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MOTM Dec 2011
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That implies One would also identify with a negative self-concept. From the perspective of retroflection, they identify with a "good" self concept, even when they are self critical and not externalize their self-condemnment, they identify with the judger, not the judged. The doer rather than the done-to. In case of 4 it is introjected (judgement) and identifying with the "judged", the "introjected bad object". The done-to who suffers. The forsaken. The one to pity. The rescued...
Yes, 1s and 4s are not the same...that is why they are different types. I am pointing out some overlap, hence the 4 connection to 1 and vice versa. 4s identify with the judged...it is a different side of the same coin in many ways.

Does that mean they don't do anything to others? As Naranjo said about sx4, "hurt people hurt people". But they may not see it, or may downplay it, because they identify as "done-to": "Nobody suffers like me".
No, and nowhere did I nor the OP imply 4s are angels.
4s usually take some ownership of their own suffering, although it is not an empowering kind..."Nobody suffers like me" does not represent the complete feeling. The rest of the statement is "Nobody suffers like me because there is something wrong with me and they are 'normal'."

So, what does that distinction mean, whether they identify with it or not, or at core/surface, when we are discussing type descriptions/ behavioral traits?
It means the issue is not pride, and to perpetuate that misunderstanding prevents the 4 from uncovering the real issue and resolving it. The accusation of pride will trigger shame and anger and all the defense tactics that go with.

The "You're a bad person" approach to criticism doesn't work with anyone.

To stop identifying oneself as a victim may also involve retrospective awareness of bad behavior as a repercussion, and incongruency with ideal self may be the exact reason for avoiding that confrontation with if you will "ugly self", and in that respect block personal growth, and essentially clinging to this self-victimization. So I'm much more focused on dynamics and causal relations than definitions or traits, that in my view are not innate permanent states anyway, but conditioned ego states and mental formations and possible to change or transform.
I don't think 4s self-victimize anymore than any other type. Resisting one's own role in their problems is an ego defense in general. The way of resisting is partly what differentiates types.

We are also not just one instinct so a certain mixed dynamic is likely. An Sx dom doesn't always "fight", but "fight" is not "flight".
I don't disagree with this, but it is also a mistake to think that feeling some shame always means "flight". The so 4 displays the most shame, and they do not do the kind of "flight" that an sp does. Instead, they wear it visibly to try and incur pity. I think sx/sp do use "flight", aka the push-pull, so as to avoid displaying shame. sx/so may dramatize shame so as to make it seem glamorous; it is not ordinary pain, but tragedy to almost be admired. Romanticizing shame is not the same as true pride, because it requires a negative self-image still. The surface over-inflation of self is very thin and easy to crack. Doing so isn't helpful to them.

You may think that, but that is limited to your own personal experience. I rely on "some" (Fauvres, Naranjo, Chestnut, a.o.) as well as my limited personal experience. But I'm not so much concerned how often, but why, if identification with negative self was.so obviously a "core" issue?
Because they justify the negative self they identify with. Frankly, from personal experience, it is not that anger just overrides it. What was inhibiting you was shame, not healthy self-control, and once you lose the shame, it is not that you see yourself as good, but that you cease to give a shit. You are right about the hurt people hurting - there is desire to lash out and hurt. But that is not out of pride. That is spitefulness from someone who has lost all pride - they recklessly toss their reputation in a moments of emotion.

If something is not that frequent, then it doesn't define the type enough to consider it a main feature anyway.

I believe you yourself noted somewhere that sp4s may find it hard to identify their *core* vice (denial of envy). So why is this true for you for counter-envy, but not for counter-shame? (denial of inferiority). I think both can be understood in line with instinct.
Hard to identify or admit does not mean never identifying or admitting. Also, lack of identifying in oneself is not lack of revealing to others. We frequently reveal things about ourselves to others that we do not identify in ourselves, without realizing it. Hence, appearance of an sx 4 vs their experience of themselves concerning shame are two different things.


