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Discussion Starter #1
I read somewhere that INTP’s are predisposed to having problems with authority, but I want to see just how far we go to rebel against those who try to control us.

My mother told me I always went against any sort of established rule whether it be by her, school, or in later years the law. I remember rebelling against her often, not out of lack of love but because there is something in my mind that causes me to. I don’t like feeling restricted. It got to the point that by my early teens she gave up on trying to discipline me. Instead she would talk to me and express why what I did/was doing was wrong in the hopes that I would realize it myself. In school I wasn’t too bad until high school years. I regularly got detentions for mouthing off to teachers, for talking during class, skipping, and doing things that were inappropriate. I eventually dropped out and did an online school program offered by the county edu system due to my anxiety so all of that ended. Recently I’ve just been having squabbles with the justice system. There have been a few times the past two years I could have avoided spending a few days in county had I been polite and obeyed the officers, but I see no reason why I should. As long as I get to say/do what I want when I want I am willing to turn the situation into one where I’m forced into cuffs. Plus I really don’t mind spending time in county, it’s an interesting experience. I get a place to stay, free food (not the best but not too bad), I get to meet low tier and professional criminals with interesting stories, and it gives me time to think. Recently I have also decided to stop going to court whenever I get my blue slip because it’s a load of shit. The last time I went I got kicked out and was given a two page essay to write for wearing a shirt that says bullshit on it. Was a fun argument with the judge but I’m not going to put up with that kind of crap. My friends think I’m an idiot for doing this stuff, I think they are idiots for not.

So how far do you guys take rebelling against authority?
 
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I am indifferent to authority. If I agree with the rules or can at least see why they're being enforced, I'll follow them. If I disagree with them or don't see their purpose, I won't follow them. It's not active rebellion by any means.

For example, my mum is very protective of me, as would I be of my 4'11" 17-year-old daughter to be fair. She wants me to call or text her essentially every time I arrive at a new destination. If I'm going to the cinema or something, she'll be like, "Text me when you get into town. Text me when you meet your friend. Text me when you're in the cinema. Text me when you're out. Text me when you're on your way home." I didn't understand why she needed this much information, so I never did text her. It turns out that she has a very personal reason for wanting to know where I am which extends beyond the role of "protective mother". Once I knew why she wanted me to text her so often, we managed to arrive at an agreeable compromise.

I think that not obeying rules for the sake of it is very irrational. I just don't see why people do it when it serves no purpose beyond getting them into some form of trouble. Rules generally aren't there just to piss you off, so why feel restricted by them?
 

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It sounds pompous, but I dont think most people in authority are qualified to have authority. Most of them (politicians, etc.) are selfish, greedy bastards and care less about the country and more about money. I hate it when people TELL me what to do. If someone asks me nicely, I have no problem helping out; I enjoy it! Its when someone says I HAVE to do something is when I have a problem.

I've never out-right "rebelled" against any authority, but I've always found it a fun challenge to find all the loopholes and I enjoy bending the rules a lot. I dont necessarily break big rules, but I'll come as close as I can just to piss people off (you know, those types of people who like rules haha). Jwalking etc, those rules are for people who dont look both ways if you know what I mean.
 

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As long the rules laid down by the authority makes logical/rational sense, I am fine with it. In fact, I think it is necessary unless you want some sort of anarchy at every level.

On the other hand, I have been suspended from school thrice and I have always been called by the principal. The only behavioral complaint was that, I had long hair and never wore my uniform properly. Other than that, it was always related to my academics.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Rules generally aren't there just to piss you off, so why feel restricted by them?
Teacher - "Sam, put your phone away and pay attention."

Sounds restrictive to me.
 

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It sounds pompous, but I dont think most people in authority are qualified to have authority. Most of them (politicians, etc.) are selfish, greedy bastards and care less about the country and more about money. I hate it when people TELL me what to do. If someone asks me nicely, I have no problem helping out; I enjoy it! Its when someone says I HAVE to do something is when I have a problem.
No one is really in any position to make rules for anyone else. Everyone has their own agenda and rules that they abide by.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I don't think that showing a degree of respect to teachers by not having your phone out during their lessons is restrictive at all.
How is having my phone out during class disrespectful? I does not detract from the lesson, and it should be my choice to listen or not.
 

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How is having my phone out during class disrespectful? I does not detract from the lesson, and it should be my choice to listen or not.
It's because they only want what's best for you -_- This is the reason why there are people in authority.

The thing is that no one knows what's best for you except yourself. At least, that's what I think.
 

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How is having my phone out during class disrespectful? I does not detract from the lesson, and it should be my choice to listen or not.
The teacher has put effort into that lesson. There is the argument that teachers are being paid to do that, but I don't think that's the point. My teachers, at least, genuinely want the best for their students if the students want the best for themselves. It is disrespectful to ignore what anyone's saying, particularly when it's for your benefit. I don't see why you shouldn't listen to what they're saying. If that's your view point, then why bother going to the lesson at all? That wouldn't detract from the lesson either.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The teacher has put effort into that lesson. There is the argument that teachers are being paid to do that, but I don't think that's the point.
Exactly, they get paid, and that is the point.

