough (it gets cold here). I don't take any delight in that, it is just a fact.

I don't think modern man is better than prehistoric man, modern man just has more resources and information to call upon to achieve goals. Modern humans can tell you a lot about a few things but I suspect prehistoric humans knew a lot about many things simply to survive.

Its hard to say who is physically healthier if you take away medicine. A human from the past who is healthy would probably be much stronger, tougher and willful than a modern counterpart. Modern humans are fed more often but a lot of it is crap that causes health problems. Some antibiotics don't work that well anymore and I wonder what will happen if that trend continues.

I think the comparison of Dogs and Wolves is a good one. The average wolf is more impressive than the average dog but some dogs are better than wolves. The freaks of nature bred to kill wolves and other wildlife or to run very fast, kind of have human equivalents in modern athletes. Being 7 feet tall or 350 lbs is not really a good survival strategy and requires a huge support structure to maintain those sizes. Modern athletes keep breaking records but look at the amount of training time they have and the technology that goes into improving their performance. If all of this was taken away, would they still be breaking records?
 

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Prehistoric man didn't have to set an alarm clock because he woke up at the crack of dawn due to hunger. They didn't have to deal with Becky and her bitching about college because he was worried about food, which he most likely didn't get enough of.

Prehistoric people wernt more free, thats for sure.
 

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These days, we modern humans seldom find ourselves in a life or death struggle with the natural world.

In those ancient times before civilizations arose, the threat of a violent death was present every day. Predators, raiders, broken bones, infection, childbirth, and the elements were very likely to kill you, where as today, the majority of these threats have been neatly packaged into manageable risks by modern medicine and technology.

Prehistoric people were only successful if they were strong, fast, cunning, and aggressive. Reproduction wasn't a matter of courtship and social factors, it was "Hey, I survived long enough to reach puberty! And so did you! Jackpot."

There was no room for the weak, the sick, or feeble. Genetic disorders and inherited disease were eradicated before they could tarnish your bloodline.

Hemophilia? Nope, that time you fell off that rock as a kid led to your death. Didn't breed.

Down Syndrome? Nope, not enough tools to survive. Didn't breed.

Cystic Fibrosis? Nope, that lung infection when you were two. Didn't breed.

Duchenne muscular dystrophy (DMD)? Nope, gotta be strong to hunt. Didn't breed.


Prehistoric man was a product of a constantly refined bloodline of awesomeness.

We are a cesspool of invalidity.



Domesticated man : Prehistoric man

As

Domestic Dog: Wolf
If all those genetic disorders and inherited diseases weren't passed on,.. How come they survived?

All the things you mentioned were deadly upto about 150 years ago and some still kill. You really don't have to go prehistoric for that.

So humans that lived 200 years ago were just as awsome (as you think they are) as those prehistoric creatures.....


In order for evolution to have a positive development only 2% of the population has to be an improved version of the previous generation. (look it up online if you wonder if that's really true.) That means that 98% of the population can be a lesser version of the previous generation and still as a species we'll improve. (in reality, most are just an equal version of the previous generation ofcourse.) This is true today and since evolution works the same way now as it did back then, everything that you think is wrong with us today, was wrong with them back then.


Sorry man,... But a little bit of knowledge about what you´re talking about would prevent you from creating these kinds of romanticized ideas about the past. But then again,... what are the chances that you´re in the 2%?

I'm just messing a little with you, but it really does help to gain more knowledge about these kinds of things.
 

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Sorry man,... But a little bit of knowledge about what you´re talking about would prevent you from creating these kinds of romanticized ideas about the past. But then again,... what are the chances that you´re in the 2%?

I'm just messing a little with you, but it really does help to gain more knowledge about these kinds of things.
Sorry man,... But a little bit of open mindedness about other peoples opinions would prevent you from creating these kinds of "I'm better than you" ideas about the yourself. But then again,... what are the chances that you´re an understanding individual?

I'm just messing a little with you, but it really does help to gain more knowledge about these kinds of things.
 

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Sorry man,... But a little bit of open mindedness about other peoples opinions would prevent you from creating these kinds of "I'm better than you" ideas about the yourself. But then again,... what are the chances that you´re an understanding individual?

I'm just messing a little with you, but it really does help to gain more knowledge about these kinds of things.
:happy: Wauw, was it that bad that someone felt the need to defend him? I didn't meant it to be that offensive.

Perhaps this doesn't make sense to you, but to me, what he wrote was offensive. When people get negative like he did I get defensive. "We are a cesspool of invalidity",... really?..... come on!

And also, it made no sense (which annoys my Te and makes it really difficult to not reply). I really don't see why one should be openminded to misinformed opinions. As far as I'm concerned I'm doing him a favor by showing him where his logic doesn't make sense. But perhaps I could have done it in a nicer way. (And you´re right,. not one of my strongest points.)
 

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:happy: Wauw, was it that bad that someone felt the need to defend him? I didn't meant it to be that offensive.

Perhaps this doesn't make sense to you, but to me, what he wrote was offensive. When people get negative like he did I get defensive. "We are a cesspool of invalidity",... really?..... come on!

And also, it made no sense (which annoys my Te and makes it really difficult to not reply). I really don't see why one should be openminded to misinformed opinions. As far as I'm concerned I'm doing him a favor by showing him where his logic doesn't make sense. But perhaps I could have done it in a nicer way. (And you´re right,. not one of my strongest points.)
I guess I just don't understand why you care what his opinion is? You most likely won't change it anyway.

Hey, you shared you opinion as did I. That's why we here :)
 

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I guess I just don't understand why you care what his opinion is? You most likely won't change it anyway.

Hey, you shared you opinion as did I. That's why we here :)
I just reply to what is written, not to who wrote it. Who wrote it is irrelevant.

And you do care,... you replied to my post because you cared, didn't you? :happy:
 

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I just reply to what is written, not to who wrote it. Who wrote it is irrelevant.

And you do care,... you replied to my post because you cared, didn't you? :happy:
I've had extensive experience with INTJ online. Forgive ke if I assume your intent us out of anal self righteousness and arrogance.
 

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I agree with you on what your getting at.

That said I am thankful for modern things that help preserve the 'weak or vulnerable' that cant tend to themselves.
Especially if the "weak" is kinda liked/cared by you.

I'm indifferent about letting the "weak" die from their condition unless I care about them. Definitely on the side of letting the "stupid" get killed by their own stupidity though.
 

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That's evolution for you.

It's survival of the fittest. Not survival of the best. Another term would be 'survival of the adequate.'

Many things that were detrimental to our fitness in prehistoric times are less so today, even more are now beneficial. Those that can specialize would have died in an age where they would have to be able to do everything. Those that can do a bit of everything but aren't great at anything today are also known as the people that don't advance in life.
(And before you start on ISTP-jack of all stats: Do you grow your own food, build your own house, make your own furniture, make your own tools, teach yourself any language, practice your own medicine and teach your own children etc? No, didn't think so. You need other people, admit it.)

Some medical conditions have always existed, because while the homozygote is lethal or at least detrimental, the heterozygote is actually beneficial. Since we can now treat the homozygotes, they survive longer. Other diseases only show up at a time in life when, in the past, many would already be dead.

We have adapted. We no longer are perfect for a prehistoric life, but we are more fit than a prehistoric person would be in our society. Socially as well as genetically. That's why eugenics is so stupid - what is your supreme being going to do when circumstances change?

Variation is what a healthy species needs.
 
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