I'm not saying sx equates to confidence or sp equates to lack thereof. Mind you, Naranjo pays only one 4 line paragraph to Poor Self image, but I think you blow it out proportion. For you it seems to be some innate and permanent trait that defines the type at the core.
While Naranjo is very insightful, I do not think he is the end-all, be-all of enneagram. Also, he describes poor self-image in more than just the trait structure, whether he uses the phrase "poor self-image" or not.


You don't come across as someone who feels inadequate when it comes to understanding Enneagram.
:exterminate:


Anyway, it's an interpretation of inner void experience. It's not a constant, but something that is conditioned, and each instinct has it's particular dynamic, and each level has it's particular intensity. 4s may not be aware of their envy, that is, having a negative connotation like pride (etc) also is, it's more explicitely a focus on suffering, on what they lack or mis out on, in comparison to others. Identifying based on what they are not or have not. It's not just disparaging themselves, or a deflated sense, but having no satisfaction or gratitude for what they are blessed with. It's not so much "ugly me" per se -of course that's possible, but that's just something this inner void is projected upon. It can also be "familiarity breeds contempt", what you don't have somehow seems more desireabe or gratifying than what you have or is viable. "Every time you think you got it made, it seems the taste is not so sweet". (paraphrasing Bowie).
I can agree with this, but an insistence of framing it as a pride issue is what I don't get. The core issue is not pride, even if the appearance of a form of it exists as a part of disintegration.

Look at a 6 - being a risk-taking sx 6 doesn't make being fearless their real problem.

Not taking shit, like being critisized. You think they outwardly resist but start crying when they see their mummy?
No, I think if they truly were unaffected, they would not get angry or defensive, and they do not take criticism calmly. That stems from it hitting a sore spot, that spot NOT being pride. Prideful people do not acknowledge affect so readily anyway; if they did, they'd be giving weight to criticisms.

The anger that you direct at yourself can also be channeled in resentment towards the ones who outperform them or who done them wrong. But an sp (or so), or lets just day "the sp instinct of a 4" would less likely do that than the sx instinct, so this means more negative energy, more frequently, year after year, will be aimed at oneself, (more so for an sp dom than sx dom), as you say self-loathing. Which is not good for self esteem.
Envy leads to self-loathing. Different route, same end. Envious people loathe themselves for envying.

I don't know him well enough other than his music. But I'm not saying that types are not significant as compared to instincts, but that instincts are more discrete than types. So, you already mentioned the line to 1, and we're discussing a type 2 vice. I think type is much more a spectrum, or "fluid" if you will. Like Sp avoids being engulfed where Sx seeks to be immersed, and "lose Self" (a precondition for fusion or merging, or trancendence).
I don't disagree with most of what you say, just the weird insistence on connecting it to pride (as if it is a core issue for 4s), especially in relation to what the OP is discussing. There seems an agenda here unrelated to the topic at hand.

With rampant mistyping, heaping more confusion onto the 4 type by ascribing them common 2 traits is not very helpful. I am very much convinced there is under-typing of 2s and 3s online. Discussing why a 2 might mistype as 8 (or 4 even) is far more interesting.... The 2 as "the helper" can be quite the misnomer.

In short, do 4s display something that could be called pride? Yes. This was addressed pretty early on in the thread. Is pride their core issue and is trying to humiliate them a solution? No.

The obsession with sx types is such a yawn too. Please start a separate thread on sx 4s so I can ignore it.
 

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@Starflakes
No, I'm not a savior or rescuer.
I think you should know, mimesis, that when I read this I felt frustrated and infuriated. Please never say this to another 4. I'm saying this out in the open because I'm pretty sure if the same thing was said to another 4 in a similar context they would have felt what I felt and I want people to have awareness of this so they can refrain from doing it.

I know you're not a rescuer. I never for one second thought of you that way or wanted you to rescue me. To assume this of me made me feel severely misunderstood and belittled. I was trying to understand your intentions and trying to acknowledge any good intentions you had, which was completely invalidated because you chalked it up to me seeking a rescuer.

