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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
"INFJs have uncanny insight into people and situations. They get "feelings" about things and intuitively understand them. As an extreme example, some INFJs report experiences of a psychic nature, such as getting strong feelings about there being a problem with a loved one, and discovering later that they were in a car accident. This is the sort of thing that other types may scorn and scoff at, and the INFJ themself does not really understand their intuition at a level which can be verbalized. "


Source : Portrait of an INFJ
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So is it true ?



Further. Anyone of you aware of Stargate Project.
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"The Stargate Project[1] was the umbrella code name of one of several sub-projects established by the U.S. Federal Government to investigate the reality, and potential military and domestic applications, of psychic phenomena, particularly "remote viewing": the purported ability to psychically "see" events, sites, or information from a great distance. "


"As with all intelligence information, intelligence gathered by remote viewing must be verified by other sources. Remote-viewing information could not stand alone. (According to Ray Hyman in the AIR report, if Ed May's[11] conclusions are correct remote viewers were right 20% of the time and wrong 80% of the time.)"

Source: Wikipedia
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For remote viewing even the 20% chances or being right is significant.

"Remote viewing (RV) is the ability to gather information about a distant or unseen target using paranormal means, in particular, extra-sensory perception (ESP) or sensing with mind." : Wikipedia.

Thoughts !
 

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"

For remote viewing even the 20% chances or being right is significant.

"Remote viewing (RV) is the ability to gather information about a distant or unseen target using paranormal means, in particular, extra-sensory perception (ESP) or sensing with mind." : Wikipedia.

Thoughts !
Thoughts?
Was the experiments analysis inclusive due to them not factoring in or separating the people who did get it right from those who didn't. Or was there just a few people involved? Another words did they weed out the fake 1-800 people from the 20%. Also what of the people in the experiment what validity did they have to partake in the experiment?

Also didn't the U.S.S.R start this first or the Nazis?

For those who don't know what the USSR was "Russia".
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thoughts?
Was the experiments analysis inclusive due to them not factoring in or separating the people who did get it right from those who didn't. Or was there just a few people involved? Another words did they weed out the fake 1-800 people from the 20%. Also what of the people in the experiment what validity did they have to partake in the experiment?
It said, 20% of the time these people were correct. And there were only 22 of them.
It was about remote viewing. If their prediction was true it was termed as successful.


Also didn't the U.S.S.R start this first or the Nazis?

For those who don't know what the USSR was "Russia".
No it was the project under the United States (US) military. Closed recently by 1995.
Dont know about USSR they might also be involved.
 

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It is per dominant Ni and inferior Se that I think INFJs can at times get a sensation that they can feel through or see through objects. When I go to sleep at night I had this sensation several times that I could see through my eyelids. My eyes were closed but my mind was viewing the room as it was. A bit creepy. I believe it is only an internal sensation not something that is occurring for real. I also had sensations of levitating from my body a few times and observing my room back when I was studying eastern religions and experimenting with a few exercises. There was big fat warning on the text though that those who are not prepared can harm themselves, but hey I was curious as usual. No harm came out of it just a few more creepy experiences to add to the collection.

Experiences like this can drive people to seek paranormal or psychic explanations. However there is no hard evidence for any of this occurring for real and not inside the mind. I for one do not believe that physical world with all its laws can be superseded and discarded somehow. The military projects I would not completely trust just because I had a friend who used to work for a professor who basically made up results to get funding from military because military has some deep pockets. He got money from them and channeled this into other more scientifically useful projects. They even sent representatives to visit the lab once.
 

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No it was the project under the United States (US) military. Closed recently by 1995.
Dont know about USSR they might also be involved.
Yeah USA jumped on the bandwagon we couldn't let everybody else use Psychics and not us. Hitler was a very disturbed man in his hunger for power................
 