My teachers, at least, genuinely want the best for their students if the students want the best for themselves. It is disrespectful to ignore what anyone's saying, particularly when it's for your benefit. I don't see why you shouldn't listen to what they're saying.
I disagree. I think it is disrespectful to expect someone to listen to you if they don't want to regardless of the subjective reasoning behind it being beneficial. (I don't consider the curriculum of our education system to be beneficial. Too rigid, closed minded, too much inside the box thinking, and they set you down the path they feel is best for you education wise.)

If that's your view point, then why bother going to the lesson at all? That wouldn't detract from the lesson either.
When I would skip for a month at a time my mother would get in trouble. I had to be there for her sake.
 

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Exactly, they get paid, and that is the point.

I disagree. I think it is disrespectful to expect someone to listen to you if they don't want to regardless of the subjective reasoning behind it being beneficial. (I don't consider the curriculum of our education system to be beneficial. Too rigid, closed minded, too much inside the box thinking, and they set you down the path they feel is best for you education wise.)

When I would skip for a month at a time my mother would get in trouble. I had to be there for her sake.
I suppose it's up to you to decide to neglect your education, so I hope you enjoy your job at Wal-Mart :dry:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I suppose it's up to you to decide to neglect your education, so I hope you enjoy your job at Wal-Mart :dry:
This is exactly why I hate this country. A lot of indoctrination goes on in our schools and culture. "You need a formal education to be successful."

I am so disappoint.

I do not neglect my education but rather my credentials.
 

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This is exactly why I hate this country. A lot of mental conditioning goes on in our schools and culture. "You need a formal education to be successful."
It's not conditioning. It's reality. (You can fire names like Richard Branson and Alan Sugar at me all day if you want to. They are not the rule, but the exceptions.) I can't talk about the USA, because I don't live there, but economically things are tough in the UK. There's been a lot of people made redundant. Places can't afford to hire people any more. So, when there is an opening in the job market, who do you think they'll choose? The person with the degree or the high school drop-out?

But like I said, it's up to you. I just don't know why people don't do all they can to give themselves an advantage. This is the system whether you agree with it or not.
 

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It's not conditioning. It's reality. (You can fire names like Richard Branson and Alan Sugar at me all day if you want to. They are not the rule, but the exceptions.)
It's definitely conditioning. They never tell us in school that we can live alternative lifestyles. Personally, I would be more than happy to work on a farm in exchange for a bed and food. Happiness and spirituality is my success. Living as a vagabond for a while is also one of my goals in life.

I can't talk about the USA, because I don't live there, but economically things are tough in the UK. There's been a lot of people made redundant. Places can't afford to hire people any more. So, when there is an opening in the job market, who do you think they'll choose? The person with the degree or the high school drop-out?
My hate expands to the west in general. The person with the degree.

But like I said, it's up to you. I just don't know why people don't do all they can to give themselves an advantage. This is the system whether you agree with it or not.
Because your advantage is subjective. It would be an advantage for me if I wanted to partake in the system 100 percent, but I do not wish to. I can live on the low end in squalor with a smile on my face. My needs are cheap and do not require a degree.
 

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I've always had issues because I don't put much importance of certain things like paying parking tickets, tickets, renewing plates on time, getting city stickers. When I moved to Waukegan, IL things got worse for me, I parked my car in the parking lot of my apartment complex. But then I started getting overnight parking tickets there. But I refused to pay them because I can understand city stickers if I'm parking on the street but if I'm parking on my apartment complex then it just makes no sense to me.

But that is not as bad as what started September 28th 2008. I got into a small fender bender and the cops came. I was detained because they had a Javier Torrez (z not s) on file with a warrant since 1996. The guy had my same date of birth. I was taken to the station, finger prints taken, sent to FBI, $100 later they let me go. $500 later they allowed me to go somewhere to get my car back. $400 later for storage fee's I was able to get my car back.

The next day I go to change my drivers license from Wisconsin to Illinois because the cops also told me I needed to do that. Well, they said they couldn't because of a bad record from a Javier Torrez with the same date of birth. My Wisconsin licence had a different number, I've always lived in Wisconsin before this, I asked if I could bring my social, birth certificate, anything to prove that this was not me. They said I'd have to call this number.

I called the number, not their jurisdiction, call this other number, I call, not their problem, call this other number, I call, call this other number, finally I get to talking to the secretary of state's office, they recommend that I just say I'm this person and Pay the money. But I don't want to do that, this is not me.

I called a few other places, they all give me information about how I can clear THAT record, none of them seem to be able to understand that that is not MY record and therefore I don't care to clear THAT record. Finally the advice was that I'd have to pay to go to court and fight this. And I refuse to pay to go to court and fix this when it is THEY who are messed up. Just because they have a very similar name and the same date of birth does not mean I'm the same guy!!!

SO, today, in 2012 I'm still driving around with my Wisconsin drivers license. I know that if I get pulled over for any stupid thing I'll go right back to getting detained and I'll probably have to pay another $1000 to get my car out. I'm thinking I"ll probably just move to Wisconsin again.
 
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