It's kind of like....say you're an enneagram 2 and you really care about someone. You go out of your way to do something really nice for them and in response they say, "Oh thanks but no thanks. I don't want to accept that from you because you're a 2 so you're just trying to manipulate me." Yes, twos have an inclination, when unhealthy, to give in order to get, but that does not mean we are inside them and know their motivations. Two's are human beings and as such they care about people. Many times they're just expressing genuine care and we have no right to invalidate this care and assume we understand their motivations and intentions.

My motivations, emotions, and intentions are my own. Feel free to ask what they are but please never assume you know what they are.

I'm not sure how well I explained this. Perhaps other people understand what I'm getting at and can explain it better.
 

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I think you should know, mimesis, that when I read this I felt frustrated and infuriated. Please never say this to another 4. I'm saying this out in the open because I'm pretty sure if the same thing was said to another 4 in a similar context they would have felt what I felt and I want people to have awareness of this so they can refrain from doing it.

I know you're not a rescuer. I never for one second thought of you that way or wanted you to rescue me. To assume this of me made me feel severely misunderstood and belittled. I was trying to understand your intentions and trying to acknowledge any good intentions you had, which was completely invalidated because you chalked it up to me seeking a rescuer.
Ow, you feel misunderstood? I apologize for misunderstanding you? Shame on me?
Which part was misunderstanding, that I'm not a rescuer or savior, or that I believe you can help yourself?

I was saying, you don't have to buy it, it's a gift. That's half jokingly. Like when people say 'I'm not buying a word you're saying'. So, you don't have to believe me. I'm not trying to sell anything. It's for free. You are free to bring it to your advantage. I won't feel insulted if you don't want it.

Then you interpreted that as 'trying to help'. That's either putting yourself in a position as 'needing help', or suggesting that I see myself as a helper and you as in need of help. (btw, I know from personal experience, that could also be an effective defense mechanism: "I appreciate you are trying to help (subtext: but you don't understand who I am)").

But I don't see it that way. Granted, I do believe my views have value and significance, but I'm really not invested in 'truth', as much as I am interested in how it 'works'. I'm not interested in what a 4 *is*, but the type of *dynamic* at play. So, looking out for a savior, or habitual self-victimization (like feeling misunderstood as a defense strategy or to cope with criticism) is reinforcing fundamental beliefs of inadequacy or external locus of control and feelings of alienation. I am keenly aware of the self-fulfilling prophecies at play, but I also know this dynamic can change and it's possible to escape this cognitive behavioral loop. At the top health level of type you can find 'self-creative', so clinging to type 4 as your 'identity' and a set of 'static' traits is not likely going to bring you there (spoiler below). But mind you, you don't have to buy it. I believe all these fundamental beliefs can change, and perhaps I believe in you more than you believe in yourself. But of course, you know yourself better than I do. I am talking about a type of personality dynamic not about persons. Please help yourself with making that distinction.

It's kind of like....say you're an enneagram 2 and you really care about someone. You go out of your way to do something really nice for them and in response they say, "Oh thanks but no thanks. I don't want to accept that from you because you're a 2 so you're just trying to manipulate me." Yes, twos have an inclination, when unhealthy, to give in order to get, but that does not mean we are inside them and know their motivations. Two's are human beings and as such they care about people. Many times they're just expressing genuine care and we have no right to invalidate this care and assume we understand their motivations and intentions.

My motivations, emotions, and intentions are my own. Feel free to ask what they are but please never assume you know what they are.

I'm not sure how well I explained this. Perhaps other people understand what I'm getting at and can explain it better.
Um, so how is 'I'm not a savior or rescuer' misunderstanding your suggestion that I am trying to help? I am compassionate with the struggles of people who type as 4 (actually to anyone but I can relate most to those of type 4), but I don't pity because I regard every person as my equal, and I strongly prefer not to see anyone here as helpless or broken beyond repair. I won't acknowledge what I think are false beliefs, or conditioned helplessness and I am aware that what I write is not easy to swallow and can make people angry. I'm certainly not hostile in any way. I can understand it may feel that way (hell, you don't want to know how often I used to feel misunderstood, but if you really don't like to feel misunderstood my advise is not to grow and liberate yourself, because the more you are free in your mind, the less likely people will understand you, though you will not feel alienated), but perceived sleights (as a result from strong identification) is beyond my control.

