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Obviously prude shaming is a serious issue in the modern dating world, and I for one whole heartedly disagree with the prude shaming extremists who go a bit overboard when they call certain women "blue balling bitches", which is obviously a highly derogatory phrase and completely unnecessary considering that women (and men too) should have the right to do what they want with their bodies.

At the same time though, not all guys are super desperate to be a girl's gay best friend, and in addition not all guys are super desperate to remain in the "getting to know one another phase" for several years prior to her finally being comfortable enough to get the ball rolling.

So with that said, I must ask a 100% serious question for straight guys: After how many dates is it okay to lose interest in a girl for not putting out?

And in the interest of equality, here's a 100% serious question for straight women as well: If you've gone on several dates with a guy and refused to put out afterwards, what would possess you to do something so cruel and inhumane?
 

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I’d state women get it worse with slut shaming by men and higher economical status females.
 

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As to the question: Any number of times is okay, as long as you're open and civil about it. If you're expecting to get laid on the first date, it might not be reasonable, but that's your own issue to deal with.

As to the larger issue: I don't think shaming someone for having different standards is ever okay. If you were expecting something to happen on the second date and want to break things off when that doesn't happen, that's fine. Telling the other person they're doing something wrong because you're not having sex is never okay though.

I think a lot of it has to do with communication and expectation management. People in the dating scene (especially younger ones) have been so frightened by all the stories and commotion around the topic of sexuality that they just assume things and forget to check with their date how they really feel about something like that. If the first date is going well it could be okay to talk about things like this. Openly, without pressure. Try to find out what the other party really finds normal and if your needs and interests in those fields overlap. It's really the whole point of dating in the first place.

Far too often people just assume everyone else has the same background and ideas that they have and take action because of that. that leads to hurting in both directions. It's hard to start these kinds of conversations, especially with someone you don't really know yet, but it's kind of necessary to have these conversations before the issues become relevant.

And shaming someone, for any reason. Is just wrong. It stems from insecurity and a need to force your own beliefs to be accepted as normal by trampling upon other's beliefs. That's not a way to behave in civilized society.
 

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If you've gone on several dates with a guy and refused to put out afterwards, what would possess you to do something so cruel and inhumane?
If I go out with a guy and he doesn't accept/initiate anything romantic/sexual after 3-4 dates, I doubt if it is worth keeping on. Personally I prefer to experience some sensations in the first date. I don't mean it to be hardcore but, I don't call it dating if we only hang out and talk and just do whatever someone does with their friends.
 

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As to the larger issue: I don't think shaming someone for having different standards is ever okay. If you were expecting something to happen on the second date and want to break things off when that doesn't happen, that's fine. Telling the other person they're doing something wrong because you're not having sex is never okay though.
I am sorry, but we wouldn't work out. It's not you, it's me, I don't enjoy sex with partners that have tiny penises.

My point: I don't think it's that easy to separate personal preference from shaming, even with the best of intentions, because chances are you are not that unique of a snowflake and there would be some consensus with other people on whether your preference is negative. Ugly wouldn't mean anything if we didn't have some shared ideas about beauty, slut wouldn't mean anything if other men didn't agree on a desire for exclusivity, and prude wouldn't mean anything if people didn't share some ideas about what waiting time they'd consider reasonable. The reason your personal preferences hold a strong potential to ignite shame is because they reflect society in general and your gender in particular, if you are a man breaking it off with a woman, you are doing so as part of her general category of her interactions and life experiences with men.



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Man I have to not troll for once. Lame.

So basically I don't think it's the number of dates but rather the quality of the dates however if we are talking about numbers I would say 5 dates max. This is of course we are talking on a 1 date per week basis with the standard talking via text, call or whatever in between. Like I mean the dates are planned not spur the moment and thought is put into them. Like we are meeting on X day to do x activity and I'm putting x amount of money to the side.