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The military projects I would not completely trust just because I had a friend who used to work for a professor who basically made up results to get funding from military because military has some deep pockets. He got money from them and channeled this into other more scientifically useful projects. They even sent representatives to visit the lab once.
Correct me if I am wrong but this project was a military project not a project started by a professor who accidentally turns himself into a fly.
 

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I know you guys, except for Vel and Rarebird, are talking military, but...of course there is a but!

Explain to me how a person can go to a missing child's home, walk in their bedroom, pick up vibes that help police find a child? This a condensed hypothectical situation, but psychics (what they are termed whether right or wrong word) do help the police. Just very curious as to thoughts on this. Thanks.
 

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Correct me if I am wrong but this project was a military project not a project started by a professor who accidentally turns himself into a fly.
numbers can be changed and fake results can be reported anywhere by anyone - and who is going to check up on it? especially if people supervising don't have any background in what they are supervising and their minds can be easily powered up by those who know this - military is not somehow exempt from internal bs going on
 

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Thoughts on RV?

It's for real, and anyone can be trained in it. There's a site out there with training materials if you'd like to try it yourself. From a documentary I saw, it was evident that some people were more natural at it than others - having higher success rates with less training than others. It seemed like they were definitely intuition users.. whether extraverted or introverted I could not tell.

What's funny about the Russia/US thing is the Russians let on through disinformation that they were trying something like this (but they really weren't). Then the Americans decided to actually do it, in several organizations.. including the CIA and a couple branches of the armed forces. Not to be outdone, the Russians then started their own program.

Is it successful all the time? Definitely not. When it is, however, the results can be pretty impressive.

I tend to test very well on remote viewing tests, and much better than average on ESP tests. I'll see if I can find the links when I get home from work. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
It is per dominant Ni and inferior Se that I think INFJs can at times get a sensation that they can feel through or see through objects. When I go to sleep at night I had this sensation several times that I could see through my eyelids. My eyes were closed but my mind was viewing the room as it was. A bit creepy. I believe it is only an internal sensation not something that is occurring for real. I also had sensations of levitating from my body a few times and observing my room back when I was studying eastern religions and experimenting with a few exercises. There was big fat warning on the text though that those who are not prepared can harm themselves, but hey I was curious as usual. No harm came out of it just a few more creepy experiences to add to the collection.

Experiences like this can drive people to seek paranormal or psychic explanations. However there is no hard evidence for any of this occurring for real and not inside the mind. I for one do not believe that physical world with all its laws can be superseded and discarded somehow. The military projects I would not completely trust just because I had a friend who used to work for a professor who basically made up results to get funding from military because military has some deep pockets. He got money from them and channeled this into other more scientifically useful projects. They even sent representatives to visit the lab once.

wow , that was still amazing !

Edit : Uncomfortable to share some experiences.
 

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I have had some experiences like what vel has spoken of.

hearing friends thoughts.

it only happened twice with one friend, but other times I do get impressions from others, whihc basically are feelings that are instantly translated into a word or image, then to later talk about findingout it has some kind of connection...

I actaully have been very interestedin mirror nero-transmitters, which are chemicals in the brain that fire off in simoultaneous response to anothers brainwaves.
basically the scientific explination for empathy and at stronger more accurate points... psychic.
it's nothing "clear" though. ever.
it is always very vague, and always a total guess.

I hear INTJ's however have a much more accurate Ni in that theirs deals with the world and the progression of things, where INFJ's only deal with and in feelings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I dont know much about these experiences, but.

What i seem to get is , such experiences must have strong connection to iNtuition. So dominant iNtuitors must be those people who's more into these things.

INFJ's, INTJ's, ENFP's.

That's why i asked this here.
 

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numbers can be changed and fake results can be reported anywhere by anyone - and who is going to check up on it? especially if people supervising don't have any background in what they are supervising and their minds can be easily powered up by those who know this - military is not somehow exempt from internal bs going on
Another words "Trust no one" or nothing. Why would the military waste there time on something for so long especially during those times. Since there was 89,000 pages worth of files that was released it is fair to say that this a lot of fake results for 20 years of research. Not to mention CIA, FBI, and every other major organization was involved with these projects. I take it the central Intelligence agency is made up of people who don't know what they are doing.
 