Four's search for the beloved said:
At these levels, Fours are perceived as overly indulgent in emotions, too sensitive to perceived slights and criticism, and as melancholic outsiders who are self-involved with issues or attitudes about most other people. Fours at these psychological levels lose touch with day-to-day practical and physical needs as they become wrapped in their romanticized world of suffering and belief they are defective, different or special.
Mystical Longings -- Four’s Search for the Beloved - Enneagram Monthly


 
The Obsession with Being Something
Total Being is a recognition that freedom means there is no need to be something. When I say “something,” I don’t mean a specific thing; I don’t mean an object; I don’t mean form. I mean any experience. Because we are obsessed with being something, we are always trying to find out what is the exact something that is truly what we are. And that is precisely what the inner journey is about, what realization or enlightenment is about—finding out what we are or what reality is. And, as you know, we find out many things as we go along. We find out everything—from being a body, being a self, being an individual, to being presence, being awareness, being nonduality, being totality, being the absolute, being the macrocosm. And it is necessary for all of these experiences to happen. They need to happen not because one of them is the final answer, but because their happening is the expression of the freedom of Total Being. Every experience is always an expression of Total Being.
http://www.ahalmaas.com/glossary/inner-journey/2616
 

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That implies One would also identify with a negative self-concept. From the perspective of retroflection, they identify with a "good" self concept, even when they are self critical and not externalize their self-condemnment, they identify with the judger, not the judged. The doer rather than the done-to. In case of 4 it is introjected (judgement) and identifying with the "judged", the "introjected bad object". The done-to who suffers. The forsaken. The one to pity. The rescued...
Yes, 1s and 4s are not the same...that is why they are different types. I am pointing out some overlap, hence the 4 connection to 1 and vice versa. 4s identify with the judged...it is a different side of the same coin in many ways.
I'm going to respond in separate posts, because I'm not sure if I can reply to all in one time.

My view is that vices are not exclusive, and not just overlapping, but related. Type 1's (stereotype!) indignation is a pride related anger. Type 3's Vanity or vainglory is also related to Pride. Interestingly, Pride as a virtue, is related to Magnanimity (type 8), and according to Aristotle, it is impossible without nobility (4 Aristocrat?) and good character (1). But somehow you care to believe type 4 is some sort of black hole, or void, or exception in between (or outward, not 'core'). I can imagine it is difficult to reconcile this with your understanding of type 4. There's a mental phenomenon with regard to inner contradiction, that is known as cognitive dissonance.

That is also what I meant when I said that self-victimization can create a blindspot to hurt caused to others. I'm not suggesting you believe 4s are angels, no need to get defensive there. I'm not demonizing a type, just saying that a 4 *may* not see or believe the harm done to others (or downplay it), and perhaps when they do *may* switch to self-pity or self-loathing as a way *to cope* with shame. "I can't do anything right!" or "I'm inately defective beyond repair" is not the same as owning up to it by taking responsibility for your actions, and more like (reinforcing) believe it is beyond your control. In that sense, from the perspective of personality dynamic (which is my focus, not static personality traits), it is self-defeating if not maladaptive.

If you understand the dynamic, you may also understand it can change, and how.

Oh, and btw sp is less inclined to self-victimization.
 

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I think you should know, mimesis, that when I read this I felt frustrated and infuriated. Please never say this to another 4. I'm saying this out in the open because I'm pretty sure if the same thing was said to another 4 in a similar context they would have felt what I felt and I want people to have awareness of this so they can refrain from doing it.
Oh and btw I don't mind you are saying this out in the open, but last time you jumped the gun out in the open, I deleted our little conversation as you wished, which I was happy to oblige for your sake, not mine, so if you really have the pretence to teach me a lesson in courtesy or not jumping to conclusions, even after having done you that favor, then I suggest you lead by example, okay?

I understood you meant that as expressing appreciation, that's very kind of you. I was not suggesting you see me as a savior or rescuer, I was saying I don't see myself as a savior or rescuer, nor do I see you as a damsel in distress. ;)
 

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It means the issue is not pride, and to perpetuate that misunderstanding prevents the 4 from uncovering the real issue and resolving it. The accusation of pride will trigger shame and anger and all the defense tactics that go with.