If like after talking and/or going on 3 dates (likely with me dropping my money) you aren't interested in doing the nasty unless given a specific reason during the talks then I personally would start the replacement process because you'd be wasting my time at that point. Date #4 would be a courtesy to see if you'd come around but if there are no signs of it happening that's officially when interest is lost. If there is a date #5 it would be do or die. Likely would already have a replacement ready and waiting.

I express it in communication early on but leave the ball in their court to see if they do anything with it. I'm not going to pressure them but see how they react/respond in real time like a test. If it seems like a one sided "relationship" early on it likely would only get worse from there so they'd be cut loose so someone else can have a shot at this awesomeness...if I were interested in dating again (which I'm not)...and not just because I'm married...because dating is a waste of time and/or resources and not worth the effort.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I’d state women get it worse with slut shaming by men and higher economical status females.
I'd also state that starving children in Africa have it pretty bad too. So with all due respect, do you have an actual point here or would you prefer to turn this thread into a contest over who has it worse as opposed to discussing the actual issue at hand?
there's nothing cruel or inhumane about not feeling up to having sex with someone you are just getting to know and have mild attraction for
Yeah I don't know where you grew up but I'm worried there might be a bit of a cultural difference here on top of the very obvious and ever persistent language barrier. In itself there's nothing wrong with choosing to avoid physical intimacy, but within the context of going on multiple dates with someone, after so much time there's an implicit expectation that it'll lead to something. It's very deceptive and misleading to not act in accordance with this standard, especially if the female wasn't open from the getgo that all they were looking for is a gay best friend. Again, maybe there's a different standard or expectation where you grew up and such deception might be 100% acceptable there, and I hope that getting all defensive about the topic isn't to suggest that you've readily engaged in such a sadistic practice.

If I go out with a guy and he doesn't accept/initiate anything romantic/sexual after 3-4 dates, I doubt if it is worth keeping on. Personally I prefer to experience some sensations in the first date. I don't mean it to be hardcore but, I don't call it dating if we only hang out and talk and just do whatever someone does with their friends.
I appreciate the honest reply, so to be clear the phrase "refusing to put out" was to suggest that a romantic/sexual component of the relationship was in fact initiated. If you've never refused such an advance after 3-4 dates then the question wouldn't apply to you.

I don't put out if I don't want to have sex with them.
Which is 100% fair and acceptable so long as you don't go on multiple dates with them. Nothing is forcing you to go out on date number 5; if you're not feeling it by that point then why is it so difficult to either stay home or look for a gay bff?
 

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And in the interest of equality, here's a 100% serious question for straight women as well: If you've gone on several dates with a guy and refused to put out afterwards, what would possess you to do something so cruel and inhumane?
his only seems "cruel/inhumane," wthin exclusivity. If he is worried about this (lack of regular coitus) -- then he may request something more serious / exclusive and/or seal the deal. No monogamous deal; no coitus.

The same applies via refusal to be inseminated/willfully impregnated outside of marital-deal making (re: no insurance/stability policies).

Although, the [upside] about this, is he is currently free to rendezvous with another woman without explanations / complications, which would be less (opportunistic) to do within exclusivity. If I were him, I would take the deal.
 

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Which is 100% fair and acceptable so long as you don't go on multiple dates with them. Nothing is forcing you to go out on date number 5; if you're not feeling it by that point then why is it so difficult to either stay home or look for a gay bff?
Trying to guilt someone into moving faster in a relationship than they want to is actually pretty inhumane.
 

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Which is 100% fair and acceptable so long as you don't go on multiple dates with them. Nothing is forcing you to go out on date number 5; if you're not feeling it by that point then why is it so difficult to either stay home or look for a gay bff?
Nothing stops me going on +10 dates with them, if I wish to. There's no promise it will ever proceed further than that. It takes way more than 5 meetings for me to decide if I want to have more than friendship with a person.
 

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Yeah I don't know where you grew up but I'm worried there might be a bit of a cultural difference here on top of the very obvious and ever persistent language barrier. In itself there's nothing wrong with choosing to avoid physical intimacy, but within the context of going on multiple dates with someone, after so much time there's an implicit expectation that it'll lead to something. It's very deceptive and misleading to not act in accordance with this standard, especially if the female wasn't open from the getgo that all they were looking for is a gay best friend. Again, maybe there's a different standard or expectation where you grew up and such deception might be 100% acceptable there, and I hope that getting all defensive about the topic isn't to suggest that you've readily engaged in such a sadistic practice.
How many dates and how long are you talking about?

