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Discussion Starter #1
Well I decided to create a Personality Cafe account after searching the net for information to help me deal with an ESTP "friend." Our relationship has always been shaky and somewhat tumultous. We argue/fight around every two weeks though we always end up talking to each other in the end. I certainly don't know why. Sometimes her rudeness/apathy hurts my feelings and I tend to lash out at her. I admit that to her and I've asked her if she minded. To my face, she says she really doesn't care. But then, another friend of ours tells me, when this "friend" isn't around, that she said that sometimes I'm really mean to her and it hurts her feelings, and that it's not what I say but what I do that hurts her feelings... Though to me, it seems like she never really gets hurt.
 

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I think that answers your question. obviously actions speak louder than words. you're doing something that's hurting her and you need to ask what. then you need to try to fix it. Simple. And maybe you keep fighting because neither of you are willing to work to fix it.
 

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The way you wrote your post have hurt not only my feelings, but my head and eyes already uhh how did you managed to put so much chaos in one post...

And as above, no idea what the question really is. But I think i get the point.

Look: ESTP put value in actions not in words. So if you ie. ignore her / 'betray' in some way (and you may be suprised how many things ESTP see as betrayal at least to some point) she will be ten times more angry, than if you told her she's total Btch who can't do a thing right etc.
If she is rude to you it's prolly not about you, be sure of that. Either she has bad mood, maybe have hard time to deal with something or what have you. So don't take it personal. And believe me if she's angry and it's about you, you WILL know ;) But if you want to know what bothers her, just ask directly it's the best way. If she wan't she will share.

And if you wonder why you argue / get up and so on, answer is simple. ESTP will either forgive & forget quickly or hold a grudge to the grave (only in really serious matters).

Cheers
 
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The way you wrote your post have hurt not only my feelings, but my head and eyes already uhh how did you managed to put so much chaos in one post...

And as above, no idea what the question really is. But I think i get the point.

Look: ESTP put value in actions not in words. So if you ie. ignore her / 'betray' in some way (and you may be suprised how many things ESTP see as betrayal at least to some point) she will be ten times more angry, than if you told her she's total Btch who can't do a thing right etc.
If she is rude to you it's prolly not about you, be sure of that. Either she has bad mood, maybe have hard time to deal with something or what have you. So don't take it personal. And believe me if she's angry and it's about you, you WILL know ;) But if you want to know what bothers her, just ask directly it's the best way. If she wan't she will share.

And if you wonder why you argue / get up and so on, answer is simple. ESTP will either forgive & forget quickly or hold a grudge to the grave (only in really serious matters).

Cheers
The question is "What should I do?" Sorry for not clarifying... What do you mean? Ahh, what are things you consider betrayal as an ESTP? Ahh, I see. And she's rude in an aloof way. Like for example, I'm talking to her about my life and she usually replies with "I don't care," which really irritates me because I'm not the same way towards her. What would be a matter so serious as to cause an ESTP to hold a grudge to the grave? And thank you for answering the question!
 

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Discussion Starter #6

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Discussion Starter #7
Ignore the "What does she most likely feel towards this relationship?"
What hurts an ESTP's feelings? ESTPs seem quite tough-skinned so...?
Sorry, I can't edit the post.
 

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And she's rude in an aloof way. Like for example, I'm talking to her about my life and she usually replies with "I don't care," which really irritates me because I'm not the same way towards her.
Are you just rambling about stuff? I usually don't care about stuff people tell me unless it's something like, "Dude, I just got hired at Disney and I can get you in for free." Telling me about how you just built your own computer desk or whatever isn't really something I care about.

I have an ISFJ buddy who always talks to me about all this stuff in his life...his work life, his home life, etc...I honestly don't care. There's really nothing I can do about any of that and most of it is in the past anyways. It doesn't matter. Now if he dropped a comment or 2 about some frustrations or whatever that's fine, but no need to sit there and have a convo about it.

What would be a matter so serious as to cause an ESTP to hold a grudge to the grave?
Uhh...can't say that's ever happened and I doubt it ever will. Usually I can't stay pissed at someone for more than an hour or so.

There were only a few times I was pissed at someone for longer than that and it only lasted a max of maybe 2 days...and that was for some serious stuff.
 

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Are you just rambling about stuff? I usually don't care about stuff people tell me unless it's something like, "Dude, I just got hired at Disney and I can get you in for free." Telling me about how you just built your own computer desk or whatever isn't really something I care about.