The "You're a bad person" approach to criticism doesn't work with anyone.
I'm not implying anything such, and following your logic accusing type 2 of Pride would be not only accurate, as it would imply type 2s are 'bad persons'. Just sayin' , I'm sure that's not how you see it, but it does follow and so for you to figure out where the leap of faith is, or perhaps the opposite of faith.

I don't think vices or passions make one a bad person per se, and neither does being virtuous make one a good person per se. (Lao Tse, "Virtue does not seek to be virtuous, precisely because of that it is virtue"). Just for the sake of the virtue of equanimity, there is virtue and vice in everyone. Sometimes (or habitually) the vice (or fixation) is 'blocking' or 'obscuring' the virtue or essential aspect. Like envy vs gratitude (envy in latin:in-vidia, or blindness to what you are blessed with) or pride vs humility.

So basically, enneagram vice and fixation is about how essential aspects are obscured. I can see the love in every single 4 (yes, you too sweetie ;) ) on this board and beyond. But that's not what enneagram is about, because not just 4s are lovingful creatures. It's not something significant to any type but 'universal' if you will. But each type may have significant ways of obscuration (of love, joy, etc). If an sx4 'abandons before being abandoned' it's not because there is no love in this 4. It's -paradoxically- a (self-defeating, maladaptive) way of coping with fear of (anticipating /expecting) abandonment, avoidance of re-experiencing trauma. There's definitely some related Pride in there, for instance in denial of needs or interdependency. If you are truly humble, there is no ego-substrate to fear the humiliation that is related to abandonment or rejection.

So, Melancholy is the obscuration of the essence of Joy (4), like Resentment is an obscuration of the essence of Purity (1), like Ingratiation is an obscuration of the essence of Kindness (2), like Lust is an obscuration of the essence of Shakti [cosmic creative energy] (8), like Retention is an obsuration of the essence of Peace (5) and Anticipation is an obscuration of the essence of Absorption [Flow in Presence] (7).



It's possible to change maladaptive coping to adaptive coping, but usually one first has to see the maladaptive behavior and understand why, and understand how other strategies may be more adaptive. However often there are causes that keep one in a circle of maladaptive behavior, or that prevents to even acknowledge this behavior. For instance self-serving bias or incongruence with self-concept and ego attachment to (ideal) self-image, or perhaps the defense tactics that you are implying.
 

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I'd say, if you've got something to be proud of, show off a little bit! I was a rock star in the 8th grade. Got all sorts of commendations and awards for academics. Didn't prepare me for high school, where I really sucked, but I was pretty pumped up in college, too. Don't hide your light under a bushel. If you've got it, flaunt it! Even down-to-earth 4s tend to have a sassy style, or distinctive way of speaking that singles them out. I'm a 4w5, and that little 5 wing was beating like crazy through my BA and my masters degree. You don't have to run around bragging about every little thing, but if you're hot at something, let the world know it!
 

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I don't disagree with this, but it is also a mistake to think that feeling some shame always means "flight". The so 4 displays the most shame, and they do not do the kind of "flight" that an sp does. Instead, they wear it visibly to try and incur pity. I think sx/sp do use "flight", aka the push-pull, so as to avoid displaying shame. sx/so may dramatize shame so as to make it seem glamorous; it is not ordinary pain, but tragedy to almost be admired. Romanticizing shame is not the same as true pride, because it requires a negative self-image still. The surface over-inflation of self is very thin and easy to crack. Doing so isn't helpful to them.
I see myself in this, and I do type at Sx/So.

People, even on the forum, have pointed out that I seem to have a lot of pride in 'overcoming' my tragedies. But I see this as a misread. I find it authentic to wear my tragedies, my errors, my suffering, on my sleeve - thus making it admirable or beautiful, even if in truth, it is still ugly.