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I have strong gut feelings about things, and often my gut reaction is correct.

I don't have trippy visions or dreams about the future though.

My explanation is I am an extream big picture thinker. I take information in and process it in large chunks, so I get a sense of the whole, and possible consiquences, without concousely seeing all the little details that build up to that impression individually.

Typical example:

I am in the kitchen at my grandmothers buttering bread to make sandwiches. My much younger cousines are playing in the house, running in and out of rooms. I am lost in my own thoughts, then I hear an odd sound, gut: move, bad. I drop the knife and swing round to grab my cousin, just before they hit the floor. They had tripped on the thresh hold into the room and had nearly fallen face first onto the hard flooring.

I just knew to react like that, and it weired me out at first. Then I realised even though I was daydreaming I still had part of my attention on the physical world, I was buttering the bred, and I was hearing the sounds of the childeren. I just wasn't activly processing or responding to my senses with my concouse mind. I spent most of my childhood playing in the house, and I knew the way the foor boards sounded and was used to the regular rhythem of the footfalls. I took it all in too quickly to work out exctly what was going on, but I knew how I needed to reacted based on the general impression I got.

It's a bit like seeing life through glasses that give you excellent periferal vision, but bad perception of fine details, unless I activly look for them, or turn that part of me on. This is because fine details are normally irelovant to the conclusion. Why go ABCDEFG ect, when you can go AZ?
 

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I have strong gut feelings about things, and often my gut reaction is correct.

I don't have trippy visions or dreams about the future though.

My explanation is I am an extream big picture thinker. I take information in and process it in large chunks, so I get a sense of the whole, and possible consiquences, without concousely seeing all the little details that build up to that impression individually.

Typical example:

I am in the kitchen at my grandmothers buttering bread to make sandwiches. My much younger cousines are playing in the house, running in and out of rooms. I am lost in my own thoughts, then I hear an odd sound, gut: move, bad. I drop the knife and swing round to grab my cousin, just before they hit the floor. They had tripped on the thresh hold into the room and had nearly fallen face first onto the hard flooring.

I just knew to react like that, and it weired me out at first. Then I realised even though I was daydreaming I still had part of my attention on the physical world, I was buttering the bred, and I was hearing the sounds of the childeren. I just wasn't activly processing or responding to my senses with my concouse mind. I spent most of my childhood playing in the house, and I knew the way the foor boards sounded and was used to the regular rhythem of the footfalls. I took it all in too quickly to work out exctly what was going on, but I knew how I needed to reacted based on the general impression I got.

It's a bit like seeing life through glasses that give you excellent periferal vision, but bad perception of fine details, unless I activly look for them, or turn that part of me on. This is because fine details are normally irelovant to the conclusion. Why go ABCDEFG ect, when you can go AZ?
That's something that sounds more familiar to me than some of the psychic stuff...

I've always thought of it as the intuitive part of the brain working faster than the conscious thinking, so that I would not even myself be fully aware of my perceptions and reactions until some split second later. It happens to me a lot when I or someone else would be dropping stuff and I react to catch it before it falls to the floor, and not until halfway through realise what I'm doing. That can be pretty scary if my intuition is off and I find myself trying to catch a falling knife... :unsure::crazy:
 
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Another words "Trust no one" or nothing. Why would the military waste there time on something for so long especially during those times. Since there was 89,000 pages worth of files that was released it is fair to say that this a lot of fake results for 20 years of research. Not to mention CIA, FBI, and every other major organization was involved with these projects. I take it the central Intelligence agency is made up of people who don't know what they are doing.
No, trust works documented by several independent research groups that have had as little interest in what outcome is as possible published in high impact journals.