I have an ISFJ buddy who always talks to me about all this stuff in his life...his work life, his home life, etc...I honestly don't care. There's really nothing I can do about any of that and most of it is in the past anyways. It doesn't matter. Now if he dropped a comment or 2 about some frustrations or whatever that's fine, but no need to sit there and have a convo about it.

Uhh...can't say that's ever happened and I doubt it ever will. Usually I can't stay pissed at someone for more than an hour or so.

There were only a few times I was pissed at someone for longer than that and it only lasted a max of maybe 2 days...and that was for some serious stuff.
Hmm. I'm quite sure I do...and yes, I do that, talk about EVERYTHING in my life but not with her very often. Sometimes she talks about her life and things like that, while it bores me, I don't say so and I pretend I'm interested/let her talk. And applying to your ISFJ buddy, what do you like about that buddy? Dislike? You don't have to answer if you mind the questions. Ahh okay, like what, if you don't mind me asking?
 

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And applying to your ISFJ buddy, what do you like about that buddy?
Idk, I get along with who I get along with...don't really think about it.

He's a buzz kill. Too serious and always comes out with some crap about responsibility or whatever....totally ruins my fun. He's pretty rigid too and not very spontaneous. I actually stopped hanging out with him recently because of how draining it is to be around him.

Ahh okay, like what, if you don't mind me asking?
Ehhh...it's been awhile. I don't really remember what exactly caused me to be that mad...but I do remember it happening. I'm thinking one time was because of my closest friend betraying me...don't remember exactly what happened, but it took 2-3 days for me to actually be open to talking to him again...that was probably the worst it's ever been.
 

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Idk, I get along with who I get along with...don't really think about it.

He's a buzz kill. Too serious and always comes out with some crap about responsibility or whatever....totally ruins my fun. He's pretty rigid too and not very spontaneous. I actually stopped hanging out with him recently because of how draining it is to be around him.

Ehhh...it's been awhile. I don't really remember what exactly caused me to be that mad...but I do remember it happening. I'm thinking one time was because of my closest friend betraying me...don't remember exactly what happened, but it took 2-3 days for me to actually be open to talking to him again...that was probably the worst it's ever been.
Oh okay. And ehh, I'm sure I'm not a buzzkill, not trying to sound conceited or anything, but most people say I'm very spontaneous and random...and I'm not too serious though I can go from joking to serious fast. Ahh okay. What would you says hurts your feelings as an ESTP?
 

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My ISFJ gf of twelve months and counting is pretty random and spontaneous when she's thinking to herself and all. I just watch her go through her thoughts and look at her with confusion and I'm noticing that shse's having a fun time thinking to herself too, so it doesn't bother me.
But I do feel like i'm left out. lol, weird. I feel left out with her and her thoughts sometimes. I would have to ask her twice to see whats up.

What I dislike about her personality is how i think I dont get enough attention from her. But, when I do tell her about how I feel, she responds that I'm over-thinking the "issue" and she explains to me that she does give me attention and whatnot.

Whenever I have an issue with her, I notice that I tend to over think and over exaggerate the little problem i am having. I blow it out of perportion and I start ignoring her and she starts ignoring and we get into this stupid cycle... ugh. When I think about it, it's pretty useless to fight and make it to a bigger problem. Its not even worth it.

When we get into a 'fight' or an argument, i'm open to what she has to say and I listen. She doesn't like to be wrong and hates apologizing to me for some reason, which is why she thinks before she does anything. Me on the other hand, I'm always saying what is on my mind and I don't really think when I'm speaking. I'm also quick to say sorry and to move on.

I get jealous when she goes out with her guy friends though. We've dealt with this issue about me but I'm slowly, very slowly accepting that she has male friends. Lol. Oh and I also said that I feel left out. Because of her not telling me things, I kinda get irritated about that too.

Hm, she makes fun of me about how I think I can make anything and do everything. Its kinda irritating but I'm okay with it. I want to be good at everything but I honestly am not that good at everything. lol I'm learning the hard way.

but to answer your question, "what hurts me'......Hmmmmm, I guess not being acknowledged.
 

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I don't know about a female ESTP and a female ISFJ though or a male estp and male isfj though.
Their interaction might be different. i'm not sure though. we may need an expert.
 

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One of my best friends is an isfj. We get along great. growing up I was super insensitive and we had a falling out. It took a little time for me to understand where she was coming from. And I had to learn to fluff up things and pretend I cared just because it's polite.

If she responds with I don't care, first understand that if she's a thinker, specifically estp, she won't care unless she can use the information, you get to the point fast, or you tell the story in exciting detail. I'd shoot for the get to the point option because then if she's interested, she'll ask for more details. Second, tell her it hurts your feelings. But really, you have to know that fluff talk, girly time isn't really ideal. And either way, you can't force her to care about something she doesn't. and she won't hesitate to tell you. Don't take it personally.
 