A good, cold hard example of this, is when I was in college. Prior to that I was a singer, aiming for Broadway and very likely to get there. Then an illness took my voice away, and I will be on meds for the rest of my life, so I also lost my autonomy, ability to move around or travel, and so much more. During the hardest part of illness I almost died. So needless to say I was fucked up. I should probably mention I was not perfect before that. On the outside I was a straight-A student who could sing very well, but my songs were about sex, death, hatred, my suffering and flaws, being rejected by the world. And just before I got sick, I was actually suicidal. I felt apart from everyone, hopelessly different, and unseen. I sang my dirty, oversexed songs, and people said "I want my daughter to grow up to be like you." Seriously.. why? I wrote half of a musical about a prostitute when I was 11, because perhaps that is how I felt: like I was prostituting my soul to this world in order to get by, but who I am underneath is disgusting, degraded by this process, or perhaps not even degraded because I'm so broken to begin with. I was not normal, and not in a good way.

So, fast forward to college. After my illness, I became, for all intents and purposes, anorexic and drug addicted. I took up photography in college, worked in the photo lab and sneaked into the darkroom through a window that I propped, after the art building was closed. There, I blasted my music, the songs that were the only things in the world that could come close to understanding or reflecting my pain: Marilyn Manson, Nine Inch Nails, and the like. I would bring mix tapes and super-impose pictures all night. The pictures were often nude self portraits, of my clearly starved, skinny body, covered in blood, dirt, scrapes, or with symbols of my losses drawn on it, or poetry scrawled over it. I super-imposed myself over a picture of my blood, a picture of a dead cat bleeding from the head in the road, and other things of this sort. They were never sexual, just raw. And I took pictures of myself at the piano but left a long exposure and ran out of the frame, to show the "ghost of my voice," my loss. People called this beautiful too, and called me "shameless."

This is very different from pride or confidence, but some people read it as such, because I am naked on the camera and making myself "beautiful" in these frames and hanging them up in public. I'm not as fucked up now, so my songs can have a much more accessible, confident edge, but there is always some exposure of my shame. I sing lead through my whisper, which is all that is left of my voice, and people call that beautiful because I am owning my scars and displaying my weakness and loss for the public to see.

I would agree that if these elements aren't there, it's not a 4. But I want to point out that alot of people DO read me as over-confident, shameless, proud, etc. So I can see where the confusion comes in, and how there might be something correct in Naranjo's descriptions, at least from the perspective of the observing eye. As a sexual 4, I read to others as confident, shameless, etc. I wouldn't say that's completely false, but it's more about displaying and owning my shame. That is all I can do; I can't get rid of it or change it. But displaying it in art or even day to day life, as such, is a compulsion. And nobody can take that from me, and that may read as "pride" in who I am as well.
 

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People, even on the forum, have pointed out that I seem to have a lot of pride in 'overcoming' my tragedies. But I see this as a misread. I find it authentic to wear my tragedies, my errors, my suffering, on my sleeve - thus making it admirable or beautiful, even if in truth, it is still ugly.

#personal narrative

This is very different from pride or confidence, but some people read it as such, because I am naked on the camera and making myself "beautiful" in these frames and hanging them up in public. I'm not as fucked up now, so my songs can have a much more accessible, confident edge, but there is always some exposure of my shame. I sing lead through my whisper, which is all that is left of my voice, and people call that beautiful because I am owning my scars and displaying my weakness and loss for the public to see.

I would agree that if these elements aren't there, it's not a 4. But I want to point out that alot of people DO read me as over-confident, shameless, proud, etc. So I can see where the confusion comes in, and how there might be something correct in Naranjo's descriptions, at least from the perspective of the observing eye. As a sexual 4, I read to others as confident, shameless, etc. I wouldn't say that's completely false, but it's more about displaying and owning my shame. That is all I can do; I can't get rid of it or change it. But displaying it in art or even day to day life, as such, is a compulsion. And nobody can take that from me, and that may read as "pride" in who I am as well.

keywords: Aristocrat (Nobility), (Tragic) Romantic, Melancholy, Identification by Negation, Image (type)

Naranjo also quotes Scheider on melancholy:

Naranjo CN said:
Also Schneider notices a tendency to vanity among the melancholic.