I'm guessing these women do want to find someone who actually suits them so if they are going to several dates they are hoping you are the one and trying to see if it leads somewhere good for them, they are not trying to be deceptive. Perhaps you shouldn't be so ready to attribute this to "sadism" and "cruelty", it's likely not going to help you.

As for me I don't date cause I don't need to, but I can't have sex with a stranger I've been on just a few dates with, because I need to have emotional connection and care for them. I generally find dating complete strangers to be very bizarre and awkward cause basically both people are vetting each other consciously or not in a rather mechanical way.
 

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I am sorry, but we wouldn't work out. It's not you, it's me, I don't enjoy sex with partners that have tiny penises.
If that's a thing for someone then of course they shouldn't have sex with someone they don't feel comfortable having sex with. I know people that are turned off by shaved/unshaved pubic hair.
Of course, if you're worried your phrasing might be taken as an insult, maybe you should phrase it differently? I mean, it's not like you're contractually obliged to tell the whole truth about it to someone you're explicitly not entering a relationship with.

And finally: You're making the whole thing much more personal than I was thinking. I mean, there's a big difference between telling your date that you like to have sex with people with big penises (as in: before it's even directly relevant) and telling someone you're not going to have sex with them because of the size of their penis.
My whole point was that you can talk about stuff like this while you're still in a safe situation and nobody has anything to feel bad about yet. Just talking about expectations isn't insulting. Telling someone they're not living up to your expectations can be.
 

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Keep in mind women have much more at stake.

A guy can just walk away-long before a women even knows she’s oregnant. No matter how careful there is always the disk. So there is not a thing wrong with a woman who wants to make sure a guy is responsible and will stick around before taking that risk with him.
 

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It wouldn't be cruel and inhumane, he's free to fuck off at any time. Why give it up for some random guy who loses interest because he doesn't get sex within a few dates/days/weeks? There are numerous random guys willing to have sex with women they barely know. Many women can get sex by sending a text if they want it. What makes this guy any better than the others?
If you're not super hot, then you might need to show her other reasons why your worth fucking, which will take time and effort.
 

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I had this problem all through school and my teenage years. I was a pretty good looking boy and women loved my company. Its an INJF thing. Anyway,

I used to go on dates with women I liked, but back then I was far too shy to make that first kiss. I would walk them home and stand there like a complete idiot. I just could not take the initiative and kiss them.

So I never dated any woman for more than 4-6 dates until they decided not to make arrangements with me. In my 20’s some of these women were my friends and I asked them why they did not carry on dating me. They all said that it was because I didn't try to kiss them that they thought I was not interested in them.

Bummer being a shy teenager.
 

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I had this problem all through school and my teenage years. I was a pretty good looking boy and women loved my company. Its an INJF thing. Anyway,

I used to go on dates with women I liked, but back then I was far too shy to make that first kiss. I would walk them home and stand there like a complete idiot. I just could not take the initiative and kiss them.

So I never dated any woman for more than 4-6 dates until they decided not to make arrangements with me. In my 20’s some of these women were my friends and I asked them why they did not carry on dating me. They all said that it was because I didn't try to kiss them that they thought I was not interested in them.

Bummer being a shy teenager.
Heh. It’s funny because my husband is INFJ and I had to make the first move-sort of. He kissed me first, then backed off apologizing.
I grabbed him and kissed him back.

Thing is, it was no coincidence. It was olanned.
The game we were playing together had ended and I’d have no more excuse to see him anymore.
He is a great massues and worked on my neck often for migraines. I asked his roomate if I could stay the night.
He said it was fine and joked that maybe I could get him ( my now husband) to “ work on my neck.”

Little did he know that was exactly my plan and it worked better than I had imagined.
 
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