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My ISFJ gf of twelve months and counting is pretty random and spontaneous when she's thinking to herself and all. I just watch her go through her thoughts and look at her with confusion and I'm noticing that shse's having a fun time thinking to herself too, so it doesn't bother me.
But I do feel like i'm left out. lol, weird. I feel left out with her and her thoughts sometimes. I would have to ask her twice to see whats up.

What I dislike about her personality is how i think I dont get enough attention from her. But, when I do tell her about how I feel, she responds that I'm over-thinking the "issue" and she explains to me that she does give me attention and whatnot.

Whenever I have an issue with her, I notice that I tend to over think and over exaggerate the little problem i am having. I blow it out of perportion and I start ignoring her and she starts ignoring and we get into this stupid cycle... ugh. When I think about it, it's pretty useless to fight and make it to a bigger problem. Its not even worth it.

When we get into a 'fight' or an argument, i'm open to what she has to say and I listen. She doesn't like to be wrong and hates apologizing to me for some reason, which is why she thinks before she does anything. Me on the other hand, I'm always saying what is on my mind and I don't really think when I'm speaking. I'm also quick to say sorry and to move on.

I get jealous when she goes out with her guy friends though. We've dealt with this issue about me but I'm slowly, very slowly accepting that she has male friends. Lol. Oh and I also said that I feel left out. Because of her not telling me things, I kinda get irritated about that too.

Hm, she makes fun of me about how I think I can make anything and do everything. Its kinda irritating but I'm okay with it. I want to be good at everything but I honestly am not that good at everything. lol I'm learning the hard way.

but to answer your question, "what hurts me'......Hmmmmm, I guess not being acknowledged.

Ahh, I do that. Your relationship with your girlfriend seems very similar to mine and this friend's relationship. Though I don't think this friend really cares if I give her attention or not though this day when I was full-out ignoring her and everyone else(having a quiet, calm day), she seemed somewhat surprised and even slightly worried. I overheard her talking with another peer about how I was unusually quiet.

I usually apologize to her though and she's always, "It's alright," or "I forgive you," would you say ESTPs forgive easily? She's never, ever said sorry to me though...

She never really says what's on her mind nor did she ever tell me I hurt her feelings. She never shows emotions like that with me except mild anger/annoyance.

Ohh, I do that too...sometimes, because she doesn't seem to care about my life when I'm talking to her about it, she doesn't deserve to know about the interesting or actual problems(because I complain about EVERYTHING, though it doesn't mean anything, usually) in my eyes.

What do you mean by "makes fun of me,"?

Ahh okay, I do that with her regularly...
 

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Discussion Starter #16
One of my best friends is an isfj. We get along great. growing up I was super insensitive and we had a falling out. It took a little time for me to understand where she was coming from. And I had to learn to fluff up things and pretend I cared just because it's polite.

If she responds with I don't care, first understand that if she's a thinker, specifically estp, she won't care unless she can use the information, you get to the point fast, or you tell the story in exciting detail. I'd shoot for the get to the point option because then if she's interested, she'll ask for more details. Second, tell her it hurts your feelings. But really, you have to know that fluff talk, girly time isn't really ideal. And either way, you can't force her to care about something she doesn't. and she won't hesitate to tell you. Don't take it personally.
Ahh, I see. What exactly was your falling out about? Yeah, that's what I want this friend to do too, though I think, just maybe, I might like her all genuine and not pretending or fluffing up, not trying to be mean about you or anything.

Ahh okay. I understand that, how do you think I can do that, "get to the point fast, or tell the story in exciting detail,"? I'm afraid if I tell her that, she'll think I'm oversensitive...and I really don't talk about my feelings with her because she's a thinker. What exactly would you consider fluff talk and girly time? I'll TRY not to take it personally. Thanks.
 