You have to ask yourself why this kind of stuff isn't researched and studied currently and published in high impact science literature. If things like telepathy, telekenesis, ability to see through walls, read people's minds were true they would be heralded like greatest scientific discoveries out there, on par with antibiotics or vaccines. I mean this stuff can save many people's lives today right now. Why isn't is studied or used or heavily researched into by the scientific community, the people who actually got education and training in this? It is not because scientists are complete skeptics, some of them are religious and spiritual people, so cannot use this argument.

There are no independent confirmations of these studies and it was said that even though percentage was statistically significant subjects did report too much irrelevant information - i.e. typical approach used by psychics: report a lot of things then if something hits people will attribute it to you having supernatural abilities.

btw I am pretty sure that the guys from military who came to visit that professor have some sort of 1,000 page document going on about that work too - they do like to document things
 

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No, trust works documented by several independent research groups that have had as little interest in what outcome is as possible published in high impact journals.

You have to ask yourself why this kind of stuff isn't researched and studied currently and published in high impact science literature. If things like telepathy, telekenesis, ability to see through walls, read people's minds were true they would be heralded like greatest scientific discoveries out there, on par with antibiotics or vaccines. I mean this stuff can save many people's lives today right now. Why isn't is studied or used or heavily researched into by the scientific community, the people who actually got education and training in this? It is not because scientists are complete skeptics, some of them are religious and spiritual people, so cannot use this argument.

There are no independent confirmations of these studies and it was said that even though percentage was statistically significant subjects did report too much irrelevant information - i.e. typical approach used by psychics: report a lot of things then if something hits people will attribute it to you having supernatural abilities.

btw I am pretty sure that the guys from military who came to visit that professor have some sort of 1,000 page document going on about that work too - they do like to document things
These subjects are researched by many scientist so in that is studied currently. Scientist like's to know how something works not just that something does work. This is the modern day of science where they like that sort of stuff.
Also the professors wasn't visited by the military they where military ranked scientist types as well as the others
Okay I have to make this short I am done cooking, time to eat :)
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Some thing to add. I saw the stargate project on Discovery Channel, which covered everything scientifically.
its was amazing. It airs internationally so the channel would make sure that the things are not fake.

Also, scientists ask proof and logic which such projects rarely provide.

The accuracy rate was 20% which is not enough to be useful by humans. But amazing thing is considering remote viewing, even the single success is weird.
 

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These subjects are researched by many scientist so in that is studied currently. Scientist like's to know how something works not just that something does work. This is the modern day of science where they like that sort of stuff.
Also the professors wasn't visited by the military they where military ranked scientist types as well as the others
Okay I have to make this short I am done cooking, time to eat :)
happy eating :) - I'll just add a bit more to this meanwhile

In scientific community itself there is a lot of bs going on. Papers you publish are supposed to get peer reviewed, only people get lazy about it, prefer to spend time on their work, don't review them or don't understand material at hand. Some people publish just whatever to increase their publication count. Some people are just bad scientists - don't do control experiments, don't see multiple interpretation possible with their data, publish results that cannot be replicated. Sometimes they get caught at it and their papers get withdrawn. You try to follow experimental procedure of somebody, can't replicate it, write them an email or call them and say "I cannot follow your experimental procedure to replicate your results" - the person doesn't reply or starts to bs you. It is sad state of affairs but like in any workplace there is human element at work. Coupling the above with military which is basically lots of money + deadlines + focus on positive results + supervisors who don't really understand what you're doing, opens up a lot of windows for bad science to be get done.

I saw a documentary about Stargate project (also on Discovery Channel, same as whiteAshes) and did a bit of reading about it after as it captured my imagination too. My conclusion is too much grey areas for it to be solid good science. I really think much more benefit would have come out of it if they channeled this money into psychology and neurology departments at various universities and let them study basics of how mind mind works first rather than launching into "psychic phenomena".
 
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