“Comparing themselves with those who live happily and knowing the simplicity characteristic of such people leads them to consider suffering *something noble and to regard themselves rather in an aristocratic manner*. Others see suffering as a *merit*, which together with their tendency to reflect and ponder bitterness of earthly life and the deep need for help, leads them to seek a philosophical or religious refuge.” He notes too “an esthetic preoccupation among the melancholic which may be manifest in their way of dressing and living and can even lead to presumptuousness.” (...)

“At bottom he refuses life and still surrounds it by a sort of unrequited love. Frequently, too, we see him develop a tendency toward vanity, a comparison with those who are contented and happy, the awareness of simplicity, even of the excessive simplicity that often characterize these brings the sufferers to deem suffering as something noble and themselves as aristocratic … Others see in suffering a merit which is no different from their tendency to reflect and to brood … Not rarely one finds that in the environment and way of living there is an aesthetic preoccupation that can convey arrogance and dissimulates an inner despondency. Other depressives are rather in a bad mood, are cold and selfish, grumbling and embittered, irritable and critical, cruel and ill intentioned. They are pessimists in the face of everything and also in the face of their own they almost cheer up when they meet new failures. Neither do they desire anything good for others.”
http://personalitycafe.com/type-4-forum-individualist/148114-naranjos-character-neurosis-ennea-type-4-a.html
Reference to dandyism, Baudelaire (by Naranjo typed as sx4)

Dandy said:
Charles Baudelaire, in the later, "metaphysical" phase of dandyism defined the dandy as one who elevates æsthetics to a living religion, that the dandy's mere existence reproaches the responsible citizen of the middle class: "Dandyism in certain respects comes close to spirituality and to stoicism" and "These beings have no other status, but that of cultivating the idea of beauty in their own persons, of satisfying their passions, of feeling and thinking .... *Dandyism is a form of Romanticism*. Contrary to what many thoughtless people seem to believe, dandyism is not even an excessive delight in clothes and material elegance. For the perfect dandy, these things are no more than the symbol of the aristocratic superiority of mind."
Dandy said:
The dandy creates his own unity by aesthetic means. But it is an aesthetic of negation. "To live and die before a mirror": that according to Baudelaire, was the dandy's slogan. It is indeed a coherent slogan. The dandy is, by occupation, always in opposition. He can only exist by defiance. Up to now, man derived his coherence from the Creator. But from the moment that he consecrates his rupture from Him, he finds himself delivered over to the fleeting moment, to the passing days, and to wasted sensibility. Therefore he must take himself in hand. The dandy rallies his forces and creates a unity for himself by the very violence of his refusal. Profligate, like all people without a rule of life, he is only coherent as an actor. But an actor implies a public; the dandy can only play a part by setting himself up in opposition. He can only be sure of his own existence by finding it in the expression of others' faces. Other people are his mirror. A mirror that quickly becomes clouded, it's true, since human capacity for attention is limited. It must be ceaselessly stimulated, spurred on by provocation. The dandy, therefore, is always compelled to astonish. Singularity is his vocation, excess his way to perfection. Perpetually incomplete, always on the fringe of things, he compels others to create him, while denying their values. He plays at life because he is unable to live it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dandy
Ichazo said:
Passion
Type 4 envy notices how others have what I don't because others are more capable than I am. It's a comparison of the positive in others with the negative in the self.

Fixation
Type 4 melancholy surrounds a lack of emotional fulfillment that longs for what isn't and disparages what is.

Trap
Type 4 authenticity is derived from being true to an inner emotional reality that distinguishes oneself from others.

Holy Idea
The type 4 trap seeks an authentic sense of self by cultivating an emotional uniqueness that stands apart from others. Holy origin points to a more inherent unfolding of one's own uniqueness in the universe without having to distinguish oneself by cultivating that uniqueness.
 

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I think that the problem here is mostly due to perception and self perception rather than how things genuinely are. I was having this exact discussion on facebook except it was more about which types tend to have a superiority or inferiority complex but the real answer is that there's no answer. It's all in the way types are seen and perceived but that kind of perception is mostly born out of the fact that different types see things in different ways and sometimes miscommunication and negative experiences can taint the way things genuinely are. It's unavoidable, really. Even more so in between self centered types (which doesn't equate to egotistical but rather focused on the self).