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just because she's a thinker doesn't mean she's incapable of understanding feelings. and if she is, then you have a bigger problem. just tell her how you would tell anyone else. "it hurts my feelings when...". and when telling things about your life, make sure she knows about the situation already. i get bored when someone hasn't updated me on everything or just starts to tell me something about someone i don't know. (like my esfj sister "so kristen is dating this guy kevin and he's the biggest douche bag. can you believe she would do something like that?" um....who the fuck is kristen? i don't even know what she would do in the first place.) i want to know details. who, what are they like, what did they do, what your reaction is, etc.

our falling out was about how i was being bitchy and spending time with newer friends and she didn't understand why i wasn't around her as much. i later apologized and told her i was projecting my feelings about my dad onto her. if you like her genuine then you shouldn't be complaining about how her "i don't care"s hurt your feelings. because if she says she doesn't care, she genuinly doesn't care. she'll say it like it is. i just know my best friend doesn't like when i say things exactly off the top of my brain. she wants some cushioning. and i'll happily provide that to her.

it's the same with my infj friend who wants me to be nicer. where as my enfp friend says "tell me what you think exactly". you just have to know how to communicate and ask "do you want me to tell you what i think or do you want me to be more sensitive? because with me, i wish you would be more sensitive. sometimes how you say things hurts my feelings."
 
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Ahh, I do that. Your relationship with your girlfriend seems very similar to mine and this friend's relationship. Though I don't think this friend really cares if I give her attention or not though this day when I was full-out ignoring her and everyone else(having a quiet, calm day), she seemed somewhat surprised and even slightly worried. I overheard her talking with another peer about how I was unusually quiet.

I usually apologize to her though and she's always, "It's alright," or "I forgive you," would you say ESTPs forgive easily? She's never, ever said sorry to me though...

She never really says what's on her mind nor did she ever tell me I hurt her feelings. She never shows emotions like that with me except mild anger/annoyance.

Ohh, I do that too...sometimes, because she doesn't seem to care about my life when I'm talking to her about it, she doesn't deserve to know about the interesting or actual problems(because I complain about EVERYTHING, though it doesn't mean anything, usually) in my eyes.

What do you mean by "makes fun of me,"?

Ahh okay, I do that with her regularly...

sorry i'm responding to this one also. like we've all mentioned before, it's what you're doing.

my mom (esfj) bought me a cake for my birthday this year and i asked her not to. she said "it's your birthday though. so i got it." and i told her it's not about the cake. it's the fact that she didn't listen to me again and just ignored what i asked. then she came up with "well i thought that means you want a cake." and i said "if i wanted a cake i would've said i want a cake." obviously there is a deeper problem. and that is lack of mutual respect and trust between us. you need to figure out what the real problem is and work on that.

she's not telling you stuff or how she feels because 1. she doesn't know how you will react 2. we have a problem talking and confronting point blank with friends. it's different with family because they'll always be family. with friends, i don't know how the hell they'll react exactly. they could tell me i'm an idiot and to piss off. or we could get in a fight in which i don't really want to deal with. and unless i know them EXTREMELY well, it's super rare that we would fight anyway. so the best option is to avoid. and then bitch about it to other people.

confront her kindly and ask what the problem is and why she feels she can't come talk to you when you bother her. okay now i'm done.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
sorry i'm responding to this one also. like we've all mentioned before, it's what you're doing.

my mom (esfj) bought me a cake for my birthday this year and i asked her not to. she said "it's your birthday though. so i got it." and i told her it's not about the cake. it's the fact that she didn't listen to me again and just ignored what i asked. then she came up with "well i thought that means you want a cake." and i said "if i wanted a cake i would've said i want a cake." obviously there is a deeper problem. and that is lack of mutual respect and trust between us. you need to figure out what the real problem is and work on that.

she's not telling you stuff or how she feels because 1. she doesn't know how you will react 2. we have a problem talking and confronting point blank with friends. it's different with family because they'll always be family. with friends, i don't know how the hell they'll react exactly. they could tell me i'm an idiot and to piss off. or we could get in a fight in which i don't really want to deal with. and unless i know them EXTREMELY well, it's super rare that we would fight anyway. so the best option is to avoid. and then bitch about it to other people.

confront her kindly and ask what the problem is and why she feels she can't come talk to you when you bother her. okay now i'm done.
Ahh, I know I would have probably done the same thing because it would seem nice to give you a pleasant surprise, and I know if someone asked me I wanted a cake, and I said no, but that person still gets me a cake, I'd be pleasantly surprised and not at all irritated. If I asked someone if he/she wanted a cake, and he/she said no, I would most likely still get them a cake, and if he/she wasn't delighted by me getting he/she a cake, I would be somewhat hurt because I was trying to be nice. What do you mean?

I'm quite sure she'd know how I'd react though, we've known each other for 3 years and we've talked nearly every day those 3 years and spend time with each other during special events. Ahh okay, I'll do that when we start fighting/arguing again. Now, we're quite fine as we seem to forget about our conflicts as soon as we start them.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
She was an asshole and I'm glad to say we're not friends any more although I do get along with a few ESTP acquaintances quite well. You guys are fun people who keep it real.
 
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