For example, I tend to err on the masochistic side of 4s with loony flashes of sadism, usually either as a way to translate anger mentally or fueled by deep bitter feelings, high pain and a need for vindication. There's sexual fours who are a lot more confident and self actualized. There's some who are far weaker than I've ever been since birth. It's all subjective, how does one even define prideful or pretentious? I even typed as a 7 or an 8 when I was feeling genuinely self motivated and strong, despite being constantly aware of my underlying issues, my real self image and what truly made me hurt. But being sx/sp is honestly the pull it's been described. I often like myself on my own vision and personal perception yet I absolute dread myself when it comes to another person's point of view. I never feel like I'm seen the way I truly am and when I met the rare people who can see right through me, I tend to go nuts. Genuinely nuts. I pull them close too strongly while also becoming a lot colder and overall unpredictable and insecure. My own damaged self image and fear of rejection are already telling me in advance to step off the ladder yet there's some twisted pride in needing that kind of confirmation. They make me feel special but in order not to feel like it's just a delusion I have to keep on having confirmation of that until I'm out of the danger zone. Problem is I can't vocalize it at all which becomes sort of comical, overdoing or underdoing.

I hear people telling me how strong I am for enduring basic things and I keep getting baffled at that. I can understand why it means a lot to them but to me it's like the bare minimum? People think I'm actually a lot more 'expressly something' than I actually am. I'm not weak at all but I don't feel strong either. Depending on the day you can find me in either direction or running back and forth. I don't feel like I'm either a good or bad person but again, same as previously. It's all subjective. My self esteem is the most fucked up thing. I can get pretentious. Oh so pretentious! I'm the only one who gets a person, who gets art or music, who even gets the true essence of a sandwich if I'm being particularly snobby. But then? I mean, how can I even define what the true essence of something is? It's just my feelings and they might be wrong although I know what I like and what I express. I know some issues and I can always dance through darkness and vulnerabilities. My own, other people's, my characters, doesn't matter. People are beautiful when openly fragile because they're honest and there's no barriers anymore. Not for a moment. But see, pretentiousness fades. Pretentiousness can be unfounded. Pride crashes and burns and flies again. Are 4s inherently worse than other types? No, not really. I don't even think this is the hardest type to understand (although one of the hardest to relate to from outsiders, as much as people want to be core 4s) <-- yes this is elitism. Elitist is my middle name. (It's actually not.) But any type can be good, bad, hard, easy, enjoyable or a nutcase. So what about envy that sets us to be so flippant? Not sure myself. It's pretty disgusting but it's also the skeleton behind a 4's most intense moments of creativity and raw energy. Raw lust.

Are 4s more self victimizing than other types? Hell no. But we're constantly in touch with our vulnerabilities, the missing parts, the cracks in our ceramic doll skin. Those cracks are haunting. No matter how finely dressed, the mind always goes back in there and keeps poking at those proofs of brokenness. Sometimes it tries to create more or crack them open, that's a thing that happens too. It's genuinely a matter of wearing my insecurities on the sleeve in a way that seems borderline cocky, arrogant, evil, destructive. To protect my weakness, I end up showing people the ugliest sides of me in advance, maybe even in a half joking way which might make it seem I'm decorating it while if anything I'm genuinely downplaying my flaws and softening the blow. Or at times i can just conceal everything. With most people I do. I seem just hostile, detached and painfully shy but I'm singlehandedly trying to prevent a massive ogre load of feelings, insecurities and nasty vulnerabilities from pouring out. I'm being a human dam. So honestly, I think it's all a matter of perception. Fours might seem haughty but the tortured victim in the basement of my mind ends up being my own self. Competition and contempt are strong but never stronger than the way I keep picking at my own flaws and mistakes. This is why wounds will never cauterize, only multiply. I'm proud of them all, I'll give you that. Pretentious? Most likely. But the things I'm pretentious about feel mundane to me.
 
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